COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

stephenjmcd

CruelSummer wrote: »

In time, children can get vaccinated when a tried & tested candidate is identified.

But you need to have them in trials to have such a tried and tested vaccine. Can't have one without the other. They can hardly test on adults and say yup thats good it can be rolled out to kids without testing in their age groups.. no there has to be tests on said age group.

Its always been the way, there needs to be testing across all age groups to see the immune response and thats exactly whats going on. So far we've had very positive reports on the immune reposnse in adults and elderly

Irish Stones

CruelSummer wrote: »

In time, children can get vaccinated when a tried & tested candidate is identified. We all know that no matter how many trials there are, until mass vaccination happens, it won’t be truly known how each vaccine will perform or what its side effects will be. I’m also skeptical that vaccines will have long term immunity - but the jury and data is out on whether or not Covid will return every year or not.

I have been reprimanded for saying similar things in another thread

charlie14

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/26/health/covid-vaccine-pfizer-trial-kids/index.html

Children as young as 12 being used as guinea pigs in the States to trial the new Pfizer Covid vaccine - how is this ethical? This vaccine isn’t in development nearly long enough to be used on children in my view.

The fact that they are doing this would suggest the data on safety from adult trials must be very positive.

Russman

charlie14 wrote: »

The fact that they are doing this would suggest the data on safety from adult trials must be very positive.

I wonder if their data is ready but they’re keeping schtum until after Nov 3rd. Reading their CEO’s letter a couple of weeks ago, it really read to me that they knew it worked.

WoollyRedHat

mandrake04 wrote: »

I think I read some about Germany using it in Airports, but their case numbers are shyte so it would be hard to know if it worked or not in that scenario.

You said it worked elsewhere can you give examples?

Yes it has been working in the likes of Japan who have been using rapid testing since June and South Korea, since they first detected outbreak back in March in Daegu. South Korea have been using SD Biosensor rapid antigen test and Ginkgo Bioworks has now secured access to.

'"In conversations with operational leaders across industries, it has become clear that we will need a number of different testing solutions to effectively test communities at scale," said Matt McKnight, Chief Commercial Officer of Ginkgo Bioworks. "Incorporating antigen testing as a rapid approach to suppress potential outbreaks will be a key component to reuniting schools, offices, and communities and curbing the spread of the virus."

Gingko Bioworks runs a fully automated COVID-19 testing facilitiy in Boston that use sequencing machines to detect viral RNA. It hopes to be able to run 1 million samples each day by end of the year
and has received funding from NIH grants to rapidly scale up their testing.

Rapid Testing is also starting to roll out in several countries in Europe after being given approval last month. Excellent article below published in The Atlantic back in August interviewed Michael Mina, professor of epidemiology at Harvard, where he studies the diagnostic testing of infectious diseases, amongst others, about benefits of rapid testing in controlling outbreaks.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/08/how-to-test-every-american-for-covid-19-every-day/615217/

I also read in The Journal that we are looking at RT-LAMP testing, hopefully this will make a difference.

https://www.livemint.com/science/health/johnson-johnson-sees-covid-19-vaccine-available-as-soon-as-january-11603694159939.html

Johnson & Johnson could see it's vaccine available for emergency use as early as January.

funnydoggy

Hardyn wrote: »

https://www.livemint.com/science/health/johnson-johnson-sees-covid-19-vaccine-available-as-soon-as-january-11603694159939.html

Johnson & Johnson could see it's vaccine available for emergency use as early as January.

That's three on the horizon - Oxford/AstraZeneca, Pfizer and J&J?

Excellent!!

funnydoggy

funnydoggy wrote: »

That's three on the horizon - Oxford/AstraZeneca, Pfizer and J&J?

Plus Moderna makes four.

funnydoggy

Hardyn wrote: »

Plus Moderna makes four.

That's the mRNA vaccine isn't it?

Wow. Reading about how that type of delivery could potentially be used for cancer treatments and the like. Amazing.

CruelSummer

stephenjmcd wrote: »

But you need to have them in trials to have such a tried and tested vaccine. Can't have one without the other. They can hardly test on adults and say yup thats good it can be rolled out to kids without testing in their age groups.. no there has to be tests on said age group.

Its always been the way, there needs to be testing across all age groups to see the immune response and thats exactly whats going on. So far we've had very positive reports on the immune reposnse in adults and elderly

I understand but at the moment, there’s no data available for us to see re adults. So why rush to trail children - that’s my point. I think there are ethical questions in doing that. But as I said, I don’t have their data to hand.

JacksonHeightsOwn

Hardyn wrote: »

Plus Moderna makes four.

Sputnik to................... ðŸ˜

Isn't there a fair few Chinese ones as well?

