CoVid19 Part X - 1,564 cases ROI (9 deaths) 209 in NI (7 deaths) (25 March) *Read OP*

yourdeadwright

Roger_007 wrote: »

There’s an old saying about babies and bath water. If the result of this is a wrecked economy then we will have a wrecked health service and a wrecked society as well.
I think it is vital to keep the economy going as much as possible while taking sensible precautions What’s going to happen when the tax money runs out? We have seen in the recent past what economic devastation does to a society. It’s relatively easy to shut things down, it’s not so easy to get things started again.

Personally id be happy to be know of a generation where the economy fell apart if it means we are not remember of the generation who sat by and done nothing as our parents and grand parents died alone in hospital beds,

is_that_so

techdiver wrote: »

Unfortunately, it looks like out testing strategy has essentially collapsed.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0325/1126202-those-seeking-test-must-display-two-major-symptoms/



Essentially anyone not called for a test who is waiting for one is taken off the list and has to called their GP again. So what has gone wrong with the commitment to test 4500 per day (last week it was to be 15,000)?

Most people who contract the virus have either no symptoms or mild symptoms. We are now not going to test any of that group of people.

Are they working off the assumption that the extra measures announced yesterday is enough to curb the spread alone without a community testing strategy?

I'm not trying to be overly critical here as the government have handled this well, but why was a commitment made to ramp up testing without the means to analyse the results? Due to the huge backlog of testing and the new developments today, our figures for infection cannot be trusted in any way. It is a drop in the ocean compared to the actual numbers.

A reset is a better way of describing it and a more focused test regime. They will still test 4500 a day, rising to 15000 in about 3-4 weeks but now of people they think are more likely to have it. Positives are too low in terms of actually finding cases. Flu test rates here apparently have a positive rate of 40%.

patnor1011

Quote from Dr David Zaruk, environmental-health risk analyst and professor based in Brussels. He has worked in risk management and science communications for industry, public institutions and the academe since the 1990s. He writes a blog under the name The Risk-Monger.
*************************************************************

H1N1 led to the loss of up to 575,000 lives in the first year of circulation in 2009. While there was concern (especially as the vaccine was not available until the end of the first year), there was no mass global precautionary lockdown or strangulation of economic activity (which was just recovering from the financial crisis the year before). Why is our present reaction so extreme compared to H1N1? While some would say it did not affect wealthy western countries, it did (there were 60 million cases in the US leading to over 12,000 deaths).

H1N1 was normalised. It was called a flu (swine flu) so people understood it in the context of how to manage influenza outbreaks. COVID-19 is called a virus – a coronavirus! In public perception terms, we might as well call it the “corona-plague”. There are many strains of influenza and we accept that the flu will not go away. It is part of life and, for far too many, the cause of death. At times our healthcare system is overwhelmed by flu outbreaks (as the British NHS was in the days leading up to the British election in December, 2019).

Vaccine-makers try to anticipate the strains that will dominate in any season. COVID-19 will not go away but will likely become one more strain to consider in the vaccine lottery. We need to normalise our vocabulary so the mass public precautionary panic plateaus.

caveat emptor

Fics wrote: »

If some thug coughs or spits at me and I "defend myself" am I liable for assault or do I have the right?

While you could claim self defence. The spit has already occurred and thier is no further risk. If they are running away you could technically be prosecuted.

Comes down to what you "believe" was going to happen and if it can be shown you believed that beyond reasonable doubt. Self defence only works if there is a danger of something going to happen. If it has happened you should just call garda.

Jinglejangle69

techdiver wrote: »

Unfortunately, it looks like out testing strategy has essentially collapsed.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0325/1126202-those-seeking-test-must-display-two-major-symptoms/



Essentially anyone not called for a test who is waiting for one is taken off the list and has to called their GP again. So what has gone wrong with the commitment to test 4500 per day (last week it was to be 15,000)?

Most people who contract the virus have either no symptoms or mild symptoms. We are now not going to test any of that group of people.

Are they working off the assumption that the extra measures announced yesterday is enough to curb the spread alone without a community testing strategy?

