COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

ShineOn7

ShineOn7 wrote: »

What is Ireland's breakdown of the different brands of it so far?

I'm hoping Pfizer get more out worldwide as it really looks to be the best to me

Based on 1% of EU deals:

Pfizer - 2m (up to 3m)
Oxford - 3m (up to 4m)
Moderna - 0.8m (up to 1.6m)
Curevac - 2.2m (up to 4m)
J & J - 2m (up to 4m)
Sanofi/GSK - 3m

Not all the deals are finalised and each then has to get cabinet approval for the money involved but that's just a formality.

The EU agreement is broadly based on population with some provision to be made for country demographics.

ACitizenErased

I see the Welsh are having issues with logistics - they've ruled out the Pfizer vaccine for nursing homes.

stephenjmcd

is_that_so wrote: »

Update on the likely EMA decision

"By Dec 29 at the latest but maybe before."

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1202/1181870-coronavirus-vaccine-ireland/

If it's positive the EU Commission will sign off on it within days and we're off!

Good to see the logistics already in action with storage units being commissioned in the next week.

ixoy

A little bit of more concrete detail here on RTE, including:

* nine ultra-low temperature containers have been obtained for storage
(not sure how many doses each container can old) and that " this equipment will be commissioned by the middle of next week."

MM claims it's their top priority but, even so, gives us a moment of humour when he says:

"He said he was sure the Department of Health and HSE had a lot of experience and expertise."

.. Assuming they're allowed exert that expertise and not stifled by red tape.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I see the Welsh are having issues with logistics - they've ruled out the Pfizer vaccine for nursing homes.

Surprised by that, stable at fridge temp for 5 days after thawing. Would have thought you could set up mobile teams, thaw a batch over a few days then a 3 day blitz going from home to home until you run out.

is_that_so

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Great stuff but try get your news from the Irish Times or elsewhere

By 6pm RTE will twist this into "Pfizer vaccine found to make all your limbs fall off and set you on fire"

It's not an opinion piece, it's a report on Dail proceedings, which you can watch, and feedback from a meeting. The IT version of it reports it almost exactly the same.

Gael23

ixoy wrote: »

A little bit of more concrete detail here on RTE, including:

* nine ultra-low temperature containers have been obtained for storage
(not sure how many doses each container can old) and that " this equipment will be commissioned by the middle of next week."

MM claims it's their top priority but, even so, gives us a moment of humour when he says:

"He said he was sure the Department of Health and HSE had a lot of experience and expertise."

.. Assuming they're allowed exert that expertise and not stifled by red tape.

That last sentence is the problem with the HSE

ShineOn7

is_that_so wrote: »

It's not an opinion piece, it's a report on Dail proceedings, which you can watch, and feedback from a meeting. The IT version of it reports it almost exactly the same.

We're still giving RTE clicks by linking to them though

And after what they've done to the mental health of Ireland they shouldn't get any web traffic from us

Frankly; I hope they're absolutely decimated financially in coming years

Pasteur.

It's gonna be embarrassing if we're behind the EU curve on rollout

hmmm

Micheál Martin said that Emer Cooke, head of EMA, briefed EU health ministers this morning, including Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly.

I know we can be a bit parochial, but between Mike Ryan, Adrian Hill and now Emer Cooke it's great to see so many Irish people involved at the highest levels during this pandemic.

Deenie78

Apologies if this is a really stupid question - would you be contagious for a time after getting the vaccine?
It just occurred to me as my Dad is 82 and has high risk health issues so would be one of the earlier recipients but my Mam is 74 and falls a few categories below (using the UK model as an example)?

Stark

The Pfizer and Moderna ones only code for the spike protein so no risk of shedding. No data on potential sterilising immunity though from what I can see so your Dad would still have to be careful not to pick up an infection and bring it home.

hmmm

Deenie78 wrote: »

Apologies if this is a really stupid question - would you be contagious for a time after getting the vaccine?
It just occurred to me as my Dad is 82 and has high risk health issues so would be one of the earlier recipients but my Mam is 74 and falls a few categories below (using the UK model as an example)?

It's a very good question. We don't know yet if the vaccines will help to prevent transmission of the virus.

There's two elements to consider - the virus (infection) and the disease which can occur due to the virus. The vaccines have been tested for whether they prevent the disease. The response to the virus is not yet known.

