COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

ACitizenErased

seamus wrote: »

Rolling out the vaccine won't save any lives for 6-8 weeks and without a proper consideration of the data you cannot say that it will save any lives in the long run.

This is not emergency surgery where you rip the patient open to save their life and deal with the long-term consequences later. The process needs to be followed to ensure you're not causing more damage than you're trying to prevent.

You're losing more people every week longer, to be fair. Can't really use the 'it wont save lives' line when it will.

brisan

seamus wrote: »

Rolling out the vaccine won't save any lives for 6-8 weeks and without a proper consideration of the data you cannot say that it will save any lives in the long run.

This is not emergency surgery where you rip the patient open to save their life and deal with the long-term consequences later. The process needs to be followed to ensure you're not causing more damage than you're trying to prevent.

May as well leave in till May so till the good weather comes in
Every day we delay means more people will die
That’s not saying I am in favour of rushing approval , it’s just a fact

timsey tiger

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You're losing more people every week longer, to be fair. Can't really use the 'it wont save lives' line when it will.

Provided it is safe. If you don't do all the checks, you decided to, then you are undermining your own process any giving the public reason to not trust the regulator and medical profession.

In long run you could cost lives, by lower take up from a fear that "the vaccine was rushed through" or from not finding the "issue" with the vaccine by failing the due diligence you've set yourself.

The constraint in January will be on the manifacturing side not the administeration, meaning we will be able to catch up with the UK, before end of January.

timsey tiger

brisan wrote: »

May as well leave in till May so till the good weather comes in
Every day we delay means more people will die
That’s not saying I am in favour of rushing approval , it’s just a fact

From this attitude, I guess you'd have started shooting people up with hydroxy. back in March and not stopped...

is_that_so

braychelsea wrote: »

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/taoiseach-micheal-martin-says-ireland-23127840

Martin saying Ireland ready to vaccinate before Christmas if EMA approval is brought forward

The plan will not be sent to government until the end of this week and being ready doesn't mean we'll start.

brisan

timsey tiger wrote: »

From this attitude, I guess you'd have started shooting people up with hydroxy. back in March and not stopped...

That’s quite a leap there
Just because I and another poster said you were wrong there is no need to get all antsy
It is a discussion forum after all

AdamD

seamus wrote: »

Rolling out the vaccine won't save any lives for 6-8 weeks and without a proper consideration of the data you cannot say that it will save any lives in the long run.

This is not emergency surgery where you rip the patient open to save their life and deal with the long-term consequences later. The process needs to be followed to ensure you're not causing more damage than you're trying to prevent.

Whether its the correct decision or not, is it not pretty clear that releasing it earlier would absolutely save lives?

I still think they should follow the process, but this is a seperate point.

brisan

timsey tiger wrote: »

Provided it is safe. If you don't do all the checks, you decided to, then you are undermining your own process any giving the public reason to not trust the regulator and medical profession.

In long run you could cost lives, by lower take up from a fear that "the vaccine was rushed through" or from not finding the "issue" with the vaccine by failing the due diligence you've set yourself.

The constraint in January will be on the manifacturing side not the administeration, meaning we will be able to catch up with the UK, before end of January.

While there will be constraints on productions initially I would not be too optimistic that the administration of the vaccines will go as smoothly as it should

Jim_Hodge

It's hardly news as this has been mooted since last April or May. You seem to have overlooked that many over 80's were in fact immunised, as adult, when the BCG vaccine was rolled out.

funnydoggy

I can't wait until this subforum is old and dusty when COVID no longer bothers us. What a time to be alive

ShineOn7

funnydoggy wrote: »

I can't wait until this subforum is old and dusty when COVID no longer bothers us. What a time to be alive

I can't wait till it's padlocked and archived like the Finished & Cancelled TV Shows forum

hmmm

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You're losing more people every week longer, to be fair. Can't really use the 'it wont save lives' line when it will.

I'd expect them (the Regulators) to be working on this as a priority 7 days a week. Not to cut corners (which in fairness they aren't). That's all we can ask of them.

