COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Gael23

martingriff wrote: »

That is the very definition of a virus a treatment helps it does not cure. If it did we would not need a vaccine. You could say the same about the flu or any virus that need a vaccine

But no treatment works?

FintanMcluskey

dominatinMC wrote: »

I know Luke is an eternal optimist, but good to hear one of the experts so upbeat and positive. Given his favourable outlook on the situation, I'm shocked RTE let him on The Late Late Show a few weeks ago!

https://www.newstalk.com/news/luke-oneill-course-well-get-back-pre-covid-world-will-take-time-1094674

I used to hate him.

But on reflection, and his recent interviews, he is far from the most pessimistic out there.

Something happened Pat Kenny though, he has actually lost his marbles with some of his rants

Marhay70

Gael23 wrote: »

But no treatment works?

Was not the Orange One cured overnight?

The_Brood

Since Ireland is subject to NPHET's divine decrees, everyone can forget about being allowed near a vaccine any time soon. We will need to wait for every other European country to test a vaccine 10 times over before we even begin considering it, and every professor to stamp his approval before it is "safe" for us to give it a go. Better to live the next decade in perpetual lockdown then go against Holy Tony's word.

Gael23

Is this persons opinion worth noting? https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/reasons-to-believe-covid-19-pandemic-will-ease-next-spring-says-health-expert-1.4388702?mode=amp

begbysback

The_Brood wrote: »

Since Ireland is subject to NPHET's divine decrees, everyone can forget about being allowed near a vaccine any time soon. We will need to wait for every other European country to test a vaccine 10 times over before we even begin considering it, and every professor to stamp his approval before it is "safe" for us to give it a go. Better to live the next decade in perpetual lockdown then go against Holy Tony's word.

I know a man who can get his hands on a few jabs, won’t be cheap as it’s black market but he says the stuff is kosher.

Hmmzis

The FDA has approved remdesivir for treatment of Covid-19.

Despite the poor results in the WHO trials, it still has its utility in shortening hospital stays and in immunocompromised patients.

martingriff

Gael23 wrote: »

But no treatment works?

But the treatments that are used are used against the symptoms and not the Virus. That is what they treat This is true for all viruses. That is why they create a vaccine. There is no treatment specifically (except the vaccine) for mumps measles, flu.

martingriff

The_Brood wrote: »

Since Ireland is subject to NPHET's divine decrees, everyone can forget about being allowed near a vaccine any time soon. We will need to wait for every other European country to test a vaccine 10 times over before we even begin considering it, and every professor to stamp his approval before it is "safe" for us to give it a go. Better to live the next decade in perpetual lockdown then go against Holy Tony's word.

You maybe wosshing me here but some people may actually believe this. F off with the scaremongering and conspiracy theory

Hmmzis

Gael23 wrote: »

But no treatment works?

Dexamethasone works, to a point.
Improved nursing protocols help.

The problem with viral diseases is often not the viral infection itlsef (again, to a point) but an off target immune response. In the case of SARS-cov-2 that's no different, might be even more so than with others. Preventing the infection in the first place or getting the body to do proper early viral control is the best approach. After that it's down to damage limitation.

ACitizenErased

Further to what Hmmzis posted
https://twitter.com/afp/status/1319393089249792009?s=21

giveitholly

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Further to what Hmmzis posted
https://twitter.com/afp/status/1319393089249792009?s=21

Will this make much of a difference in the overall treatment of covid?

Kickstart1.3

giveitholly wrote: »

Will this make much of a difference in the overall treatment of covid?

No. Its just part of the b0llsh1t that is Covid

hynesie08

giveitholly wrote: »

Will this make much of a difference in the overall treatment of covid?

Theoretically, and I'm open to correction, it would be the third phase attack after a vaccine and an inhaler. If we end up with all 3 and all 3 are proven to be effective, we'll be in a much better place.

Gael23

My concern is our government seem fixated on case numbers, a vaccine won’t stop new cases so where does that leave us. That why I find it hard to see a way out of this

FishOnABike

Gael23 wrote: »

My concern is our government seem fixated on case numbers, a vaccine won’t stop new cases so where does that leave us. That why I find it hard to see a way out of this

How wouldn't a vaccine stop new cases? Vaccines have been effective against numerous infectious diseases, eliminating or vastly reducing the incidence of what were once very common illnesses in developed countries, smallpox, polio, diphtheria, measles, mumps, rubella, etc...

henke

Gael23 wrote: »

My concern is our government seem fixated on case numbers, a vaccine won’t stop new cases so where does that leave us. That why I find it hard to see a way out of this

In the app it tells you 1) daily case number, 2) current hospitalisations and 3) number in ICU.

