COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

polesheep

Micky 32 wrote: »

I’m guessing that if you were on the panel we would have seen 17/5 :rolleyes:

Thankfully, the scientists on the panel don't make guesses. For my own part, I believe the Pfizer vaccine is the best news in years.

Irish Stones

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am very interested in the allergy issue of the vaccine . Could I ask you for a very quick translation of that part if you could ?

Of course you can ask me.
Unfrtunately the article is only fully available to subscribers (which I am not).

Heading: "The vaccine will protect us 15 months. No problems for those suffering from allergies"
Subheading: "Scientific projections from infectivologist Roberto Cauda and from former EMA head Guido Rasi "in the case of an allergy, some cortisone is enough to help"
Article: A shield that might last "at least 15 months". And that will allow us to keep the pandemic under control. Professor Roberto Cauda examines Covid Vaccine Phase 4...

Then the article fades into the subscribers-only access. I'm sorry.

Irish Stones

schmoo2k wrote: »

When the cat was asked if it had any known allergies what did it say?

The cat had the same type of vaccine done before, and didn't have any reaction. But on that occasion the vet agreed those were reactions to the vaccine and agreed not to use the same brand again.
The point, though, isn't if the cat told us anything about her allergies or ADR, the point is that severe reactions might show up 10 hours later, so waiting 15 minutes at the vaccinatation centres, under the expert eyes of a doctor, doesn't help much.

Irish Stones

Kerry25x wrote: »

I don't get your point about reactions showing later, that could happen regardless of where you get it done?

Maybe I haven't understood your sentence.
Are you asking me whether a reaction time is depending on where the jab is done? Well, of course I don't know that. I'm only saying that some reactions might show up later than the usual 15 minutes they ask you to wait before leaving.

nommm

https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/astraz/media-centre/articles/2020/developing-versatile-immunisation-programmes-against-covid-19-through-potential-vaccine-combinations.html

AstraZeneca now looking at possibility of combination of their vaccine with Russian one. Would be great of combinations of vaccines could be used. Makes logistics easier.

Also could be a sign AZ are worried that anti vector immunity is causing the lower efficacy in their jab.

iamwhoiam

Irish Stones wrote: »

Of course you can ask me.
Unfrtunately the article is only fully available to subscribers (which I am not).

Heading: "The vaccine will protect us 15 months. No problems for those suffering from allergies"
Subheading: "Scientific projections from infectivologist Roberto Cauda and from former EMA head Guido Rasi "in the case of an allergy, some cortisone is enough to help"
Article: A shield that might last "at least 15 months". And that will allow us to keep the pandemic under control. Professor Roberto Cauda examines Covid Vaccine Phase 4...

Then the article fades into the subscribers-only access. I'm sorry.

Thanks for trying anyway, the cortisone is interesting thank you

hmmm

This Sanofi news is not good - the EU had seen them as a bit of a banker.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/12/11/sanofi-suffers-major-setback-in-development-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/

There was a problem during their trials with how the vaccine was formulated, and they weren't seeing the results in older adults that they expected. Because they've had to go back and fix this, the expected availability date is now late-2021 rather than mid-2021.

Another issue is that as other vaccines are rolled out, they will find it more difficult to get people to agree to be part of a trial where they may receive a placebo. "Sanofi knows this and is proposing to the Food and Drug Administration that its Phase 2b trial compare its vaccine to one that is already authorized, not a placebo."

odyssey06

Irish Stones wrote: »

The cat had the same type of vaccine done before, and didn't have any reaction. But on that occasion the vet agreed those were reactions to the vaccine and agreed not to use the same brand again.
The point, though, isn't if the cat told us anything about her allergies or ADR, the point is that severe reactions might show up 10 hours later, so waiting 15 minutes at the vaccinatation centres, under the expert eyes of a doctor, doesn't help much.

