COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Thierry12

Thierry12 wrote: »

Honestly

Coloured water

The russians invented chemistry ffs

How did the Russians invent chemistry exactly? If you mean a Russian chemist, building on the work of scientists all over the world to develop an outstanding piece of work in the formulation of the periodic table of elements, Dimitri Mendeleev would never have claimed to have invented chemistry

Gatling

Thierry12 wrote: »

Putin let his child take the vaccine, good enough for me :pac:

And all there Olympic athletes have the same medical conditions needing steroids to treat

Marhay70

Thierry12 wrote: »

Putin let his child take the vaccine, good enough for me :pac:

Putin "says" he let his daughter take it. The Russian vaccine may indeed be a worthy competitor in the vaccine stakes but I would draw the line at taking Putin's word as Gospel.
Like his answers when asked what has happened to numerous dissidents, journalists etc who have mysteriously disappeared, I would take Putin's pronouncement on anything, with a monumental block of salt.

DaSilva

This article from 3 days ago is quite the read
https://www.trialsitenews.com/russia-seeks-to-distribute-its-accelerated-gamaleya-vaccine-to-the-philippines/

Here are some extracts from the article, emphasis mine:

TrialSite and others have questions the speed by which the Gamaleya vaccine candidate has gone through clinical trials, including what appears to be aggressive human challenge trials. Recently, the Russian Direct Investment Fund (RDIF), again the sovereign wealth fund that has contributed financing and deal-making, most recently joined an alliance with R-Pharm Group “to combat coronavirus infection and produce the first Russian vaccine with high export potential.” According to rumblings in the Philippines press, Russia invested 4 billion Rubles, or $54 million US.

More press now is covering the rapidly compressed Russian vaccine timelines. TrialSite has expressed concerns given SARS-CoV-2 just emerged on the world scene, and the most advanced Western life science companies (the most advanced in the world) can’t even move at the speed Russia now operates. But there are political and nationalistic aspirations as Russia harkens back to a Soviet-era momentum in Sputnik and an associated propaganda victory: the Soviet Union did launch the first satellite in 1957. Now, the Gamaleya vaccine commenced formal human trials just a couple of months ago. However, as TrialSite has uncovered through the various press in Russia and beyond early state and what many would consider highly unethical early state testing started a couple of months before that—possibly as early as March or April.

Oh... those Russians...

Cordell

Thierry12 wrote: »

Putin let his child take the vaccine, good enough for me :pac:

Ex KGB turned politician, so totally trustworthy.

Marhay70

DaSilva wrote: »

This article from 3 days ago is quite the read
https://www.trialsitenews.com/russia-seeks-to-distribute-its-accelerated-gamaleya-vaccine-to-the-philippines/

Here are some extracts from the article, emphasis mine:





Oh... those Russians...

Of course another explanation for their rapid progress with a vaccine could be that they developed the virus in the first place and already had all their preparatory work in place for the antidote.
( I can be good at the conspiracy theories too )

DaSilva

Marhay70 wrote: »

Of course another explanation for their rapid progress with a vaccine could be that they developed the virus in the first place and already had all their preparatory work in place for the antidote.
( I can be good at the conspiracy theories too )

I am not claiming this is anything but wild speculation, but I think if they actually have an effective vaccine because they did human challenge trials, we will find out very quickly, because the west will suddenly have the desire to do human challenge trials also...

Hmm, maybe its already started....

Hmmzis

ACitizenErased wrote: »

New study into sereprevelance in New York City has come back at 40%.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0732889320305058?via%3Dihub

It's not a great sample distribution as they were all taken from primary care center patients. This will skew the prevalence stats to be higher than overall. It's still huge prevalence even at that limitation.

I think this paper was one of the first if not the first to establish a direct IgG titer to disease severity link for Covid-19.

darjeeling

DaSilva wrote: »

This article from 3 days ago is quite the read
https://www.trialsitenews.com/russia-seeks-to-distribute-its-accelerated-gamaleya-vaccine-to-the-philippines/

Here are some extracts from the article, emphasis mine:

I can understand the speculation. The Russian authorities have approved a vaccine that has not been tested in a phase III efficacy trial, which is essential to show that a vaccine actually works. But Putin himself said today that the vaccine has passed all the necessary checks.
So if the Russians are claiming to know this vaccine prevents infection or disease, they shouldn't be surprised when people ask if they have carried out ethically dubious human challenge trials. But is there any basis for thinking so?

