COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

VillageIdiot71

hotmail.com wrote: »

Interesting that Fauci in America said Britain rushed the vaccine approval and he then says the FDA is the best in the world.

Americans worse than the Brits for hyping their own country.

Even more interesting that he's now backtracking.

BBC are now report that he says the UK will do "really well" with the vaccine.

A certain Trumpian ring to that "really well".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177948

Pasteur.

VillageIdiot71 wrote: »

Even more interesting that he's now backtracking.

BBC are now report that he says the UK will do "really well" with the vaccine.

A certain Trumpian ring to that "really well".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177948

Realizes the error

jackboy

VillageIdiot71 wrote: »

Even more interesting that he's now backtracking.

BBC are now report that he says the UK will do "really well" with the vaccine.

A certain Trumpian ring to that "really well".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55177948

The UK approving first makes him look bad. Second in the US is seen as no better than last. He is concerned about his own image not about the ‘rushed’ approval.

Stark

NaFirinne wrote: »

Understanding how it works is key for me ....being my paranoid self when I see things like RNA - I automatically wonder is this similar to genetic engineering and I guess having to trust the companies that it's not going to alter my cells in a negative way, so while they can generate the antibodies it doesn't stop them from performing all there other functions or possibly make the body even more suseptible to the next virus that comes out.


So for me to get the reassurance I need to try an understand a more about the technology I guess and how it works.



They way you describe it there is sounds like a great technology to be utilised as long as it's not abused.

Why would it be abused? That sounds like extremely paranoid thinking tbh. Easier ways for someone to poison you if that's their goal.

timsey tiger

Pasteur. wrote: »

Realizes the error

faux pas, not an error in fact.

hmmm

Irish Stones wrote: »

How do we know that it isn't just a saline solution?

We can scan for the micro-chip afterwards.

ACitizenErased

Aaaand we have movement:
https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1334819782726742016?s=20

MerlinSouthDub

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Aaaand we have movement:
https://twitter.com/paulreiddublin/status/1334819782726742016?s=20

Those freezers don't look very big. I wonder how many vials they can hold? Anyway, great to see movement. Hopefully, we'll have authorisation from EMA sooner than planned, and we can start roll-out before Christmas!

MerlinSouthDub

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Those freezers don't look very big. I wonder how many vials they can hold? Anyway, great to see movement. Hopefully, we'll have authorisation from EMA sooner than planned, and we can start roll-out before Christmas!

Can hold 200,000 doses, so for our population and with regular supply should be fine. We should be aiming for 20,000 - 30,000 vaccines a day.

Hmmzis

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Those freezers don't look very big. I wonder how many vials they can hold? Anyway, great to see movement. Hopefully, we'll have authorisation from EMA sooner than planned, and we can start roll-out before Christmas!

They're only needed for the Pfizer/BNT vaccine. We're getting up to 3 million doses of it, the freezers can hold nearly more than half of that. I sincerely doubt there will be a need for all of them at any given point in time.

MerlinSouthDub

Deleted User wrote: »

Can hold 200,000 doses, so for our population and with regular supply should be fine. We should be aiming for 20,000 - 30,000 vaccines a day.

Great, thanks, plenty of room so!

timsey tiger

hmmm wrote: »

We can scan for the micro-chip afterwards.

rfid? If you are unlocking doors, without your passcard you are in trouble.

joseywhales

Maybe this is very naive but these mrna vaccines seem like a major breakthrough. Like does it give us the ability to get our bodies to create an immune response to any protein structure we can create instruction for? Does that not mean we can vaccinate against every virus not just coronavirus?

Hmmzis

joseywhales wrote: »

Maybe this is very naive but these mrna vaccines seem like a major breakthrough. Like does it give us the ability to get our bodies to create an immune response to any protein structure we can create instruction for? Does that not mean we can vaccinate against every virus not just coronavirus?

