COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

seamus

funnydoggy wrote: »

Fingers crossed. It's a wise move for PR to be honest.

Even from a public health perspective. You never know what might happen - manufacturing issues, storage issues, traffic accident, air accident, terror attack - that could destroy or delay batches from arriving.

If a batch can be lost, but you can still say, "It's OK, we're still on schedule", people will stay calm. If a batch was, for example, to be lost because someone blew up a truck coming out of Belgium and populations had to be told that the programme was set back by 3 months as a result, that's the kind of thing that can lead to riots, destabilise democracies and cause massive outbreaks.

ShineOn7

Headline

FDA finds Moderna COVID-19 vaccine highly effective but points out Bell's Palsy cases

Versus article

However, four cases of Bell's Palsy were found among the trial participants- three among the vaccinated group and one in the placebo group. While the report concluded that these instances were not enough to prove any link to the vaccine, the authority called for monitoring for such cases in individuals receiving the vaccine.

https://gulfnews.com/world/americas/fda-finds-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-highly-effective-but-points-out-bells-palsy-cases-1.1608116485618

funnydoggy

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Can't agree with you here (and I usually do on most things)

It smacks of spin doctor nonsense. A vaccine to strangle a pandemic shouldn't be a PR exercise

Good points! Why is everything so off with Irish politics..

Neamhshuntasach

AdamD wrote: »

Which countries? I've travelled quite a lot and never been asked for proof of a vaccine. Not saying it won't happen but it is a bit of an alien concept

I've had to show proof of yellow fever vaccination when going into Brazil, Paraguay, Bolivia, French Guinea and Guyana. All when travelling over land. Didnt have to show when I flew into Brazil though. Ive also had to show for a number of African countries. Both land and air borders. Was advised to have proof for Asia. But never asked there. Neither land or airport border checks.

funnydoggy

What's the craic here? I've seen ivermectin pop up loads over the past few months with great potential.

odyssey06

funnydoggy wrote: »

What's the craic here? I've seen ivermectin pop up loads over the past few months with great potential.

Was discussed on this thread, it may be of some benefit but it's not a game changer based on small early studies.
A 5-day course of ivermectin treatment showed faster SARS-CoV-2 virus clearance compared to the placebo arm (9 vs.13 days; P = 0.02).
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115596214#post115596214

funnydoggy

odyssey06 wrote: »

Was discussed on this thread, it may be of some benefit but it's not a game changer based on small early studies.
A 5-day course of ivermectin treatment showed faster SARS-CoV-2 virus clearance compared to the placebo arm (9 vs.13 days; P = 0.02).
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=115596214#post115596214

Thanks odyssey06

ixoy

ixoy wrote: »

Yep, except of course this time - unlike before - we'll be able to make comparisons with all the other EU countries who all start on the same date. Be interesting to see if they fall behind, what excuses they try to weasel their way out (if they even bother).

Why assume the worst. On most measures at the moment we are outperforming all of the EU

seamus

Looks like that surge of GP referrals on Monday did indeed herald an increase.

474 positive out of 13118. 3.61%. 7-day now 2.9%.

Pros: Wednesdays are often bad and we still need more data to establish the nature of the new trend
Cons: The trend is upward one way or another

Edit: Sorry wrong thread!

hmmm

funnydoggy wrote: »

What's the craic here? I've seen ivermectin pop up loads over the past few months with great potential.

The miracle cure crowd have moved on from Hydroxychloroquine to Ivermectin. If you can convince everyone there is a miracle cure, then reopening everything makes sense. The first use I heard of it for Covid was in Brazil and other parts of South America, where people were pretty desperate for a cure as their governments were doing feck all to slow the spread.

The evidence is mixed at best - very like HCQ at the beginning, some hints it might be effective but nothing spectacular.

