Pubs when/will they re-open - the Megathread

messin doorman

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Waiting till 10/8 is to see how are infection numbers are by then after the first waive of restriction liftings. They could gave lifted them across the economy at once but if it didn't work and infections spiked the hospitals would never cope.

I sort of get it with pubs in that they need to be semi cautious. If people start in a pub with social distancing, after a few pints they can lose their inhibitions and may (possibly without even realising it) forget about social distancing.

In saying that they can't be shut indefinitely. If you measure peoples temperatures on entry, don'tvallowe absolutely jammed situations and there is rapid testing and contact tracing in place then perhaps it could be relaxed.

Well taking your first para. That seems to equate to the official line which i disagree with. I mean infection numbers couldn’t be much lower could they?

I mean a few short weeks ago Leo said we’d have 15k by end of March. Didn’t happen. And Paul Reid HSE said he “couldn’t dispute it” when someone suggested that over one million people in Ireland could get infected. Seems to me infection numbers could not be much lower at all and it’s difficult to see those numbers being less in August

IAMAMORON

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Waiting till 10/8 is to see how are infection numbers are by then after the first waive of restriction liftings. They could gave lifted them across the economy at once but if it didn't work and infections spiked the hospitals would never cope.

I sort of get it with pubs in that they need to be semi cautious. If people start in a pub with social distancing, after a few pints they can lose their inhibitions and may (possibly without even realising it) forget about social distancing.

In saying that they can't be shut indefinitely. If you measure peoples temperatures on entry, don'tvallowe absolutely jammed situations and there is rapid testing and contact tracing in place then perhaps it could be relaxed.

It is all about politically covering their ass at this point Shagger. By dangling the 10th August out there they get to appease people like me who now see light at the end of the tunnel. They are also satisfying the buzz killers, if things do get worse with the numbers they can extend the ban.

Unless there is a second wave I reckon it is all over now anyways. The press will be sniffing around for a rural outbreak but I am getting the distinct feeling that we are on the panic winddown. In a few weeks garden parties will be basically given the green light, I can see them being popular as long as any rain phucks off.

rubadub

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Appearnelty the main argument is people drink in pubs so you cant social distance, yet if you mention how people drink in restaurants its oh thats different they dont drink to excess, now I've been in some nice restaurants and I've seen people getting absolutely hammered while having a meal, 1 bottle of wine turns in 2 and so on. Argument null and void. It's an attitude of oh if I cant have some fun and a few drinks then nobody else can.

of course you will get some drunks in restaurants, just like in a cinema. I have never had drunks in restaurants putting their arms around me blabbering crap in my ear.

If the restaurants start to get treated like pubs they will just ban serving of alcohol, there was already talk of this.

On good friday no pubs were forced to close, I know the Leopardstown Inn was one that opened on good friday and served food. A more fair thing would be to ban serving alcohol, and let pubs open and not serve alcohol.

The majority of restaurants are different from the majority of pubs and to deny it is just being disingenuous. Even in a very busy restaurant restaurant you are not in a mass huddle with people breathing all over you for up to 15mins desperately trying to order your food/drink, and having to shout over peoples head "THE ROAST BEEF!!! AND THE HOUSE RED!!!!"
"HOW DO YOU WANT THE BEEF??"
"MEDIUM!!!!"

I can't recall ever having to wait any real time to use a toilet in a restaurant either. Some queues in pubs are going down narrow corridors with passing people in very close contact. It will become apparent that many pubs have been taking the piss for years just because they all copy each other -so it is good in a way to see them being compared to restaurants.

IAMAMORON

Foodie alert.

yourdeadwright

I reckon this time next mó th there will be little to no cases and pubs will reopen by mid July

Eric Cartman

praying for the 10th of august opening. have already told clients I'm unavailable that day and that'll be the real celebration.

Limpy

The day's of chatting up women are over for awhile. Some women will need another way to fullfil there ego's as they won't have to reject any lads.

The plus side is the annoying drunk bar fly will have to stay 6 feet away.

Collie D

PTH2009 wrote: »

What's the story in the UK for pubs ?

In general?