Such allergic reactions usually occur within 15 minutes, so yes, in the vast majority of cases, waiting 15 minutes under observation is important.
It isn't going to pickup every outlier case.

Hmmzis

hmmm wrote: »

This Sanofi news is not good - the EU had seen them as a bit of a banker.
https://www.statnews.com/2020/12/11/sanofi-suffers-major-setback-in-development-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/

There was a problem during their trials with how the vaccine was formulated, and they weren't seeing the results in older adults that they expected. Because they've had to go back and fix this, the expected availability date is now late-2021 rather than mid-2021.

Another issue is that as other vaccines are rolled out, they will find it more difficult to get people to agree to be part of a trial where they may receive a placebo. "Sanofi knows this and is proposing to the Food and Drug Administration that its Phase 2b trial compare its vaccine to one that is already authorized, not a placebo."

Well, that's disappointing
The younger cohorts looked fine in phase 1.

They do have an mRNA candidate as well (MRT5500 - https://www.sanofi.com/en/media-room/press-releases/2020/2020-10-15-14-00-00) but I haven't seen any updates on it recently.

seamie78

while disappointing, it may in fact be good news to see some vaccines fail on the final hurdle, this might provide assurance to those on the fence that the vaccines are not being rushed and are being held to same high standards that apply to all medications

ShineOn7

Seen on Reddit

for those clamoring for the Oxford vaccine - those trials have not gone well. Numerous mistakes made in the study and a serious adverse event - and it hasn't been granted an EUA anywhere.

Thoughts?

Also;

Hypothetical question: let's say you're offered the Oxford or J&J one. Can we turn around and say "actually, you're grand. I'll wait for more Pfizer to be manufactured" ?

nommm

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Seen on Reddit



Thoughts?

Also;

Hypothetical question: let's say you're offered the Oxford or J&J one. Can we turn around and say "actually, you're grand. I'll wait for more Pfizer to be manufactured" ?

That comment on reddit is misguided. Trial is not yet finished so it cannot apply for EUA. Serious adverse event was concluded to not be related to vaccine by regulators and trial allowed to proceed.

I think its clear that although the trial is v messy, it is clearly quite effective. I think it will undoubtedly be granted an EUA, the trial in the US should have results early next year which should provide much cleaner results.

Not sure how much say we’ll get into which vaccine we get. It will be a matter of whats available. Do you think you’ll really want to wait once you see others going to concerts, holidays, generally going back to living their life with the vaccine.

eigrod

seamie78 wrote: »

while disappointing, it may in fact be good news to see some vaccines fail on the final hurdle, this might provide assurance to those on the fence that the vaccines are not being rushed and are being held to same high standards that apply to all medications

Sadly, I see it the other way around- those that need convincing will see it as proof that there’s a high risk - one failed so they must all be dodgy. And that’s if they even see them as different in the first place.

ShineOn7

nommm wrote: »

Do you think you’ll really want to wait once you see others going to concerts, holidays, generally going back to living their life with the vaccine.

Given a choice between waiting another month or two for a Pfizer one, I think I would

Not liking the Oxford data at all

stephenjmcd

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Seen on Reddit



Thoughts?

Also;

Hypothetical question: let's say you're offered the Oxford or J&J one. Can we turn around and say "actually, you're grand. I'll wait for more Pfizer to be manufactured" ?

Completely misguided comment on reddit there.

Full phase 3 data isn't completed yet.

In terms of EUA, they'll have to run a trial in the states for the FDA, they won't accept data from elsewhere. Latest indications were that nothing is currently impacting timeline for EMA and MHRA submissions.

As for the serious adverse event that couldn't be linked back to the vaccine and trials were allowed to continue.

While the initial data is noisy, its an effective safe vaccine and at the end of the day that's what it comes down to.

When approved if it were me assigning vaccines purely based on effiency and the needs of certain sections of population, I'd give Pfizer & Moderna to older population to start and Oxford /AstraZeneca to younger population while stocks are limited.

