Pubs when/will they re-open - the Megathread

whisky_galore

briany wrote: »

but after a certain point, life becomes unlivable if you have to go around every day treating every person you meet like they're carrying it.

Life becomes unlivable.

The generations now alive in this country by and large never had to fight in a war, did not endure much in the lines of extreme natural disasters and the vast vast majority of us never saw a hungry day in our lives.

pmurphy00

I've a pub in the west of Ireland.
I can't see us being open before July.

the real question is what has to happen for us to open?
I would say a week of zero new cases?
or something very similar.
thoughts?

never_mind

pmurphy00 wrote: »

I've a pub in the west of Ireland.
I can't see us being open before July.

the real question is what has to happen for us to open?
I would say a week of zero new cases?
or something very similar.
thoughts?

It’s a bit bad how this hasn’t been communicated to you... but they probably don’t know themselves!

trapp

Eventually the human need for friendship and relationships overcomes the fear of death.

That has always happened through history and will happen again in this case.

Life will be back up and running by the summer because human beings are social people.

I wouldn't consider the boards opinion as worth much on this front as forums by their nature tend to attract many people who are not particularly social in real life.

In real life humans need to meet each other and have relationships with each other.

And again to repeat, Eventually the human need for friendship and relationships overcomes the fear of death.

pmurphy00

never_mind wrote: »

It’s a bit bad how this hasn’t been communicated to you... but they probably don’t know themselves!

i guess it's such a shock event that nobody knows when,where or how it ends.

Jpmarn

The pub reopening times may vary around the country. It may be reopened in areas where there isn’t too many cases of the disease sooner but could be much delayed in Dublin and any other areas that are badly hit.

hatrickpatrick

The lack of empathy for people who are naturally extroverted is truly astounding tbh. Maybe as other posters have pointed out it's because websites like Reddit, Boards etc potentially skew more towards an introverted crowd, but regardless, there's been an incredibly nasty and heartless element to a lot of the commentary I've seen this week.

Nobody is defending the muppets who were packing the pubs last weekend or who were thronging beaches today. But at the same time, this "how hard can it be to isolate yourself indoors for a few months" attitude is f*cking moronic.

We're just coming out of an extremely mucky and miserable Winter even by Irish standards. The temperature plummeted immediately after Halloween and the incessant rain rolled in just after Christmas - this is the first week I can remember so far in 2020 where we've had entire days without rain falling, and that's saying a lot even for this country. People have already endured long periods of being stuck in the house due to this - in fact, I remember a discussion at some stage in February on the subject of how most of the proper storms we've had seemed to always arrive like clockwork on a Friday night and keep the place under a siege of rain for the entire weekend. On top of this, January is generally a very quiet month for peoples' social lives and even that takes its toll on people, which is where the concept of the third week in January being the most depressing week of the year originated.

If you're genuinely the kind of person who doesn't need physical interaction with other humans to get by, then that's fantastic and fair play to you. There is, however, a whole other segment of society out there - extroverts - for whom the intense feeling of loneliness caused by this kind of isolation is utterly soul crushing.

I'm not saying those people should break the guidelines or that they're justified in doing so. But I am saying that people should try to be sympathetic. "Social distancing" as a concept is the very definition hell for a very large number of people, and as humans are inherently social creatures it's absurd to claim that this is somehow unreasonable.

You don't have to excuse or justify the people who are being ignorant gobsh!tes by flagrantly taking the piss, such as those lining up at the Glendalough chip vans earlier this weekend. But have some compassion FFS. Social isolation has been scientifically documented for decades upon decades to have real, measurable, and devastating impacts not just on mental health but on physical health also, and to downplay this with the "people need to get over themselves" attitude is cruel and frankly nonsensical.

Yes, we need to socially isolate at the moment. But it's hard. The people who are finding it emotionally soul destroying are not weak or selfish, they're human beings who have been hardwired by millions of years of successful evolution to feel an innate need for the social company of other human beings. They are not exaggerating or being snowflakes in expressing how difficult this situation is, they are experiencing and expressing a measurable and medically recognised precursor to depression.

To act as if this is something we can or should just ignore as if it isn't a legitimate and very dangerous aspect of what our country is going through right now is to be entirely ignorant of how peoples' brains work.

