COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Hmmzis

Happy Friday everyone:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.09.20245175v1.full.pdf+html

The RBD mutants can go $&*% themselves (Fig 1d).

The T cell data is worth having a look at, it's among the most comprehensive studies I've seen so far on vaccine induced T cells.

To my eye the 30ug looks almost unnecessary at this point in time, the 10ug and 20ug doses don't look any different at the last two follow up points to the 30ug dose.

Edit: btw. this is the Pfizer/BNT vaccine.

stephenjmcd

Hmmzis wrote: »

Happy Friday everyone:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.09.20245175v1.full.pdf+html

The RBD mutants can go $&*% themselves (Fig 1d).

The T cell data is worth having a look at, it's among the most comprehensive studies I've seen so far on vaccine induced T cells.

To my eye the 30ug looks almost unnecessary at this point in time, the 10ug and 20ug doses don't look any different at the last two follow up points to the 30ug dose.

Edit: btw. this is the Pfizer/BNT vaccine.

Had a quick look through the New England journal yesterday, will take a look at this later tonight, but just on the NEJ it was very impressive.

Its an exceptional set of data that stands up to scrutiny. A really superb piece of science

Tom Mann Centuria

My 85 year old Uncle got the Pfizer jab in the UK today, and my aunt did too. No reactions in the short term, so hopefully they'll stay well.

tobefrank321

Has Oxford/AZ been authorised anywhere?

It feels like they are in no mans land at the moment. Talk of combining it with the Russian one but that would mean going back to the start of trials surely.

stephenjmcd

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Has Oxford/AZ been authorised anywhere?

It feels like they are in no mans land at the moment. Talk of combining it with the Russian one but that would mean going back to the start of trials surely.

Nope not yet. They haven't submitted final phase 3 data. MHRA have started getting data recently. EMA have a rolling review. Everything recently was preliminary data so they still had a way to go there yet.

That would be another arm of the trials, separate from what they would submit

is_that_so

Irish Stones wrote: »

The hospitals were empty already last summer, and we resumed a partial business as usual, with people moving a bit more, and we have seen what happened a few months later.
Having the hospitals empty isn't a green light to a normal life.

Having them empty of COVID patients is, for the hospital system. That's the first step in the process. As others have said, and depending where you are, we should see effects well before the end of Spring.

eigrod

A fool’s guide which I found interesting

https://twitter.com/scientistswanda/status/1335988328362090500?s=21

is_that_so

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Has Oxford/AZ been authorised anywhere?

It feels like they are in no mans land at the moment. Talk of combining it with the Russian one but that would mean going back to the start of trials surely.

There's already a UK proposal to do that with the Pfizer one.

tom1ie

Micky 32 wrote: »

Firstly i don’t live in a house with someone that can’t have it, or do i know anyone that can’t have it. So no i won’t be adhering to any restrictions. Like i said i’ll be travelling again once inoculated. As the Tanaiste pointed out the pandemic will be over in 2021.

So screw everyone else that can’t take the vaccine basically including people that could take will take the vaccine but live in fear of passing it on to a family member that is immuno Compromised? Is that it yeah?

Clonmel1000

tom1ie wrote: »

So screw everyone else that can’t take the vaccine basically including people that could take will take the vaccine but live in fear of passing it on to a family member that is immuno Compromised? Is that it yeah?

What’s your alternative? Another year like 2020? No thanks.

is_that_so

tom1ie wrote: »

So screw everyone else that can’t take the vaccine basically including people that could take will take the vaccine but live in fear of passing it on to a family member that is immuno Compromised? Is that it yeah?

These things will be worked out in due course. The list is out and they'll work their way though it. There may be subsequent strategies to deal with that scenario, for example by vaccinating those around them instead. When enough people get vaccinated, that risk will be all but gone.

tobefrank321

eigrod wrote: »

A fool’s guide which I found interesting

https://twitter.com/scientistswanda/status/1335988328362090500?s=21

Well I'll be taking it. And I'm already looking forward to the superhuman abilities that come from it.

Hector Savage

eigrod wrote: »

A fool’s guide which I found interesting

https://twitter.com/scientistswanda/status/1335988328362090500?s=21

Thanks a lot for that, that gives me confidence.

Maybe I should stay of twitter where they are talking about chips and Bill Gates wanting to kill me etc ..... :P

tom1ie

is_that_so wrote: »

These things will be worked out in due course. The list is out and they'll work their way though it. There may be subsequent strategies to deal with that scenario, for example by vaccinating those around them instead. When enough people get vaccinated, that risk will be all but gone.