I'm not trying to be overly critical here as the government have handled this well, but why was a commitment made to ramp up testing without the means to analyse the results? Due to the huge backlog of testing and the new developments today, our figures for infection cannot be trusted in any way. It is a drop in the ocean compared to the actual numbers.

No because were getting so many negative tests were wasting too much time.

Its about testing people who are really showing symptoms and get the result for them.

frillyleaf

Why does Germany have such a low death rate when they clearly have a lot or cases?

What is Germany doing to manage this so well and is there parts of that model that we can follow ?

igCorcaigh

Roger_007 wrote: »

There’s an old saying about babies and bath water. If the result of this is a wrecked economy then we will have a wrecked health service and a wrecked society as well.
I think it is vital to keep the economy going as much as possible while taking sensible precautions What’s going to happen when the tax money runs out? We have seen in the recent past what economic devastation does to a society. It’s relatively easy to shut things down, it’s not so easy to get things started again.

It depends on the post-crisis response. There is still demand in the economy, it's just on hold. There will be massive investment when all this is over. Hopefully we might even learn to reorganise our economic system to prioritise social values.

yourdeadwright

frillyleaf wrote: »

Why does Germany have such a low death rate when they clearly have a lot or cases?

What is Germany doing to manage this so well and is there parts of that model that we can follow ?

If someone dies with the virus but also has another underlying health issues they are putting that down as cause of death ,We are doing the opposite

pjohnson

frillyleaf wrote: »

Why does Germany have such a low death rate when they clearly have a lot or cases?

What is Germany doing to manage this so well and is there parts of that model that we can follow ?

I think we are on our own re. other country models. We wanted to do Korea but failed

is_that_so

frillyleaf wrote: »

Why does Germany have such a low death rate when they clearly have a lot or cases?

What is Germany doing to manage this so well and is there parts of that model that we can follow ?

This is just one of many unknowns in all of this. According to a friend there, anecdotal evidence I know, everyone and their dog is demanding a test.

frillyleaf

frillyleaf wrote: »

Why does Germany have such a low death rate when they clearly have a lot or cases?

What is Germany doing to manage this so well and is there parts of that model that we can follow ?

Their death rate is virtually identical to ours.

El Weirdo

briany wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asM056FLmg0

I'll always thank a Young Ones video.

YFlyer

Belle E. Flops wrote: »

The teenagers taking part in the 'Corona challenge' should be shot on sight.

Carry out the Corona Counter Challenge.

Doctors room ghost

Naggdefy wrote: »

No you're not whinging:rolleyes: And you're surely not better than anyone else, you can't even write a sentence for a start. I highlighted a few efforts. If you're out of work you could do an online basic English and grammar course.

I'm making a point about redeployment, not whinging.

I’m not out of work thankfully.
In you’re previous post you called me judgemental.id suggest you look up the meaning of the word and then have a read back on your posts. many thanks and have a great day friend.

Boggles

igCorcaigh wrote: »

The virus must be very widespread in London:

"Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, has warned that more tube services in the UK capital may have to be cut because of staff sickness rates approaching 30%,"

Guardian blog

It's another think we have going for us, a negative turned to a positive.

Pathetic public transport.

yourdeadwright

pjohnson wrote: »

I think we are on our own re. other country models. We wanted to do Korea but failed

Very unfair to compare us to Korea
They had a plan in place for this since 2015 after the Sar outbreak, We had never seen anything like this so considering that we are actually doing pretty ok at the moment

is_that_so

From RTE feed. Finally they "found" some cases.

Russian President Vladimir Putin will make a televised address to the nation later today, the Kremlin said, without providing further details.

Mr Putin's address follows the sharpest daily reported rise in coronavirus cases, which now stand at 658 in Russia.

YFlyer

frillyleaf wrote: »

Why does Germany have such a low death rate when they clearly have a lot or cases?

What is Germany doing to manage this so well and is there parts of that model that we can follow ?

The ICUs curve hasn't spiked?

Tacitus Kilgore

Fics wrote: »

If some thug coughs or spits at me and I "defend myself" am I liable for assault or do I have the right?

Kick the absolute bollox out of them anyway, worry about rights and liabilities after - Emergency times call for emergency measures - just like the national strategy.