I'm not slating the Chinese biomedical industry, but I hope its better than their home appliances industry, I've gone through more Chinese made toasters and kettles then I could shake a big stick at

Russman

Out of curiosity, for those on the thread knowledgeable in such things, which of the candidate vaccines would you prefer to take and why ? In layman’s terms.

Do you think we’ll have any choice in the matter ? Like if the govt get 500k of each, would it be random as to which one your GP gets ?

timsey tiger

mandrake04 wrote: »

Sounds good.

I think this be a better candidate than Pfizer.

How much off this is due to the science and how much to marketing and the anglosphere?

funnydoggy

funnydoggy wrote: »

That's the mRNA vaccine isn't it?

Wow. Reading about how that type of delivery could potentially be used for cancer treatments and the like. Amazing.

Pfizer is an mRna vaccine too. You're right though. Has huge potential for benefits in healthcare.

funnydoggy

Hardyn wrote: »

Pfizer is an mRna vaccine too. You're right though. Has huge potential for benefits in healthcare.

Now that I did not know.


Class.

Stheno

Hardyn wrote: »

Pfizer is an mRna vaccine too. You're right though. Has huge potential for benefits in healthcare.

Whats so good about mRna if you don't mind me asking?

President Nicolas Maduro said Venezuelan scientists have isolated a molecule that inhibits the Covid-19 virus and will ask the World Health Organization to evaluate its possible use on a global scale.

The active ingredient is a derivative of ursolic acid from a plant and non-toxic to humans, Maduro said in an appearance on state television Sunday. Six months of research at the government-backed IVIC scientific institute led to the discovery, he said.

“The molecule will be mass-produced and delivered worldwide for the cure of Covid-19,” according to Maduro.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-25/venezuela-s-maduro-presents-molecule-that-inhibits-covid-19

funnydoggy

Deleted User wrote: »

President Nicolas Maduro said Venezuelan scientists have isolated a molecule that inhibits the Covid-19 virus and will ask the World Health Organization to evaluate its possible use on a global scale.

The active ingredient is a derivative of ursolic acid from a plant and non-toxic to humans, Maduro said in an appearance on state television Sunday. Six months of research at the government-backed IVIC scientific institute led to the discovery, he said.

“The molecule will be mass-produced and delivered worldwide for the cure of Covid-19,” according to Maduro.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-25/venezuela-s-maduro-presents-molecule-that-inhibits-covid-19

They'd have to start trials but that's exciting. Another possible weapon to add to the arsenal.

James Bond Junior

Bar the bloomberg article and one other, very little else to be found from googling that. Hope it isn't just clickbait.

ACitizenErased

[Deleted User] wrote: »

President Nicolas Maduro said Venezuelan scientists have isolated a molecule that inhibits the Covid-19 virus and will ask the World Health Organization to evaluate its possible use on a global scale.

The active ingredient is a derivative of ursolic acid from a plant and non-toxic to humans, Maduro said in an appearance on state television Sunday. Six months of research at the government-backed IVIC scientific institute led to the discovery, he said.

“The molecule will be mass-produced and delivered worldwide for the cure of Covid-19,” according to Maduro.


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-25/venezuela-s-maduro-presents-molecule-that-inhibits-covid-19

That’s never going to work anyway. The EU will never admit the socialists came first

lurker2000

So, I'm returning to work this week having been off due to COVID - My date of return has been cleared by the HSE but I've been informed at the last minute that my colleagues want me to get another test to prove I'm negative. Anybody got this done in the Dublin region that you can recommend?

suicide_circus

Let your colleagues pay for it

Beanybabog

The tropical medical bureau has them but they’re pretty dear

stargazer 68

Unless you have been at home for 12 weeks another test wont show negative! When the HSE test the staff at nursing homes etc if you have had a positive test you cant be tested for another 12 weeks as you will still show remains of the virus.

Now my time could be inaccurate but that's from what I remember from drawing up the staff lists to submit to the HSE

Sheep Shagger

Since when do colleagues decide, what is your HR saying?

How do your colleagues even know you went for a test?

PmMeUrDogs

If you're medically cleared as fit to return, and your boss is refusing to allow you to work without yet another test, surely they should be paying you for your contracted hours too as you're available and willing to work?