At least 30% can’t be vaccinated?

arctictree

Anyone know if you can order the vaccine online from the UK?

cgc5483

arctictree wrote: »

Anyone know if you can order the vaccine online from the UK?

No.

Deeper Blue

tom1ie wrote: »

At least 30% can’t be vaccinated?

If there's very few people in hospital the restrictions will be lifted.

There'll always be people that can't get a vaccine.

Maybe some of those people will get sick, maybe they won't.

Either way the country and the world will move on.

That's the reality.

arctictree

arctictree wrote: »

Anyone know if you can order the vaccine online from the UK?

No and if you come across someone offering such a service steer well clear.

is_that_so

tom1ie wrote: »

At least 30% can’t be vaccinated?

Are you asking or telling me because I have no idea?

sabat

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

My 85 year old Uncle got the Pfizer jab in the UK today, and my aunt did too. No reactions in the short term, so hopefully they'll stay well.

"Short term"-how long is that? 2 hours?

Tom Mann Centuria

sabat wrote: »

"Short term"-how long is that? 2 hours?

They got it in the morning, not sure of exact time. Well over 2 hours by now though.

braychelsea

Did the taskforce release their rollout plan today or did it get delayed again

stephenjmcd

braychelsea wrote: »

Did the taskforce release their rollout plan today or did it get delayed again

Went to government today. Will be approved by cabinet Tuesday and then released to the public.

Still on schedule

scooby77

As vaccines roll out in some countries here's a real life query:
A close family member ( mid 30s, perfect health, no allergies, hasn't had covid she knows of, has had few pcrs for different reasons) is cabin crew ( not economy) with Emirates. She's due back flying shortly after period voluntary unpaid leave.
Sinopharm is now available free to all residents of Dubai- she qualifies. She has never been concerned about Covid, but as returning to work approaches, it has crossed her mind. She asked my advice re getting vaccine.
I'm pro vaccine, and think Chinese vaccine probably as safe as any(point 1). My main concern is that down the road Emirates might insist on staff taking a vaccine they provide...which could be different one...no testing done on interaction between different vaccines...but some say medically not advised, could possibly have serious consequences.(point 2) Though emirates have given no indication of a vaccine policy yet.
All opinions on either point welcome! Thanks in advance!

schmoo2k

tom1ie wrote: »

but they wont?
what about immune compromised people?
kids (who arent allowed get the vaccine) who have low immune systems?

No difference to whats happening now - until the community spread is low enough that they feel safe to go back to normal, they will need to be very careful.

schmoo2k

tom1ie wrote: »

At least 30% can’t be vaccinated?

...but they can get natural immunity...

schmoo2k

tom1ie wrote: »

So screw everyone else that can’t take the vaccine basically including people that could take will take the vaccine but live in fear of passing it on to a family member that is immuno Compromised? Is that it yeah?

Currently the entire population is doing that (well the sensible ones anyway), are you suggesting because you can't go back to normal, that everyone else shouldn't?

Micky 32

tom1ie wrote: »

So screw everyone else that can’t take the vaccine basically including people that could take will take the vaccine but live in fear of passing it on to a family member that is immuno Compromised? Is that it yeah?

When enough of the population take the vaccine the risk of the immuno compromised getting the virus will dramatically drop. So you’re proposing restrictions indefinately then? How have the immuno compromised managed to date with the flu’s that go around?

speckle

Micky 32 wrote: »

When enough of the population take the vaccine the risk of the immuno compromised getting the virus will dramatically drop. So you’re proposing restrictions indefinately then? How have the immuno compromised managed to date with the flu’s that go around?

Pretty good ..thankyou for asking.. some of us live on the edge alot of the time but we try... and often succeed to live life fully.. sometimes more so than the general population as we have a sense of our own mortality.
I think though.. when it WAS a novel disease at first we had much trepidation and some still do..

I would have been more worried for those with young family high risk members or people with diabetes and heart issues who though they had their conditions under control and never expected a bump in the road such as this.

I speak only for myself and those I know who want some sort of normality back. Restrictions have helped but also hindered us at times...others may have different views and should also be listened too.