It's one of the reasons as I understand it that we are being told we should still wear masks & social distance even after getting the vaccine. Your Dad should avoid nightclubs after he is vaccinated until we know more

speckle

ShineOn7 wrote: »

An excellent summary from the BBC. All of this is worth a read https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55145696

And the main diagram from it

When it says not peer reviewd yet is that different than the regulatory process it is going through at the moment or after that when all the data is publicaly released to other scientists and medical professionals. Do we ever get to see the full data..it would help with transperancy and especially for the minority of people and their medical professionals, who have problems in the past of adverse reactions or non responding to vaccines or certain but not all autoimmune or myleting diseases?

ShineOn7

Deenie78 wrote: »

Apologies if this is a really stupid question - would you be contagious for a time after getting the vaccine?
It just occurred to me as my Dad is 82 and has high risk health issues so would be one of the earlier recipients but my Mam is 74 and falls a few categories below (using the UK model as an example)?

Good question

I can see a scenario where we get a little "Now you've been vaccinated; some facts" booklet after the first jab. The HSE seem to love their booklets

Mr Trampoline and that waste of space Paul Reid need an alertness "Here are the facts" campaign yesterday

The fake news and mis/dis-information on Facebook and Twitter this week has made me wonder about us as species in general tbh

lawrencesummers

Sconsey wrote: »

Let me try to answer the some....
What % of population coverage is being sought for taking the vaccine?
- Dunno, the figure of 70% is the one that always comes up in terms of herd immunity. I'd say we will be aiming for at least 70%

Are children (outside of those with existing conditions) expected or advised to take this vaccine?
- As of now the answer is no, this will likely change in the next 12 months.

How long does the vaccine work for?
- We don't know, we can only monitor the volounteers from the pahse 1, 2, and 3 trials to determine this. I have a feeling it will vary a little from person to person. But that is no reason to avoid getting vaccinated.

Can vaccines be mixed? If you get the Pfizer one this year can you get a different one next year if needs be?
- Don't know, I remember reading something on this a while back but can't remember. It's a good question though. My gut feeling would say you can take different vaccines but there certainly has not been any testing of this scenario.

Is a vaccine required for travel?
- Today no. In the future this may change. Probably some states will require it but not all.

Is the vaccine proven to be safe for people with existing condition such as food allergies or other medial conditions?
- The early trials are used to detect allergic reactions, does not look like any have been detected. Medical conditions probably depend on if the condition comprimises a persons immunity system. If your immune system is healthy then the vaccine should be safe (I am not a doctor).

Are manufacturing companies liable for any issues or has the talk of indemnity been guaranteed?
- Dunno

A lot of unknowns so.

Take the vaccine only to find possibly in 12 months that you are sick with Covid because effectively the next few years of taking this vaccine is an extension of a medical trial.

There is absolutely no information about medium or long term effects or info on medium or long term efficacy.

There has to be a scale, albeit a scale that people have to decide their own position on that balances on one end the risk of taking something which has an element of unknown effectiveness and unknown side effects versus the other side of the scale which is the actual risk to you of contracting the virus.

Where you stand on this scale is determined by your age and abundance or lack of medical issues such as obesity, hearth disease, asthma etc etc.

Personally I don’t see myself near the halfway point that would warrant taking the vaccine, but many of my family members would be.


I’m not any kind of anti-vax person, but I’m not sick enough, or in enough risk from Covid to sign up for what is essentially a medical trial treatment.

Hopefully, but I doubt it that people will be able to see the difference between the anti-vax autism cohort and people that just don’t need this vaccine.

lawrencesummers

Deenie78 wrote: »

Apologies if this is a really stupid question - would you be contagious for a time after getting the vaccine?
It just occurred to me as my Dad is 82 and has high risk health issues so would be one of the earlier recipients but my Mam is 74 and falls a few categories below (using the UK model as an example)?

Maybe they should wait and get it simultaneously.

Pasteur.

Why does everyone have to be injected?

Is there no simpler method?

speckle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Surprised by that, stable at fridge temp for 5 days after thawing. Would have thought you could set up mobile teams, thaw a batch over a few days then a 3 day blitz going from home to home until you run out.

What about the motorbikers in the gardai medical corp army and those who deliever bloods first responders etc. Have staff in place and they do the transport. Or refrigerated truckers.. just throwing ideas out for you all.

ShineOn7

Pasteur. wrote: »

Why does everyone have to be injected?

Is there no simpler method?

It's a vaccine. How do you want it implemented?

Gael23

So we are looking at social distancing which means no large events for at minimum another year?

hmmm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I’m not any kind of anti-vax person, but I’m not sick enough, or in enough risk from Covid to sign up for what is essentially a medical trial treatment.

You seem to be absolutely sure that you are not at risk from Covid, a disease we know very little about or what its long-term impacts are going to be, and yet you think a vaccine which uses a tiny part of the virus and is being tested and monitored is highly dangerous and to be avoided.