And no you wont be able to pick which one is given to you. It'll be vaccine or no vaccine, what one is given you is a clinical decision

Irish Stones

nommm wrote: »

Do you think you’ll really want to wait once you see others going to concerts, holidays, generally going back to living their life with the vaccine.

There's no guarantee that once you take the vaccine, you'll be able to go back to what might resemble a normal life within, say, a month.
You'll have to wait a green light anyway, that is when at least 60-70% of people has taken it, and this green light might turn on at the very end of 2021, if not later.

stephenjmcd

Irish Stones wrote: »

There's no guarantee that once you take the vaccine, you'll be able to go back to what might resemble a normal life within, say, a month.
You'll have to wait a green light anyway, that is when at least 60-70% of people has taken it, and this green light might turn on at the very end of 2021, if not later.

Who says restrictions will be relaxed once you take a vaccine? You need reduced cases and reduced pressure on the health service. That takes time to show an impact from a vaccine. If we started in say middle Jan, you might see a noticeable impact from say late Feb.

Restrictions will be relaxed well before 60-70% are vaccinated. Its foolish to suggest otherwise in my opinion.

The main aim is protecting the health service. When you've the vacination process for the vulnerable well underway and basically nearly done you'll have less pressure on the health service which means less restrictions.

zuutroy

Irish Stones wrote: »

There's no guarantee that once you take the vaccine, you'll be able to go back to what might resemble a normal life within, say, a month.
You'll have to wait a green light anyway, that is when at least 60-70% of people has taken it, and this green light might turn on at the very end of 2021, if not later.

Totally wrong. Once the hospitals empty out it will be virtually business as usual.

eigrod

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Who says restrictions will be relaxed once you take a vaccine? You need reduced cases and reduced pressure on the health service.

Restrictions will be relaxed well before 60-70% are vaccinated. Its foolish to suggest otherwise in my opinion.

The main aim is protecting the health service. When you've the vacination process for the vulnerable well underway and basically nearly done you'll have less pressure on the health service which means less restrictions.

Exactly. And those who fall in to any of the top 4 or 5 categories for vaccination who they haven’t got to yet will be told to restrict their movements until they have received the 2 shots. Those of us in the lower categories will be permitted to do most of what we could do last year, with caution.

stephenjmcd

eigrod wrote: »

Exactly. And those who fall in to any of the top 4 or 5 categories for vaccination who they haven’t got to yet will be told to restrict their movements until they have received the 2 shots. Those of us in the lower categories will be permitted to do most of what we could do last year, with caution.

Thats it.

The first few groupings cover an awful lot of people.

Protect the most at risk from death and needing hospital treatment first, and that's what will be done then you can gradually ease off, no big bang but very gradual.

Personally I'm in the 2nd last grouping and I'd expect to be living a fairly normal life by then and playing my part for the final push in getting the percentage vaccinated as high as possible. I don't expect to be offered it until September/October

Irish Stones

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Thanks for trying anyway, the cortisone is interesting thank you

I've been able to get hold of a longer portion of that article

It continues with:
"From field observations of the vaccine roll-out to the public we'll be able to find an immunity duration longer than 15 months, that is longer than the protection given by the annual flu vaccine.
Given these scientific projections on the level of antibodies triggered by the vaccine, we can forecast a positive outcome of the pandemic situation, and the level of immunisation will be determined through serological tests.
Moreover, those who suffer from some allergies won't be kept out of the vaccine roll-out. It will be required that the jab will be given under strict medical control and with cortisone medications ready at hand.
The vaccination is a medical duty, and a doctor is able to counter any possible side effect"

It is possible that the article is longer than this, but this is all I was able to find. Hope it helps.

eigrod

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Thats it.

The first few groupings cover an awful lot of people.

Protect the most at risk from death and needing hospital treatment first, and that's what will be done then you can gradually ease off, no big bang but very gradual.