They’re ****e chains with no soul and staffed by disinterested students whose heads would explode if they had to serve more than one customer at a time. For a country with a pub culture they’ve made a bollocks of it in the bigger towns and cities.

If you meant in the current situation then I don’t know.

Snow Garden

IAMAMORON wrote: »

On what basis though?

I mean why would they wait so long?

I thought I made the reasons clear. Ok so I know there is a 'roadmap' and it was badly needed. But people are assuming it will run to plan. That wont happen. More than likely there will be spikes of Covid 19 cases as restrictions get relaxed and people get complacent. The metrics for phase exits haven't been published for obvious reasons. So these spikes will likely cause one or more of the phases to be deferred by another 3 weeks. That means we could be looking at opening pubs in September/October. Do you think the government will risk opening pubs before the start of flu season and the kids go back to school??? No chance. Zero. The flu season doesn't happen because the flu especially loves the cold weather - it starts because the cold pushes people indoors which leads to higher virus transmission (colds, flus, norovirus etc). Do you think the HSE will recommend opening pubs so that they are dealing with Covid19, the seasonal flu and existing flu strains, the winter vomit bug etc etc? Remember what the hospitals were like in winter before Covid 19?

So no, the pubs will not open until April 2021 at the earliest. Maybe there will be an interim trial for certain larger pubs but it wont work. Optics only. Obviously there would be outrage if the government admitted the scenario above which is why they wont. Softly softly.

My own guess would be late May or early June in 2021.
.

IAMAMORON

Snow Garden wrote: »

I thought I made the reasons clear.

No you certainly did not.

Snow Garden wrote: »

Ok so I know there is a 'roadmap' and it was badly needed. But people are assuming it will run to plan. That wont happen. More than likely there will be spikes of Covid 19 cases as restrictions get relaxed and people get complacent.

This is a complete pile of subjective nonsense. You are attempting to reenact some sort of chaos theory based on your own convolution. I cannot respect such bias. You don't get to decide how other people react to the lockdown withdrawal plan, assuming it is going to fail is lazy. Personally I don't see any further spikes, but let's see.

Snow Garden wrote: »

So these spikes will likely cause one or more of the phases to be deferred by another 3 weeks. That means we could be looking at opening pubs in September/October.

You are now compounding your subjective cynicism with your own interpretation of how the government will react to any perceived failing of the lockdown reversal. Let me point out now that I have lost complete respect for your argument.

Snow Garden wrote: »

Do you think the government will risk opening pubs before the start of flu season and the kids go back to school??? No chance. Zero. The flu season doesn't happen because the flu especially loves the cold weather - it starts because the cold pushes people indoors which leads to higher virus transmission (colds, flus, norovirus etc). Do you think the HSE will recommend opening pubs so that they are dealing with Covid19, the seasonal flu and existing flu strains, the winter vomit bug etc etc? Remember what the hospitals were like in winter before Covid 19?

Nice rant, but given that the onset of the winter flu virus has never before influenced the gubberment to close pubs I cannot see a precedence for it here. You are now reaching far to hard.

Snow Garden wrote: »

So no, the pubs will not open until April 2021 at the earliest. Maybe there will be an interim trial for certain larger pubs but it wont work. Optics only. Obviously there would be outrage if the government admitted the scenario above which is why they wont. Softly softly.
.

You are on the wind up. But none of your argument has any genuine basis. You are trying too hard and that has clouded your cynicism. Had you gone for a few weeks I could have given your argument more respect. Now I don't even respect you, never mind your argument.

Gael23

I can’t see how social distancing can possibly be operated in a pub. It will be extremely difficult

PTH2009

Gael23 wrote: »

I can’t see how social distancing can possibly be operated in a pub. It will be extremely difficult

Sure wasn't it enforced the start of March before the government ordered them to close

Unclebumble

Pubs that serve food must hold a Restaurant Certificate which then entitled them to trade as a restaurant and therefore will be allowed to open on the 29th June like other restaurants and cafes.

However, there are different licensing restrictions in place for a restaurant over a bar.
Some examples are:
Customers must be served at a table.
Alcohol can only be served with a meal.
Payment for Alcohol must be with the food.
You can only serve until 30mins after the meal.