ACitizenErased

Vaccination tracker, similar to worldometer:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

BryanMartin21

https://www.thejournal.ie/nphet-advice-covid-vaccine-5301782-Dec2020/

Advice to NPHET on vaccine uptake: Build trust and consensus rather than enforcement

In advice issued to NPHET after reviewing international evidence, Hiqa said that the campaign to vaccinate Irish people should be largely based on consensus rather than penalties and enforcement.

Hiqa also stressed in its advice that potential barriers to equitable access to vaccines should be minimised and said that, given the unique situation of Covid-19, evidence from other vaccines such as seasonal flu is likely to have limited applicability to the situation we’re in now in terms of uptake, preference and behaviours.

During a meeting of its Covid-19 expert advisory group, Hiqa said: “It was noted that the majority of individuals do not have an inherent bias for or against a vaccine, but need to be assured and informed in terms of the evidence for potential benefit or harm relevant to them or their family.

There was agreement among [group] members that any policy aiming to maximise uptake of the Covid-19 vaccine needs to focus on trust, communication and knowledge. There is a need for communication to reassure the public of the process of vaccination approval by the EMA. While timelines have been shortened, processes have been carried out in parallel rather than sequentially and are robust. All vaccines, including the new Covid-19 vaccines, undergo the same rigorous evaluation process by regulatory authorities.

Hiqa’s advice also pinpointed the importance of healthcare workers in this process.

It said that in advance of any vaccination programme, healthcare workers should be provided with the necessary information for them to make informed decisions for themselves and also act as a trusted source of information for others.

Key figures within local communities, such as GPs, pharmacists, and religious and sports leaders were also pinpointed as important to provide with evidence-based information to help with engagement with the community.

Reasonable and common sense to a lay observer like myself.

ShineOn7

funnydoggy wrote: »

Good points! Why is everything so off with Irish politics..

I know, the mind boggles

It's been like this since the Charlie Haughey days. And maybe even before

I wonder, in this case, how much effect the competitive nature between EU countries on this in doing it right will affect Meehole & Co

Mehole strikes me as someone who couldn't care less if Ireland is last in Europe to vaccinate it's country, Whereas Leo is a whole different story.

His constant eye on self interest PR will want Ireland to be among the best in the EU at the roll-out

I'd rather Varadkar as Taoiseach for the roll-out right now. And this is the same eejit that injected Mean Girls quotes into his Covid speeches for a bet

What a fcuking country all the same

funnydoggy

hmmm wrote: »

The miracle cure crowd have moved on from Hydroxychloroquine to Ivermectin. If you can convince everyone there is a miracle cure, then reopening everything makes sense. The first use I heard of it for Covid was in Brazil and other parts of South America, where people were pretty desperate for a cure as their governments were doing feck all to slow the spread.

The evidence is mixed at best - very like HCQ at the beginning, some hints it might be effective but nothing spectacular.

Thanks hmmm. Always take these videos with a grain of salt, but I did see more positives with ivermectin than HCQ or remdesivir so was confused.

Micky 32

Dr Scally making the RTE app headline :

“Public health expert Dr Gabriel Scally has said that the Irish and UK governments should ask families to postpone family gatherings this Christmas to the summer solstice in June.

As an incentive for people to keep their distance from families over the coming holiday period, he said told RTÉ's Today with Claire Byrne that two extra bank holidays should be offered in June 2021.

By then, he said, the vaccine rollout will have helped enormously.“

He seems optimistic about the vaccine roll out by the summer at least!

funnydoggy

ShineOn7 wrote: »

I know, the mind boggles

It's been like this since the Charlie Haughey days. And maybe even before

I wonder, in this case, how much effect the competitive nature between EU countries on this in doing it right will affect Meehole & Co

Mehole strikes me as someone who couldn't care less if Ireland is last in Europe to vaccinate it's country, Whereas Leo is a whole different story.

His constant eye on self interest PR will want Ireland to be among the best in the EU at the roll-out

I'd rather Varadkar as Taoiseach for the roll-out right now. And this is the same eejit that injected Mean Girls quotes into his Covid speeches for a bet

What a fcuking country all the same

Great post.