Stark

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It's a vaccine. How do you want it implemented?

"Do you have any of those vaccines that you snort off a credit card?"

Pasteur.

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It's a vaccine. How do you want it implemented?

How is the cartoon relevant?

Seems to be the goto for smartypants

lawrencesummers

hmmm wrote: »

You seem to be absolutely sure that you are not at risk from Covid, a disease we know very little about or what its long-term impacts are going to be, and yet you think a vaccine which uses a tiny part of the virus and is being tested and monitored is highly dangerous and to be avoided.

Best of luck with Covid, I'll certainly be taking a vaccine both for myself and for the wider community.

You can exaggerate the possible effects Of the disease in people and minimise your opinion of the possibilities of the vaccine, but the truth is you don’t know either.

hmmm

Pasteur. wrote: »

How is the cartoon relevant?

Seems to be the goto for smartypants

There was talks of one vaccine being tested as a nasal spray. I don't know where that is at.

ShineOn7

Pasteur. wrote: »

How is the cartoon relevant?

Seems to be the goto for smartypants

It's a bit of craic on a great day

To be fair, you asked if a vaccine should be injected in us on a vaccine thread

It's the most direct way to get anything into the human body

ShineOn7

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It's a vaccine. How do you want it implemented?

I heard they were considering fusing it with the sugar coating of Fruit Pastilles

polesheep

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It's a bit of craic on a great day



To be fair, you asked if a vaccine should be injected in us on a vaccine thread



It's the most direct way to get anything into the human body

Not all vaccines are injected into the body. There was nothing wrong with the question.

ShineOn7

Stark wrote: »

"Do you have any of those vaccines that you snort off a credit card?"

That'll be the campaign to get the anti-vaxers on board

hmmm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

but the truth is you don’t know either.

I know which risk is considerably smaller than the other. TBH I'm not interested in debating this with yourself.

Deenie78

Deenie78 wrote: »

Apologies if this is a really stupid question - would you be contagious for a time after getting the vaccine?
It just occurred to me as my Dad is 82 and has high risk health issues so would be one of the earlier recipients but my Mam is 74 and falls a few categories below (using the UK model as an example)?

Stark wrote: »

The Pfizer and Moderna ones only code for the spike protein so no risk of shedding. No data on potential sterilising immunity though from what I can see so your Dad would still have to be careful not to pick up an infection and bring it home.

hmmm wrote: »

It's a very good question. We don't know yet if the vaccines will help to prevent transmission of the virus.

There's two elements to consider - the virus (infection) and the disease which can occur due to the virus. The vaccines have been tested for whether they prevent the disease. The response to the virus is not yet known.

It's one of the reasons as I understand it that we are being told we should still wear masks & social distance even after getting the vaccine. Your Dad should avoid nightclubs after he is vaccinated until we know more

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Good question

I can see a scenario where we get a little "Now you've been vaccinated; some facts" booklet after the first jab. The HSE seem to love their booklets

Mr Trampoline and that waste of space Paul Reid need an alertness "Here are the facts" campaign yesterday

The fake news and mis/dis-information on Facebook and Twitter this week has made me wonder about us as species in general tbh

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Maybe they should wait and get it simultaneously.

Thanks for the feedback - glad it wasn't as stupid a question as I thought .. I'll try to keep my Dad away from the clubs!

Doc07

Sheep2020 wrote: »

How so?

No one got badly sick from Covid with Oxford one, someone got severly sick in Pfizer trial

One person in the Pfizer vaccine arm got a severe Covid infection (from Covid, not from the vaccine) while nine (9) got sever infection in the placebo arm of the trial

Goldengirl

brisan wrote: »

Croke Park ,The Aviva ,The RDS ,IKC exhibition centre ,3 Arena ,numerous other big venues around the country
The will and the ability to do has to be there though
Arm to co-ordinate and provide personnel and medical staff to do vaccinations
Drive in ,arm out the window get jabbed and drive out .
All paperwork done beforehand
It can be done for testing ,why not for vaccinations

Cannot be done like that .
What if someone faints or has a reaction to the jab ?
True reactions are rare but they do occur, most reactions are fainting.

The testing centres could be used but not drive thru .

Polar101

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It's a vaccine. How do you want it implemented?

What's with the smart comments? The last time I was part of a "mass vaccination", they gave me a sugar cube. I guess that's not an option this time.

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

There was talks of one vaccine being tested as a nasal spray. I don't know where that is at.

