COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

nocoverart

As the great Jessie Bruce Pinkman once said, Yeah Science!

tobefrank321

tobefrank321 wrote: »

How long does it take to defrost something from -70 celcius?

It takes me about 8 hours to defrost steaks from normal freezer temps!

A vial of the vaccine is a bit smaller than your average steak I would hope.

Peregrinus

Deleted User wrote: »

A vial of the vaccine is a bit smaller than your average steak I would hope.

This. As we all remember from Inter Cert Science, how long a thing takes to heat up or cool down depends on (a) its mass and (b) its specific heat capacity.

If the vaccine is injectable, then it's likely that a vial of the vaccine will contain mostly normal saline water, so its specific heat capacity will be close to that of water. So, how long will it take to bring a vial of vaccine to from -70 to room temperature? About the same time as it would take to bring a similar quantity of water (presumably, a few mls) from -70 to room temperature.

JacksonHeightsOwn

Peregrinus wrote: »

This. As we all remember from Inter Cert Science, how long a thing takes to heat up or cool down depends on (a) its mass and (b) its specific heat capacity.

If the vaccine is injectable, then it's likely that a vial of the vaccine will contain mostly normal saline water, so its specific heat capacity will be close to that of water. So, how long will it take to bring a vial of vaccine to from -70 to room temperature? About the same time as it would take to bring a similar quantity of water (presumably, a few mls) from -70 to room temperature.

In layman's terms, rub it between your hands for a few minutes and away you go :-D

Peregrinus

chrisbonnie wrote: »

In layman's terms, rub it between your hands for a few minutes and away you go :-D

Don't do this at home. Contact with something that cold - -70 is much, much colder than your home freezer will ever be - can give you a nasty burn, even scarring.

DellyBelly

Great boost to see the vaccine roll out.. Wish we were not in the EU like Britain and getting it today. Maybe we should look at being more like Britain and be able to do things for ourselves rather than wait till Brussels says so.

lawrencesummers

Today starts the biggest medical trial in world history.

In what will be billed as a political success story in photocalls by politicians all over there is little to no consideration given to the possible (Yes possible, hopefully there are none) issues from this Vaccine.

It’s remarkable that less than 12 months on from the ‘official’ discovery of the virus on these shores scientists have discovered, and pharmaceutical companies have produced in huge quantities the vaccine. Hats off to you.

While many are happy to cling to the headlines from the manufacturers of 90+ effectiveness there are large gaps in the data regarding testing.

The regulators have approved this (correctly) under emergency status or outside of their typical process because no safety data exists outside of a maximin of 6 months from use.

We don’t know a number of things about this vaccine, and the information on these things will only come out during the next while as they have not been covered in the trials

Is it safe for pregnant women, or those trying to get pregnant?
Is it safe for children?
Is there any other medicine that it cannot be taken with?
Do any existing medical conditions mean it cannot be taken?
How long does the vaccine provide immunity for.

lawrencesummers

DellyBelly wrote: »

Great boost to see the vaccine roll out.. Wish we were not in the EU like Britain and getting it today. Maybe we should look at being more like Britain and be able to do things for ourselves rather than wait till Brussels says so.

Emigration is an option.

Peregrinus

DellyBelly wrote: »

Great boost to see the vaccine roll out.. Wish we were not in the EU like Britain and getting it today. Maybe we should look at being more like Britain and be able to do things for ourselves rather than wait till Brussels says so.

UK is still operating under the same EU rules as we are. UK has given emergency authorisation to the Pfizer vaccine by exercising the power to do so conferrred by Art 5(2) of the Medicines Directive; we could too. Any Member State could.

There are pros and cons to doing so. But the issue has nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit, and the desire of some UK voices to present is as a Brexit issue suggest that (a) they are very ignorant or (b) they are anxious to distract attention from the real issue that arise in a decision of this kind (or, I suppose, (c) both of these things).

Possedion

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Today starts the biggest medical trial in world history.

In what will be billed as a political success story in photocalls by politicians all over there is little to no consideration given to the possible (Yes possible, hopefully there are none) issues from this Vaccine.