Along with the Covid-19 restrictions such as social distancing they will have to operate very differently to how they operated before the virus.

With the restrictions on Pubs due to be lifted 10th August, that will remove the necessity for food whilst drinking but obviously there will still be Covid-19 restrictions that will need to be managed.

The only feasible way of controlling social distancing whilst in either a restaurant or a pub will be by the following:

Restricted entrance - someone taking people direct to their table, like previously in a restaurant.
People can’t just walk in and sit/stand where they want.

The position of the tables to ensure distancing.

You cannot allow free movement of customers around the premises apart from going to the toilet.

Speaking of the toilet, I have no idea of how that will be managed.

Staff can still deliver food to a table and get paid because it’ll be such a brief contact.

You can go into a place with your mates and eat a meal and have a drink, like in the old day, sure you might even watch a match in that way if sport has restarted. But you’ll have to be seated at a table and that table will be distanced from another.

Pubs can open under this sort of model, but until Social Distancing is no longer required, then the days of busy, crowded pubs will not be able to occur.

Whether this is feasible for the publican to sustain or if their is an appetite by the customer to go to this type of pub is to be seen.

Everything depends on for how long social distancing is required - that is the deciding factor.

Snow Garden

IAMAMORON wrote: »

No you certainly did not.
This is a complete pile of subjective nonsense. You are attempting to reenact some sort of chaos theory based on your own convolution. I cannot respect such bias. You don't get to decide how other people react to the lockdown withdrawal plan, assuming it is going to fail is lazy. Personally I don't see any further spikes, but let's see.

You are now compounding your subjective cynicism with your own interpretation of how the government will react to any perceived failing of the lockdown reversal. Let me point out now that I have lost complete respect for your argument.

Nice rant, but given that the onset of the winter flu virus has never before influenced the gubberment to close pubs I cannot see a precedence for it here. You are now reaching far to hard.

You are on the wind up. But none of your argument has any genuine basis. You are trying too hard and that has clouded your cynicism. Had you gone for a few weeks I could have given your argument more respect. Now I don't even respect you, never mind your argument.

I don't think you understand what 'subjective' means even though you used the word twice. I think deep down you know I am probably right but you weren't sure how to respond so you decided to make it personal somehow and a but weird.

This line: "given that the onset of the winter flu virus has never before influenced the gubberment to close pubs" is stupidity on your part. You completely missed the point but I think you know that. I will be nice - the point is that the hospitals are already exceptionally busy in winter with other viruses (e.g flu, norovirus) so a spike in Covid 19 would break the system.

By the way, my subjective opinion is that I would dearly love for the pubs to be open. I really miss my pints. I really do.

However I was being objective

Some bedtime reading for you - these are pre Covid 19 articles...

https://www.thejournal.ie/hse-winter-plan-4891509-Nov2019/
https://www.thejournal.ie/hospital-trolleys-winter-4312347-Oct2018/
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/number-of-patients-admitted-shoots-up-over-50-in-past-year-970266.html
http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2014/the-reason-for-the-season-why-flu-strikes-in-winter/
https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/qa/why-is-the-flu-more-common-in-the-winter

Why is the flu more common in the winter? We spend more time indoors and have closer contact with each other, which makes it easier for the virus to spread.

Dr. Bre

Pubs will just have to have staff that control the amount of people in a pub. Of course they will lose out on money cos of less people being in a pub but we won’t see packed pubs again until a vaccine.

IAMAMORON

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Pubs will just have to have staff that control the amount of people in a pub. Of course they will lose out on money cos of less people being in a pub but we won’t see packed pubs again until a vaccine.

A lot of people seem to be buying into this "new normal" scenario that is unwinding.

The pandemic is now over, all you are seeing is a PR exercise from gubberments terrified of being perceived to be phucking things up unnecessarily. This staged lockdown removal is a lot more about slowly getting back to normal and pacifying a paranoid public. Pubs will be busy again long before a vaccine I can only imagine, if we ever see a vaccine.

They will open the boozers last, but only because they don't want to upset the buzz killers, not because they reckon it is a risk to the health system. The gradual release of restrictions is sensible all things considered, but pubs, hotels and restaurants need to open soon. The gubberment know this.

