COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

hmmm

Hmmzis wrote: »

It's an intersting opinion piece, very idealistic, utopian even. From a practical and realistic point of view, what they are postulating is not workable. Some aspects of the current guidelines would be great to maintain (hygiene, avoid people when sick or at least wear a mask, more focus on better nutrition and health in general).

Their argument seems to be that even with a vaccine, there will be a relatively large group of people who are not protected (vaccine doesn't provide sterilising immunity, this group can't take a vaccine or they don't get a good response to a vaccine).

That's fair. At the moment that "at risk" group is very large, so I think there is broad public support for restrictions despite the severe social and economic cost.

If that group is a lot smaller after vaccines have been administered, that support is going to fray. It's very tough for the people involved and I don't have an answer myself as to what we are going to do, but it's very hard to see the public supporting the public health measures with all the social and economic costs. Hopefully we will have some alternatives we can offer this group e.g. easy ways to sterilise items coming into a home, good ppe for both them and anyone dealing directly with them, and ultimately vaccines or some other treatments which offer foolproof protection.

Hmmzis

hmmm wrote: »

Their argument seems to be that even with a vaccine, there will be a relatively large group of people who are not protected (vaccine doesn't provide sterilising immunity, this group can't take a vaccine or they don't get a good response to a vaccine).

That's fair. At the moment that "at risk" group is very large, so I think there is broad public support for restrictions despite the severe social and economic cost.

If that group is a lot smaller after vaccines have been administered, that support is going to fray. It's very tough for the people involved and I don't have an answer myself as to what we are going to do, but it's very hard to see the public supporting the public health measures with all the social and economic costs. Hopefully we will have some alternatives we can offer this group e.g. easy ways to sterilise items coming into a home, good ppe for both them and anyone dealing directly with them, and ultimately vaccines or some other treatments which offer foolproof protection.

If you look at how society is already treating this without a vaccine or widely available treatments, it's not all too hard to project out what the attitudes are going to be once vaccines and treatments are readily available, even if there are significant amounts of people who can't take any.

The alternatives are a bit cumbersome but overall might be workable:

- monoclonal antibodies, they're safe as can be and should protect from severe disease. They're expensive and hard to make in large numbers, but we should not need that many. Mostly viable for nursing homes, cancer patients, etc.

- antivirals. EIDD-2801 is basically Ramdesivir in pill form, hopefully it passes clinical trials and can be used as a prophylactic. Take one on the days when encountering crowds. Would suit those with conditions that prevent vaccination and who are not in a clinical setting or undergoing acute treatment.

That would leave a very small amount of people who would be unprotected. For those I'm not sure how to protect them.

autumnbelle

Has China a vaccine? How are there numbers remaining so low

Ce he sin

autumnbelle wrote: »

Has China a vaccine? How are there numbers remaining so low

That would rather depend on whether you mean the reported numbers or the actual numbers...


The official explanation is that their lockdowns were so severe and enforced so ruthlessly that the virus was almost suppressed. South Korea and Singapore have to a lesser extent kept numbers down by contract tracing of an intrusive nature that we wouldn't tolerate - following suspected contacts by CCTV for example.

irishgeo

Ce he sin wrote: »

That would rather depend on whether you mean the reported numbers or the actual numbers...


The official explanation is that their lockdowns were so severe and enforced so ruthlessly that the virus was almost suppressed. South Korea and Singapore have to a lesser extent kept numbers down by contract tracing of an intrusive nature that we wouldn't tolerate - following suspected contacts by CCTV for example.

When we you trace a close contact in Ireland some people are refusing to isolate or get tested that's not tolerated elsewhere.

Dionaibh

Hego Damask wrote: »

Social media has a big part to play in all this hysteria too, I am convinced that if this had happened in 2000 we would just have had a few bottles of soap at shops/bars/cinemas etc and advised to social distance ...

Absolutely. This is a social media pandemic. If there was no social media or internet then life would've carried on as normal. But instead we get celebrity scientists who can predict the future (no going back to normal), more celebrity scientists who say the opposite, a daily case count, doom merchants like Fauci, 24/7 hysteria, and social media deciding how things should proceed.

charlie14

Dionaibh wrote: »

Absolutely. This is a social media pandemic. If there was no social media or internet then life would've carried on as normal. But instead we get celebrity scientists who can predict the future (no going back to normal), more celebrity scientists who say the opposite, a daily case count, doom merchants like Fauci, 24/7 hysteria, and social media deciding how things should proceed.