All I can see is plans for two registered phase I clinical trials starting in mid June:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04436471
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04437875

These are safety trials of each of the two stages (the prime and the boost dose), with volunteers given either one dose only or both the prime and the boost 21 days apart.
There is no mention of any viral challenge, which would be completely unethical so early in development.

The timeline for the trials also makes it pretty impossible that any challenge trial could have been carried out.
On July 12th Sputnik News announced completion of the first trial and anticipated the second would finish by July 20th (link).

I think it's more likely that Putin is just doing a PR stunt. He wants to grab the headlines to bolster Russia's global standing and probably win some contracts to supply a vaccine to other countries, but he knows he won't have to show any results yet and will buy time so they can get started on the trials required.

darjeeling

darjeeling wrote: »

I can understand the speculation. The Russian authorities have approved a vaccine that has not been tested in a phase III efficacy trial, which is essential to show that a vaccine actually works. But Putin himself said today that the vaccine has passed all the necessary checks.
So if the Russians are claiming to know this vaccine prevents infection or disease, they shouldn't be surprised when people ask if they have carried out ethically dubious human challenge trials. But is there any basis for thinking so?

All I can see is plans for two registered phase I clinical trials starting in mid June:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04436471
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04437875

These are safety trials of each of the two stages (the prime and the boost dose), with volunteers given either one dose only or both the prime and the boost 21 days apart.
There is no mention of any viral challenge, which would be completely unethical so early in development.

The timeline for the trials also makes it pretty impossible that any challenge trial could have been carried out.
On July 12th Sputnik News announced completion of the first trial and anticipated the second would finish by July 20th (link).

I think it's more likely that Putin is just doing a PR stunt. He wants to grab the headlines to bolster Russia's global standing and probably win some contracts to supply a vaccine to other countries, but he knows he won't have to show any results yet and will buy time so they can get started on the trials required.

Essentially I think Russia have approved for phase III trails but called it vaccine approval so they could claim to me first. Lots of teams already there and therefore ahead of the Russians

hmmm

The Russian thing is clearly a bit of a red herring, no-one in the West is going to take this vaccine.

What's important about today's news is that this is the start of the vaccine wars The race is on now politically, because the country which gets the vaccine, and gets its economy back up and running, wins the race. So far it has been all about scientists, but now the markets and the general public are going to see vaccines are on the horizon, and there is going to be tremendous pressure to get the vaccines out and get things back to "normal". If the Russians have really gone with challenge trials on the quiet I expect it will increase the likelihood that the rest of the world will do the same.

Ha Long Bay

Deleted User wrote: »

Essentially I think Russia have approved for phase III trials but called it vaccine approval so they could claim to me first. Lots of teams already there and therefore ahead of the Russians

https://sputnikvaccine.com/about-vaccine/clinical-trials/


That's what it seems like. Phase 3 trials are only due to start tomorrow.


"Phase 3 clinical trial involving more than 2,000 people in Russia, a number of Middle Eastern (UAE and Saudi Arabia), and Latin American countries (Brazil and Mexico) will start on August 12.

The vaccine has received a registration certificate from the Russian Ministry of Health on August 11 and under emergency rules adopted during the COVID-19 pandemic can be used to vaccinate the population in Russia. Mass production of the vaccine is expected to start in September 2020.

Akrasia

DaSilva wrote: »

This article from 3 days ago is quite the read
https://www.trialsitenews.com/russia-seeks-to-distribute-its-accelerated-gamaleya-vaccine-to-the-philippines/

Here are some extracts from the article, emphasis mine:





Oh... those Russians...