Yes, if you can encode the protein with mRNA (should be basically any protein that a living cell can produce) then you can make a vaccine that creates an immune response against it. There might be ways how to solve some auto-immune disorders as well by creating proteins that bind to rouge antibodies but don't block the bodies own signaling proteins for the same receptors.

funnydoggy

I'm feeling hopeful today about the HSE's capabilities.. don't ruin it for me today at least :P

Russia will begin a mass rollout from next week of their jab

https://www.ft.com/content/5669c29c-a998-4373-9541-059169bf5ccb

Irish Stones

Deleted User wrote: »

Can hold 200,000 doses, so for our population and with regular supply should be fine. We should be aiming for 20,000 - 30,000 vaccines a day.

There are freezers that don't need power supply and can store up to 40,000 doses for a couple of days, this could cope with a few logistics issues.

Caraibh

An article in the Telegraph says that people will still have to self-isolate after taking the vaccine. So what's the point in taking the vaccine if nothing changes?

https://mobile.twitter.com/simondolan?prefetchtimestamp=1607087658589

timsey tiger

Caraibh wrote: »

An article in the Telegraph says that people will still have to self-isolate after taking the vaccine. So what's the point in taking the vaccine if nothing changes?

https://mobile.twitter.com/simondolan?prefetchtimestamp=1607087658589

The restirctions are based on the incidence level of the disease. When the numbers vaccinated increase, the numbers presenting with the disease will decline and the restrictions will fall down through the levels to zero. It just won't all happen in one week though. Maybe 3-4 months to work through.

Caraibh

timsey tiger wrote: »

The restirctions are based on the incidence level of the disease. When the numbers vaccinated increase, the numbers presenting with the disease will decline and the restrictions will fall down through the levels to zero. It just won't all happen in one week though. Maybe 3-4 months to work through.

Thanks. I read the comments on the tweet and people were freaking out.

brisan

Deleted User wrote: »

Can hold 200,000 doses, so for our population and with regular supply should be fine. We should be aiming for 20,000 - 30,000 vaccines a day.

30,000 a day should be the bare minimum if we want to get 3m people vaccinated before the end of June

lbj666

Caraibh wrote: »

An article in the Telegraph says that people will still have to self-isolate after taking the vaccine. So what's the point in taking the vaccine if nothing changes?

https://mobile.twitter.com/simondolan?prefetchtimestamp=1607087658589

If the article wasnt behind a paywall it should shed some better light.

You can still bit a transmittor of the virus thats why vacine will have some impact on transmission but not be fully sterilising. So you may not get sick from it but you can pass to someone else who would not be protected ie. such as someone who hasn't been vacinated. So funnily enough its not really fair on someone who got the jab.

So if someone is a close contact or got a pcr positive they may still be asked to restrict their movements. Likely to be less than 2 weeks considering vacine should have an impact on viral load.

Sky King

What are people's thought's on allowing private citizens to pay for the vaccine to get it sooner? The optics aren't great if people with money are skipping the queue I'll agree but just think about it for a second:

1. It takes cost off the state and puts it onto the individual.
2. It gets to herd immunity much faster, meaning we can open the country up faster
3. It's not accepted accross the board that vulnerable people should get it first. france for example, is vaccinating workers and sheilding the vulnerable. It's just a legitimate approach as any other.

If the bottleneck is vaccine distribution, and it is quite likely that it might be - what's the point in having warehouses full of doses just sitting there because Solidarity or whoever doesn't like the state not being in total control?

If there is 50000 doses a week coming into ireland but we're only able to vaccinate 20,000 people using the govt created system, surely they should make the rest available for sale to whoever wants them?

Maybe I am missing something. Thoughts?

Russman

brisan wrote: »

30,000 a day should be the bare minimum if we want to get 3m people vaccinated before the end of June

I really can't see us hitting that sort of number in that timeframe unfortunately. Don't get me wrong, I hope we do.

For the sake of argument, lets say we ended up with 10 centres for vaccination, and lets say each of those had 10 booths or stalls. Each one would have to get through 300 per day. If they were open 12 hours a day that's 25 people per hour, little more than 2 minutes per person. That's before dealing with the people who'll actually take up 5 minutes because they have to ask a heap of questions of the person giving the shot. Where do I park when this is done ? What forms do I need to fill out ? I forgot a pen, etc etc.

I know that's completely "back of an envelope" with regard to numbers, but its still a massive, massive task.

