Where did it come from, what caused it

_Brian

The majority of Americans that die from this will have died at the hands of Donald Trump through his inactions and intentional actions. For example he refused WHO test kits and waited two weeks until his son in laws company could manufacture them this making the family even more millions.

Even here at home, we know how this is spread, stoped and controlled yet we are falling short of the required actions to stop it.
Open borders, non essential shops open, NI border open, our local town has a bus running today to a pub in the north so people can celebrate paddy’s day.

Montage of Feck

one world order wrote: »

Could be man made. The truth will never be known. Bit of a coincidence it is happening in an election year when the Illuminati wanted anyone other than Trump.

Surely they would have picked better candidates if they had wanted to oust Trump?

mariaalice

Wetbench4 wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54

That is brilliant, best explanation ever nature bit us humans back.

_Brian

Montage of Feck wrote: »

They eat anything with four legs, bar the table.

Last time I was in China I was talking to a local and he put it well.

When westerners see an animal they think how cute that is, when Chinese people see the same animal they think “how will I cook that”.

He agreed he was generalising but it’s just cultural difference. In our near neighbor France they eat snails, frogs and Horse, again that’s just cultural difference.

_Brian

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Surely they would have picked better candidates if they had wanted to oust Trump?

Yes.
They wouldn’t have done something that is so traceable and does so much damage to global economies. Talk of this being intentional is foil hat stuff surely.

one world order

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Surely they would have picked better candidates if they had wanted to oust Trump?

Don't think any candidate would beat him giving his competitive nature.

mariaalice

_Brian wrote: »

Last time I was in China I was talking to a local and he put it well.

When westerners see an animal they think how cute that is, when Chinese people see the same animal they think “how will I cook that”.

He agreed he was generalising but it’s just cultural difference. In our near neighbor France they eat snails, frogs and Horse, again that’s just cultural difference.

Did you watch the video about wild animal farming as a business?

_Brian

mariaalice wrote: »

Did you watch the video about wild animal farming as a business?

I did.

mariaalice

I eat meat but try to limit it and I buy free-range chicken I would like to buy outdoor reared pork but its harder to get in Ireland, in general cattle and sheep, are very humanly and well reared in Ireland I have my suspicion about factory farming of pigs and chickens being humane even in Ireland.

I would not judge the Chinese for eating animals for meat we do it and China had a famine in the 1970s that is in living memory for a lot of people, however, farming of wild animals to the extent they do in China is totally wrong.

kitkatman

instead of the third rate stuff the irish media is feeding us, take a look at the youtube clip from the australian current affairs program sixty minutes and it will tell you everything about the origin of the virus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7nZ4mw4mXw

a second documentary by a german company gives a real insight to life in beijing today(from a french journalist who has lived there for 20 years).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K3fy5eKeuM


both reports are proper old style reportage and an eye opener.

archer22

_Brian wrote: »

An example here is how TB is spread between badgers, wild deer and cattle. Sharing drinking troughs in fields seems to be close enough to transfer it.

Now imagine stacking crates of cattle under deer and badgers with wast dripping down, imagine how much easier the spread is.

Talk of making China “pay” is juvenile at best.

The west have a high dependence on China same as they have on the west. We need to work with the to put an end to this but don’t think you’ll bully them into doing anything. They have a stronger mentality and deeper pockets than the west and we would cave long before them.

Whereas the reality in Ireland is the opposite...you have the Cattle 'stacked' on top of the Badgers and Deer (given their obvious size difference) with waste dripping down.
Which tells you which way the problem flow is going.

And if "sharing drinking troughs in fields" have anything to do with it....then why has no effort ever been made to place the drinking troughs higher up or even to design them with a curved side ridge to prevent Badgers accessing them...Badgers are heavy set animals and are not agile so it should not be difficult to stop them accessing a water container.

The reason of course is because the Badger/TB thing is a scam and they know its a scam, but Badgers are useful patsies to keep the TB testing and Badger trapping gravy train going.
The only times I have ever seen Bovine TB outbreaks in this area it coincided with somebody buying in Cattle.
Badgers my hole :rolleyes:

CrankyHaus

_Brian wrote: »

Last time I was in China I was talking to a local and he put it well.

When westerners see an animal they think how cute that is, when Chinese people see the same animal they think “how will I cook that”.

He agreed he was generalising but it’s just cultural difference. In our near neighbor France they eat snails, frogs and Horse, again that’s just cultural difference.

A friend who was over with his Chinese fiance made a similar observation to me about how every animal seems to be eaten in the most gratuitously cruel way. They had Scorpions in a meat market: the live scorpions were skewered and while squirming on the skewer were cooked alive over a flame and then served to them.

_Brian

CrankyHaus wrote: »

A friend who was over with his Chinese fiance made a similar observation to me about how every animal seems to be eaten in the most gratuitously cruel way. They had Scorpions in a meat market: the live scorpions were skewered and while squirming on the skewer were cooked alive over a flame and then served to them.