Hmmzis

scooby77 wrote: »

As vaccines roll out in some countries here's a real life query:
A close family member ( mid 30s, perfect health, no allergies, hasn't had covid she knows of, has had few pcrs for different reasons) is cabin crew ( not economy) with Emirates. She's due back flying shortly after period voluntary unpaid leave.
Sinopharm is now available free to all residents of Dubai- she qualifies. She has never been concerned about Covid, but as returning to work approaches, it has crossed her mind. She asked my advice re getting vaccine.
I'm pro vaccine, and think Chinese vaccine probably as safe as any(point 1). My main concern is that down the road Emirates might insist on staff taking a vaccine they provide...which could be different one...no testing done on interaction between different vaccines...but some say medically not advised, could possibly have serious consequences.(point 2) Though emirates have given no indication of a vaccine policy yet.
All opinions on either point welcome! Thanks in advance!

If she wants to take the vaccine she should take it. It'll be a long time before private companies get their hands on doses.

charlie14

Hector Savage wrote: »

Thanks a lot for that, that gives me confidence.

Maybe I should stay of twitter where they are talking about chips and Bill Gates wanting to kill me etc ..... :P

Half of those on Twitter that will not take a vaccine because of chips would if you offered them a bit of fish with it.

Approved User Assesment

Pfizer says it will continue to collect safety and long-term outcomes data from participants for two years.
I.e. Phase 4/5 Trials.

Is 2yrs really considered long-tern? When someone says long-term safety monitoring, would imagine 5-10yrs as a period of long-term assessment.

Fair enough if you take a bad curry, your bowels will notify you in around 8hrs, but that's a different kettle of boiled fish.

Hmmzis

Approved User Assesment wrote: »

Pfizer says it will continue to collect safety and long-term outcomes data from participants for two years.
I.e. Phase 4/5 Trials.

Is 2yrs really considered long-tern? When someone says long-term safety monitoring, would imagine 5-10yrs as a period of long-term assessment.

Fair enough if you take a bad curry, your bowels will notify you in around 8hrs, but that's a different kettle of boiled fish.

Between a year and two is standard practice.

Approved User Assesment

Hmmzis wrote: »

Between a year and two is standard practice.

Grand I'll check back in during early 2023 to see how things are progressing, and another 2yrs for each subsequent variant or mutated release.

One area that hasn't been tested in any way is that of effects on e.g.Fertility. Anyone thinking of starting a family is advised not to take these vaccines. Also there were zero pregnant ladies studies in any of these trials.

Equally Sperm counts may also be worth measuring out of interest for any chaps taking dual stage or multi-variant releases or manufactured types after these 2yrs.

Just a thought.

joseywhales

I'd be more worried about the effects of drinking and the noxious gasses from exhaust pipes for your sperm count issues

charlie14

Approved User Assesment wrote: »

Grand I'll check back in during early 2023 to see how things are progressing, and another 2yrs for each subsequent variant or mutated release.

One area that hasn't been tested in any way is that of effects on e.g.Fertility. Anyone thinking of starting a family is advised not to take these vaccines. Also there were zero pregnant ladies studies in any of these trials.

Equally Sperm counts may also be worth measuring out of interest for any chaps taking dual stage or multi-variant releases or manufactured types after these 2yrs.

Just a thought.

Pfizer have that covered as well.
One little blue pill and you`ll be, in the words of Patrick Kavanagh, " Fit to bull cows"

Deeper Blue

That didn't take long

US approves Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, with first jab 'to be given in less than 24 hours'

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-vaccine-recommended-for-approval-by-us-government-advisory-panel-12157588

JacksonHeightsOwn

El Sueño wrote: »

That didn't take long

US approves Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine, with first jab 'to be given in less than 24 hours'

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-pfizer-vaccine-recommended-for-approval-by-us-government-advisory-panel-12157588

You'd imagine the EMA will follow suit fairly quickly, hopefully anyway.

conor_mc

chrisbonnie wrote: »

You'd imagine the EMA will follow suit fairly quickly, hopefully anyway.

The EMA will still take its time and do it’s own due diligence, I don’t think it’s under the same political pressure. Societal pressure, yes of course, but not political pressure. I mean, Trump’s Chief of Staff allegedly threatened to fire the FDA head if he didn’t approve by close of play Friday. That wreaks of authoritarianism, and that’s something that the German ruling classes in particular would rail against. They’ve seen that playbook and it’s devastating effects before unfortunately.

The other buffoon just needed a jolly good, chippy, tippitty-top, good news story.... before driving his lemmings.... off a cliff.... on Dec 31st.