Once you turn the taps back on you will find it very difficult to "unpack" pubs, if you can at all. The reality will be a couple of weeks of shoulder shrugging and possibly some pub shaming from the doomers, buzz killers and the press and then it will be all systems go again. You will get some annoying press the weeks around any opening, but it is going to happen. As I said a few weeks of tender steps and then everyone back on the pints fulltime. I can't wait.

snotboogie

Unclebumble wrote: »

Pubs that serve food must hold a Restaurant Certificate which then entitled them to trade as a restaurant and therefore will be allowed to open on the 29th June like other restaurants and cafes.

However, there are different licensing restrictions in place for a restaurant over a bar.
Some examples are:
Customers must be served at a table.
Alcohol can only be served with a meal.
Payment for Alcohol must be with the food.
You can only serve until 30mins after the meal.

Along with the Covid-19 restrictions such as social distancing they will have to operate very differently to how they operated before the virus.

With the restrictions on Pubs due to be lifted 10th August, that will remove the necessity for food whilst drinking but obviously there will still be Covid-19 restrictions that will need to be managed.

The only feasible way of controlling social distancing whilst in either a restaurant or a pub will be by the following:

Restricted entrance - someone taking people direct to their table, like previously in a restaurant.
People can’t just walk in and sit/stand where they want.

The position of the tables to ensure distancing.

You cannot allow free movement of customers around the premises apart from going to the toilet.

Speaking of the toilet, I have no idea of how that will be managed.

Staff can still deliver food to a table and get paid because it’ll be such a brief contact.

You can go into a place with your mates and eat a meal and have a drink, like in the old day, sure you might even watch a match in that way if sport has restarted. But you’ll have to be seated at a table and that table will be distanced from another.

Pubs can open under this sort of model, but until Social Distancing is no longer required, then the days of busy, crowded pubs will not be able to occur.

Whether this is feasible for the publican to sustain or if their is an appetite by the customer to go to this type of pub is to be seen.

Everything depends on for how long social distancing is required - that is the deciding factor.

This except you wouldn't be able to sit at a table with your friends if they were not in your household, right?

Mister Vain

Limpy wrote: »

The day's of chatting up women are over for awhile. Some women will need another way to fullfil there ego's as they won't have to reject any lads.

The plus side is the annoying drunk bar fly will have to stay 6 feet away.

I suppose there's tinder and instagram for that.

PommieBast

Mister Vain wrote: »

I suppose there's tinder and instagram for that.

Going that way for some time..

Clonmel1000

Just popped into this thread for a look for the first time. I’m a pioneer so relatively unaffected by the pubs closing personally. However I understand completely people who enjoys the few pints and the social side of it would want things to reopen as do I from an economic and social point of view. What’s again interesting about this is some of the same posters who are against international travel restarting until a vaccine is found are in this thread also lobbying for the same with pubs reopening. This virus has opened my eyes to a lot of sad individuals who appear only happy when everyone is living the same pathetic existence that they inhabit. I hope to see both pubs and travel soon not to mention hairdressers and scores of other small businesses.

CrabRevolution

PommieBast wrote: »

Going that way for some time..

I'm curious about the mid 2000s in that graph. Online dating skyrocketed in the 90s and early 00s, but then flatlined for about 5 years before rapidly rising again until the present. I wonder what caused the stall in the mid 00s?
Also meeting in bars was pretty much static for 30 years until it rose again at the end of the 00s at the same time online dating went up again.
It's tough to find an explanation. The online slowdown seems to have occurred before the financial crash so that can't be it.

PommieBast

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I'm curious about the mid 2000s in that graph. Online dating skyrocketed in the 90s and early 00s, but then flatlined for about 5 years before rapidly rising again until the present. I wonder what caused the stall in the mid 00s?

Dot-com crash I suspect. It gave IT a reputation that took most of the decade to finally shake off.

Also meeting in bars was pretty much static for 30 years until it rose again at the end of the 00s at the same time online dating went up again.
It's tough to find an explanation. The online slowdown seems to have occurred before the financial crash so that can't be it.

The paper alleges that many people who actually made first contact online but first met in a bar/restaurant tended to state the latter.