There's an animal study of a treatment in Australia, which has just been funded for a human trial.

https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2020/09/28/Novel-nasal-spray-reduces-viral-replication-by-up-to-96-according-to-COVID-19-challenge-study

Deeper Blue

The results from the vaccines were as good as anyone could've possibly hoped yet you've still got people moaning. Imagine if they'd only been 50-60% effective, I dread to think what the state of this thread would be.

lawrencesummers

hmmm wrote: »

I know which risk is considerably smaller than the other. TBH I'm not interested in debating this with yourself.

You can only know, or judge the level of risk it poses to yourself, not to me.

Pasteur.

ShineOn7 wrote: »

It's a bit of craic on a great day

To be fair, you asked if a vaccine should be injected in us on a vaccine thread

It's the most direct way to get anything into the human body

I'm 50% jesting on both posts

ShineOn7

El Sueño wrote: »

The results from the vaccines were as good as anyone could've possibly hoped yet you've still got people moaning. Imagine if they'd only been 50-60% effective, I dread to think what the state of this thread would be.

You're literally going to have people say "but it's only 95% effective"

One of the very few good things to come out of all this is it'll magnify the utterly dense people in our lives. And we can give them a wide berth going forward

Deeper Blue

ShineOn7 wrote: »

You're literally going to have people say "but it's only 95% effective"

One of the very few good things to come out of all this is it'll magnify the utterly dense people in our lives. And we can give them a wide berth going forward

Absolutely, the amount of loons that have crawled out of the woodwork the last few months is staggering.

lawrencesummers

El Sueño wrote: »

The results from the vaccines were as good as anyone could've possibly hoped yet you've still got people moaning. Imagine if they'd only been 50-60% effective, I dread to think what the state of this thread would be.

By moaning do you mean to say - people are questioning a hastily researched medical treatment that will be put into widespread use?

Is it really unreasonable for people to question the substances that are going to be injected into them?

lawrencesummers

El Sueño wrote: »

Absolutely, the amount of loons that have crawled out of the woodwork the last few months is staggering.

Is everybody who holds a different opinion to you a loon? Or just the ones that don’t think the same as you with regards medicine?

speckle

Polar101 wrote: »

What's with the smart comments? The last time I was part of a "mass vaccination", they gave me a sugar cube. I guess that's not an option this time.

Reminds me of TB medicine for kids... came in pouches like the hundreds and thousands topping for trifle which you mixed with milk to make a milkshake.

ShineOn7

El Sueño wrote: »

Absolutely, the amount of loons that have crawled out of the woodwork the last few months is staggering.

It made me shake my head a little in sadness seeing people I've known and liked for years do things like turn up at anti-mask protests and/or post utterly wrong and dangerous information on Facebook

These are people who I thought to be intelligent thinking before 2020

No more

LuckyLloyd

lawrencesummers wrote: »

A lot of unknowns so.

Take the vaccine only to find possibly in 12 months that you are sick with Covid because effectively the next few years of taking this vaccine is an extension of a medical trial.

There is absolutely no information about medium or long term effects or info on medium or long term efficacy.

There has to be a scale, albeit a scale that people have to decide their own position on that balances on one end the risk of taking something which has an element of unknown effectiveness and unknown side effects versus the other side of the scale which is the actual risk to you of contracting the virus.

Where you stand on this scale is determined by your age and abundance or lack of medical issues such as obesity, hearth disease, asthma etc etc.

Personally I don’t see myself near the halfway point that would warrant taking the vaccine, but many of my family members would be.


I’m not any kind of anti-vax person, but I’m not sick enough, or in enough risk from Covid to sign up for what is essentially a medical trial treatment.

Hopefully, but I doubt it that people will be able to see the difference between the anti-vax autism cohort and people that just don’t need this vaccine.

How do you determine your level of risk? We may be able to quantify a death rate but the risk of long covid or specific heart inflammation, etc is significantly greater than the death rate. Research is ongoing into that too but it would seem unwise to assume that there is no impact to any age or health cohort.

lolokeogh

El Sueño wrote: »

Absolutely, the amount of loons that have crawled out of the woodwork the last few months is staggering.

Ah so loons all because they dont swallow what you say?

seamie78

or what science says

funnydoggy

lolokeogh wrote: »

Ah so loons all because they dont swallow what you say?

I forgot El Sueño was in charge of development, oversight and review process of each vaccine. Doh.

Russman

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Hopefully, but I doubt it that people will be able to see the difference between the anti-vax autism cohort and people that just don’t need this vaccine.

The whole point of a vaccination programme is that eventually you try to get to herd immunity. So in that sense its in everyone's interest that as many people as possible get the vaccine. I protect you by my getting it and vice versa. If everyone, or even just the theoretically "non vulnerable" took the view that they don't need it as individuals, we'd never get to that point.