I though read somewhere too that people need to stay around for 15 minutes after taking the shot in case of an adverse reaction - the parking requirements for that alone are huge.

GPs and chemists will take up some slack, but even they only schedule appointments every 15 mins, and they'll have their "normal" patients to see too.

Sky King

Russman wrote: »

If they were open 12 hours a day .

I think they should be open 24 hours per day, 7 days a week. It would be worth paying HCW to are doing the job triple wages to get the job done faster. Give them a holiday and a bonus at the end of it as well.

These lockdowns are destroying the country and the virus is killing people, it's as bad as a war.

conor_mc

jackboy wrote: »

The UK approving first makes him look bad. Second in the US is seen as no better than last. He is concerned about his own image not about the ‘rushed’ approval.

Nonsense, the man received multiple, serious death threats for preaching science over image, he is clearly not motivated by his “image”.

ACitizenErased

The first batch of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine has arrived in Northern Ireland - vaccinations start on Monday.

brisan

Russman wrote: »

I really can't see us hitting that sort of number in that timeframe unfortunately. Don't get me wrong, I hope we do.

For the sake of argument, lets say we ended up with 10 centres for vaccination, and lets say each of those had 10 booths or stalls. Each one would have to get through 300 per day. If they were open 12 hours a day that's 25 people per hour, little more than 2 minutes per person. That's before dealing with the people who'll actually take up 5 minutes because they have to ask a heap of questions of the person giving the shot. Where do I park when this is done ? What forms do I need to fill out ? I forgot a pen, etc etc.

I know that's completely "back of an envelope" with regard to numbers, but its still a massive, massive task.

I though read somewhere too that people need to stay around for 15 minutes after taking the shot in case of an adverse reaction - the parking requirements for that alone are huge.

GPs and chemists will take up some slack, but even they only schedule appointments every 15 mins, and they'll have their "normal" patients to see too.

Why so few centres ?
Exhibition centre ,Croke park ,3 areana ,Aviva stadium ,Blanchardstown hospital green space ,Beaumomt hospital green space ,Mater private car park
Thats just few in Dublin
Why only 10 booths .why not 20,50 75 100
How many nurses are qualified to give a vaccine
GP surgeries will be a waste of time
Can you see any over 70 going into a GP surgery and leaving 5 min later
IT will be at least 20 mins again they discuss all their aches and pains
Run it like a military operation ,throw money and people at it and gety it done as quick as possible

lbj666

Sky King wrote: »

What are people's thought's on allowing private citizens to pay for the vaccine to get it sooner? The optics aren't great if people with money are skipping the queue I'll agree but just think about it for a second:

1. It takes cost off the state and puts it onto the individual.
2. It gets to herd immunity much faster, meaning we can open the country up faster
3. It's not accepted accross the board that vulnerable people should get it first. france for example, is vaccinating workers and sheilding the vulnerable. It's just a legitimate approach as any other.

If the bottleneck is vaccine distribution, and it is quite likely that it might be - what's the point in having warehouses full of doses just sitting there because Solidarity or whoever doesn't like the state not being in total control?

If there is 50000 doses a week coming into ireland but we're only able to vaccinate 20,000 people using the govt created system, surely they should make the rest available for sale to whoever wants them?

Maybe I am missing something. Thoughts?

Forget about cost savings to the state, this pandemic is costing more to the economy by the week than any vacine rollout.

Private system would need to flex up to meet the demand and would be tapping into the same limited number of resources as public would for flexing up their operations.

If private resources are used it would by service agreements with the public system.
There would be war if it was a those who can pay can jump the queue, but you already knew that. Especially when people in lower socio economic backgrounds have tended to be more at risk.

braychelsea

Russman wrote: »

I really can't see us hitting that sort of number in that timeframe unfortunately. Don't get me wrong, I hope we do.

For the sake of argument, lets say we ended up with 10 centres for vaccination, and lets say each of those had 10 booths or stalls. Each one would have to get through 300 per day. If they were open 12 hours a day that's 25 people per hour, little more than 2 minutes per person. That's before dealing with the people who'll actually take up 5 minutes because they have to ask a heap of questions of the person giving the shot. Where do I park when this is done ? What forms do I need to fill out ? I forgot a pen, etc etc.
.