It’s remarkable that less than 12 months on from the ‘official’ discovery of the virus on these shores scientists have discovered, and pharmaceutical companies have produced in huge quantities the vaccine. Hats off to you.

While many are happy to cling to the headlines from the manufacturers of 90+ effectiveness there are large gaps in the data regarding testing.

The regulators have approved this (correctly) under emergency status or outside of their typical process because no safety data exists outside of a maximin of 6 months from use.

We don’t know a number of things about this vaccine, and the information on these things will only come out during the next while as they have not been covered in the trials

Is it safe for pregnant women, or those trying to get pregnant?
Is it safe for children?
Is there any other medicine that it cannot be taken with?
Do any existing medical conditions mean it cannot be taken?
How long does the vaccine provide immunity for.

You should email these critical points to the fda / ema. 😊

lawrencesummers

Possedion wrote: »

You should email these critical points to the fda / ema. ��

Naw, I’m just gonna sit back with a big bowl of popcorn.

DellyBelly

Peregrinus wrote: »

UK is still operating under the same EU rules as we are. UK has given emergency authorisation to the Pfizer vaccine by exercising the power to do so conferrred by Art 5(2) of the Medicines Directive; we could too. Any Member State could.

There are pros and cons to doing so. But the issue has nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit, and the desire of some UK voices to present is as a Brexit issue suggest that (a) they are very ignorant or (b) they are anxious to distract attention from the real issue that arise in a decision of this kind (or, I suppose, (c) both of these things).

Didn't realise that. Obviously we are being overly cautious

Sky King

DellyBelly wrote: »

Didn't realise that. Obviously we are being overly cautious

I'd argue that the brits are being underly cautious, a view shared by the regulators in the EU and Fauci in the US.

noserider

DellyBelly wrote: »

Great boost to see the vaccine roll out.. Wish we were not in the EU like Britain and getting it today. Maybe we should look at being more like Britain and be able to do things for ourselves rather than wait till Brussels says so.

First person vaccinated in N Ireland this morning at 6:30 am.

Pasteur.

noserider wrote: »

First person vaccinated in N Ireland this morning at 6:30 am.

How's he doing?

Happydays2020

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Vaccination against tuberculosis can reduce the spread of COVID-19 and ease its course
Analysis showed that the spread of the new coronavirus infection occurs more slowly where there is a large percentage of people vaccinated against tuberculosis with the BCG vaccine. (Peer reviewed)

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-12/spsu-vat120320.php

We have a high number of people who've had the BCG vaccine, I'm assuming as the average age of death with Covid here is late 80's a lot of that generation haven't had it. Also our under 5's haven't had it.
We're accrediting all Covid success to restrictions while attributing nothing to the existing vaccine.

There's been too many studies and peer reviewed papers to continue to ignore the help the BCG vaccine has given us.

At this stage with all the evidence I find it deceitful by NPHET to take all the credit based on their restrictions.

The children of Cork did not receive the vaccine for many years. If I am correct, from 1973 to 2006

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/cork-babies-to-get-routine-tb-vaccine-after-36-year-gap-1.904443.

DellyBelly

Pasteur. wrote: »

How's he doing?

Turned into a woman and is speaking 40 different languages.. Also has grown 7 new fingers but looks like they are Covid resistant.. Bring it on

Pasteur.

DellyBelly wrote: »

Turned into a woman and is speaking 40 different languages.. Also has grown 7 new fingers but looks like they are Covid resistant.. Bring it on

Thought these vaccines had been checked?

Wtf like

Happydays2020

Pasteur. wrote: »

How's he doing?

It seems he is now a she.

WoollyRedHat

Margaret Keenan became first person in the world to receive the Pfizer vaccine after it was approved by the UK last week. Margaret who is 90 years old and lives in Coventry, got the vaccination at a local hospital at 06:45am this morning, by nurse May Parsons, as the NHS started the national vaccination rollout programme. Margaret is originally from NI Enniskillen.