What a load of absolute drivel.
U.S.A. alone to date has deaths from Covid-19 that are four times their total deaths in the Vietnam War, twice their total deaths in the First World War and half their total deaths in the Second World War.
Their citizens were very aware of the death tolls during all those wars, (especially Vietnam), with no social media or internet.

Dionaibh

charlie14 wrote: »

What a load of absolute drivel.
U.S.A. alone to date has deaths from Covid-19 that are four times their total deaths in the Vietnam War, twice their total deaths in the First World War and half their total deaths in the Second World War.
Their citizens were very aware of the death tolls during all those wars, (especially Vietnam), with no social media or internet.

The number is grossly inflated. All sorts of deaths have been classified as COVID deaths. A woman from Tennessee who died 6 months ago received a letter a few weeks ago to say she'd recently tested positive for COVID-19. The US is very different from Western Europe. I'm talking more about Western Europe. Can you honestly say you would've noticed there was a pandemic in Ireland were it not for the media? I wouldn't.

Real Donald Trump

Dionaibh wrote: »

Absolutely. This is a social media pandemic. If there was no social media or internet then life would've carried on as normal. But instead we get celebrity scientists who can predict the future (no going back to normal), more celebrity scientists who say the opposite, a daily case count, doom merchants like Fauci, 24/7 hysteria, and social media deciding how things should proceed.

Fauci is mild in comparison to Sam Mcdonkey and Gerry Gimpleen

charlie14

Dionaibh wrote: »

The number is grossly inflated. All sorts of deaths have been classified as COVID deaths. A woman from Tennessee who died 6 months ago received a letter a few weeks ago to say she'd recently tested positive for COVID-19. The US is very different from Western Europe. I'm talking more about Western Europe. Can you honestly say you would've noticed there was a pandemic in Ireland were it not for the media? I wouldn't.

In the U.S.A. under the present regime, if anything, the numbers are being under reported.
But lets go to Western Europe. How about Italy.
The health service of the province of Bergamo was totally over-run. The dead bodies were stacking up so much they had to call in the army.

You think Italians would not have noticed if it wasn`t for social media or the internet ?
Spain`s health service, even with lockdown, came close to being over-run.
You think the Spaniards would not have noticed if it wasn`t for social media or the internet ?


If we had no media then we very likely would not know we had a pandemic scale virus in our midst.
But that would have meant no guidelines on how to avoid contracting it, or what restrictions there were to prevent it spreading.
I`m pretty sure that we would have noticed there was something going on within a very short time after it had run rampant unimpeded and the bodies started stacking up.
It that point it would have made no difference if we knew we had a pandemic or not. it would have already wiped out the vulnerable, the elderly and some of those who could care less about either as well.

CruelSummer

This Forbes article re vaccines in development is quite concerning.

https://www.forbes.com...tter_impression=true

Their interim analysis data are based on small numbers and success in primary analysis is just 60%:
“ For Johnson & Johnson, their interim analysis includes 77 vaccine recipients, with a success margin of 18 or less developing symptoms compared to 59 in the control group. For AstraZeneca, their interim analysis includes 50 vaccine recipients, with a success margin of 12 or less developing symptoms compared to 19 in the 25 person control group. Pfizer is even smaller in its success requirements. Their initial group includes 32 vaccine recipients, with a success margin of 7 or less developing symptoms compared to 25 in the control group.

The primary analyses are a bit more expanded, but need to be less efficacious for success: about sixty percent.”

It also goes on to say, the aim of vaccine trials is not to prevent severe Covid cases:

“ It appears that all the pharmaceutical companies assume that the vaccine will never prevent infection. Their criteria for approval is the difference in symptoms between an infected control group and an infected vaccine group. They do not measure the difference between infection and noninfection as a primary motivation.”

Waiting on one of these vaccines while throwing our way of life under the bus is a huge mistake in my opinion. We need to learn to live with this for the time being and protect those at risk until more reliable treatment comes on stream.

