Remember the drowned boy, Alan Kurdi?

Eric Cartman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Who are these groups and individuals who specifically want to import vast quantities of people and why do they want to do so? The rush from helping someone flee a warzone is going to dissipate pretty damn quick when they're still there in a month needing food, shelter and other provisions.

Academics who have been taught and regurgitated white guilt and diversity as positive altruistic atributes , moderate to far left political groups desiring the import of new state dependent voters to vote for more state intervention in providing for people, labour unions looking for more members, businesses with an interest in low paid workers and supressing wage increases, islamic groups interested in growing their religion to garner more state aid and charity status, states themselves given false information by NGo’s and charities championing migrants as a solution to flattening the population curve and solving pensions crisis.

There is a hell of a lot of parties with false or misrepresented vested interests in importing migrants.

ancapailldorcha

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Academics who have been taught and regurgitated white guilt and diversity as positive altruistic atributes , moderate to far left political groups desiring the import of new state dependent voters to vote for more state intervention in providing for people, labour unions looking for more members, businesses with an interest in low paid workers and supressing wage increases, islamic groups interested in growing their religion to garner more state aid and charity status, states themselves given false information by NGo’s and charities championing migrants as a solution to flattening the population curve and solving pensions crisis.

There is a hell of a lot of parties with false or misrepresented vested interests in importing migrants.

I think that the whole white guilt thing has been vastly overplayed. There does seem to be a strand of left-wing thought more concerned with feelings than pragmatism so I'll take your point there.

Labour unions? Unless there's a shortage of workers for public sector positions then this seems unlikely. Refugees sitting around not being able to work are unlikely to be able to afford the union dues. The low pay thing doesn't really make sense with the minimum wage and countries like Hungary which famously refused refugees aren't exactly wage utopias.

Islamic groups? Probably but they can't have much, if any influence.

The pensions and population issues need solving through some means or another. Germany is due a serious contraction. The migrants might help in the short term but they age so it isn't a long term strategy.

Keyzer

Not to be a dick, but his name was Aylan.

Eric Cartman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think that the whole white guilt thing has been vastly overplayed. There does seem to be a strand of left-wing thought more concerned with feelings than pragmatism so I'll take your point there.

Labour unions? Unless there's a shortage of workers for public sector positions then this seems unlikely. Refugees sitting around not being able to work are unlikely to be able to afford the union dues. The low pay thing doesn't really make sense with the minimum wage and countries like Hungary which famously refused refugees aren't exactly wage utopias.

Islamic groups? Probably but they can't have much, if any influence.

The pensions and population issues need solving through some means or another. Germany is due a serious contraction. The migrants might help in the short term but they age so it isn't a long term strategy.

82% of people in Sweden are in labour unions, in Ireland it over represents in the. public sector , as it does in Germany but its more a future plan than a response to current conditions.

Yet again, islamic groups have little influence , but if you have a country where 10% of people are muslim instead of <1% suddenly the prime minister meeting with the imam isn't such a big ask, especially in an election year.

I agree on the pensions that its a short term solution, Merkel and others are thinking inside their own legacies and not long term, it'll solve it till they're in a box in the ground which is enough for them.

ancapailldorcha

Eric Cartman wrote: »

82% of people in Sweden are in labour unions, in Ireland it over represents in the. public sector , as it does in Germany but its more a future plan than a response to current conditions.

Yet again, islamic groups have little influence , but if you have a country where 10% of people are muslim instead of <1% suddenly the prime minister meeting with the imam isn't such a big ask, especially in an election year.

I agree on the pensions that its a short term solution, Merkel and others are thinking inside their own legacies and not long term, it'll solve it till they're in a box in the ground which is enough for them.

I take your point about coverage. I live in the UK where it is significantly less. My scepticism still stands. What do a load of people who won't be working for whatever reson benefit unions?

About 5% of the UK is Muslim. They haven't managed to translate this into either more refugees or much political power.

RandomName2

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

So she just saw a photo and unilaterally allowed a million people in? Seems unlikely to me.

Seems unlike? What bit? Presumably not the unilateral bit or the million people bit, because I'm sure you're up to speed with world events that happened almost half a decade ago.

We won't ever know exactly what went on in Merkel's head that prompted her to make that fateful decision.