She was followed by William Shakespeare in Warwickshire, who was heard to remark 'Is this a dagger which I see before me, the handle toward my hand?’ to which the nurse replied 'No love, it's just a vaccination needle jab'.

Sister Joanna Sloan also becomes the first person to receive the jab on the island of Ireland. One for the pub quizzes!

Peregrinus

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Margaret Keenan became first person to receive the Pfizer vaccine in the world after it was approved by the UK last week. Margaret who is 90 years old and lives in Coventry, got the vaccination at a local hospital at 06:45am this morning, by nurse May Parsons, as the NHS started the national vaccination rollout.. Margaret is originally from NI Enniskillen.

She was followed by William Shakespeare by Warwickshire, who was heard to remark 'before he received it 'Is this a dagger which I see before me, the handle toward my hand?’ to which the nurse replied 'No love, it's just a vaccination jab'.

Sister Joanna Sloan also becomes the first person to receive the jab on the island of Ireland. One for the quizzes!

Thousands of people have received the Pfizer vaccine. How did you think the clinical trials were conducted?

WoollyRedHat

Peregrinus wrote: »

Thousands of people have received the Pfizer vaccine. How did you think the clinical trials were conducted?

The approved version outside the trials, don't be so oblique.

Peregrinus

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

The approved version outside the trials, don't be so oblique.

There's isn't an "approved version"; it's exactly the same vaccine. What you've got is people who received the vaccine as part of a clinical trial, and people who received the vaccine on the basis of an emergency authorisation. What we don't (yet) have is anybody who received the vaccine on the basis of a full regulatory licence.

WoollyRedHat

Peregrinus wrote: »

There's isn't an "approved version"; it's exactly the same vaccine. What you've got is people who received the vaccine as part of a clinical trial, and people who received the vaccine on the basis of an emergency authorisation. What we don't (yet) have is anybody who received the vaccine on the basis of a full regulatory licence.

Approved on the basis of emergency authorization then, I feel like you're splitting hairs, didn't say it was fully licenced yet.

ETA: I just looked online and the UK licensed it last week?

XsApollo

The first person to receive the vaccine outside of a trial setting so.

Peregrinus

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

ETA: I just looked online and the UK licensed it last week?

No. They've given it an emergency authorisation.

(From the point of view of the people getting the vaccine, I don't think this makes a lot of difference. From the point of view of the people making and selling the vaccine, it does.)

hmmm

Some US news. Long story short, Pfizer didn't accept money as part of "Operation Warp Speed" to avoid any hint of political interference (wise move).

The US as a consequence only bought 100 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine (for 50 million people).

Pfizer pops up with 95% effectiveness and the US panics and tries to buy more. Pfizer tell them that they can't have more until June/July 2021 as they have agreeements signed with other countries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/07/pfizer-vaccine-doses-trump/

Trump as a consequence is planning on signing an executive order that would force US companies to prioritise vaccinating Americans before other countries. There's a lot of speculation as to how far this will go - is it just a fig leaf, or would he actually try and seize supplies.

Pfizer quite wisely set up vaccine manufacturing in Belgium as well as the US - but what happens if they are told this vaccine has to be flown back to the US, breaking the contracts it has with other countries? I'd be quite happy myself for the Belgians to park their tanks (if they have tanks) on the runway to seize this supply on behalf of the EU.

Happydays2020

hmmm wrote: »

Some US news. Long story short, Pfizer didn't accept money as part of "Operation Warp Speed" to avoid any hint of political interference (wise move).

The US as a consequence only bought 100 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine (for 50 million people).

Pfizer pops up with 95% effectiveness and the US panics and tries to buy more. Pfizer tell them that they can't have more until June/July 2021 as they have agreeements signed with other countries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/07/pfizer-vaccine-doses-trump/

Trump as a consequence is planning on signing an executive order that would force US companies to prioritise vaccinating Americans before other countries.

Pfizer quite wisely set up vaccine manufacturing in Belgium as well as the US - but what happens if they are told this vaccine has to be flown back to the US, breaking the contracts it has with other countries? I'd be quite happy myself for the Belgians to park their tanks (if they have tanks) on the runway to seize this supply on behalf of the EU.