JacksonHeightsOwn

conor_mc wrote: »

The EMA will still take its time and do it’s own due diligence, I don’t think it’s under the same political pressure. Societal pressure, yes of course, but not political pressure. I mean, Trump’s Chief of Staff allegedly threatened to fire the FDA head if he didn’t approve by close of play Friday. That wreaks of authoritarianism, and that’s something that the German ruling classes in particular would rail against. They’ve seen that playbook and it’s devastating effects before unfortunately.

The other buffoon just needed a jolly good, chippy, tippitty-top, good news story.... before driving his lemmings.... off a cliff.... on Dec 31st.

You're probably not wrong there.

Henryq.

Was UK approval politically driven

Thought they were independent

schmoo2k

Approved User Assesment wrote: »

Grand I'll check back in during early 2023 to see how things are progressing, and another 2yrs for each subsequent variant or mutated release.

One area that hasn't been tested in any way is that of effects on e.g.Fertility. Anyone thinking of starting a family is advised not to take these vaccines. Also there were zero pregnant ladies studies in any of these trials.

Equally Sperm counts may also be worth measuring out of interest for any chaps taking dual stage or multi-variant releases or manufactured types after these 2yrs.

Just a thought.

1. I don't believe the fertility advisory is real, do you have a link?
2. The pregnant ladies trial is going to start shortly and it is clearly documented that if your pregnant you should not get the vaccine until such a time it has been tested (assuming the testing is positive).

conor_mc

Henryq. wrote: »

Was UK approval politically driven

Thought they were independent

First out the door... at best it was politically convenient given the Brexit car crash as a backdrop. To be fair, that’s just my opinion.

ACitizenErased

I’d be very surprised if the EMA didn’t issue approval before Christmas. Gotta get moving.

hmmm

Are we ready to start vaccinating people immediately? I'm hearing a lot of news about plans being delivered and what we "could" do - have any of these plans been signed off? The EMA have informed us what the latest date they will sign off is, but not the earliest.

We were told previously by some commentators that these plans could not be finalised because they were waiting to see the profile of the vaccines. The news reports I'm reading today is debating who could administer the shots, talks about involving retired people, talking about setting up vaccination hubs etc. None of these things could not have been decided a month ago.

I hope the Government & HSE appreciate that there will be uproar if we are not in a position to start deploying vaccines at the same speed as other countries.

stephenjmcd

hmmm wrote: »

Are we ready to start vaccinating people immediately? I'm hearing a lot of news about plans being delivered and what we "could" do - have any of these plans been signed off? The EMA have informed us what the latest date they will sign off is, but not the earliest.

We were told previously by some commentators that these plans could not be finalised because they were waiting to see the profile of the vaccines. The news reports I'm reading today is debating who could administer the shots, talks about involving retired people, talking about setting up vaccination hubs etc. None of these things could not have been decided a month ago.

I hope the Government & HSE appreciate that there will be uproar if we are not in a position to start deploying vaccines at the same speed as other countries.

From what I've read today they've said the plans are finalised, they got sent to gov last night and will be approved at tuesdays cabinet meeting

Van.Bosch

stephenjmcd wrote: »

From what I've read today they've said the plans are finalised, they got sent to gov last night and will be approved at tuesdays cabinet meeting

Are there any vaccines in Ireland or can they not be shipped until EMA approves?

Marhay70

Just another example of the high standards to be expected from the HSE.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40189284.html

Hmmzis

Marhay70 wrote: »

Just another example of the high standards to be expected from the HSE.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40189284.html

To be fair, the initial fear was that we could run out of them. Turned out in a lot of cases putting people on vents made matters worse, high flow O2 and CPAP yielded better results.

Henryq.

hmmm wrote: »

Are we ready to start vaccinating people immediately? I'm hearing a lot of news about plans being delivered and what we "could" do - have any of these plans been signed off? The EMA have informed us what the latest date they will sign off is, but not the earliest.

We were told previously by some commentators that these plans could not be finalised because they were waiting to see the profile of the vaccines. The news reports I'm reading today is debating who could administer the shots, talks about involving retired people, talking about setting up vaccination hubs etc. None of these things could not have been decided a month ago.

I hope the Government & HSE appreciate that there will be uproar if we are not in a position to start deploying vaccines at the same speed as other countries.

Seems to be a constant stream of vaccine soundbytes from the government

It's like someone in government decided it's best to say something new everyday about the vaccine