When the vaccine starts rolling out to the vulnerable wouldn't the hope be that points 2 and 3 drop off with not a whole lot of importance on point 1. If we had 5,000 daily cases and 5 in hospital and 1 in ICU I don't think there would be a need for restrictions. I'm no expert but aren't 2 and 3 the important ones and its the rate these go up that drive restrictions?

opinionated3

LBC radio reporting that the latest update on the Oxford/ astrazeneca vaccine is highly positive. It basically does exactly what it set out to do: activate a strong immunity to the virus. ( I'm trying to find some positive articles out there rather than getting depressed from RTE😂)

ACitizenErased

opinionated3 wrote: »

LBC radio reporting that the latest update on the Oxford/ astrazeneca vaccine is highly positive. It basically does exactly what it set out to do: activate a strong immunity to the virus. ( I'm trying to find some positive articles out there rather than getting depressed from RTE��)

I'll help you out
Coronavirus: Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine 'behaves as desired', analysis finds

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-behaves-as-desired-analysis-finds-12111085

Thierry12

opinionated3 wrote: »

LBC radio reporting that the latest update on the Oxford/ astrazeneca vaccine is highly positive. It basically does exactly what it set out to do: activate a strong immunity to the virus. ( I'm trying to find some positive articles out there rather than getting depressed from RTE😂)

Wonder do they do know if its sterilising yet?

How could they test that without infecting people though or maybe alot of the trialists were close contacts to positive cases and they can draw conclusion on that

It sounds great anyway, hope we get good news regularly with it now until released, will shut the doomers up

Someone should let Pat Kenny know, he's been torture today

opinionated3

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I'll help you out
Coronavirus: Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine 'behaves as desired', analysis finds

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-behaves-as-desired-analysis-finds-12111085

Apologies if this has been asked already but are the EU purchasing this vaccine as well as others?

ACitizenErased

opinionated3 wrote: »

Apologies if this has been asked already but are the EU purchasing this vaccine as well as others?

They are yes.

Today, the European Commission has reached a first agreement with the pharmaceutical company AstraZeneca to purchase a potential vaccine against COVID-19 as well as to donate to lower and middle income countries or re-direct to other European countries. This is following the positive steps regarding the conclusion of exploratory talks with Sanofi-GSK announced on 31 July and with Johnson & Johnson on 13 August. Once the vaccine has proven to be safe and effective against COVID-19, the Commission now has agreed the basis for a contractual framework for the purchase of 300 million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, with an option to purchase 100 million more, on behalf of EU Member States. The Commission continues discussing similar agreements with other vaccine manufacturers.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_1438

Le Bruise

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I'll help you out
Coronavirus: Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine 'behaves as desired', analysis finds

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-behaves-as-desired-analysis-finds-12111085

But, but, but all those opinion pieces told me not to get my hopes up and live in a bubble of anxiety until at least 2023????;)

CIARAN_BOYLE

Gael23 wrote: »

My concern is our government seem fixated on case numbers, a vaccine won’t stop new cases so where does that leave us. That why I find it hard to see a way out of this

They are fixated on care numbers because the relationship between cases, hospitalizations and deaths are well established.

They can say if theres 1k cases today x of those will be admitted in the next week.

If the relationship changes their modeling will change.

mandrake04

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I'll help you out
Coronavirus: Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine 'behaves as desired', analysis finds

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-behaves-as-desired-analysis-finds-12111085

This is very reassuring thankfully, I heard that the Pfizer vaccine didn’t really reach the expectations of immune response in older patients.

Le Bruise

mandrake04 wrote: »

This is very reassuring thankfully, I heard that the Pfizer vaccine didn’t really reach the expectations of immune response in older patients.

Where did you hear that (not being smart, just interested)?

iguana

mandrake04 wrote: »

This is very reassuring thankfully, I heard that the Pfizer vaccine didn’t really reach the expectations of immune response in older patients.

It's not coming quite as fast but I seem to recall something about Moderna working quite well in older patients.

mandrake04

Le Bruise wrote: »

Where did you hear that (not being smart, just interested)?