Honestly, in a more general sense beyond COVID-19, the complete lack of empathy between extroverts and introverts is something which has always massively pissed me off - and I'm acknowledging in this very sentence that this phenomenon does go both ways, and it's utterly sh!tty on the part of both sides to act as if the others' perspective is inferior or invalid. But in this particular situation, introverts are going to have an easier time and extroverts are going to be hit particularly hard. There's absolutely no need, if you're one of the lucky ones who doesn't need to socialise physically in order to function psychologically, to behave like a smug, holier-than-thou, elitist asshole about it.

trapp

trapp wrote: »

Eventually the human need for friendship and relationships overcomes the fear of death.

That has always happened through history and will happen again in this case.

Life will be back up and running by the summer because human beings are social people.

I wouldn't consider the boards opinion as worth much on this front as forums by their nature tend to attract many people who are not particularly social in real life.

In real life humans need to meet each other and have relationships with each other.

And again to repeat, Eventually the human need for friendship and relationships overcomes the fear of death.

C'mon man - It's been what, a fortnight?




:pac:

I've my hand out for the Covid 19 emergency payment as my job (Sole Trader) has practically vanished, and is likely to remain that way until we're taken off 'pause'.

That's a 6 week payment. I presume these measures are all in place with the assumption that 6 weeks is the time frame the govt. have put on things to delay the virus, "flatten the curve" and get everyone back to work again.

Whether that's the case or not, who knows, but my presumption on pubs, cafes, etc. is based on that 6 week payment.I just hope that if they drag their feet, they extend the Covid emergency payment too. I don't want to have to make a 'proper' jobseekers application when I reckon (hope) i'll be back to work when things resume.

Eric Cartman

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The lack of empathy for people who are naturally extroverted is truly astounding tbh. Maybe as other posters have pointed out it's because websites like Reddit, Boards etc potentially skew more towards an introverted crowd, but regardless, there's been an incredibly nasty and heartless element to a lot of the commentary I've seen this week.

Nobody is defending the muppets who were packing the pubs last weekend or who were thronging beaches today. But at the same time, this "how hard can it be to isolate yourself indoors for a few months" attitude is f*cking moronic.

We're just coming out of an extremely mucky and miserable Winter even by Irish standards. The temperature plummeted immediately after Halloween and the incessant rain rolled in just after Christmas - this is the first week I can remember so far in 2020 where we've had entire days without rain falling, and that's saying a lot even for this country. People have already endured long periods of being stuck in the house due to this - in fact, I remember a discussion at some stage in February on the subject of how most of the proper storms we've had seemed to always arrive like clockwork on a Friday night and keep the place under a siege of rain for the entire weekend. On top of this, January is generally a very quiet month for peoples' social lives and even that takes its toll on people, which is where the concept of the third week in January being the most depressing week of the year originated.

If you're genuinely the kind of person who doesn't need physical interaction with other humans to get by, then that's fantastic and fair play to you. There is, however, a whole other segment of society out there - extroverts - for whom the intense feeling of loneliness caused by this kind of isolation is utterly soul crushing.

I'm not saying those people should break the guidelines or that they're justified in doing so. But I am saying that people should try to be sympathetic. "Social distancing" as a concept is the very definition hell for a very large number of people, and as humans are inherently social creatures it's absurd to claim that this is somehow unreasonable.

You don't have to excuse or justify the people who are being ignorant gobsh!tes by flagrantly taking the piss, such as those lining up at the Glendalough chip vans earlier this weekend. But have some compassion FFS. Social isolation has been scientifically documented for decades upon decades to have real, measurable, and devastating impacts not just on mental health but on physical health also, and to downplay this with the "people need to get over themselves" attitude is cruel and frankly nonsensical.

Yes, we need to socially isolate at the moment. But it's hard. The people who are finding it emotionally soul destroying are not weak or selfish, they're human beings who have been hardwired by millions of years of successful evolution to feel an innate need for the social company of other human beings. They are not exaggerating or being snowflakes in expressing how difficult this situation is, they are experiencing and expressing a measurable and medically recognised precursor to depression.

To act as if this is something we can or should just ignore as if it isn't a legitimate and very dangerous aspect of what our country is going through right now is to be entirely ignorant of how peoples' brains work.