ShineOn7

Reddit Ireland

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/k8e9ph/outside_a_gp_in_blanchardstown_this_morning/

An expensive looking anti vaccine sign put up outside a GP's office in Blanch

Highlighted comment

"They’ve some amount of money to be spending. I’d love to see where it’s coming from"

Answer:

The same place (most of) the money came from to "fight" against marriage equality and safe access to abortion: the American far right, via religious groups they send here to try to drag Irish society down with them.

They're a fcuking plague, and they're not content with ruining their own country. They have seriously got to be dealt with.

There's going to be a year of this nonsense isn't there?

Doesn't matter. We'll still win

Marty Bird

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Reddit Ireland

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/k8e9ph/outside_a_gp_in_blanchardstown_this_morning/

An expensive looking anti vaccine sign put up outside a GP's office in Blanch

Highlighted comment




There's going to be a year of this nonsense isn't there?

Doesn't matter. We'll still win

What an arsehole that was doing the rounds down at the sea front in Sandycove yesterday.

ShineOn7

Marty Bird wrote: »

What an arsehole that was doing the rounds down at the sea front in Sandycove yesterday.

The same message was on an LED billboard there too?

ACitizenErased

hmmm wrote: »

I'd expect them (the Regulators) to be working on this as a priority 7 days a week. Not to cut corners (which in fairness they aren't). That's all we can ask of them.

I'm not denying that.
My point was it is utterly wrong to suggest that we won't save lives if it was approved today, tomorrow or next week.

ixoy

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I'm not denying that.
My point was it is utterly wrong to suggest that we won't save lives if it was approved today, tomorrow or next week.

If the EMA found some fundamental flaw though in their review, they might actually save lives, and health anyway, by having not rushed it through. It's unlikely but it's why we have to be sure.

VonLuck

Does anyone know when/if full details of the rollout will be announced? I'm thinking a programme of time periods for vaccinating the various groups followed by stepping down of levels.

Just plucking figures out of the air, but could be something like:

February 2021 - 150,000 vaccinated - elimination of Levels 4 & 5.

April 2021 - 750,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 3.

June 2021 - 1,500,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 2.

etc.

Would be nice to know what they're working towards.

hmmm

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone know when/if full details of the rollout will be announced? I'm thinking a programme of time periods for vaccinating the various groups followed by stepping down of levels.

It's being given to government formally on Friday 11th.

I think there's too many unknowns to give even a hint of guidance at levels unfortunately. I expect the plan will be vaccinate as many people as possible, as quickly as possible, and monitor the results on case numbers and hospital capacity.

There was an interesting debate in the US over the weekend as to whether it's better to give a first injection to as many people as possible, or to give a first injection & hold back supply for the second injection. I'd expect issues like that will be mentioned in the plan.

Hooter23

It said on channel 4 news a couple of days ago the vaccine will only sterilize 60-70% of the people that get it

funnydoggy

Hooter23 wrote: »

It said on channel 4 news a couple of days ago the vaccine will only sterilize 60-70% of the people that get it

I hope not :eek::pac:

brisan

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone know when/if full details of the rollout will be announced? I'm thinking a programme of time periods for vaccinating the various groups followed by stepping down of levels.

Just plucking figures out of the air, but could be something like:

February 2021 - 150,000 vaccinated - elimination of Levels 4 & 5.

April 2021 - 750,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 3.

June 2021 - 1,500,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 2.

etc.

Would be nice to know what they're working towards.

The actual plan and how the plan eventually rolls out will in my opinion be two totally different things

brisan

funnydoggy wrote: »

Hooter23 wrote: »

It said on channel 4 news a couple of days ago the vaccine will only sterilize 60-70% of the people that get it[/QUOTE]






I hope not :eek::pac:

Dream scenario for Bill and Melinda:D

Marty Bird

ShineOn7 wrote: »

The same message was on an LED billboard there too?

Yeah on the back of a trailer.

snotboogie

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Reddit Ireland

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/k8e9ph/outside_a_gp_in_blanchardstown_this_morning/

An expensive looking anti vaccine sign put up outside a GP's office in Blanch

Highlighted comment




There's going to be a year of this nonsense isn't there?