Roger_007

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Personally id be happy to be know of a generation where the economy fell apart if it means we are not remember of the generation who sat by and done nothing as our parents and grand parents died alone in hospital beds,

It’s not an either/or situation. We have to strike a balance. What are we going to do if a new strain of flu emerges next winter? Shut down the economy again? Covid-19 is not going away anytime soon, if ever. We just have to manage it like all the other health threats that exist around us all the time.

TheAsYLuMkeY

Fics wrote: »

If some thug coughs or spits at me and I "defend myself" am I liable for assault or do I have the right?

I suppose you would have to prove your actions were reasonable to defend yourself.

That being the case as we are talking about a Virus that can be transmitted via saliva, a good punch into the mouth with gloves on might be acceptable.

Donald Trump

patnor1011 wrote: »

Quote from Dr David Zaruk, environmental-health risk analyst and professor based in Brussels. He has worked in risk management and science communications for industry, public institutions and the academe since the 1990s. He writes a blog under the name The Risk-Monger.
*************************************************************

H1N1 led to the loss of up to 575,000 lives in the first year of circulation in 2009. While there was concern (especially as the vaccine was not available until the end of the first year), there was no mass global precautionary lockdown or strangulation of economic activity (which was just recovering from the financial crisis the year before). Why is our present reaction so extreme compared to H1N1? While some would say it did not affect wealthy western countries, it did (there were 60 million cases in the US leading to over 12,000 deaths).

H1N1 was normalised. It was called a flu (swine flu) so people understood it in the context of how to manage influenza outbreaks. COVID-19 is called a virus – a coronavirus! In public perception terms, we might as well call it the “corona-plague”. There are many strains of influenza and we accept that the flu will not go away. It is part of life and, for far too many, the cause of death. At times our healthcare system is overwhelmed by flu outbreaks (as the British NHS was in the days leading up to the British election in December, 2019).

Vaccine-makers try to anticipate the strains that will dominate in any season. COVID-19 will not go away but will likely become one more strain to consider in the vaccine lottery. We need to normalise our vocabulary so the mass public precautionary panic plateaus.

What are the good Dr.'s qualifications?
Online PhD perhaps?

tobefrank321

Makes sense to prioritise testing. Sounds like a few hypochondriacs were clogging up the system.

Naggdefy

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

I’m not out of work thankfully.
In you’re previous post you called me judgemental.id suggest you look up the meaning of the word and then have a read back on your posts. many thanks and have a great day friend.

Good for you! I wouldn't have been judgemental if you hadn't made an ar*e of interpreting my post about redeployment and said i was whinging, it totally escaping you that you were whinging earlier!

Anyway good luck!

Kermit.de.frog

techdiver wrote: »

Unfortunately, it looks like out testing strategy has essentially collapsed.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0325/1126202-those-seeking-test-must-display-two-major-symptoms/



Essentially anyone not called for a test who is waiting for one is taken off the list and has to called their GP again. So what has gone wrong with the commitment to test 4500 per day (last week it was to be 15,000)?

Most people who contract the virus have either no symptoms or mild symptoms. We are now not going to test any of that group of people.

Are they working off the assumption that the extra measures announced yesterday is enough to curb the spread alone without a community testing strategy?

I'm not trying to be overly critical here as the government have handled this well, but why was a commitment made to ramp up testing without the means to analyse the results? Due to the huge backlog of testing and the new developments today, our figures for infection cannot be trusted in any way. It is a drop in the ocean compared to the actual numbers.

This is about massaging numbers.

Yet the hospitals will still be overwhelmed. That can't be hidden.

We were told everyone who was referred would be tested. We have spent a fortune on testing sites around the country.

Now we are told hardly anyone is going to be tested.

Great news, we'll only have a handful of cases.

If you don't test there is no problem by default. That's the theory anyway.

citysights

Someone mentioned absurd - might be a good time to read The Plague by Albert Camus ( always said I’d read it maybe now )

is_that_so

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is about massaging numbers.

Yet the hospitals will still be overwhelmed. That can't be hidden.

We were told everyone who was referred would be tested. We have spent a fortune on testing sites around the country.

Now we are told hardly anyone is going to be tested.

Great news, we'll only have a handful of cases.