Just a quick reminder that the Irish state allowed children in care ( mother and baby homes) to be used as test subjects for vaccine drug trials and this was still being covered up less than 20 years ago...
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-20430889.html?type=amp

Ireland well within living memory used stolen babies as drug test subjects
We have to fully own up to this before criticizing Russia for unethical drug trials

YellowBucket

As it stands:

Pre-clinical trials: >135 vaccines.
Phase 1 trials: 19
Phase 2 trials: 11
Phase 3 trials: 8

Approval: 2 - Russia and China, in both cases, that's mostly down to difference in regulatory regimes allowing movement to small scale dosing of people without the usual steps being followed or are calling it approval when it's really phase 3

Several of the vaccines are doing simultaneous phases to speed things up.

The most likely ones to be used here are probably BioNTech (with Pfizer & Fosun) - primarily a German product, the AstraZeneca / Oxford vaccine (UK/Sweden) and Moderna (US)

Sonofi (France) and GSK (GlaxoSmithKline) has one in earlier stages of trial, but Sanofi are the go-to vaccine maker for a huge range of other vaccines with a lot of expertise in this so, I would watch that space. In the medium term they are likely to be a huge supplier.

Sanofi also have a second one in the early stages in conjunction with Tranlate Bio in Massachusetts which could end up big.

What is likely to happen is you'll have some early vaccines that will be rolled out, but over time if coronavirus vaccination becomes an annual / regular thing, like the flu vaccine, you'll see more of the mainstream vaccine makers either launching their own tech or linking up with or even acquiring some of these biotech companies.

Leftwaffe

I'm a caveman when it comes to the vaccine discussion but is there any info coming out of China telling us how their vaccine is actually fairing out over there?

I understand we can't rely on this info, just curious.

YellowBucket

There are quite a few Chinese vaccines making their way through testing stages, and some where Chinese and western companies are working together.

Hmmzis

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

I'm a caveman when it comes to the vaccine discussion but is there any info coming out of China telling us how their vaccine is actually fairing out over there?

I understand we can't rely on this info, just curious.

Surprisingly enough, the Chinese are putting their data up on the public pre-print sites quite regularly. So far all their data looks fine as presented.

Limpy

Finally a vaccine. Ok let's get the vunerable immunised so we can't return to normal. Open ip ta Fexk.

What Username Guidelines

Does anyone know much about distribution? Not necessarily time lines, but how would such a vaccine be distributed? Assuming healthcare workers go first, they will likely get it at work. For the general population, when they eventually get it, would it be via GP? Special pop up clinics? Or is this completely unprecedented?

hmmm

https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1293344524731691008

Hmmzis

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Does anyone know much about distribution? Not necessarily time lines, but how would such a vaccine be distributed? Assuming healthcare workers go first, they will likely get it at work. For the general population, when they eventually get it, would it be via GP? Special pop up clinics? Or is this completely unprecedented?

That is a very good question, and will be interesting to see the implementation of that in practice.

I wouldn't be surprised to see vaccination drive-through centers implemented, like we have testing centers at the moment. GPs could take some of the load as well. We have flu shots in the office every year, I could see that option used as well. The logistics are made even more of a challenge by the fact that most of the candidates are two shots (prime-boost). Only J&J is preliminary looking like a one shot deal.

Cordell

Limpy wrote: »

Finally a vaccine. Ok let's get the vunerable immunised so we can't return to normal. Open ip ta Fexk.

No, not finally there. The russians just rubber stamped their vaccine which is actually behind others. They may be able to rush it out ahead of others but they will do that by cutting corners, which is arguably a good approach given the emergency and the fact that most vaccines on trial today are proven safe (with a degree of confidence), but not yet proven effective.
Even if we were to have a vaccine proven safe and effective today, it will still be many months util it's generally available like the flu vaccine.

What Username Guidelines

Hmmzis wrote: »

That is a very good question, and will be interesting to see the implementation of that in practice.

I wouldn't be surprised to see vaccination drive-through centers implemented, like we have testing centers at the moment. GPs could take some of the load as well. We have flu shots in the office every year, I could see that option used as well. The logistics are made even more of a challenge by the fact that most of the candidates are two shots (prime-boost). Only J&J is preliminary looking like a one shot deal.

