COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

ixoy

ixoy wrote: »

Will the HSE jab one person on the 29th and then claim they've met the target after which they can take their time..

I would be concerned as to the level of red tape that the IT system might introduce and hope they're not going to await its completion before pushing ahead.

Didn't they already say they wont wait for the IT system if it is not ready

funnydoggy

I could create a Python script to create a file and write/append patient details to it, and email it to Paul Reid if he wants...

Cut out the need for a team of devs. This first year software dev student can do it :pac: :pac:

I could even add a needle emoji in the header for the craic.

/joking in case anyone thinks I'm serious.. never know, this is the internet after all..

ixoy

Deleted User wrote: »

Didn't they already say they wont wait for the IT system if it is not ready

Did they? I did a high level skim of it and don't recall. Certainly, I imagine they'll want it for the bigger phases in place.
The contract itself is out with IBM and Salesforce and I imagine it'll need some major fleshing out, especially with the usual trickery around GDPR and all the edge cases these things seem to find.

stephenjmcd

Deliveries to start on 26th December from manufacturing sites in Germany and Belgium.

After that its just about how long it takes to transport into country and then distribute

ShineOn7

In pictures: How the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine works

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/in-pictures-how-the-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine-works-1.4436433

PS: did the Irish Times lift this entire article from the New York Times without linking to the original?

They mention them at the end of it, but I thought legally they had to give the URL to the original article

polesheep

Stheno wrote: »

If you read the article you would have seen that it's not uncommon for there to be extra doses in multidose vials?

40% overfill is not common. It's by no means a big deal and I wasn't trying to imply that it is, however, it indicates things being done in a rush. That's possibly acceptable to most people given the circumstances, but the constant denial that there has been a rush is silly. As I said, I'm happy enough to be down the list.

ShineOn7

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Deliveries to start on 26th December from manufacturing sites in Germany and Belgium.

After that its just about how long it takes to transport into country and then distribute

Ireland?

And how many?

Sorry, thread is moving fast today. A good sign

polesheep

seamus wrote: »

Overfilled vials is standard practice. When the dose is being extracted from the vial, the volume is eyeballed by the doctor/nurse on the side of the syringe. It's very accurate, but it's still eyeballed. So a 5ml dose might actually be 5.034ml extracted by the nurse. This is OK, the margin for error has been accounted for in the trials.

If the vial contains exactly 25ml, then the person getting the last dose has a risk of being undermedicated.

So they just make sure vials are filled with at least 25ml. It's then stated to contain five doses, and the practitioner knows to throw it away when five doses are done, regardless of how much is left in the bottle.

In this case the FDA is saying that the practitioner is allowed to attempt to extract extra doses from the bottle. If they get a full 5ml dose, great. If not, they dump the vial (and syringe) and start again.

40% extra doses is very optimistic. Probably be closer to 10-20% in practice.

Not by 40%.

polesheep

D.Q wrote: »

Well there's your first incorrect assumption for that sort of person.

It's headlines, hysteria and histrionics, that's their whole M.O

This says a lot more about you than it does me.

stephenjmcd

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Ireland?



And how many?



Sorry, thread is moving fast today. A good sign

Everywhere. Once approved by EMA, EU commission are saying deliveries to leave factories on 26th.

How many all depends on allocation. Small numbers id say

seamus

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Deliveries to start on 26th December from manufacturing sites in Germany and Belgium.

After that its just about how long it takes to transport into country and then distribute

They'll be flown straight to Dublin I'd say. Later batches might come through France, but I imagine the first few will be flown across. 2,200 doses wouldn't even need very big containers, they could be carried in the cabin of a Learjet.

funnydoggy

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Everywhere. Once approved by EMA, EU commission are saying deliveries to leave factories on 26th.