Individual UK vaccination centres are planning to vaccinate up to 5000 people every day. If we set up 6 of these we can reach this number, without even taking into account GP's and hospitals.

ceegee

Sky King wrote: »

I think they should be open 24 hours per day, 7 days a week. It would be worth paying HCW to are doing the job triple wages to get the job done faster. Give them a holiday and a bonus at the end of it as well.

These lockdowns are destroying the country and the virus is killing people, it's as bad as a war.

It would possibly be worthwhile to make some 24 hour facilities available but no point having all of them open, you'd just end up with a load of missed appointments at 4am leading to stock wastage

Sky King

I dunno, people get up at 4am to drive to the airport to get flights to Spain, I would be top of the queue for a vaccine at 4am if it meant I could get it done sooner and could go on holidays a few weeks afterwards

JimmyVik

braychelsea wrote: »

Individual UK vaccination centres are planning to vaccinate up to 5000 people every day. If we set up 6 of these we can reach this number, without even taking into account GP's and hospitals.

If they are able to do 100,000 tests a week they should able to vaccinate that number too.

Irish Stones

Russman wrote: »

I really can't see us hitting that sort of number in that timeframe unfortunately. Don't get me wrong, I hope we do.

It seems that a few governments are very optimistic about the distribution of the vaccines to their popuplations.
Italy said that they will start end of January, and they are sure they will give the vaccine to a very good part of the population by the end of August, which, I think, is pure sci-fi.

I though read somewhere too that people need to stay around for 15 minutes after taking the shot in case of an adverse reaction - the parking requirements for that alone are huge.

How is this a rule that an ADR will show up within 15 minutes?
It could happen, say, 23 minutes later, when one is already on the road, driving on a motorway and ends up in a ditch because they get sick.

Pasteur.

Highly unlikely GPs surgeries will be administering vaccines

And neither should they

JimmyVik

Irish Stones wrote: »

How is this a rule that an ADR will show up within 15 minutes?
It could happen, say, 23 minutes later, when one is already on the road, driving on a motorway and ends up in a ditch because they get sick.

Thats just a rule for the sake of a rule.
If anyone got the flu vaccine this year they told them to get out right after the jab. Any other year and you would sitting twiddling your thumbs for 15 minutes, or else have just stood up and left early.

Russman

brisan wrote: »

Why so few centres ?
Exhibition centre ,Croke park ,3 areana ,Aviva stadium ,Blanchardstown hospital green space ,Beaumomt hospital green space ,Mater private car park
Thats just few in Dublin
Why only 10 booths .why not 20,50 75 100
How many nurses are qualified to give a vaccine
GP surgeries will be a waste of time
Can you see any over 70 going into a GP surgery and leaving 5 min later
IT will be at least 20 mins again they discuss all their aches and pains
Run it like a military operation ,throw money and people at it and gety it done as quick as possible

I don't disagree with you at all. I was only throwing out numbers to see the scale of what's required. I read somewhere that Germany were building 60 centres so I took a flier at 10 centres for us.
Money isn't really an issue for once, but there are other logistical resources that are finite - trained staff, syringes, space, vaccine shots, refrigeration capability etc..

Totally agree with running it like a military operation. Hopefully that's what they'll do.

Cordell

JimmyVik wrote: »

Thats just a rule for the sake of a rule.
If anyone got the flu vaccine this year they told them to get out right after the jab. Any other year and you would sitting twiddling your thumbs for 15 minutes, or else have just stood up and left early.

Not at my GP, we were told to go to the "recovery" room - which is the old waiting room, normally not in use now.

Sconsey

JimmyVik wrote: »

Thats just a rule for the sake of a rule.
If anyone got the flu vaccine this year they told them to get out right after the jab. Any other year and you would sitting twiddling your thumbs for 15 minutes, or else have just stood up and left early.

I've got the flu jab many times over the years, never asked to hang around, just in and out every time.