Indeed.
But we shouldn’t be blinkered because it’s a different culture.

Look how lobsters are cooked, muscles.

The intention isn’t cruelty, it’s just how it’s done, and likely has always been done.

I know some people in our group were shocked to see a chicken being dispatched street side because we ordered a chicken dish, but that’s just how it’s kept fresh and all chicken has to be killed before being eaten, we’ve just become accustomed to being separated from it, a first world luxury I suppose.

We rear a few pigs for the table, bring them to slaughter myself, the livers are available before I leave the yard, still warm.

_Brian

archer22 wrote: »

Whereas the reality in Ireland is the opposite...you have the Cattle 'stacked' on top of the Badgers and Deer (given their obvious size difference) with waste dripping down.
Which tells you which way the problem flow is going.

And if "sharing drinking troughs in fields" have anything to do with it....then why has no effort ever been made to place the drinking troughs higher up or even to design them with a curved side ridge to prevent Badgers accessing them...Badgers are heavy set animals and are not agile so it should not be difficult to stop them accessing a water container.

The reason of course is because the Badger/TB thing is a scam and they know its a scam, but Badgers are useful patsies to keep the TB testing and Badger trapping gravy train going.
The only times I have ever seen Bovine TB outbreaks in this area it coincided with somebody buying in Cattle.
Badgers my hole :rolleyes:

I’m no scientist and I’ve not tested any theories regarding Tb transmissions in either directions. We have badgers on the farm all my life and have only had one outbreak of TB. We didn’t cull badgers nor get them trapped to test them. I’d expect the transmission is both ways but proof is key. As ever we must be directed by Dept advice. Most drinking troughs are much taller these days. We don’t use troughs at all but drinking access to a stream, which of course is allowed.

ifElseThen

Good article here about how these scenarios will become more common due to human encroachment on the natural habitats of various animals.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/mar/18/tip-of-the-iceberg-is-our-destruction-of-nature-responsible-for-covid-19-aoe

Wet market in Lagos

https://youtu.be/_VHXoMSnJq4?t=35

mariaalice

_Brian wrote: »

Indeed.
But we shouldn’t be blinkered because it’s a different culture.

Look how lobsters are cooked, muscles.

The intention isn’t cruelty, it’s just how it’s done, and likely has always been done.

I know some people in our group were shocked to see a chicken being dispatched street side because we ordered a chicken dish, but that’s just how it’s kept fresh and all chicken has to be killed before being eaten, we’ve just become accustomed to being separated from it, a first world luxury I suppose.

We rear a few pigs for the table, bring them to slaughter myself, the livers are available before I leave the yard, still warm.

A Caribbean woman wa s telling me how when her mother came to visit she was a bit suspicious that the chicken in the supermarkets was not fresh as she was used to buying a live chicken and having it killed and plucked in front of her.

These things are cultural however that does not take from the fact that the farming of wild animals in the way the Chinese do it is wrong.

Muahahaha

Is there a danger the virus could enter the food chain here by farm animals getting infected by humans and then going for slaughter? Have heard a few dogs have died of the virus so seems possible that livestock can get infected too.

sonofenoch

Scientists narrowed it down to a bat and something called a Pangolin (nobody knew what this was before now everyone does).......a cross contamination of both probably, what a lovely cocktail...............what's for tea ma

DeVore

Its a zoonotic virus which means it jumped from animals to man. Possibly via several species of animal.

It appears to have come from bats or at least originating from bats and possible via another mammal (pangolin?)

Its a variation on a well known family of viruses named CoronoVirus because of the distinctive shape of the virus's "shell". They cause a number of illnesses.

The reason its more common now is that
1. These animals do not normally live with each other.

2. Now that we cram them together the virus can jump easier.

3. The virus can mutate in a new type of host when it jumps.

4. There are just more of them and more of us on the planet now. Therefore more viruses, more chances to mutate, more chances to jump between host.

Alun

mariaalice wrote: »

A Caribbean woman wa s telling me how when her mother came to visit she was a bit suspicious that the chicken in the supermarkets was not fresh as she was used to buying a live chicken and having it killed and plucked in front of her.

As mentioned already, it's more to do with the unsanitary conditions the chicken or other animal is kept in, in close contact with other animals and their faeces, and the same conditions they're slaughtered and prepared in rather than just the idea of buying a live chicken and having it dispatched on the spot. If all that could be done in clean and sanitary conditions it wouldn't be an issue.

miezekatze

Muahahaha wrote: »

Is there a danger the virus could enter the food chain here by farm animals getting infected by humans and then going for slaughter? Have heard a few dogs have died of the virus so seems possible that livestock can get infected too.

The dogs didn't die of it, the virus was merely detected on them (which I guess isn't surprising if the owner was sick) but didn't have any symptoms.

JP Liz V1

China's Batman, he turned bad

darjeeling

Xzavier Scarce Tribune wrote: »

Forgot the namecheck the other 3rd superpower, for which this won't really do much damage. But very unlikely, and they've already blamed Engerland (as usual/default).