How many all depends on allocation. Small numbers id say

A lovely Christmas gift

ixoy

ixoy wrote: »

Did they? I did a high level skim of it and don't recall. Certainly, I imagine they'll want it for the bigger phases in place.
The contract itself is out with IBM and Salesforce and I imagine it'll need some major fleshing out, especially with the usual trickery around GDPR and all the edge cases these things seem to find.

Question was asked in the press conference, repeatedly. Reid said they will use some variant on the system they have for testing until the solution is available if needed.

opinionated3

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Everywhere. Once approved by EMA, EU commission are saying deliveries to leave factories on 26th.

How many all depends on allocation. Small numbers id say

When you say "small numbers" I'm assuming this is because manufacturing cannot keep up with demand?

ShineOn7

I know there were calls to use the Army to help with all sorts in this since March. It was almost a cliché

But if this side of the pandemic doesn't scream "get the Army to help" I don't know what does

stephenjmcd

opinionated3 wrote: »

When you say "small numbers" I'm assuming this is because manufacturing cannot keep up with demand?

Not really, it would have been pre agreed with the EU from Pfizer & BioNTech how many doses they could produce this year, then from that heres the EU initial allocation, spread that out among your 27 members and we'll have more in the coming weeks and months.

Production has been on going for months but it just takes time to build up stockpiles

polesheep

polesheep wrote: »

40% overfill is not common. It's by no means a big deal and I wasn't trying to imply that it is, however, it indicates things being done in a rush. That's possibly acceptable to most people given the circumstances, but the constant denial that there has been a rush is silly. As I said, I'm happy enough to be down the list.

Do you believe they have completely redesigned their solution dispensing process for this vaccine?
No medical product will be released by a reputable manufacturer "in a rush". As has been explained, if a vial is to have 5 doses it will have overage built in. Controls on dispensing will all be primarily preventing under filling.

ACitizenErased

This is very exciting lads, long time coming. Roll on the jabs

Marhay70

polesheep wrote: »

Not by 40%.

In a normal manufacturing set up I would agree, certainly from a profit point of view.
I'm remembering that early on in this whole saga, one of the key problems envisaged was supply of containers, I'm just wondering if this could be the reason for overfill. In my experience, granted a few years ago now, production lines usually have to be shut down to adjust fill levels so if the correct container is not available and given the pressure of demand and that the financial angle is not critical in this case, it just may be more expedient to fill the larger dose.
I'm sure there'll be an explanation forthcoming.

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you believe they have completely redesigned their solution dispensing process for this vaccine?
No medical product will be released by a reputable manufacturer "in a rush". As has been explained, if a vial is to have 5 doses it will have overage built in. Controls on dispensing will all be primarily preventing under filling.

From the article: "Erin Fox, a pharmacy expert at University of Utah said: “It’s pretty unusual to have a full extra dose or more though – but it does seem to be there.”

I'm as pleased as anyone that vaccines for Covid have been developed. Vaccines in general are a no-brainer. Without them many of us would not be here to post on this forum and of those that survived to be here, many would be crippled or horribly disfigured. I just don't get what is almost a religious zeal around the infallibility of the developers and producers of the fastest developed vaccines in history.

seamus

opinionated3 wrote: »

When you say "small numbers" I'm assuming this is because manufacturing cannot keep up with demand?

I think a limited amount of "ready to go" product was manufactured, because at the end of the day if you don't get approval, it all goes in the bin. Full-scale manufacturing will have already kicked off, but I expect won't be delivering any new batches for a few weeks.

Micky 32

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you believe they have completely redesigned their solution dispensing process for this vaccine?
No medical product will be released by a reputable manufacturer "in a rush". As has been explained, if a vial is to have 5 doses it will have overage built in. Controls on dispensing will all be primarily preventing under filling.

I think it’s just people looking for as many excuses as they can to not take the vaccine.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1363799/coronavirus-update-news-latest-nasal-spray-taffix/amp

What do people make of this?

Nasal sprays until vaccination rollout?

Claim of 5hr protection?