Heard it on radio the other day, over 56s wasn’t as good as 18-55. It’s early days yet.

mandrake04

iguana wrote: »

It's not coming quite as fast but I seem to recall something about Moderna working quite well in older patients.

I did read something about that, so you are right.

Hmmzis

mandrake04 wrote: »

Heard it on radio the other day, over 56s wasn’t as good as 18-55. It’s early days yet.

The only data available to the public is the phase 1 set, the overall binding titers are not significantly different. The IC50 values are, maybe that's the source of those comments?

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.17.20176651v1.full.pdf

If anyone has any links for the BNT162b2 version with data past 28 days, it might show a better picture?

hmmm

Germany planning to start vaccinations before the end of the year
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-germany-vaccine-idUKKBN277342

"The health ministry plans to create 60 special vaccination centres to ensure the vaccines can be stored at the proper temperature and has asked the country’s 16 federal states to provide addresses for them by Nov. 10, Bild reported without citing its sources."

hmmm

Convalescent plasma is ineffective. Very disappointing, and in fact it looks like it may even be slightly harmful for some.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4072

"The desperation engendered by covid-19 demands that we strongly resist the urge to succumb to pandemic research exceptionalism.13 High quality clinical research must be an integral part of a coordinated international response.13 Specifically, scientific validity is a necessary component of ethical research.14 Low quality research not only wastes scarce resources, it is also inherently unethical.14"

stephenjmcd

hmmm wrote: »

Germany planning to start vaccinations before the end of the year
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-germany-vaccine-idUKKBN277342

"The health ministry plans to create 60 special vaccination centres to ensure the vaccines can be stored at the proper temperature and has asked the country’s 16 federal states to provide addresses for them by Nov. 10, Bild reported without citing its sources."

Germany preparing to roll out Pfizer then.

You can be dam sure these vaccination centres will be unbelievable well set up and run. Everyone could learn something from the Germans organisation.

We can only hope that the HSE & Dept of Health have some sort of plan

Level 42

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Germany preparing to roll out Pfizer then.

You can be dam sure these vaccination centres will be unbelievable well set up and run. Everyone could learn something from the Germans organisation.

We can only hope that the HSE & Dept of Health have some sort of plan

The HSE lads can't even organize hand sanatizer for the schools no faith in them

eigrod

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Germany preparing to roll out Pfizer then.

You can be dam sure these vaccination centres will be unbelievable well set up and run. Everyone could learn something from the Germans organisation.

We can only hope that the HSE & Dept of Health have some sort of plan

Outsource it to the Germans?

lbj666

henke wrote: »

In the app it tells you 1) daily case number, 2) current hospitalisations and 3) number in ICU.

When the vaccine starts rolling out to the vulnerable wouldn't the hope be that points 2 and 3 drop off with not a whole lot of importance on point 1. If we had 5,000 daily cases and 5 in hospital and 1 in ICU I don't think there would be a need for restrictions. I'm no expert but aren't 2 and 3 the important ones and its the rate these go up that drive restrictions?

You would still need restrictions to sustain the virus at 5,000 cases at day, otherwise it is would spread at R0=6 like it was early march.
Also 5,000 cases a day is 1,000,000 cases in 6months even if that's among the normally healthy but unvacinated, thats still a lot of people who will develop long covid symptom or even die from it.

Add to the fact that a vacine will not have 100% efficacy among the vulverable who first get it and the people not in good enough health to take a vacine, you can see experts are saying its not a silver bullet and why Meehole said to expect restrictions to continue well into 2021 (now he didnt phrase is very well or in the best tone)

Best we can hope for is get over this level 5, get over a post xmas spike in feb-march. Vaccine rollout in Q2 wait for the actual efficacy to show in the statistics and perhaps sustain level 1- 2 restrictions til vaccines roll out amongst the rest of the population and/or more effective treatments at the onset and reliable rapid testing.

Away With The Fairies

I hope the Oxford vaccine helps when it comes out. But when do people see normal back again? We're almost at the end of 2020, soon into 2021 and I still don't see any normal for 2021 yet. Maybe the end of next year but is that too optimistic at this stage?

funnydoggy

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I hope the Oxford vaccine helps when it comes out. But when do people see normal back again? We're almost at the end of 2020, soon into 2021 and I still don't see any normal for 2021 yet. Maybe the end of next year but is that too optimistic at this stage?

Once the vulnerable are vaccinated, I can see some restrictions being lifted. Spring maybe?