I've not laughed that hard in a while. Spot on

hmmm

funnydoggy wrote: »

Thanks hmmm. Always take these videos with a grain of salt, but I did see more positives with ivermectin than HCQ or remdesivir so was confused.

If it is effective then that would be great, but the way modern science tests this is through placebo-controlled trials - not anecdotes or papers which talk about success in treating small numbers of people. HCQ was thought to be helpful way back when after some small tests, but the larger trials showed it is possibly slightly more harmful than doing nothing.

ShineOn7

A Covid vaccination tracker https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Look at what country is the only one in blue

We need to get the fcuking finger out tbh

Deenie78

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Vaccination tracker, similar to worldometer:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Is it really sad that I'm excited to see all the countries start to fill in with colour?!!

marno21

Scotland now have 0.33% of their population vaccinated according to that tracker, on a pro rata basis that would be equal to roughly 16,000 in Ireland.

For reference, the first 6 of our categories total 815,000

1. Over 65s nursing homes (30,000)
2. Frontline healthcare workers (95,000)
3. Over 70s (425,000)
4. Other healthcare workers (30,000)
5. 65-69 year olds (210,000)
6. Workers eseential to vaccine rollout (25,000)
7. High risk 18-64 year olds (165,000)
8. 18-64 year olds in overcrowded settings (90,000)
9. High risk key workers (160,000)
10. Education workers (100,000)
11. 55-64 year olds (510,000)
12. Other key workers (395,000)
13. All 18-54 year olds (1,350,000)
14. Pregnant women & children (1,250,000)

Source: twitter.com/RachelLavin/status/1338484785367408640/photo/1

ACitizenErased

Someone can correct me on this but I thought the EU rollout was going to be proportionally done?

The Taoiseach said today we’re going to have maybe 2 deliveries before year end, each of which are ~5000 doses. That’s about 2000 per million.

France announced today they expect 1.2 million doses by year end, the equivalent of us receiving 90,000 doses.

What’s the craic with that?

Cork2021

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Someone can correct me on this but I thought the EU rollout was going to be proportionally done?

The Taoiseach said today we’re going to have maybe 2 deliveries before year end, each of which are ~5000 doses. That’s about 2000 per million.

France announced today they expect 1.2 million doses by year end, the equivalent of us receiving 90,000 doses.

What’s the craic with that?

I think there’s underplaying going on here as per usual. Don’t get our hopes up kind of rhetoric

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Someone can correct me on this but I thought the EU rollout was going to be proportionally done?

The Taoiseach said today we’re going to have maybe 2 deliveries before year end, each of which are ~5000 doses. That’s about 2000 per million.

France announced today they expect 1.2 million doses by year end, the equivalent of us receiving 90,000 doses.

What’s the craic with that?

He must have it wrong but the EU rollout isn't directly proportionate to population, the agreement indicated an allowance to be made based on the risk population of a country, so countries with more older people will get a higher share. Wouldn't explain the difference above though.

That looks like a total of 8 million for the EU initially, not an insignificant amount but I was hoping for more to be honest. Will be disappointed if we haven't offered a first dose to nursing homes and frontline medical staff by end of January.

Henryq.

Could I get the vaccine now if I want , I'm a UK citizen?

Would i be better to travel or wait here?

Stark

Henryq. wrote: »

Could I get the vaccine now if I want , I'm a UK citizen?

Would i be better to travel or wait here?

UK are also operating a similar priority queue so probably not going to make much of a difference if you get it there or here

Gael23

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Someone can correct me on this but I thought the EU rollout was going to be proportionally done?

The Taoiseach said today we’re going to have maybe 2 deliveries before year end, each of which are ~5000 doses. That’s about 2000 per million.

France announced today they expect 1.2 million doses by year end, the equivalent of us receiving 90,000 doses.