If you don't test there is no problem by default. That's the theory anyway.

Not true, just testing more specific people. Daily test levels of 4500 and rising.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is about massaging numbers.

Yet the hospitals will still be overwhelmed. That can't be hidden.

We were told everyone who was referred would be tested. We have spent a fortune on testing sites around the country.

Now we are told hardly anyone is going to be tested.

Great news, we'll only have a handful of cases.

If you don't test there is no problem by default. That's the theory anyway.

That certainly isn't the message I'm taking from this and I think it's quite disingenuous to put it this way. We are testing a lot of people, it's approaching 4000 per million which is high by international standards and it is still rising.

tobefrank321

25,000 cases in New York. The real figure is likely 10 times that.

Anyone flying here from New York should be isolated in a hotel for 2 weeks if we aren't going to ban flights.

You can't flatten the curve if you import cases from other countries.

Boggles

Renee Kind Historian wrote: »

That certainly isn't the message I'm taking from this and I think it's quite disingenuous to put it this way. We are testing a lot of people, it's approaching 4000 per million which is high by international standards and it is still rising.

Ah yeah, but we have indulged in a bit of creative accounting.

We have cleared the backlog by moving the goal posts.

It's not great TBF.

But we couldn't cope.

the.red.baron

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

I’d say they are the same clowns that bought bread during the snow just to put a picture of it on the Facebook.

I still have that bread in the freezer, whos laughing now

Widdensushi

frillyleaf wrote: »

Why does Germany have such a low death rate when they clearly have a lot or cases?

What is Germany doing to manage this so well and is there parts of that model that we can follow ?

the older people must be isolating as the age of the positive tests is young and they are obviously testing anyone who has symptoms, contact. UK deathrate is going to be high because you basically have to need hospitalization before you are tested

briany

briany wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asM056FLmg0

Everyone should watch this

It sums up this boardsie family of ours.

Achasanai

Boggles wrote: »

Ah yeah, but we have indulged in a bit of creative accounting.

How is it 'creative accounting'? The real important figure is how many we're testing per population, which I believe is relatively high (compared to other European countries) for the stage that we're currently at.

gabeeg

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is about massaging numbers.

Yet the hospitals will still be overwhelmed. That can't be hidden.

We were told everyone who was referred would be tested. We have spent a fortune on testing sites around the country.

Now we are told hardly anyone is going to be tested.

Great news, we'll only have a handful of cases.

If you don't test there is no problem by default. That's the theory anyway.

And we won't have a true picture of infection or immunity rates in the wider population, which will make emerging from lockdown more of a gamble.

the.red.baron

igCorcaigh wrote: »

The virus must be very widespread in London:

"Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, has warned that more tube services in the UK capital may have to be cut because of staff sickness rates approaching 30%,"

Guardian blog

I doubt they are all sick, just trying to avoid getting it

893bet

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This is about massaging numbers.

Yet the hospitals will still be overwhelmed. That can't be hidden.

We were told everyone who was referred would be tested. We have spent a fortune on testing sites around the country.

Now we are told hardly anyone is going to be tested.

Great news, we'll only have a handful of cases.

If you don't test there is no problem by default. That's the theory anyway.

You are not logical.

This will make the numbers appear far worse.

If we only people have multiple symptoms then the chances of them being positive are far higher.

By not clogging up the system with people who don’t need a test.

Ultimately everyone should assume they have it, with symptoms or not and maintain distances.

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

I was sick last week,had a cough,fatigue,pain in head but was sneezing alot too so clearly a cold.
I did not even think of getting a test.

Same as that. A lot of unnecessary cases blocking up the system.

frillyleaf

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If someone dies with the virus but also has another underlying health issues they are putting that down as cause of death ,We are doing the opposite

Should all countries not be recording information in the same way so it is clear and consistent?

For example, if someone with asthma passes away from being infected with Covid19 is that not the cause of death as opposed to asthma? They would have been able to live with asthma so I don’t understand why this is being classified as cause of death

I would have thought people had to report deaths related that tested positive for Covid19.

Boggles

Achasanai wrote: »

How is it 'creative accounting'? The real important figure is how many we're testing per population, which I believe is relatively high (compared to other European countries) for the stage that we're currently at.