Thierry12

Treatment will always be the end game imo

Its supposedly extremely hard to prevent infection though nasal passage

Not surprised reading that

Dionaibh

charlie14 wrote: »

In the U.S.A. under the present regime, if anything, the numbers are being under reported.
But lets go to Western Europe. How about Italy.
The health service of the province of Bergamo was totally over-run. The dead bodies were stacking up so much they had to call in the army.

You think Italians would not have noticed if it wasn`t for social media or the internet ?
Spain`s health service, even with lockdown, came close to being over-run.
You think the Spaniards would not have noticed if it wasn`t for social media or the internet ?


If we had no media then we very likely would not know we had a pandemic scale virus in our midst.
But that would have meant no guidelines on how to avoid contracting it, or what restrictions there were to prevent it spreading.
I`m pretty sure that we would have noticed there was something going on within a very short time after it had run rampant unimpeded and the bodies started stacking up.
It that point it would have made no difference if we knew we had a pandemic or not. it would have already wiped out the vulnerable, the elderly and some of those who could care less about either as well.

One reads of people dying in car crashes being classified as a Covid death. It's ridiculous.

Italy and Spain are particular cases. Apart from a couple of months early on in the year there would be no sign of a pandemic were it not for the media and social media. A Spanish doctor was interviewed a couple of months ago and said that it was media hysteria that was driving the alleged second wave. He and his colleagues hadn't even noticed.

I disagree re Ireland. I don't think people would have noticed, just as people don't notice bad flu years. Ivor Cummins shows how there was a couple of months of spread and that it has been over since around May. It's now a casedemic.

Dionaibh

Real Donald Trump wrote: »

Fauci is mild in comparison to Sam Mcdonkey and Gerry Gimpleen

All three would put years on you. But Fauci is particularly bad. Whenever there's any bit of good news out pops that guy with his doom and negativity.

I made a point in another post about how we in the West have to put up with non-stop hysteria, doomsday scenarios, and celebrity scientists with a different opinion every other day. Another one this morning with a Spanish doctor saying masks will be required for two years. I asked a Brazilian friend of mine what things are like there and she said people are out and about, going to restaurants, dancing in the street, beaches are packed etc. No hysteria. The culture outside of the West is very different. Life is more simple and people appreciate that there are more important things in life than work, hysteria, social media, celebrity scientists. So that's why I have consistently recommended that people emigrate, if they can.

Dionaibh

CruelSummer wrote: »

This Forbes article re vaccines in development is quite concerning.

https://www.forbes.com...tter_impression=true

Their interim analysis data are based on small numbers and success in primary analysis is just 60%:
“ For Johnson & Johnson, their interim analysis includes 77 vaccine recipients, with a success margin of 18 or less developing symptoms compared to 59 in the control group. For AstraZeneca, their interim analysis includes 50 vaccine recipients, with a success margin of 12 or less developing symptoms compared to 19 in the 25 person control group. Pfizer is even smaller in its success requirements. Their initial group includes 32 vaccine recipients, with a success margin of 7 or less developing symptoms compared to 25 in the control group.

The primary analyses are a bit more expanded, but need to be less efficacious for success: about sixty percent.”

It also goes on to say, the aim of vaccine trials is not to prevent severe Covid cases:

“ It appears that all the pharmaceutical companies assume that the vaccine will never prevent infection. Their criteria for approval is the difference in symptoms between an infected control group and an infected vaccine group. They do not measure the difference between infection and noninfection as a primary motivation.”

Waiting on one of these vaccines while throwing our way of life under the bus is a huge mistake in my opinion. We need to learn to live with this for the time being and protect those at risk until more reliable treatment comes on stream.

Forbes and The Atlantic are particularly bad for doom and gloom. I googled "vaccine" this morning and the head of project Warp Speed was interviewed the other day and said that, based on the data they're seeing, they expect 80 to 90% effectiveness. They all say different things. I made the point that a lot of people enjoy this too much to want it to end. Every passing day confirms that for me.

is_that_so

A study on everyone's favourite drug - Hydroxychloroquine. Conclusion - Had no effect on the rate of mortality

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022926

plodder

Dionaibh wrote: »

Forbes and The Atlantic are particularly bad for doom and gloom. I googled "vaccine" this morning and the head of project Warp Speed was interviewed the other day and said that, based on the data they're seeing, they expect 80 to 90% effectiveness. They all say different things. I made the point that a lot of people enjoy this too much to want it to end. Every passing day confirms that for me.