I think there is merit in nasal sprays. Not sure it will be this one but others are in development.

seamus

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1363799/coronavirus-update-news-latest-nasal-spray-taffix/amp

What do people make of this?

Nasal sprays until vaccination rollout?

Claim of 5hr protection?

I think there is merit in nasal sprays. Not sure it will be this one but others are in development.

This is a pre-existing product that they decided to test against Covid rather than a new innovation.

Tbh, I don't see it having a wide impact. It protects the nasal cavity only, so doesn't negate the requirement to wear a mask or social distance. The talk of "protection" would also risk leading people to believe that you take a spray of it before you step outside the door and then it's back to normal.

The source isn't exactly stellar either.

Water John

975 doses in each 'pizza' box and 5 boxes in a pack. That's 4,875 doses. Dose that number of people and use a new supply for the second dose.

munchkin_utd

Water John wrote: »

975 doses in each 'pizza' box and 5 boxes in a pack. That's 4,875 doses. Dose that number of people and use a new supply for the second dose.

Ireland will get more fairly quickly, but if NPHET hasnt even a plan in place to issue the vaccine then why should Ireland get substantial supplies
Theres 5 mass vaccination centres being worked on, and 3 of them are in colleges and the sum total of progress 2 days ago was that NPHET people had a chat with lads in the colleged

On the same day Bavaria, same size as Ireland and just over double the population, announced that all 100 mass vaccination centres there were finished and ready to go .
Now... who looks like they might actually do with getting substantial supplies of the vaccine before the new year, Germany/ Bavaria or NPHET-land ????

BTW, if I didn't hear it wrong, germany is getting 900,000 doses of the initial batch but as I said, whats the point in giving Ireland a decent amount if they arent ready for it.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

This is a pre-existing product that they decided to test against Covid rather than a new innovation.

Tbh, I don't see it having a wide impact. It protects the nasal cavity only, so doesn't negate the requirement to wear a mask or social distance. The talk of "protection" would also risk leading people to believe that you take a spray of it before you step outside the door and then it's back to normal.

The source isn't exactly stellar either.

Thats a good thing thats its pre existing as its deemed safe and not a "rushed product".

I would'nt see that as a negative at all tbh, rather a big plus.

Apparently most infections happen from nasal exposure.

In fairness to the article it does'nt suggest you abandon SD or mask wearing, but is to be used as an extra layer of protection (Swiss cheese model re: covid protection).

There is suggestions for a while now that if you get a lower viral load exposure
, your infection is more likely to be milder. I can see merit here.

Mask efficacy studies have been alot more inconclusive as to reducing infections than this.

It has also had labratory trials in University of Virginia and a real life efficacy study with volunteers.

https://hubpublishing.co.uk/taffix-the-clinically-tested-7p-a-day-nasal-spray-offering-hope-during-covid/

markodaly

Is there a list of what countries get the vaccines and when? As in a kind of delivery schedule of sorts?

ACitizenErased

markodaly wrote: »

Is there a list of what countries get the vaccines and when? As in a kind of delivery schedule of sorts?

Apparently every EU country is supposed to get it at the same time but based on what I'm reading either we're not ready or the EU is shafting us with initial deliveries.

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Apparently every EU country is supposed to get it at the same time but based on what I'm reading either we're not ready or the EU is shafting us with initial deliveries.

Its that they get sent from the production plants on the same day, 26th has been mentioned. After that it takes as long as it takes to get here. Germany & Belgium will for example have them before us well because they're being produced there, would only take an hour or two to reach the countries storage facilities.

From what I've seen the HSE has everything set up for delivery so its just a case of our proportion of initial stock, based on EU criteria being sent from production site.

Once they arrive in country then its up to the country to rollout, this is why I think the EU is saying, they'll ship on 26th and then it'll be 27th, 28th & 29th when you start seeing all the countries starting up the rollout.

EU commission just wants everything co ordinated it appears.