What’s the craic with that?

It’s going to take years at that rate

Dickie10

Micky 32 wrote: »

Dr Scally making the RTE app headline :

“Public health expert Dr Gabriel Scally has said that the Irish and UK governments should ask families to postpone family gatherings this Christmas to the summer solstice in June.

As an incentive for people to keep their distance from families over the coming holiday period, he said told RTÉ's Today with Claire Byrne that two extra bank holidays should be offered in June 2021.

By then, he said, the vaccine rollout will have helped enormously.“

He seems optimistic about the vaccine roll out by the summer at least!

have you a link?

Thats quite a quote from a medic, all the rest are saying it will be winter 2021 before any normality. to say he would endorse 2 bank holidays as early as june 21 is amazingly upbeat or just realistic. I have a feeling it would absolutly kill the tony and co crew to see the like of galway races back on even in 2022 or cheltenham 2022 at full capacity and all the antics that go with it!

Micky 32

Dickie10 wrote: »

have you a link?

Thats quite a quote from a medic, all the rest are saying it will be winter 2021 before any normality. to say he would endorse 2 bank holidays as early as june 21 is amazingly upbeat or just realistic. I have a feeling it would absolutly kill the tony and co crew to see the like of galway races back on even in 2022 or cheltenham 2022 at full capacity and all the antics that go with it!

My gut feeling would be the last quarter of 2021. I don’t mind once it’s the end in sight. I see the tanaiste giving sound bites of another 6 months of restrictions, maybe until May.

For some reason i can’t link it on my phone but you’ll find it on the RTE news app.

ACitizenErased

Germany beginning vaccinations Dec 27th according to AFP

Henryq.

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Germany beginning vaccinations Dec 27th according to AFP

As long as they don't invade anyone..

Gael23

Dickie10 wrote: »

have you a link?

Thats quite a quote from a medic, all the rest are saying it will be winter 2021 before any normality. to say he would endorse 2 bank holidays as early as june 21 is amazingly upbeat or just realistic. I have a feeling it would absolutly kill the tony and co crew to see the like of galway races back on even in 2022 or cheltenham 2022 at full capacity and all the antics that go with it!

I think when other countries go back to normal in the summer it will force the government to override Holohan

funnydoggy

Gael23 wrote: »

I think when other countries go back to normal in the summer it will force the government to override Holohan

To do what? I'm confused. Once we go back to normality, there'll be no need for NPHET anway.

Gael23

funnydoggy wrote: »

To do what? I'm confused. Once we go back to normality, there'll be no need for NPHET anway.

Holohan will want to remove restrictions in the slowest way possible but when other countries are doing it much quicker that will put pressure on the government to speed up

Le Bruise

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Vaccination tracker, similar to worldometer:
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Bookmarked!:)

Henryq.

Henryq. wrote: »

As long as they don't invade anyone..

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Vaccine

Busi_Girl08

Asked this in the main threaad but thought it would be better to check here.

I'm trying to get through to RocDoc, does anyone know for sure if their Express LAMP tests give same-day results at the weekends too, or is it still the next working day? (ie. if I get the test on Saturday, will I get the result on Saturday?)

I've no symptoms or anything and am not a close contact, but my parents were asking me to see about getting a test before I go from Dublin to Limerick to see them on Sunday.

Stheno

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/17/pfizer-vaccine-fda-says-extra-doses-in-vials-can-be-used-potentially-expanding-us-supply

Guardian reporting that in the US, they have found that some of the multidose vials which should contain 5 standard doses, actually contain up to 7 standard doses and the FDA are advising that all viable doses be used

Means up to 40% more doses available.

polesheep

Stheno wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/17/pfizer-vaccine-fda-says-extra-doses-in-vials-can-be-used-potentially-expanding-us-supply

Guardian reporting that in the US, they have found that some of the multidose vials which should contain 5 standard doses, actually contain up to 7 standard doses and the FDA are advising that all viable doses be used

Means up to 40% more doses available.