ShineOn7

"Vaccine Early Next Year!" shouts the front page of today's Daily Star with a picture of Leo

A bit misleading to their already not very bright audience I think and it'll give them false hope


IF Ireland gets one by Q1 next year (and I highly doubt the HSE won't completely balls it up somehow) then surely it'll all go to Frontline workers

lurker2000

Hi - The boss has agreed to pay for it .... but I'm pretty bummed out as I have abided by all the restrictions and thankfully had not passed it to any of my contacts due to safe practices. He's in bind I guess with a few of them getting together on this. I can understand people are worried but I've done my isolation as required.

is_that_so

ShineOn7 wrote: »

"Vaccine Early Next Year!" shouts the front page of today's Daily Star with a picture of Leo



A bit misleading to their already not very bright audience I think and it'll give them false hope



IF Ireland gets one by Q1 next year (and I highly doubt the HSE won't completely balls it up somehow) then surely it'll all go to Frontline workers

Q3-Q4 for most people in that scenario.

is_that_so

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That’s never going to work anyway. The EU will never admit the socialists came first

A slightly more detailed article.


https://thecanadian.news/2020/10/26/nicolas-maduro-venezuela-has-obtained-a-medicine-that-cancels-the-coronavirus-100/

L'prof

lurker2000 wrote: »

Hi - The boss has agreed to pay for it .... but I'm pretty bummed out as I have abided by all the restrictions and thankfully had not passed it to any of my contacts due to safe practices. He's in bind I guess with a few of them getting together on this. I can understand people are worried but I've done my isolation as required.

Don’t take it personally. It’s more than likely a waste of time and money but if it puts your coworkers at ease when they may have vulnerable family to worry about then what’s the harm. Especially if your boss is paying for it. If I was asked to do it at my own expense I’d point blank refuse however as you’ve already followed the HSE guidelines

lurker2000

Thanks al; - tbh I just feel bummed that its so last minute and that any of them could have it now without knowing, yet I'm the leper.

Anyway, any ideas where I could get it done - will ring the GP in the morning for suggestions also ...

Jinglejangle69

lurker2000 wrote: »

Thanks al; - tbh I just feel bummed that its so last minute and that any of them could have it now without knowing, yet I'm the leper.

Anyway, any ideas where I could get it done - will ring the GP in the morning for suggestions also ...

Roc doc.

astrofool

funnydoggy wrote: »

That's the mRNA vaccine isn't it?

Wow. Reading about how that type of delivery could potentially be used for cancer treatments and the like. Amazing.

It's amazing, but a pandemic like this could end up having a positive effect for a range of diseases, as well as enable us to fight future pandemics much more effectively.

Kerry25x

stargazer 68 wrote: »

Unless you have been at home for 12 weeks another test wont show negative! When the HSE test the staff at nursing homes etc if you have had a positive test you cant be tested for another 12 weeks as you will still show remains of the virus.

Now my time could be inaccurate but that's from what I remember from drawing up the staff lists to submit to the HSE

This is completely right, you will like get a positive result again as you're shedding dead virus for weeks after. Working with covid patients I have seen this happen plenty of times.

mean gene

is_that_so wrote: »

Q3-Q4 for most people in that scenario.

any link to that

marno21

astrofool wrote: »

It's amazing, but a pandemic like this could end up having a positive effect for a range of diseases, as well as enable us to fight future pandemics much more effectively.

We got away lightly here. A virus that causes disease with an IFR ten times that of Covid-19 would still only be around 5%. Depending on other factors, possibly higher. A virus with pre-symptomatic transmission with a R0 similar to SARS-CoV-2, with a far higher rate is not inconceivable. Hopefully this pandemic wakes us up to the threat of rapidly spreading infectious disease the same was SARS was the reason Taiwan/HK/South Korea were so well able to contain this one.

Russman

marno21 wrote: »

We got away lightly here. A virus that causes disease with an IFR ten times that of Covid-19 would still only be around 5%. Depending on other factors, possibly higher. A virus with pre-symptomatic transmission with a R0 similar to SARS-CoV-2, with a far higher rate is not inconceivable. Hopefully this pandemic wakes us up to the threat of rapidly spreading infectious disease the same was SARS was the reason Taiwan/HK/South Korea were so well able to contain this one.

True enough.
But this one really is right in the sweet spot for what it’s doing imo. Not the most virulent but virulent enough, and not the most deadly, but deadly enough, to cause worldwide mayhem. Any deadlier or more virulent and people would be far more accepting of things and/or it could burn itself out.

Beasty

Threads merged

drunkmonkey

It's reported in the news this morning that the antibodies don't last long. Does that mean any vaccine will suffer the same faith and not offer protection without constant boosters?

It would also imply the the longer we drag this out the greater chance of reinfection for those who already had it.

Dressoutlet

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's reported in the news this morning that the antibodies don't last long. Does that mean any vaccine will suffer the same faith and not offer protection without constant boosters?

It would also imply the the longer we drag this out the greater chance of reinfection for those who already had it.

Antibodies from vaccines tend to be stronger than antibodies created by natural exposure, also there's more to it than just antibodies, we have a whole host of armour in our immune systems.

is_that_so

mean gene wrote: »

any link to that

Not a specific one but it's been mentioned quite a lot as an estimate. It's a logical timeframe if, as expected, those most at risk are targeted first.

drunkmonkey

We can't test for T-cells at the moment from my understanding of the technology I don't think there even sure if they provide protection, considering the amount of asymptomatic people there must be some underlying immunity we already have from catching other coronaviruses.
It's probably something they need to figure out quickly at the moment all modelling assumes no underlying protection.