Changing the criteria for a test when 40,000 odd people are waiting for the test thus eliminating the back log is at best creative accounting.

I find the constant positive spins on these type of failures more worrying than the doom merchants TBH.

The reality is we have failed at testing we aspired to do, we couldn't cope and we now have to move onto a different way.

We need honesty not spin from government cheer leaders.

Kermit.de.frog

Widdensushi wrote: »

the older people must be isolating as the age of the positive tests is young and they are obviously testing anyone who has symptoms, contact. UK deathrate is going to be high because you basically have to need hospitalization before you are tested

I read before that Germany would only record the death of those patients who died as a direct and exclusive result of coronavirus. No underlying illness directly contributed simultaneously.

Which on probabilities would seem a good explanation imo?

owlbethere

Roger_007 wrote: »

The more I listen to various spokespeople trying to explain what the new regime means for all of us, the more I come to the conclusion that the whole thing has not been thought through at all. We are committing economic suicide which will result in the eventual breakdown of our social fabric.
There really is no plan in place.

The other option is not to slow the spread of this virus down and allowing it to run rampant throughout society. There will be huge losses that way too. You're talking about a large amount of people being out from the work force with illness. There will be a huge strain on the health service treating people with bad doses. If there's not enough space in hospitals older people will be allowed be allowed to die at home in their beds. There's no right answer.

gabeeg

893bet wrote: »

You are not logical.

This will make the numbers appear far worse.

If we only people have multiple symptoms then the chances of them being positive are far higher.

By not clogging up the system with people who don’t need a test.

Ultimately everyone should assume they have it, with symptoms or not and maintain distances.

All the countries that are handling this well are testing widely

It's a crucial pillar of their strategy. If we're not, then we're on a far different path to the likes of South Korea, Germany, Singapore etc

Wombatman

yourdeadwright wrote: »

If someone dies with the virus but also has another underlying health issues they are putting that down as cause of death ,We are doing the opposite

I've heard this a few times. Is there any source for this?

893bet

893bet wrote: »

You are not logical.

This will make the numbers appear far worse.

If we only people have multiple symptoms then the chances of them being positive are far higher.

By not clogging up the system with people who don’t need a test.

Ultimately everyone should assume they have it, with symptoms or not and maintain distances.

Exactly. You can't win people who are negative all the time.

It's pretty straightforward. If you have any symptoms practice social distancing. This should be practiced anyway.

If you have fever and another symptom ring your doctor.

It's common sense.

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

While you could claim self defence. The spit has already occurred and thier is no further risk. If they are running away you could technically be prosecuted.

Comes down to what you "believe" was going to happen and if it can be shown you believed that beyond reasonable doubt. Self defence only works if there is a danger of something going to happen. If it has happened you should just call garda.

So I’d tell the authorities that as the c unt ran away he said he was going to do the same to the old lady a few yards up the road. I took him out in to save her.

Cody montana

Prince Charles has it!

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Roger_007 wrote: »

There’s an old saying about babies and bath water. If the result of this is a wrecked economy then we will have a wrecked health service and a wrecked society as well.
I think it is vital to keep the economy going as much as possible while taking sensible precautions What’s going to happen when the tax money runs out? We have seen in the recent past what economic devastation does to a society. It’s relatively easy to shut things down, it’s not so easy to get things started again.

We might come out of this with a slightly weaker economy, but a stronger and more united society... where people care more about each other and a bit less about what's in their bank account!

The race to the bottom, is one of the core reasons that this virus even came into existence on the first place! China being the main area of the world that has to respond to our ever increasing consumerism!

Longing

Absolutely disgraceful what's happening today. I have been showing symptoms sweating and coughing my lungs hurt so much. Told I have to reply for test. Waiting 5 days already. Had Pneumonia 12 months ago and have underlying autoimmune disorder.

Tears are running down my face as i type this. I can't believe it

frillyleaf

Renee Kind Historian wrote: »

Their death rate is virtually identical to ours.

Is it compared to our population level? That is good news if that is the case and I would be optimistic that we may have this under control if there is not a big increase. If this goes well for Ireland Leo Varadkar will go down in history for leading us through this.