Half doses accidentally administered instead of full doses and now vials that should contain five doses actually contain seven, but this hasn't been rushed. I'm glad I'm well down the list.

Stheno

polesheep wrote: »

Half doses accidentally administered instead of full doses and now vials that should contain five doses actually contain seven, but this hasn't been rushed. I'm glad I'm well down the list.

If you read the article you would have seen that it's not uncommon for there to be extra doses in multidose vials?

seamus

polesheep wrote: »

Half doses accidentally administered instead of full doses and now vials that should contain five doses actually contain seven, but this hasn't been rushed. I'm glad I'm well down the list.

Overfilled vials is standard practice. When the dose is being extracted from the vial, the volume is eyeballed by the doctor/nurse on the side of the syringe. It's very accurate, but it's still eyeballed. So a 5ml dose might actually be 5.034ml extracted by the nurse. This is OK, the margin for error has been accounted for in the trials.

If the vial contains exactly 25ml, then the person getting the last dose has a risk of being undermedicated.

So they just make sure vials are filled with at least 25ml. It's then stated to contain five doses, and the practitioner knows to throw it away when five doses are done, regardless of how much is left in the bottle.

In this case the FDA is saying that the practitioner is allowed to attempt to extract extra doses from the bottle. If they get a full 5ml dose, great. If not, they dump the vial (and syringe) and start again.

40% extra doses is very optimistic. Probably be closer to 10-20% in practice.

funnydoggy

Gael23 wrote: »

Holohan will want to remove restrictions in the slowest way possible but when other countries are doing it much quicker that will put pressure on the government to speed up

Ah, I gotcha now. Agreed!

D.Q

Stheno wrote: »

If you read the article you would have seen that it's not uncommon for there to be extra doses in multidose vials?

Well there's your first incorrect assumption for that sort of person.

It's headlines, hysteria and histrionics, that's their whole M.O

Marhay70

From my days in manufacturing I remember it was always difficult to guarantee what the level of fill was for any machine, this led, indirectly, to the introduction of the small "e" symbol on bottles, which indicates the average level of fill on a given day.
It was common to calculate and budget for excess usage of any product and orders were usually sent to production for anything up to 5% volume over and above the expected fill run, depending on viscosity etc.
Technology will have improved the process since then but I imagine there will still be allowances made.

stephenjmcd

Interesting

https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1339525459864936450?s=19

Stheno

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Interesting

https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1339525459864936450?s=19

Trying to put pressure on member states to get 2ith the programme?

seamus

Very interesting.

Looks like the EMA have told the Commission via back channels that it will definitely be approved on the 21st. I imagine we'll see the commission arrange an emergency meeting for the same day with an eye to EU-wide approval that day or the 22nd.

I wonder did Ursula brief the 27 member states about these dates or has Micháel been caught on the hop? This message coming from the EU President directly rather than rumours and leaks within the member states is far better, but it's an interesting departure from the usual.

Widescreen

Great news! Hopefully the figure of 2,500 will improve quickly as that isn't even a drop in the ocean.

UK are up towards 200,00 at least in no time. I know they are a bigger country, but still, our people need to put the foot down now on this vaccine programme. We can't stick this for much longer, especially as they have put loads of people at unnecessary risk with the Christmas strategy.

ixoy

Will the HSE jab one person on the 29th and then claim they've met the target after which they can take their time..

I would be concerned as to the level of red tape that the IT system might introduce and hope they're not going to await its completion before pushing ahead.

Deenie78

It would be crazy to wait for the IT system to be ready - start a feckin spreadsheet and get this show on the road!! (I'm half joking)

Marhay70

Deenie78 wrote: »

It would be crazy to wait for the IT system to be ready - start a feckin spreadsheet and get this show on the road!! (I'm half joking)

They'll have to clear out the Kardex system first.