Hmmzis

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's reported in the news this morning that the antibodies don't last long. Does that mean any vaccine will suffer the same faith and not offer protection without constant boosters?

It would also imply the the longer we drag this out the greater chance of reinfection for those who already had it.

Let me guess, they're referencing the 3 month follow-up study in Nature, right?


Here is one out to 6 months, peer reviewed and all:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/eji.202048970

The two main conflicting factors in all of these longitudal studies are detection assays used and selected time frames for follow-ups.

Irish Stones

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's reported in the news this morning that the antibodies don't last long.

My personal opinion is that once a person gets infected and recovers from it, they are immune, or we would see several thousands of cases of people getting reinfected, which is not happening.
There are hundreds of thousands of new cases daily, but a very little number of reinfections.

drunkmonkey

Hmmzis wrote: »

Let me guess, they're referencing the 3 month follow-up study in Nature, right?

No the imperial college london. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54696873

average_runner

Irish Stones wrote: »

My personal opinion is that once a person gets infected and recovers from it, they are immune, or we would see several thousands of cases of people getting reinfected, which is not happening.
There are undreds of thousands of new cases daily, but a very little number of reinfections.

In fairness, considering the amount of people infected in Ireland is low, it will be hard to see re-infected cases. But Sweden and the US have reported some already.


Don't think there is any immunity to any respiratory disease out there, so why is this different?

Irish Stones

average_runner wrote: »

In fairness, considering the amount of people infected in Ireland is low, it will be hard to see re-infected cases. But Sweden and the US have reported some already.


Don't think there is any immunity to any respiratory disease out there, so why is this different?

Please, bear with me.
Say that an infection takes a month on average to clear (30 days).
Say that the antibodies vanish after three months (90 days).
Now, Joe gets the coronavirus, and is clear from it on day 30, while his antibodies vanish on day 120.
Now, Joe would be at risk again, say from day 150?

Over here we had 100,000 cases of infections in March.
Then we had 100,000 further cases in April, and about 30,000 new cases in May.
They're 230+k in just three months.

Now, all these people, unless they unfortunately died (33k died in three months), are again subject to the infection, because for each of them the 120+ days have elapsed.

Say that about 1% of them gets the infection again (which is a very conservative number given the current environmental situation with 20,000+ cases everyday), so I'd expect that 2,000 persons would be reinfected.
Not all of them get on the news, say that only 1% of them get on the news (and I'm being conservative again here), we should have heard that in the last two months 20 persons, in this country only, have been reinfected.
And I haven't heard anything of the kind.

Just imagine if it isn't the 1% of the 1%, numbers should be incredibly high, and yet I haven't heard any news of the kind.

So I could say that people who get the coronavirus and recover from it are immune.

A few reported cases in the world is not surprise, after all we have 41+ millions cases worldwide, I would be surprised of the opposite.

I'm open to any explanation.

average_runner

Irish Stones wrote: »

Please, bear with me.
Say that an infection takes a month on average to clear (30 days).
Say that the antibodies vanish after three months (90 days).
Now, Joe gets the coronavirus, and is clear from it on day 30, while his antibodies vanish on day 120.
Now, Joe would be at risk again, say from day 150?

Over here we had 100,000 cases of infections in March.
Then we had 100,000 further cases in April, and about 30,000 new cases in May.
They're 230+k in just three months.

Now, all these people, unless they unfortunately died (33k died in three months), are again subject to the infection, because for each of them the 120+ days have elapsed.

Say that about 1% of them gets the infection again (which is a very conservative number given the current environmental situation with 20,000+ cases everyday), so I'd expect that 2,000 persons would be reinfected.
Not all of them get on the news, say that only 1% of them get on the news (and I'm being conservative again here), we should have heard that in the last two months 20 persons, in this country only, have been reinfected.
And I haven't heard anything of the kind.

Just imagine if it isn't the 1% of the 1%, numbers should be incredibly high, and yet I haven't heard any news of the kind.

So I could say that people who get the coronavirus and recover from it are immune.

A few reported cases in the world is not surprise, after all we have 41+ millions cases worldwide, I would be surprised of the opposite.

I'm open to any explanation.

How many people do you hear getting the flu more than once in a year ? Yet there is no immunity for it ? Even when a vaccine comes it will be only 70% effective per person, same as the flu vaccine

Marhay70

I could be completely wrong but logically i fail to see why antibodies would persist after recovery. Surely antibodies are there while your body is fighting the disease and once it has cleared there is no longer any need to produce them, the body uses other means to protect you.