Personally I'm in the 2nd last grouping and I'd expect to be living a fairly normal life by then and playing my part for the final push in getting the percentage vaccinated as high as possible. I don't expect to be offered it until September/October

I am also in 2nd last group.

Micky 32

Irish Stones wrote: »

There's no guarantee that once you take the vaccine, you'll be able to go back to what might resemble a normal life within, say, a month.
You'll have to wait a green light anyway, that is when at least 60-70% of people has taken it, and this green light might turn on at the very end of 2021, if not later.

It all depends really, of course it will be gradual. For example in my case. Once my family here get vaccinated and my family abroad get vaccinated ( and myself of course) i’ll be travelling back and forth again to see them regardless if 60-70% are vaccinated or not.

cj maxx

I have no symptoms, can I pay for a test with my health insurance?

Irish Stones

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Who says restrictions will be relaxed once you take a vaccine?

I was just replying a post who was asking whether someone would wait before taking the vaccine, once that they see that those who have taken it are free to attend events and travel.
I didn't imply anything else

seamie78

eigrod wrote: »

Sadly, I see it the other way around- those that need convincing will see it as proof that there’s a high risk - one failed so they must all be dodgy. And that’s if they even see them as different in the first place.

I suppose I see 2 groups not lining up for the vaccine, the die hards whom will use this to further entrench their views, but I don't think they will be persuaded matter what. But the other group those who actually read something other than facebook may be reassured by this

Irish Stones

zuutroy wrote: »

Totally wrong. Once the hospitals empty out it will be virtually business as usual.

The hospitals were empty already last summer, and we resumed a partial business as usual, with people moving a bit more, and we have seen what happened a few months later.
Having the hospitals empty isn't a green light to a normal life.

eigrod

Are there any figures being published on how many daily Covid vaccinations have been administered so far in NI ?

Micky 32

Irish Stones wrote: »

Having the hospitals empty isn't a green light to a normal life.

There was no vaccine last summer. Big difference. Are you looking for excuses for not going back to normal?

Irish Stones

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Personally I'm in the 2nd last grouping

Do you mean you are in group 14?
I don't if we have groups like yours over here, but if it were the case, I'll be in group 12 by just one year

stephenjmcd

eigrod wrote: »

Are there any figures being published on how many daily Covid vaccinations have been administered so far in NI ?

I don't believe so. Pretty sure their initial delivery was something like 12k doses or there abouts but not fully sure

Irish Stones

Micky 32 wrote: »

There was no vaccine last summer. Big difference. Are you looking for excuses for not going back to normal?

No, only that I can't be so optimistic as most of others are

schmoo2k

cj maxx wrote: »

I have no symptoms, can I pay for a test with my health insurance?

No

Van.Bosch

cj maxx wrote: »

I have no symptoms, can I pay for a test with my health insurance?

You can pay 99 yourself though

schmoo2k

Irish Stones wrote: »

The hospitals were empty already last summer, and we resumed a partial business as usual, with people moving a bit more, and we have seen what happened a few months later.
Having the hospitals empty isn't a green light to a normal life.

But the high risk folks will be vaccinated this time around, the daily infection numbers are liable to be higher next year but the hospitalisations should be way down.

Hector Savage

schmoo2k wrote: »

But the high risk folks will be vaccinated this time around, the daily infection numbers are liable to be higher next year but the hospitalisations should be way down.

They need to stop using daily case numbers as any metric, pointless at this stage.

Metrics should all be about hospitalisation rate

tom1ie

schmoo2k wrote: »

But the high risk folks will be vaccinated this time around, the daily infection numbers are liable to be higher next year but the hospitalisations should be way down.

but they wont?
what about immune compromised people?
kids (who arent allowed get the vaccine) who have low immune systems?

snotboogie

tom1ie wrote: »

but they wont?
what about immune compromised people?
kids (who arent allowed get the vaccine) who have low immune systems?