Doesn't matter. We'll still win

Its coming from Russia and China, who have by far the most to gain from covid misinformation.

funnydoggy

brisan wrote: »

Dream scenario for Bill and Melinda:D

Brilliant :pac:

hmmm

Marty Bird wrote: »

Yeah on the back of a trailer.

I take all my health advice from the back of a trailer. Just can't stand the mainstream media and their "experts".

In other vaccine news, a universal flu jab is getting closer:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1118-7

" Vaccination was found to be safe and induced a broad, strong, durable and functional immune response targeting the conserved, immunosubdominant stalk of the hemagglutinin. "

Immunosubdominant stalk of the hemagglutinin - sounds like made-up fancy words.

CIARAN_BOYLE

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone know when/if full details of the rollout will be announced? I'm thinking a programme of time periods for vaccinating the various groups followed by stepping down of levels.

Just plucking figures out of the air, but could be something like:

February 2021 - 150,000 vaccinated - elimination of Levels 4 & 5.

April 2021 - 750,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 3.

June 2021 - 1,500,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 2.

etc.

Would be nice to know what they're working towards.

It depends.

How many vaccines will be approved when and how good will they be.

Do we plan for Pfizer, Moderna, Oxford and J&J or just for Pfizer Moderna Oxford. What of one of those are rejected.

What's approved with Oxford the tiny trial of half/full which appeared to have good efficacy or the full/full with a bigger trial and worse efficacy.

funnydoggy

hmmm wrote: »

Immunosubdominant stalk of the hemagglutinin - sounds like made-up fancy words.

I think I had that in a restaurant once.

timsey tiger

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone know when/if full details of the rollout will be announced? I'm thinking a programme of time periods for vaccinating the various groups followed by stepping down of levels.

Just plucking figures out of the air, but could be something like:

February 2021 - 150,000 vaccinated - elimination of Levels 4 & 5.

April 2021 - 750,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 3.

June 2021 - 1,500,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 2.

etc.

Would be nice to know what they're working towards.

I doubt that it is knowable at the moment. 150,000 prob. would be low to guarantee dropping to level three. We prob. have that level immune already from recovering from covid.

I think that incidence levels will continue to determine the level of lockdown.

brisan

VonLuck wrote: »

Does anyone know when/if full details of the rollout will be announced? I'm thinking a programme of time periods for vaccinating the various groups followed by stepping down of levels.

Just plucking figures out of the air, but could be something like:

February 2021 - 150,000 vaccinated - elimination of Levels 4 & 5.

April 2021 - 750,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 3.

June 2021 - 1,500,000 vaccinated - elimination of Level 2.

etc.

Would be nice to know what they're working towards.

The only criteria should be the availability of the vaccines
As soon as the vaccines arrive in Ireland they should be dispensed within a couple of days till all those who wish to be vaccinated are vaccinated
No point in having vaccines in fridges if they can be in peoples bodies
It will just take the willpower and the money to make it happen
The HSE cannot be allowed to make this a PROJECT
If necessary the army should be given the lead on this
This is too important to the state and its people on all levels, socially, medically and economically to be trusted to the HSE alone
FFG will never be forgiven if they allow the HSE and NPHET to make a mess of this
The Governments entire future depends on this and they know it
If we are down the list of EU countries to be finished vaccinating questions will be asked and heads will need to roll

VonLuck

hmmm wrote: »

I think there's too many unknowns to give even a hint of guidance at levels unfortunately. I expect the plan will be vaccinate as many people as possible, as quickly as possible, and monitor the results on case numbers and hospital capacity.

Well I imagine that 1000 cases a day now is a lot more serious than 1000 cases a day with all the vulnerable and medical professionals vaccinated. I would hope that they take that into consideration on the relaxation of restrictions.

timsey tiger

VonLuck wrote: »

Well I imagine that 1000 cases a day now is a lot more serious than 1000 cases a day with all the vulnerable and medical professionals vaccinated. I would hope that they take that into consideration on the relaxation of restrictions.

They will, as they always have said the main reason for the lockdowns is to avoid overwhelming the health syatem.