The Independent makes no bones about it

Chancellor Angela Merkel in Germany led the world in compassion by allowing perhaps a million to settle there.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/alan-kurdi-s-death-did-change-the-world-if-only-for-an-all-too-brief-time-a7220561.html

On the other hand Der Spiegel is a little more ambiguous

Others believe it was an emotional decision, and that Merkel, normally such a composed politician, was moved by images like that of a truck found on the autobahn in Austria on August 27, filled with 71 dead refugees or, three days later, the photo of Alan, a three-year-old boy who died en route and whose body washed up on the beach at Bodrum, Turkey.

The government official has another explanation: Yes, Merkel did react emotionally, but not in the face of suffering. After all, she had adamantly stood by her position when confronted by Reem, the little refugee girl in Rostock. No, he says, Heidenau made all the difference, the moment when Merkel was confronted by hate.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-look-back-at-the-refugee-crisis-one-year-later-a-1107986.html

Either way it was clearly an emotional decision. This is evident perhaps because it was a stupid decision.

People used the Syrian Civil War to make excuses for all forms of migration. The migrant route into Italy was for a long while conflated with the Syrian Civil War, despite having absolutely nothing to do with it. You'll still find NGOs sending ships to facilitate people smuggling today in the Mediterranean. If they are cynical enough they might cite that particular photograph as reason for their 'mission'.

A lot of left-leaning people are in favor of migration into Europe. Quite a few people of a liberal disposition say that there should be no borders at all. Their responsive is mainly emotive, in a self-serving fashion. They want to feel good about themselves, and clinging to a photograph like this is great grist to a moralistic mill. Will they care about their governments' funding of rebel groups in Syria that caused the war there to drag on for five years? Unlikely. That would require a modicum of rationality. Will they ask for increased overseas aid to Lebanon and Jordan to aid their hosting of almost 2 million refugees between them? No, they'll ask for less restrictions on migrant boats, despite the obvious correlation between these crossings, and drownings.

Eric Cartman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I take your point about coverage. I live in the UK where it is significantly less. My scepticism still stands. What do a load of people who won't be working for whatever reson benefit unions?

About 5% of the UK is Muslim. They haven't managed to translate this into either more refugees or much political power.

4 out of 44 mayors in the UK are muslim, Muslim Mp’s are being elected and many more are rising in party ranks, the muslim voting block in the UK is becoming a demographic worth caring about and will be the equivalent of appeasing jewish votes in the US within another few election cycles.

ancapailldorcha

Eric Cartman wrote: »

4 out of 44 mayors in the UK are muslim, Muslim Mp’s are being elected and many more are rising in party ranks, the muslim voting block in the UK is becoming a demographic worth caring about and will be the equivalent of appeasing jewish votes in the US within another few election cycles.

Fair enough. This is turning into a general immigration debate so I'm going to leave it there. I do take your point here though FWIW.

biko

Keyzer wrote: »

Not to be a dick, but his name was Aylan.

Yeah but wiki use Alan so that's what I went with

Alan Kurdi (born as Aylan Shenu), initially reported as Aylan Kurdi, was a three-year-old Syrian boy of Kurdish ethnic background whose image made global headlines after he drowned on 2 September 2015 in the Mediterranean Sea.

Wibbs

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Who are these groups and individuals who specifically want to import vast quantities of people and why do they want to do so?

Germany's demographic is ageing and the need more young workers, better again if they're cheap. They went a similar route before with importing a ton of Turkish workers(who they treated like second class citizens).

Keyzer wrote: »

Not to be a dick, but his name was Aylan.

To be fair K at least he had his name in the title. When this was kicking off and there was much beating of breasts and gnashing of teeth, with thoughts and prayers on social media remarkably few knew his name when prompted. A few months later bugger all did without having to google it.

Feisar

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I forgot how brutal that picture was

Christ it's after hitting me like a shot in the liver.

Birneybau

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Here he is advocating riots:

https://twitter.com/MonarchyUK/status/1177549862348480512?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1177549862348480512&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boards.ie%2Fvbulletin%2Fshowthread.php%3Fp%3D111361238

How anyone takes information from this contrary tw@t, I've no idea.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterKGeoghegan/status/1241131354936553473

Tell me how

Brendan O'Neil showing once again today just how much he should be listened to in social commentary.

Absolute cretin.

Mr. teddywinkles

RandomName2 wrote: »

Seems unlike? What bit? Presumably not the unilateral bit or the million people bit, because I'm sure you're up to speed with world events that happened almost half a decade ago.

We won't ever know exactly what went on in Merkel's head that prompted her to make that fateful decision.