Sky King

Sky King wrote: »

What are people's thought's on allowing private citizens to pay for the vaccine to get it sooner? The optics aren't great if people with money are skipping the queue I'll agree but just think about it for a second:

1. It takes cost off the state and puts it onto the individual.
2. It gets to herd immunity much faster, meaning we can open the country up faster
3. It's not accepted accross the board that vulnerable people should get it first. france for example, is vaccinating workers and sheilding the vulnerable. It's just a legitimate approach as any other.

If the bottleneck is vaccine distribution, and it is quite likely that it might be - what's the point in having warehouses full of doses just sitting there because Solidarity or whoever doesn't like the state not being in total control?

If there is 50000 doses a week coming into ireland but we're only able to vaccinate 20,000 people using the govt created system, surely they should make the rest available for sale to whoever wants them?

Maybe I am missing something. Thoughts?

If you get 50,000 doses and the uptake amongst the highest priority group is only 20,000 of these, you move to the next priority group. Not the lad who wants to skip the queue with a help of a few quid.

I think that's where capitalism starts slipping into dystopia.

Cordell

What are people's thought's on allowing private citizens to pay for the vaccine to get it sooner?

If the publicly funded HSE does it, it's not good.
If done privately, then there's no problem at all to allow people to reduce the pressure on the public system while still funding it.

AdamD

If you were going the route of having excess supplies of vaccines compared with distribution would it not be preferable to hire these private companies to distribute the vaccines to the high-priority (vulnerable) population, rather than allowing anyone to purchase one?

At this point money just isn't an issue, because the alternative to efficient distribution of the vaccine is far more expensive.

Steve F

I've been thinking(never a good thing for me)
If they said here in Ireland that if you haven't been vaccinated for Covid19 you can't travel overseas I reckon you would see a massive increase in people agreeing to be vaccinated.

I heard "rumours" that some counties won't allow people into their country without documentation that they have had the vaccine.
Spain maybe?

PCeeeee

Deleted User wrote: »

If you get 50,000 doses and the uptake amongst the highest priority group is only 20,000 of these, you move to the next priority group. Not the lad who wants to skip the queue with a help of a few quid.

I think that's where capitalism starts slipping into dystopia.

In fairness Johnny, any kind of medical treatment can be bought and I mean any if you have the cash. Rightly or wrongly I can't see this being any different.

Stark

Apparently Europol are warning member states that criminals are waiting to capitalize on that desire by selling fake vaccines to people.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1334894010343763972

Sky King

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you get 50,000 doses and the uptake amongst the highest priority group is only 20,000 of these, you move to the next priority group. Not the lad who wants to skip the queue with a help of a few quid.

I think that's where capitalism starts slipping into dystopia.

You didn't understand my post. Let me explain again by way of hypothetical scenario:

Theres (say) 50,000 a week coming into the country. The govt rollout infrastructure is maxed out at 25,000 a week being administered through their various inefficiencies. This leaves the balance just sitting there in fridges.

Should we:

A: Leave it sitting there to appease people such as yourself who are apparently afraid of a Randian dystopia.
B: Sell it, knowing that it will get into the population faster
?

stephenjmcd

Stark wrote: »

Apparently Europol are warning member states that criminals are waiting to capitalize on that desire by selling fake vaccines to people.

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1334894010343763972

Sounds like the usual dont go buying medication off the Internet stuff. Should be common sense for most people, if there's a website offering covid vaccines posted to your door its too good to be true.

polesheep

Sky King wrote: »

You didn't understand my post. Let me explain again by way of hypothetical scenario:

Theres (say) 50,000 a week coming into the country. The govt rollout infrastructure is maxed out at 25,000 a week being administered through their various inefficiencies. This leaves the balance just sitting there in fridges.

Should we:

A: Leave it sitting there to appease people such as yourself who are apparently afraid of a Randian dystopia.
B: Sell it, knowing that it will get into the population faster
?

C: Pay the people who were going to administer it privately to administer it to the general public free of charge.

Sky King

polesheep wrote: »

C: Pay the people who were going to administer it privately to administer it to the general public free of charge.

That's reasonable. Do you think they will though ?

polesheep

Sky King wrote: »

That's reasonable. Do you think they will though ?

I think you are getting ahead of yourself.