Indeed. They are first generation vaccines. What do people expect when a vaccine has never been developed this quickly before? If they prevent severe cases in the vulnerable, that's good enough for me.

Dionaibh

is_that_so wrote: »

A study on everyone's favourite drug - Hydroxychloroquine Conclusion - Had no effect on the rate of mortality

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022926

https://techstartups.com/2020/08/24/renowned-epidemiologist-yale-professor-dr-harvey-risch-says-dr-fauci-fda-caused-deaths-hundreds-thousands-americans-saved-hyd/

Recently, Dr. Risch wrote: “There are now 53 studies that show positive results of hydroxychloroquine in COVID infections. There are 14 global studies that show neutral or negative results and 10 of them were patients in very late stages of COVID-19, where no antiviral drug can be expected to have much effect.”

Interesting what Professor Risch says about what Fauci did in the 1980s during the AIDS epidemic.

53 studies show positive results.

Dionaibh

plodder wrote: »

Indeed. They are first generation vaccines. What do people expect when a vaccine has never been developed this quickly before? If they prevent severe cases in the vulnerable, that's good enough for me.

And the Western media ignore the Russian vaccine, which Russian scientists think will protect people for two years, and the Chinese vaccine. Whenever I see a doom headline, as I call them, I just google the opposite and sure enough I find someone who goes against the doom.

The wider point here, and I'm sorry to labour it, is that attitudes in the West are very different. It's all doom and gloom.

is_that_so

Dionaibh wrote: »

https://techstartups.com/2020/08/24/renowned-epidemiologist-yale-professor-dr-harvey-risch-says-dr-fauci-fda-caused-deaths-hundreds-thousands-americans-saved-hyd/

Recently, Dr. Risch wrote: “There are now 53 studies that show positive results of hydroxychloroquine in COVID infections. There are 14 global studies that show neutral or negative results and 10 of them were patients in very late stages of COVID-19, where no antiviral drug can be expected to have much effect.”

Interesting what Professor Risch says about what Fauci did in the 1980s during the AIDS epidemic.

53 studies show positive results.

Hmm, you really have it in for Fauci!

The paper mentions other studies in the introduction and points out that many of them are tiny.

As for Dr Risch -

“As his colleagues, we defend the right of Dr. Risch, a respected cancer epidemiologist, to voice his opinions,” the letter states. “But he is not an expert in infectious disease epidemiology and he has not been swayed by the body of scientific evidence from rigorously conducted clinical trials, which refute the plausibility of his belief and arguments.

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/08/16/ysph-professor-criticized-for-promoting-unproven-drug-to-treat-covid-19/

dominatinMC

plodder wrote: »

Indeed. They are first generation vaccines. What do people expect when a vaccine has never been developed this quickly before? If they prevent severe cases in the vulnerable, that's good enough for me.

Exactly. Roll out the vaccine, protect the vulnerable, and get on with life as we knew it. I'm looking forward to the "old normal" returing to take the place of the "new normal"

Dionaibh

is_that_so wrote: »

Hmm, you really have it in for Fauci!

The paper mentions other studies in the introduction and points out that many of them are tiny.

As for Dr Risch -



https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2020/08/16/ysph-professor-criticized-for-promoting-unproven-drug-to-treat-covid-19/

I don't have it in for him, and know very little about him, but I think his doom and gloom has been very unwelcome and unhelpful. People can say that Trump does what he wants to do, but I believe the reason Dr Atlas was brought in was because of Fauci's constant negativity.

And isn't it shocking what Fauci did re Bactrim?

“And there’s been a massive disinformation campaign that stretches from government to the media that’s either suppressing this message, or it is countering it with a false message, and I’m not an expert in the reasons why that’s happening other than just observing it, but I am an expert in the science and I can tell you the science is all one sided. In fact, the science is so one sided in supporting this result that it’s stronger than anything else I’ve ever studied in my entire career. The evidence in favor of hydroxychloroquine benefit in high risk patients treated early as outpatients is stronger than anything else I’ve ever studied.”