As a self proclaimed business man he behaves a lot like a communist dictator.

Pasteur.

hmmm wrote: »

Some US news. Long story short, Pfizer didn't accept money as part of "Operation Warp Speed" to avoid any hint of political interference (wise move).

The US as a consequence only bought 100 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine (for 50 million people).

Pfizer pops up with 95% effectiveness and the US panics and tries to buy more. Pfizer tell them that they can't have more until June/July 2021 as they have agreeements signed with other countries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/07/pfizer-vaccine-doses-trump/

Trump as a consequence is planning on signing an executive order that would force US companies to prioritise vaccinating Americans before other countries.

Pfizer quite wisely set up vaccine manufacturing in Belgium as well as the US - but what happens if they are told this vaccine has to be flown back to the US, breaking the contracts it has with other countries? I'd be quite happy myself for the Belgians to park their tanks (if they have tanks) on the runway to seize this supply on behalf of the EU.

Can't see the US having the authority to requisition vaccines from Belgium

ixoy

Peregrinus wrote: »

UK is still operating under the same EU rules as we are. UK has given emergency authorisation to the Pfizer vaccine by exercising the power to do so conferrred by Art 5(2) of the Medicines Directive; we could too. Any Member State could.

Would they have to use their own supply though in such cases rather than the EU supply already bought?

Russman

hmmm wrote: »

Some US news. Long story short, Pfizer didn't accept money as part of "Operation Warp Speed" to avoid any hint of political interference (wise move).

The US as a consequence only bought 100 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine (for 50 million people).

Pfizer pops up with 95% effectiveness and the US panics and tries to buy more. Pfizer tell them that they can't have more until June/July 2021 as they have agreeements signed with other countries. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/12/07/pfizer-vaccine-doses-trump/

Trump as a consequence is planning on signing an executive order that would force US companies to prioritise vaccinating Americans before other countries.

Pfizer quite wisely set up vaccine manufacturing in Belgium as well as the US - but what happens if they are told this vaccine has to be flown back to the US, breaking the contracts it has with other countries? I'd be quite happy myself for the Belgians to park their tanks (if they have tanks) on the runway to seize this supply on behalf of the EU.

Saw that story alright. Bit of egg on the faces of the admin, but what's another egg on top of what's already there.
TBH I can't see it gaining much traction. He's President, not King, and just because he signs an order it doesn't mean it happens (Mexican Wall).
I'd have to look it up, but I'd imagine Pfizer Europe is well enough isolated or removed from head office to avoid being told to ship it back to the US, plus IIRC its BioNTech that own the formula (I think) so they'd likely have a competing voice if it came to it.

Russman

ixoy wrote: »

Would they have to use their own supply though in such cases rather than the EU supply already bought?

Yes, the EU offered but the UK opted out of being part of the EU purchasing arrangement. It wasn't Brexity enough.

seamus

Pasteur. wrote: »

Can't see the US having the authority to requisition vaccines from Belgium

The US doesn't give a sh1t about soveriegnty or jurisdiction.

They would threaten Pfizer with massive fines or potentially even executives with criminal charges if they refused to bring stocks back to the US. The US likes to falsely believe that companies with a US HQ are "American" and therefore have a duty to be loyal to America.

Now, when it all shakes out, nothing would ultimately happen. Supreme courts and international courts would find Pfizer well within their rights to refuse to import stuff produced outside of the US, and fines and criminal charges declared a massive overstep in executive power.

But that wouldn't stop a mad scramble initially to try and avert a major incident.

ACitizenErased

There's not a hope in hell the US are going taking vaccines from Belgium, that's not gonna happen. The EU would have a coronary.

Pasteur.

seamus wrote: »

The US doesn't give a sh1t about soveriegnty or jurisdiction.

They would threaten Pfizer with massive fines or potentially even executives with criminal charges if they refused to bring stocks back to the US. The US likes to falsely believe that companies with a US HQ are "American" and therefore have a duty to be loyal to America.