Mister Vain

PommieBast wrote: »

Going that way for some time..

Interesting graph. I expected the co-workers to be a lot higher TBH. I don't actually know any couples that have met online.

stephenjmcd

The Vintners’ Federation of Ireland (VFI) and Licensed Vintners’ Association (LVA) have written to the Government accepting their invitation to discuss the Government Roadmap and its implications for pubs as a matter of urgency. This follows commitments made by Ministers over the weekend that the Government will meet with the two representative bodies for publicans over course of the coming week.

As part of their discussions with the Government, the two organisations will be pressing for pubs to reopen at the same time and on the same basis as cafes and restaurants. Recognising the challenge of maintaining social distancing in a hospitality environment, the organisations will also be putting forward radical changes to the normal operations of bars in order to protect public health.

These measures include:
• Bars will become dispense bars only with no sitting, standing, ordering, payment or drinking at the bar allowed.
• Table service will be a requirement with pubs only serving customers seated at tables.
• The numbers on the premises would be confined to no more than 4 per every 10 square metres.
• A maximum of 6 people would be permitted at any one table.
• Customers will be required to use hand sanitiser upon entry.
• All customers must remain seated.
• Staff will be fully trained in the new procedures. They will also be asked to maintain a safe distance from customers when taking orders and to wash their hands thoroughly every 30 minutes.
• The utilisation of outdoor spaces to enhance social distancing.
• Procedures implemented to ensure safe use of toilet facilities, which may include limits on the numbers using toilets at any one time.
• No live music or DJs.
• Gardaí / HSE will have the power to close any business who is flouting the public health guidelines.

The two organisations will also stress they remain fully committed to doing what is necessary to protect the health and safety of all staff and customers.

Strict protocols setting out how staff and customers are required to comply with social distancing in hospitality businesses will be developed in conjunction with National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) and the Department of Health. Those protocols would apply to all hospitality businesses. The publican groups would look to have the temporary measures reviewed by NPHET on an ongoing basis, with a view to resuming normal trading when it is safe to do so.

Speaking about the proposed measures, Donall O’Keeffe, Chief Executive of the LVA said, “We fully respect the need to continue to protect the public health. We have repeatedly proven this commitment, not least in the fact that our sector was the first to close across the country. We also believe that if other venues who serve food and alcohol are allowed to reopen in Phase 3, then pubs should be granted the same opportunity to trade. We don’t believe it is in any way appropriate that the Government should apply one rule for some hospitality businesses and another rule for others.

“We are making a series of radical proposals to how bars should operate for the reopening scenario. Trading will be extremely difficult under these circumstances. There is no doubt that the pub experience as we know it will have to change dramatically. Many pubs may choose not to reopen as it simply won’t be financially viable under these conditions. However, for those who want to trade, these measures will have the essential impact of protecting the health and wellbeing of staff and customers alike,” Mr. O’Keeffe said.

Padraig Cribben, Chief Executive of the VFI said, “We were pleased to see Minister Humphreys and Minister Harris commit to organising a meeting this week to discuss the reopening of pubs in line with restaurants and cafés. We have now written to the Government to ensure this meeting happens at the earliest possible opportunity. What is clear is that the current roadmap plan isn’t tenable and will lead to confusion in the hospitality sector if it is not addressed.

“The public health restrictions will present real challenges to all hospitality venues, it doesn’t matter if they are a pub, a restaurant, a café or a hotel. There is no denying that and there is no getting around it. Addressing those public health requirements will be necessary for all hospitality businesses whenever they reopen. Pubs across Ireland are up to that challenge and will do what is required for maintaining a safe and healthy place of business,” Mr. Cribben concluded.

RebelRising18

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The Vintners’ Federation of Ireland (VFI) and Licensed Vintners’ Association (LVA) have written to the Government accepting their invitation to discuss the Government Roadmap and its implications for pubs as a matter of urgency. This follows commitments made by Ministers over the weekend that the Government will meet with the two representative bodies for publicans over course of the coming week.

As part of their discussions with the Government, the two organisations will be pressing for pubs to reopen at the same time and on the same basis as cafes and restaurants. Recognising the challenge of maintaining social distancing in a hospitality environment, the organisations will also be putting forward radical changes to the normal operations of bars in order to protect public health.