I wouldn't pay much notice of that criticism. The problem with hydroxychloroquine working is that it means no need for a vaccine. Hence the war on the drug. Professor Risch is highly respected and when someone of his ilk says the evidence in favour of hydroxychloroquine is "stronger than anything else I've ever studied" then I think it's time to sit up and take notice.

jackal

Hmm, New England Journal of Medicine or TechStartups.com, which should I put more faith in???

timsey tiger

Dionaibh wrote: »

I wouldn't pay much notice of that criticism. The problem with hydroxychloroquine working is that it means no need for a vaccine. Hence the war on the drug. Professor Risch is highly respected and when someone of his ilk says the evidence in favour of hydroxychloroquine is "stronger than anything else I've ever studied" then I think it's time to sit up and take notice.

The only problem with hydroxychloroquine working, is that it doesn't. It was tried the world over and rejected the world over.

Dionaibh

timsey tiger wrote: »

The only problem with hydroxychloroquine working, is that it doesn't. It was tried the world over and rejected the world over.

There was a graph produced recently which showed that countries that use hydroxychloroquine have had far fewer deaths than countries that don't. I'll try to find that graph.

The problem with hydroxychloroquine means that a vaccine is not required if a cure already exists. Hence the war on the drug.

Stark

Ooh a graph. Don't worry, if you can't find it, you can always do a new one up with crayons.

Funny how the one proponent of it isn't using it as a treatment at the moment, right?

Dionaibh

jackal wrote: »

Hmm, New England Journal of Medicine or TechStartups.com, which should I put more faith in???

Would you call the Lancet a trustworthy source? They were forced to withdraw a bogus study on hydroxychloroquine: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/the-lancet-reforms-editorial-policy-after-hydroxychloroquine-covid-study-retraction

Dionaibh

Stark wrote: »

Ooh a graph. Don't worry, if you can't find it, you can always do a new one up with crayons.

Funny how the one proponent of it isn't using it as a treatment at the moment, right?

https://www.palmerfoundation.com.au/hydroxychloroquine-is-widely-used-around-the-globe/

"Death rates in countries that rely on hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) for the treatment of COVID-19 appear to be dramatically lower than death rates in countries that discourage the use of the drug.

"A new study claims that the death rate in the countries that used HCQ early on was 77 percent lower than in countries where the drug was not used (c19study.com)."

"It might also mean that a pill costing a few cents saves lives, while the mountain of money spent on lockdowns in the rich part of the world has failed to do so.

The other notable difference between the HCQ countries and lockdown countries is that those countries don’t attempt to prevent doctors from prescribing HCQ to their patients. Here, doctors are discouraged from doing so.

Speaking Out
A detailed analysis of the c19 study is far beyond the ability of this author. The fact is, the study is currently being attacked by scientists and other experts—as it should be. However, the point is, many countries claim that HCQ works, and the truth of this claim is largely being ignored by a biased media and self-serving politicians.

However, senior doctors are now beginning to speak out against the unofficial campaign that clearly exists to discredit any doctor or scientist who advocates for the use of HCQ.

Recently, Yale University Dean of Public Health Sten Vermund defended the right of a fellow senior doctor to openly discuss his view that HCQ works, and that American doctors must be freed up to prescribe a drug that could save many lives.

The general belief of these doctors is that HCQ, in combination with zinc and azithromycin, should be used as early as possible in the treatment of the disease for best results. Clearly, the campaign to stop doctors who believe that HCQ works from prescribing it to their patients is beginning to crack."

https://www.ispsw.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/711_Lin.pdf

The world is different outside of the West. It's all about money and profits in the West. That's why a war has been waged against a cheap drug.

Hmmzis

A bit on the side of treatments.

The final report about Remdesivir is now out, looks good to my eye:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2007764

Looks like earlier administration has a better effect (not surprising for an antiviral), significant reduction in mortality as well.

Lilly seem to have had decent results with Baricitinib:

https://investor.lilly.com/news-releases/news-release-details/baricitinib-has-significant-effect-recovery-time-most-impactful

On top of Remdesivir it looks to be performing quite well in reducing mortality and improving outcomes. it's a lot more expensive than steroids but maybe the more exact targeting of the cytokine pathways is more beneficial overall.