Small demographic, what percentage of the current hospitalizations are immune compromised children? Or immune comprised under 55 in general?

tom1ie

snotboogie wrote: »

Small demographic, what percentage of the current hospitalizations are immune compromised children? Or immune comprised under 55 in general?

point being 25% of the population are kids under 16.
they wont be vaccinated.
add in people who wont take it, immune compromised, pregnant women breastfeeding women, now you are up around 35-40% of the population.
we need approx 70% of the popul;ation to be infected/vaccinated to reach herd immunity.

AdamD

Irish Stones wrote: »

The hospitals were empty already last summer, and we resumed a partial business as usual, with people moving a bit more, and we have seen what happened a few months later.
Having the hospitals empty isn't a green light to a normal life.

What? Of course it is. I swear some people seem to want this to drag on longer than it should

Micky 32

AdamD wrote: »

What? Of course it is. I swear some people seem to want this to drag on longer than it should

The lockdown brigade are already filtering over here from the main thread looking for excuses to justify post vaccine restrictions.

Deeper Blue

Irish Stones wrote: »

The hospitals were empty already last summer, and we resumed a partial business as usual, with people moving a bit more, and we have seen what happened a few months later.
Having the hospitals empty isn't a green light to a normal life.

There was no vaccine in the summer so that comparison makes zero sense

tom1ie

AdamD wrote: »

What? Of course it is. I swear some people seem to want this to drag on longer than it should

even after everyone that is allowed take the vaccine, takes the vaccine, that still leaves at least 40% maybe more who wont have had the vaccine which means the virus wont be killed off.
if restrictions arent in place the virus still spreads among that 40% no?

Gael23

AdamD wrote: »

What? Of course it is. I swear some people seem to want this to drag on longer than it should

At the beginning of this there was no routine care being delivered in hospitals, only emergencies and Covid patients

Micky 32

tom1ie wrote: »

even after everyone that is allowed take the vaccine, takes the vaccine, that still leaves at least 40% maybe more who wont have had the vaccine which means the virus wont be killed off.
if restrictions arent in place the virus still spreads among that 40% no?

Well the people who can’t have it will have to be careful for a while. For the people who have it won’t be restricted. In my case i’ll certainly be back travelling again.

brisan

cj maxx wrote: »

I have no symptoms, can I pay for a test with my health insurance?

Are you absolutely sure you have no symptoms ?
Like 100% certain ?

tom1ie

Micky 32 wrote: »

Well the people who can’t have it will have to be careful for a while. For the people who have it won’t be restricted. In my case i’ll certainly be back travelling again.

so if you live in a house with someone who cant have the vaccine but you take the vaccine, and you know that covid is still spreading in the wild, you wont take precautions or adhear to restrictions?

Micky 32

tom1ie wrote: »

so if you live in a house with someone who cant have the vaccine but you take the vaccine, and you know that covid is still spreading in the wild, you wont take precautions or adhear to restrictions?

Firstly i don’t live in a house with someone that can’t have it, or do i know anyone that can’t have it. So no i won’t be adhering to any restrictions. Like i said i’ll be travelling again once inoculated. As the Tanaiste pointed out the pandemic will be over in 2021.

ZX7R

tom1ie wrote: »

even after everyone that is allowed take the vaccine, takes the vaccine, that still leaves at least 40% maybe more who wont have had the vaccine which means the virus wont be killed off.
if restrictions arent in place the virus still spreads among that 40% no?

No where in the eu commission public health in relation to the vaccination process and program does it say or intend to kill off virus.
There aiming for a 40 percent uptake and this appears to be sufficient in the process of eased restrictions.
Covid is here and here to stay whether we like it or not

Irish Stones

ZX7R wrote: »

Covid is here and here to stay whether we like it or not

Like all viruses and coronaviruses we have seen in the past centuries. They are still around us.