Now, when it all shakes out, nothing would ultimately happen. Supreme courts and international courts would find Pfizer well within their rights to refuse to import stuff produced outside of the US, and fines and criminal charges declared a massive overstep in executive power.

But that wouldn't stop a mad scramble initially to try and avert a major incident.

Yes they do what they want and are hypocritical about it

See it in so many areas

seamus

ACitizenErased wrote: »

There's not a hope in hell the US are going taking vaccines from Belgium, that's not gonna happen. The EU would have a coronary.

No, of course not. But that doesn't mean the lunatic in charge of the asylum won't try.

lawrencesummers

It’s a pity Trump didn’t take the actual Virus as serious as the Vaccine.

There were plenty of reports in the early days of PPE being taken by the US that was destined for elsewhere.

Trump only knows one way to operate and that’s to Bully, when he can do it now in the name of the Greatest county in the world he will have plenty of support.

Marhay70

Trump's alter ego BoJo has no qualms about breaking agreements with other countries so I doubt the elder lemon would too concerned.
However, Executive Order or not I can't see the administration in the US following through on this, Trump is in his death throes never, I hope, to recover, and saner heads can see that despite all their power, the US still needs friends around the world to look after their interests.

hmmm

I don't think that the US would go as far as try and seize supplies, and probably what we'll see is something vague wrapped in a US flag but with no real impact. However it's a risk.

Gael23

To be honest I think the UK just want to be first. Today they ha r a picture of the first person in the world receiving the vaccine on UK soil

ACitizenErased

Gael23 wrote: »

To be honest I think the UK just want to be first. Today they ha r a picture of the first person in the world receiving the vaccine on UK soil

And fair play to them for it

seamus

They selected an Irish person to take the risk of having the first dose though :pac:

Marhay70

ACitizenErased wrote: »

And fair play to them for it

Why do you say that? They had little input in its development, all they did really was to bite the bullet on floating it.

ACitizenErased

Marhay70 wrote: »

Why do you say that? They had little input in its development, all they did really was to bite the bullet on floating it.

I think any country who leads the way in vaccinations should be commended. There's very little to lose - any potential negatives are heavily outweighed by positives.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

I don't think that the US would go as far as try and seize supplies, and probably what we'll see is something vague wrapped in a US flag but with no real impact. However it's a risk.

If anything it could slow down production in the US. It may be moved elsewhere if the manufacturers can't guarantee the ability to export.

Indestructable

Does anybody know how the UK are tracking who has received the vaccine? Is it linked to their PPS equivalent or a register or something else? Will they call back the patient on the 21st day for the 2nd jab? Did a bit of googling but couldn't find much.

That logistical challenge is where I fear the HSE may fall short.

Momentous day and can't help feeling a bit jealous looking across the border but we will get there shortly.

Duke of Url

Indestructable wrote: »

Does anybody know how the UK are tracking who has received the vaccine? Is it linked to their PPS equivalent or a register or something else? Will they call back the patient on the 21st day for the 2nd jab? Did a bit of googling but couldn't find much.

That logistical challenge is where I fear the HSE may fall short.

Momentous day and can't help feeling a bit jealous looking across the border but we will get there shortly.

When you get First Vac you receive a card stating the Date and Time of your second Vac

Marhay70

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I think any country who leads the way in vaccinations should be commended. There's very little to lose - any potential negatives are heavily outweighed by positives.

Sorry, can't agree with you there, it was simply an attempt at political recovery by a PM who has made such a huge fcuk up of the pandemic to date, but we'll argue the toss elsewhere.

marno21

Here we go:

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1336283483799490561

Looking forward to this getting underway. I am in the 2nd from last group so it will be sometime before I see one, but the comfort and security for those in the initial groups once they receive this and the population as a whole starts getting it will be wonderful.

SusanC10

marno21 wrote: »

Here we go:

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1336283483799490561

Looking forward to this getting underway. I am in the 2nd from last group so it will be sometime before I see one, but the comfort and security for those in the initial groups once they receive this and the population as a whole starts getting it will be wonderful.

Which Category do Adults with Special Needs (living with an elderly Parent) fit ?