Gael23

Doesn’t look like the HSE are capable of mass rollout of any vaccine
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40061852.html

Diarmuid

Dionaibh wrote: »

Would you call the Lancet a trustworthy source? They were forced to withdraw a bogus study on hydroxychloroquine: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/22/the-lancet-reforms-editorial-policy-after-hydroxychloroquine-covid-study-retraction

Yes I would.

You seem to be branding anything that does not support your blind optimism as "doom and gloom".

You denigrate independent commentators and well respected journals and yet take word of companies treatments as gospel, with little or no critique.

Everyone wants to be done with this pandemic, that does not justify the wildly unrealistic expectations that pass as commentary here.

Diarmuid

Look at the title of the poll "Will you taking the talked about rushed September vaccine?" I mean talk about unrealistic expectations.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Gael23 wrote: »

Doesn’t look like the HSE are capable of mass rollout of any vaccine
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40061852.html

Tell the patients to contact their pharmacist instead. What we have here is a doctor upset he can't charge his patients instead of the pharmacies charging his patients.

There is supplies of the vaccine in the country.

plodder

Gael23 wrote: »

Doesn’t look like the HSE are capable of mass rollout of any vaccine
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40061852.html

I booked a shot for myself online for a couple of weeks out (late Oct). Maybe anyone who can afford the 25 euro, but might have qualified for getting it free, should just pay the few quid.

Dionaibh

Diarmuid wrote: »

Yes I would.

You seem to be branding anything that does not support your blind optimism as "doom and gloom".

You denigrate independent commentators and well respected journals and yet take word of companies treatments as gospel, with little or no critique.

Everyone wants to be done with this pandemic, that does not justify the wildly unrealistic expectations that pass as commentary here.

The reason I mentioned the Lancet and that bogus study is to show how a good name doesn't necessarily mean infallibility.

No blind optimism. I just don't see how Fauci brings anything to the table apart from non-stop negativity. It's not helpful.

funnydoggy

Diarmuid wrote: »

Look at the title of the poll "Will you taking the talked about rushed September vaccine?" I mean talk about unrealistic expectations.

Should be "Will you be taking the vaccine?", tbh

stephenjmcd

Gael23 wrote: »

Doesn’t look like the HSE are capable of mass rollout of any vaccine
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40061852.html

Getting mine through pharmacist next Tuesday.
Company has 150 doses reserved with them.

Same time as last year for us anyway

is_that_so

New test research - detects the virus in 5 minutes, based on CRISPR. Work continuing on accuracy and validation of the set-up.

Researchers have used CRISPR gene-editing technology to come up with a test that detects the pandemic coronavirus in just 5 minutes. The diagnostic doesn’t require expensive lab equipment to run and could potentially be deployed at doctor’s offices, schools, and office buildings.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/10/new-test-detects-coronavirus-just-5-minutes

hmmm

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-vaccine-czar-says-the-first-vaccine-should-be-submitted-for-emergency-authorization-around-thanksgiving-2020-10-08

"Moncef Slaoui, an immunologist by training and a longtime pharmaceutical executive, is running the Trump administration’s Operation Warp Speed program to spur development of vaccines on the fastest ever timetable.

While none of the four vaccine candidates to enter Phase 3 trials have publicly reported data from the mid-stage studies, Slaoui is hopeful that drug makers will file for emergency authorization with the Food and Drug Administration by late November, immunization in high-risk populations could begin this year, and that the vaccines may be more effective in clinical trials than previously assumed.

“My expectation is really something between 80% and 90% efficacy,” he said."

Dionaibh

hmmm wrote: »

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trumps-vaccine-czar-says-the-first-vaccine-should-be-submitted-for-emergency-authorization-around-thanksgiving-2020-10-08

"Moncef Slaoui, an immunologist by training and a longtime pharmaceutical executive, is running the Trump administration’s Operation Warp Speed program to spur development of vaccines on the fastest ever timetable.

While none of the four vaccine candidates to enter Phase 3 trials have publicly reported data from the mid-stage studies, Slaoui is hopeful that drug makers will file for emergency authorization with the Food and Drug Administration by late November, immunization in high-risk populations could begin this year, and that the vaccines may be more effective in clinical trials than previously assumed.

“My expectation is really something between 80% and 90% efficacy,” he said."