According to historians, pandemics typically have two types of endings: the medical, which occurs when the incidence and death rates plummet, and the social, when the epidemic of fear about the disease wanes.

NYTimes.com



I feel the social end is going to happen much sooner than the medical end.

plodder

hmmm wrote: »

Convalescent plasma is ineffective. Very disappointing, and in fact it looks like it may even be slightly harmful for some.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4072

"The desperation engendered by covid-19 demands that we strongly resist the urge to succumb to pandemic research exceptionalism.13 High quality clinical research must be an integral part of a coordinated international response.13 Specifically, scientific validity is a necessary component of ethical research.14 Low quality research not only wastes scarce resources, it is also inherently unethical.14"

Disappointing. I wonder does this have implications for the Regeneron artificial antibody product?

tayto lover

Level 42 wrote: »

The HSE lads can't even organize hand sanatizer for the schools no faith in them

In fairness it’s hardly their fault if the manufacturers put Methylene into their product instead of Ethylene.
Just to be fair minded about it.

ShineOn7

=stephenjmcd;115029191

We can only hope that the HSE & Dept of Health have some sort of plan

micks_address

tayto lover wrote: »

In fairness it’s hardly their fault if the manufacturers put Methylene into their product instead of Ethylene.
Just to be fair minded about it.

you'd have thought someone might have ran down the list of ingredients and thought hmm maybe this isn't suitable or at least used it themselves first... local primary had been using it and its taken paint off doors and discolored floors... any of the staff that have used they have their skin peeling off their hands.. most knew it was rank and brought their own in...day one they said it was awful smell etc but no one cared. its a hugely disappointing thing to let happen... telling everyone that kids are safe in school while poisoning them with dept sourced hand sanitizer.. im sure there will be lawsuits over it and quite rightly so

ShineOn7

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I hope the Oxford vaccine helps when it comes out. But when do people see normal back again? We're almost at the end of 2020, soon into 2021 and I still don't see any normal for 2021 yet. Maybe the end of next year but is that too optimistic at this stage?

Depends on what you accept as "normal" again I think

There'll be no magical day when everyone says "it's over!", more so a (very) slow fade back to things somewhat "normal"

Sconsey

micks_address wrote: »

you'd have thought someone might have ran down the list of ingredients and thought hmm maybe this isn't suitable or at least used it themselves first... local primary had been using it and its taken paint off doors and discolored floors... any of the staff that have used they have their skin peeling off their hands.. most knew it was rank and brought their own in...day one they said it was awful smell etc but no one cared. its a hugely disappointing thing to let happen... telling everyone that kids are safe in school while poisoning them with dept sourced hand sanitizer.. im sure there will be lawsuits over it and quite rightly so

Jesus would ya listen to yourself, it's a faulty product, there is now a product recall out for it. Maybe you should be having a go at the company that made a balls of it instead of blaming the government.

Gael23

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Depends on what you accept as "normal" again I think

There'll be no magical day when everyone says "it's over!", more so a (very) slow fade back to things somewhat "normal"

Life before March would be my definition

ShineOn7

Gael23 wrote: »

Life before March would be my definition

Same here

But I don't realistically see that till at least 2023

Irish Stones

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Depends on what you accept as "normal" again I think

There'll be no magical day when everyone says "it's over!", more so a (very) slow fade back to things somewhat "normal"

There will be no normal again, there will be a new normal and we will adapt to it. Those who are very young kids now will grow up in this new norm and they won't care. For those who are older (or much older) it might be harder to adjust to a different life style.

All pandemics have led to a new normal. Most of us aren't old enough to remember what life was before the last pandemics. Most of us know this "normal", which is different to what was the "normal" before that.

micks_address

Sconsey wrote: »

Jesus would ya listen to yourself, it's a faulty product, there is now a product recall out for it. Maybe you should be having a go at the company that made a balls of it instead of blaming the government.

If it was a product on the shelf that people chose to buy and it had to be recalled then fair enough..if it's a product you are mass supplying to schools and forcing kids and teachers to use then you better make sure it's at least safe

ShineOn7

Irish Stones wrote: »

There will be no normal again

Nonsense

2025 would like a word with your statement

landofthetree

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Germany preparing to roll out Pfizer then.

You can be dam sure these vaccination centres will be unbelievable well set up and run. Everyone could learn something from the Germans organisation.

We can only hope that the HSE & Dept of Health have some sort of plan

They will let a private companies run them as well if their hospital system is anything to go by.

We should be putting out the tenders now.