My office always provides the flu shot for us, wonder if the incentive of having all staff vaccinated would help to get employers on board through a public/private partnership of some sort. It sounds like a logistical challenge but does it need to be tracked as well? Given the level of lockdown and the paths to fully release a lockdown, they’d need some kind of indication as to what % have taken it, would be made more difficult if spread amongst many options (GP/drive in/work/etc).

Will be fascinating to see how they go about it.

Thierry12

hmmm wrote: »

https://twitter.com/profshanecrotty/status/1293344524731691008

He's making a claim as well :pac:

He has no idea how many were infected to come up with that 10-20% nonsense

Why at 10-20% does it magically stop?

We have seen prisons, meat plants, agri workers and many more with infection rates of over 80%

hmmm

Thierry12 wrote: »

He's making a claim as well :pac:

He has no idea how many were infected to come up with that 10-20% nonsense

Why at 10-20% does it magically stop?

We have seen prisons, meat plants, agri workers and many more with infection rates of over 80%

I think you've partly misread the Tweet - the poster (Professor Crotty) is criticising someone who has used his research to claim only 10-20% infection is required for herd immunity.

BTW this is a great article showing what happened in a jail:
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-11/san-quentin-coronavirus-herd-immunity-covid-19

"COVID-19 spread unchecked across California’s oldest prison in ways that stunned public health experts, despite efforts to control the disease. As of Monday, there had been more than 2,200 cases and 25 deaths, among a population of more than 3,260 people. On Sunday, a guard became one of the latest to die."

Call me Al

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Does anyone know much about distribution? Not necessarily time lines, but how would such a vaccine be distributed? Assuming healthcare workers go first, they will likely get it at work. For the general population, when they eventually get it, would it be via GP? Special pop up clinics? Or is this completely unprecedented?

The 2nd dose of booster vaccines for first years was organised through the summer throughout the country. The public health team normally go from school to school to do this. My 13 year old was called to the National Show Centre in Swords. It's a huge kind of arena and was a well laid out controlled environment.
He was temperature checked at entrance with a few questions.The nurses were in little individual open cells and you were sent straight in when one was available. There was no queuing inside, you waited outside in your car until your allotted time.
The PHN who treated my child said she thought this was how the HSE would approach a mass vaccination programme for covid.
We had to wait around afterwards for 10 minutes to make sure there were no immediate reactions and then sent on our way. Chairs were cleaned as people were vacating them.
I was very impressed at how they were able to control the numbers coming through.

Thierry12

hmmm wrote: »

I think you've partly misread the Tweet - the poster (Professor Crotty) is criticising someone who has used his research to claim only 10-20% infection is required for herd immunity.

BTW this is a great article showing what happened in a jail:
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-08-11/san-quentin-coronavirus-herd-immunity-covid-19

"COVID-19 spread unchecked across California’s oldest prison in ways that stunned public health experts, despite efforts to control the disease. As of Monday, there had been more than 2,200 cases and 25 deaths, among a population of more than 3,260 people. On Sunday, a guard became one of the latest to die."

My bad

It is a good read, scary stuff

is_that_so

Not COVID but good news on a cold vaccine for about 2024.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2251437-vaccine-for-major-common-cold-virus-could-be-ready-for-use-by-2024/

Stark

Well, one of the viruses that causes the cold (There are many).

Flappidyflap

Hi all.
Just looking for opinions/ some clarity before I chase up again tomorrow.
My 2 1/2 year old started with a cough today. No fever seems fine but obviously I was ohh no.
Rang GP he was like as no fever and not travelled to Spain or the like it just be a virus and to keep eye on her. The end.
I was a bit OK as she really isn't that sick at all in normal terms she would have been in creche today. But I asked what do I do can I just go about my business now as he doesn't think its covid to shops playground etc (I wouldn't bring a coughing child anywhere). He said he didn't have all the answers but if I wanted a test for her I should request it. I don't particularly want to have to covid test a 2 year old.
But confused. I know nearly 99% of all tests are negative anyway so chances are it's a cold but presumed I'd get much more clear advice. Feel like hypochondriac mother but the workers in the creche with the outbreak 1 had sore throat other runny nose. No fever.