Honestly, in a more general sense beyond COVID-19, the complete lack of empathy between extroverts and introverts is something which has always massively pissed me off - and I'm acknowledging in this very sentence that this phenomenon does go both ways, and it's utterly sh!tty on the part of both sides to act as if the others' perspective is inferior or invalid. But in this particular situation, introverts are going to have an easier time and extroverts are going to be hit particularly hard. There's absolutely no need, if you're one of the lucky ones who doesn't need to socialise physically in order to function psychologically, to behave like a smug, holier-than-thou, elitist asshole about it.

An excellent post , have to say I cant wait till were back in full swing, a packed pub, a nightclub , warehouse after party , probably the only things that could really fix the draining tiring isolation of this. So many snide comments from introverts ‘just play some games or read a book’

Hector Savage

one year/18 months, whenever there is a vaccine ...

Hector Savage

pmurphy00 wrote: »

I've a pub in the west of Ireland.
I can't see us being open before July.

the real question is what has to happen for us to open?
I would say a week of zero new cases?
or something very similar.
thoughts?

The problem is even if we have a week/2 weeks of zero new cases when country is in lockdown as soon as you open things up again, cases will spring up again and we're back to square 1, the ONLY way this ends is the vaccine, which is at least a year away, maybe 18 months.

ShyMets

Hector Savage wrote: »

The problem is even if we have a week/2 weeks of zero new cases when country is in lockdown as soon as you open things up again, cases will spring up again and we're back to square 1, the ONLY way this ends is the vaccine, which is at least a year away, maybe 18 months.

I agree that we will only see an end to this when we develop a proper vaccine. But I cant see a country shunting all non essential business for a year to 18 months.

I suspect we may see gradual reopening of business if in 6/8 weeks if things begin to calm down

never_mind

Hector Savage wrote: »

one year/18 months, whenever there is a vaccine ...

Yeah good luck to you with that one... I'd like to see an Ireland with basically a shut down economy for 18 months!

kenmm

never_mind wrote: »

Yeah good luck to you with that one... I'd like to see an Ireland with basically a shut down economy for 18 months!

..be nice if most of the people survive as well..

never_mind

kenmm wrote: »

..be nice if most of the people survive as well..

Yeah it would, wouldn't it? It'd be nice to run a hospital and not pay their staff as well and see how many people will survive.

JCX BXC

The talk of an 18 month shutdown is absurd and laughable at best, trolling and scaremongering at worst.

You'd be naive to think that's how it'll pan out.

kenmm

never_mind wrote: »

Yeah it would, wouldn't it? It'd be nice to run a hospital and not pay their staff as well and see how many people will survive.

Its obv bad if you loose your job - I'm on the list too - but that where Gov should step in and make sure everyone is covered.

kenmm

Look - this thread is a bit of a joke. Its laughable if you think there will be any sort of normality in a few weeks or even months. I would be hopeful that by the end of the year at least the threat of virus will have calmed down and the recession will 'just' be as bad as the last one..

If we are all on the canal drinking cans by June - I would be delighted! But I don't think those painting a bleaker picture are scaremongering. You only have to look at the comparisons between Italy and Taiwan for example. Weeks of inaction in one country, vs complete control in the other.

Scotty #

ShyMets wrote: »

...I cant see a country shunting all non essential business for a year to 18 months.

I couldn't see us closing pubs for St. Patrick's Day, nor see us making 150k+ workers unemployed overnight. Keeping non essential business closed for a year+ is not beyond the realms of possibility at all.

ShyMets wrote: »

I suspect we may see gradual reopening of business if in 6/8 weeks if things begin to calm down

If things calm down it will be because the stringent measures we have taken have worked. It would be foolish to relax those measures if they are working. As evidence in other countries has shown, the tighter the lockdown, the slower the spread.

never_mind wrote: »

Yeah good luck to you with that one... I'd like to see an Ireland with basically a shut down economy for 18 months!

The alternative is tens, maybe even hundreds of people dying per day. They're not going to open non essential businesses as long as long as people are dying.

The ONLY way things can return to normal is if we are vaccinated or have herd immunity but bare in mind that herd immunity is still only a theory, no evidence yet that it would work.

never_mind

kenmm wrote: »

Look - this thread is a bit of a joke. Its laughable if you think there will be any sort of normality in a few weeks or even months. I would be hopeful that by the end of the year at least the threat of virus will have calmed down and the recession will 'just' be as bad as the last one..