The Independent makes no bones about it


https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/alan-kurdi-s-death-did-change-the-world-if-only-for-an-all-too-brief-time-a7220561.html

On the other hand Der Spiegel is a little more ambiguous


https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/a-look-back-at-the-refugee-crisis-one-year-later-a-1107986.html

Either way it was clearly an emotional decision. This is evident perhaps because it was a stupid decision.

People used the Syrian Civil War to make excuses for all forms of migration. The migrant route into Italy was for a long while conflated with the Syrian Civil War, despite having absolutely nothing to do with it. You'll still find NGOs sending ships to facilitate people smuggling today in the Mediterranean. If they are cynical enough they might cite that particular photograph as reason for their 'mission'.

A lot of left-leaning people are in favor of migration into Europe. Quite a few people of a liberal disposition say that there should be no borders at all. Their responsive is mainly emotive, in a self-serving fashion. They want to feel good about themselves, and clinging to a photograph like this is great grist to a moralistic mill. Will they care about their governments' funding of rebel groups in Syria that caused the war there to drag on for five years? Unlikely. That would require a modicum of rationality. Will they ask for increased overseas aid to Lebanon and Jordan to aid their hosting of almost 2 million refugees between them? No, they'll ask for less restrictions on migrant boats, despite the obvious correlation between these crossings, and drownings.

Don't know wtf one person has such powers either way without council or even parties in government for that matter

Mr. teddywinkles

Sniper69 wrote: »

Jesus. This comment is so far removed from reality. This has to be a parody of an idiot no-life basement dwelling right wing wannabe. I really hope it is, because there cannot be a person so mentally deranged with internet politics they regurgitate this on a daily basis.

Brain damage.

Good counter agreement. Crazzzy! Let's face it most media ****e is regurgitated ****e. Oh please think of everyone else but yourself and your family. As well as no matter how good and genuine your intentions are. There are definitely groups to take advantage.

Sniper69

Sniper69 wrote: »

Jesus. This comment is so far removed from reality. This has to be a parody of an idiot no-life basement dwelling right wing wannabe. I really hope it is, because there cannot be a person so mentally deranged with internet politics they regurgitate this on a daily basis.

Brain damage.

He's right that there are organisations that have vested interests in bringing in migrants. There has been extremely little planning and implementation of integration for migrants. Why? Because it keeps the majority of migrants poor within our borders, which benefits organisations who exist for the purpose of supporting migrant workers, or their rights.

emo72

I read the article in the op, but still don't understand how our why they died. Was it bad weather or were they deliberately drowned?

weldoninhio

emo72 wrote: »

I read the article in the op, but still don't understand how our why they died. Was it bad weather or were they deliberately drowned?

They were living in Turkey. Father was working as a waiter. The rent for their apartment was being paid by family in US/Canada. The father wanted his teeth done. He thought it would be free on NHS. Contacted traffickers to get them to Greece. Took his whole family with him. Boat sank on the way to Greece. Kids died. Killed by fathers vanity. NGOs lapped it up and made them the poster boys for the illegal and undocumented.

rgossip30

weldoninhio wrote: »

They were living in Turkey. Father was working as a waiter. The rent for their apartment was being paid by family in US/Canada. The father wanted his teeth done. He thought it would be free on NHS. Contacted traffickers to get them to Greece. Took his whole family with him. Boat sank on the way to Greece. Kids died. Killed by fathers vanity. NGOs lapped it up and made them the poster boys for the illegal and undocumented.

No report that he wanted to get his teeth done but seeking a better life .

weldoninhio

rgossip30 wrote: »

No report that he wanted to get his teeth done but seeking a better life .

The fathers sister in Canada did an interview with Sky News where she stated this live on TV. He thought he could get it done on the cheap in Turkey but was quoted £4k, so decided to try to get to the UK to get them done.

Eric Cartman

rgossip30 wrote: »

No report that he wanted to get his teeth done but seeking a better life .

If youre living in turkey there are legal channels to come to other countries which do not involve putting your child in a dinghy at the hands of traffickers.

I want a rolls royce, not going to drown my own child to get it.

rgossip30

weldoninhio wrote: »

The fathers sister in Canada did an interview with Sky News where she stated this live on TV. He thought he could get it done on the cheap in Turkey but was quoted £4k, so decided to try to get to the UK to get them done.

Daft , he seems to have a somewhat celebrity status and the sister must have made a lot of dosh from the book . One has to ask where are the real refugees .

DelaneyIn

Did the dad get his chompers fixed in the end?