Was there not a L4 lab near the wetmarket? That had to dispose of many dozens of (post-use) bats. There is always the possibility someone low down, porter or binman that wanted to earn a few coin by flogging them to the wetmarket around the corner.
Also one of the critters could have bitten someone's finger when moving cages, even leather gloves would get peirced by the fangs.

There are of course much, much darker and more extensive CT's than any of the above, in relation to this. But best to toe the line, and blame the bat crazy bat soup drinkers.

There's the Wuhan Inst. of Virology, which does work on bat coronaviruses and has been publishing papers on the results for over a decade, so it could look more than coincidental that a new zoonotic coronavirus should happen to appear in the same city, but looking more closely it's hard to see a connection.

When the new disease was recognised and the genome sequenced, the WIV lab ran a check for matches against a whole lot of partial viral genome sequences they got in 2013 from swab samples sourced from across China. They then found the closest match and went back to the freezer and sequenced the whole genome, which is the horseshoe bat coronavirus genome from SW China that's 96% identical (link).

The lab mostly works with swab samples collected in the field, not with actual bats, or with viruses cultured from those samples. As far as we know the work they do on live viruses is on well-defined strains that they've published, which are cultured in cell lines. This new coronavirus strain isn't one of those, so it doesn't look like a lab escape where a virologist got infected and walked it out of the building, as happened with SARS twice in Beijing in 2004.

Dick phelan

This has nothing to do with poverty. The people who actually eat these wild animals are far wealthier then most of us, the average Chinese person doesn't buy this crap, It's rich arseholes who buy it as some kind of status symbol. On social media over here there was tons of videos floating around of dopes taking video's eating the bat soup, It's done to show "look at me I can afford to buy this rare endangered animal".

Another factor is that sadly they still believe in so much bull**** ancient Chinese medicine, crap like Rhino horns are good for fertility, practically torturing bears for their bile for some other nonsense medicine. The wet markets and China trading in endangered and wild animals needs to stop but it won't because the industry for it is massive and the Chinese government cares more about economics then it does about the health of the people or the wider world.

Dick phelan

You see the same crap with shark fin soup, Most sharks species are endangered now because rich Chinese assholes had to have some fancy fcuking soup to show off, They may have developed economically but sadly attitudes towards animals and general social attitudes are still very backward among most of the older generation. They spit on the fcuking street that should tell you all you need to know about attitudes to hygiene among sections of the population.

Blueshoe

Laboratory in Wuhan. Part owned by Soros

expectationlost

mariaalice wrote: »

But why does the virus not emerge from eating farmed animals for example?

People have been eating wild animals for centuries without any apparent harm so why has it emerged as a public health issue now?


Why why why why I am being the annoying 6-year-old:pac:

have they really being eating bats, there not much to them, hence presented as soup



From a bat, to a pig, to you — not likely
By Wendy Orent
Sep. 25, 2011
12 AM https://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-xpm-2011-sep-25-la-oe-orent-contagion-disease-20110925-story.html about the film contagion says it wouldn't happen as quickly

The more I read/hear about these wet markets, the more they stand out to me as a practice which has to be extinguished in the aftermath of this pandemic. I see people post that China should be sanctioned or worse, but the most powerful western nation owes China a trillion plus, not to mention EU-China trade relations and dependence, so good luck with any kind of War on China. More realistically, pressure needs to grow on China to address these wet markets.

The people who avail of wet markets, it's not like they are saying "Fúck it, I think I'll choose the Shat-On Pangolin today rather than the farmed Fillet Mignon or Free Range Chicken." These people are eating such bizarrities out of necessity primarily. However, they have been doing it for so long through so many generations now, at this point it is also ingrained in their culture. You could solve poverty and modernise farming and agriculture in these regions, but you will still get a citizen professing their right to eat a bat.

I've been listening to some of Sam Harris' podcasts during this pandemic, and I like them for cutting through much of the bullshít that is around and for being non-sensationalist. Even at that, Sam and his guest last night were talking about these wet markets and comparing them to bioterrorism and how they must be clamped down on and addressed as such.

Already there have been mass outbreaks, death and societal upheaval traced to these wet markets from previous outbreaks. They should have been addressed by now. I get that they exist because of a complex mix of social and cultural reasons and that I'm saying this from a position of relative comfort in the West, but when they have the ability to bring the world to a standstill and create so much havoc, something has to be done.

They are the perfect environment for inadvertently creating all kinds of fúcked up primordial soup, far worse than COVID-19. As bad as this is, it could be so much worse in terms of the physical effects and/or mortality rate when it comes to deadly new viruses and strains which can spring in wet markets.

sonofenoch

Wet markets are run by criminal gangs mostly.......it's a bit like saying this heroin business has to stop

Mysteriouschic

Bill Gates predicted this a few years ago.
very interesting.
Now hes stepped down from Microsoft
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51883377

I've read it's came from a bat which the virus jumped to pangolin .