Thanks for that. I posted a link to another article in which Moncef Slaoui was interviewed. I expect a celebrity scientist to come along soon to say it'll be 8% efficacy. Good news isn't allowed.

suicide_circus

Have we ever created a vaccine for a virus with a 95%+ survival rate?

Dionaibh

suicide_circus wrote: »

Have we ever created a vaccine for a virus with a 95%+ survival rate?

We haven't, but we need one for this 99.9% survival rate one. We also need health passports, health apps, and masks.

Hmmzis

suicide_circus wrote: »

Have we ever created a vaccine for a virus with a 95%+ survival rate?

Yes, lots.

Sconsey

suicide_circus wrote: »

Have we ever created a vaccine for a virus with a 95%+ survival rate?

Took 20 seconds to Google measles and see that the death rate in the US is 0.2%..(so 99.8% survival rate). Probably the most well known disease we vaccinate for.

charlie14

Dionaibh wrote: »

One reads of people dying in car crashes being classified as a Covid death. It's ridiculous.

Italy and Spain are particular cases. Apart from a couple of months early on in the year there would be no sign of a pandemic were it not for the media and social media. A Spanish doctor was interviewed a couple of months ago and said that it was media hysteria that was driving the alleged second wave. He and his colleagues hadn't even noticed.

I disagree re Ireland. I don't think people would have noticed, just as people don't notice bad flu years. Ivor Cummins shows how there was a couple of months of spread and that it has been over since around May. It's now a casedemic.

Just to be sure we are talking about the same Ivor Cummins.
Is he the same Ivor Cummins a biochemical engineer that has been running scared for months now from fact checks of his posts by Dr. Dominic Pimenta a cardiology registrar ?


With first the U.S.A. being a "particular case", and now after your suggestion we move to Europe Italy and Spain are also "particular cases", we have moved on to a the musings of, imo, a rather dodgy nutritionist whose musings do not stand up to fact checks, anonymous people dying in car crashes, and a Spanish doctor who hasn`t noticed that in the past week alone Spain has recorder 51,134 new Covid-19 cases and 981 deaths.
I`m getting the distinct feeling that what you read involves skipping over a great deal of verifiable facts while searching find dodgy and anonymous musings that suit your narrative.

Stark

charlie14 wrote: »

Just to be sure we are talking about the same Ivor Cummins.
Is he the same Ivor Cummins a biochemical engineer that has been running scared for months now from fact checks of his posts by Dr. Dominic Pimenta a cardiology registrar ?

From his bio, he graduated from chemical engineering in 1990 then worked various corporate jobs in most of the time since before discovering there was money to be made in nutritional quackery in the last 4 - 5 years.

Not exactly someone I'd be trusting over people who've spent their careers specialising in public health and epidemiology.

mohawk

suicide_circus wrote: »

Have we ever created a vaccine for a virus with a 95%+ survival rate?

It’s not all about survival for some diseases such as measles, rubella and mumps. You can be left will long term complications such as hearing loss, infertility, permanent brain damage etc.

suicide_circus

Makes sense

charlie14

Dionaibh wrote: »

All three would put years on you. But Fauci is particularly bad. Whenever there's any bit of good news out pops that guy with his doom and negativity.

I made a point in another post about how we in the West have to put up with non-stop hysteria, doomsday scenarios, and celebrity scientists with a different opinion every other day. Another one this morning with a Spanish doctor saying masks will be required for two years. I asked a Brazilian friend of mine what things are like there and she said people are out and about, going to restaurants, dancing in the street, beaches are packed etc. No hysteria. The culture outside of the West is very different. Life is more simple and people appreciate that there are more important things in life than work, hysteria, social media, celebrity scientists. So that's why I have consistently recommended that people emigrate, if they can.

Your Brazilian friend either does not come from Amazonas, or is unaware of the situation there.
On September 21st. a research report s published on medRvix that claimed herd immunity had been achieved in Manaus, capital city of the state of Amazonas with a population consisting of 2.2 million of the states total population of 3.8 million.
September 25th. all bars, restaurants and beaches closed due to a large increase in Covid-19 cases.

is_that_so

Gael23 wrote: »

Doesn’t look like the HSE are capable of mass rollout of any vaccine
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40061852.html

It's not their fault, it is delayed deliveries of the vaccine.