If we are all on the canal drinking cans by June - I would be delighted! But I don't think those painting a bleaker picture are scaremongering. You only have to look at the comparisons between Italy and Taiwan for example. Weeks of inaction in one country, vs complete control in the other.

The thing is it that it IS scare-mongering. Within 18 months a viable vaccine will be either ready to be released or will have already begun to be administered. I would imagine that much earlier than that (speculation, obv) effective treatments will be designed making the virus less of a threat to the population including vulnerable patients.

I think that a lot of guys on boards and in the general media WANT this to go on for longer than it has to. Simply put, it CAN'T go on for that long. Money needs to circulate. People need jobs. Money = services = treatment. Yeah, we can get a loan off the ECB, but sure money won't mean anything if there isn't a viable economy behind it.

Scotty #

JCX BXC wrote: »

The talk of an 18 month shutdown is absurd and laughable at best, trolling and scaremongering at worst.

You'd be naive to think that's how it'll pan out.

I don't think you understand in the slightest what's going on.

I think (HOPE!) we will have a vaccine before then but we may not.

The Nal

Scotty # wrote: »

I don't think you understand in the slightest what's going on.

I think (HOPE!) we will have a vaccine before then but we may not.

And if we don't, and the pubs etc open, everyone is going to start infecting people again and we're back to square one. People dying.

Best case, we'll have a vaccine within 12 months. I can't see how anything changes before then.

SuperRabbit

The only way the results of this poll could be right would be if we close all borders and keep them closed till we have a vaccine and all the healthcare staff and all the vulnerable people vaccinated. I know it's mostly community transmission right now, but once we flatten the curve we can get this to drop down and not be a problem, but it will be brought back to us again by US and UK people and by whatever country in the southern Hemisphere makes the same mistakes as the US and the UK. This will last 2 years or more if we let it keep coming back in.

I love tourists, I love immigrants, I lived abroad for years and I think free travel is a fundamental human right for all non-criminals, I believe in open borders. I rely on people from other countries for my job, we literally don't have a single customer who isn't from abroad, but every country who gets this under control, and I'm hoping we will be one, needs to close their borders.

I even think we should stop non-vulnerable people from leaving Dublin right now, since the rest of the country has so few cases and we need to keep it like that. Let all the vulnerable people out into the country side where they will be safer and lock down Dublin and Cork.

Scotty #

The Nal wrote: »

And if we don't, and the pubs etc open, everyone is going to start infecting people again and we're back to square one. People dying.

Best case, we'll have a vaccine within 12 months. I can't see how anything changes before then.

Completely agree.

skallywag

Six months to two years.

SuperRabbit

I love it when people say we are scaremongering. The death rate in confirmed cases in Italy is 9% right now. Now, I know that's because they aren't testing people with mild or no symptoms. But still, 9%! And with the number infections still growing and only starting to slow down... Scare mongering!? 9%! Tell that to all the people who lost their loved ones. Tell them the economy is more important and they should all go out to work.

kenmm

And even if we control it here to some degree, there are other countries who have been even worse than us at trying to stop it (USA for example) - What happens when their economy crashes?

Truth is we have no clue how this will play out. Its not going to be good and it will have a lasting impact. We may see some level of normality in some areas of life within a few months, but others areas may take a very long time to return (for example, many borders will close and probably remain closed, travel industry will be on its knees and getting used to cheap weekends away may be a thing of the past).

The only thing we know for sure - Stay home and minimise the spread until some of this is worked out.

Scotty #

SuperRabbit wrote: »

The death rate in confirmed cases in Italy is 9% right now. Now, I know that's because they aren't testing people with mild or no symptoms. But still, 9%!

I'm afraid it's actually 43%.

Recovered: 7,024
Deaths: 5,476

= mortality rate of 43.8%

SteM

We'll pass the 1000 confirmed case today and there are still 40,000 on the waiting list to be tested. We're only getting started here, lockdown to come and there's no way pubs will be open before July 1st imo. I take no pleasure in thinking this way but this government is pushing social/physical distancing in a big way and it would be seen as irresponsible to reopen pubs too soon.