Beasty

Threads merged

Cluedo Monopoly

My radio alarm goes off at 8am every morning. For just once I would like the headline news not to include Covid or Brexit.

marno21

Jonathan Van Tam said last week that the first wave of vaccinations is anticipated to cut 99% of hospitalisations and deaths. That brings the IFR down below 0.01%. At that stage restrictions should become voluntary - especially if it provides a degree of sterilising immunity to those vaccinated, which we will learn about in due course.

Stheno

marno21 wrote: »

Jonathan Van Tam said last week that the first wave of vaccinations is anticipated to cut 99% of hospitalisations and deaths. That brings the IFR down below 0.01%. At that stage restrictions should become voluntary - especially if it provides a degree of sterilising immunity to those vaccinated, which we will learn about in due course.

Wow that would be incredible

is_that_so

timsey tiger wrote: »

They will, as they always have said the main reason for the lockdowns is to avoid overwhelming the health system.

Which has never actually happened here. Numbers in hospital and ICU are a fraction of what we saw earlier in the year.

JacksonHeightsOwn

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

My radio alarm goes off at 8am every morning. For just once I would like the headline news not to include Covid or Brexit.

RTE gold they don't mention the dreaded C word.

is_that_so

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

My radio alarm goes off at 8am every morning. For just once I would like the headline news not to include Covid or Brexit.

Set it for 7.55, so you get the weather instead!

Water John

Having a dose of stress inducing news on auto on that early in the morning is bad for any person.
Would be very hopeful of the vaccines. Things are likely to be reasonably normal by next summer.

timsey tiger

is_that_so wrote: »

Which has never actually happened here. Numbers in hospital and ICU are a fraction of what we saw earlier in the year.

They learned their lesson, it is about prevention not cure. it is also thankless.

Pasteur.

marno21 wrote: »

Jonathan Van Tam said last week that the first wave of vaccinations is anticipated to cut 99% of hospitalisations and deaths. That brings the IFR down below 0.01%. At that stage restrictions should become voluntary - especially if it provides a degree of sterilising immunity to those vaccinated, which we will learn about in due course.

Meaning no masks and everything else?

tobefrank321

How long does it take to defrost something from -70 celcius?

It takes me about 8 hours to defrost steaks from normal freezer temps!

Stark

Just stick it in the microwave, be grand :pac:

Hmmzis

Take this with a grain of salt as it's a news source and no comment from the manufacturer.
Reportedly Serum Institute of India is seeking EUA from Indian authorities for the AZ/Oxford vaccine:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/07/indias-serum-institute-seeks-emergency-use-for-astrazenecas-vaccine-.html

Cork2021

Hmmzis wrote: »

Take this with a grain of salt as it's a news source and no comment from the manufacturer.
Reportedly Serum Institute of India is seeking EUA from Indian authorities for the AZ/Oxford vaccine:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/07/indias-serum-institute-seeks-emergency-use-for-astrazenecas-vaccine-.html

Why haven’t AstraZeneca gone for EUA with the EMA yet? I know there’s been a rolling review but the other 2 seem to be more on the ball. I assume the 1/2 dose regimen is what’s stalling this

Hmmzis

Cork2021 wrote: »

Why haven’t AstraZeneca gone for EUA with the EMA yet? I know there’s been a rolling review but the other 2 seem to be more on the ball. I assume the 1/2 dose regimen is what’s stalling this

I don't think they have the full readout yet. What they have released is interim results which should appear in The Lancet this week hopefully.

ceegee

tobefrank321 wrote: »

How long does it take to defrost something from -70 celcius?

It takes me about 8 hours to defrost steaks from normal freezer temps!

3 hours in the fridge or 30 minutes at room temperature

stephenjmcd

Cork2021 wrote: »

Why haven’t AstraZeneca gone for EUA with the EMA yet? I know there’s been a rolling review but the other 2 seem to be more on the ball. I assume the 1/2 dose regimen is what’s stalling this

What was released was interim analysis, full readout not out yet I don't think.

Interview recently where they said they half dose full dose wouldn't be an issue for UK or EU regulators.

The FDA don't accept data from trials not held in the USA and the half dose full dose didn't have a trial there so they'll want a trial of it to be submitted.