These measures include:
• Bars will become dispense bars only with no sitting, standing, ordering, payment or drinking at the bar allowed.
• Table service will be a requirement with pubs only serving customers seated at tables.
• The numbers on the premises would be confined to no more than 4 per every 10 square metres.
• A maximum of 6 people would be permitted at any one table.
• Customers will be required to use hand sanitiser upon entry.
• All customers must remain seated.
• Staff will be fully trained in the new procedures. They will also be asked to maintain a safe distance from customers when taking orders and to wash their hands thoroughly every 30 minutes.
• The utilisation of outdoor spaces to enhance social distancing.
• Procedures implemented to ensure safe use of toilet facilities, which may include limits on the numbers using toilets at any one time.
• No live music or DJs.
• Gardaí / HSE will have the power to close any business who is flouting the public health guidelines.

The two organisations will also stress they remain fully committed to doing what is necessary to protect the health and safety of all staff and customers.

Strict protocols setting out how staff and customers are required to comply with social distancing in hospitality businesses will be developed in conjunction with National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) and the Department of Health. Those protocols would apply to all hospitality businesses. The publican groups would look to have the temporary measures reviewed by NPHET on an ongoing basis, with a view to resuming normal trading when it is safe to do so.

Speaking about the proposed measures, Donall O’Keeffe, Chief Executive of the LVA said, “We fully respect the need to continue to protect the public health. We have repeatedly proven this commitment, not least in the fact that our sector was the first to close across the country. We also believe that if other venues who serve food and alcohol are allowed to reopen in Phase 3, then pubs should be granted the same opportunity to trade. We don’t believe it is in any way appropriate that the Government should apply one rule for some hospitality businesses and another rule for others.

“We are making a series of radical proposals to how bars should operate for the reopening scenario. Trading will be extremely difficult under these circumstances. There is no doubt that the pub experience as we know it will have to change dramatically. Many pubs may choose not to reopen as it simply won’t be financially viable under these conditions. However, for those who want to trade, these measures will have the essential impact of protecting the health and wellbeing of staff and customers alike,” Mr. O’Keeffe said.

Padraig Cribben, Chief Executive of the VFI said, “We were pleased to see Minister Humphreys and Minister Harris commit to organising a meeting this week to discuss the reopening of pubs in line with restaurants and cafés. We have now written to the Government to ensure this meeting happens at the earliest possible opportunity. What is clear is that the current roadmap plan isn’t tenable and will lead to confusion in the hospitality sector if it is not addressed.

“The public health restrictions will present real challenges to all hospitality venues, it doesn’t matter if they are a pub, a restaurant, a café or a hotel. There is no denying that and there is no getting around it. Addressing those public health requirements will be necessary for all hospitality businesses whenever they reopen. Pubs across Ireland are up to that challenge and will do what is required for maintaining a safe and healthy place of business,” Mr. Cribben concluded.

Doesn't sound like much craic with those regulations.
However, I can't see the pubs and its customers sticking to all those rules.

stephenjmcd

RebelRising18 wrote: »

Doesn't sound like much craic with those regulations.
However, I can't see the pubs and its customers sticking to all those rules.

Not much of a difference for me tbh, if I'm out with 4 or 5 friends at a table we usually order with lounge staff as it is, would rarely be up at the bar.

Yeah no music and all of that but that doesn't bother me anyway, we would be in for a catch up after work on a Friday or lunch on a Sunday.

rob316

Its the sort of common sense and treating people like adults that every sector needs to get this country open again. All for it

0gac3yjefb5sv7

RebelRising18 wrote: »

Doesn't sound like much craic with those regulations.
However, I can't see the pubs and its customers sticking to all those rules.

Sounds great, no queueing at the bar. Table service which is ideal.

RebelRising18

Harlee Purple Trance wrote: »

Sounds great, no queueing at the bar. Table service which is ideal.

Fair point. Will be great to get them open again, whenever that may be.

TheDoctor

Dont see why any of the locals out our way couldnt follow those suggestions and be back open in phase 3 (end of June).

City centre pubs now is a different story.