Have you been tested?

BarryD2

Deleted User wrote: »

But 18k is certainly a big enough sample to get an idea of the positive vs negative %.
If it’s 94% negative, of course they’re going to want to make testing criteria more strict.

It's reminiscent of the cervical smear 'chaos' when they announced that any woman who was concerned could apply for a new free test. With all the media & political hype, there was a stampede that overwhelmed the already dysfunctional screening programme.

Same thing seems to have happened here and anyone with a bit of a cough or runny nose or a mild headache has been phoning the local GP.

They have to change the rules as the system can't cope with the advice they gave out themselves.

mugsymugsy

magic17 wrote: »

What they've done is pretty smart really. They've basically wiped the list clean. The GPs will now need to more stringently put people forward. The worst thing about this whole process is that you're relying on what people say over the phone to their GP. There's a lot of people worried out there and will exaggerate their symptoms.

Those who really need it will probably get tested far sooner than they would have. The wait times for the average person must easily have been 7-8 days at this stage. Getting rid of the 'I coughed once, I must have it' group will speed things up massively.

Also the other thing is that if people have been genuinely self isolating and symptoms have been mild then they haven't been spreading it.

By refining the testing it can mean those that really need the testing get it. Health care workers and high risk.

If people keep social distancing then the health care system might be able to manage it

STB.

magic17 wrote: »

What they've done is pretty smart really. They've basically wiped the list clean. The GPs will now need to more stringently put people forward. The worst thing about this whole process is that you're relying on what people say over the phone to their GP. There's a lot of people worried out there and will exaggerate their symptoms.

Those who really need it will probably get tested far sooner than they would have. The wait times for the average person must easily have been 7-8 days at this stage. Getting rid of the 'I coughed once, I must have it' group will speed things up massively.

No it is not. It is not the job of our public health officials to gamble. You cannot gamble with peoples lives.

You don't simply "wipe the slate clean" because you have failed to test those who have come forward with symptoms, that you yourself set.

Those people who "think" it was just a "flu" or a "cold" will go back into society and potentially spread the virus to other people who wont have mild symptoms or reactions and will end up in ICU's.

mugsymugsy wrote: »

Also the other thing is that if people have been genuinely self isolating and symptoms have been mild then they haven't been spreading it.

By refining the testing it can mean those that really need the testing get it. Health care workers and high risk.

If people keep social distancing then the health care system might be able to manage it

The other thing..... peoples families may not have been self isolating. The contagion is spread easily.

dr.kenneth noisewater

It seems more people were getting referred that needed to be and the system either cant cope or they dont have enough kits. If GP's were getting paid by referral then they were always going to refer everyone who had any symptom. Just got a call back from my GP saying I dont meet the new criteria so I can go back to normal (whatever the new normal is) as its been over 14 days since I was ill.

BarryD2

STB. wrote: »

Those people who "think" it was just a "flu" or a "cold" will go back into society and potentially spread the virus to other people who wont have mild symptoms or reactions and will end up in ICU's.

They won't if they've a brain cell in their heads and can see the problem. Anyone who has been phoning the GP should be keeping to themselves, regardless of testing or not, for the two weeks. That's called taking personal responsibility and having regard for society.

mugsymugsy

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

It seems more people were getting referred that needed to be and the system either cant cope or they dont have enough kits. If GP's were getting paid by referral then they were always going to refer everyone who had any symptom. Just got a call back from my GP saying I dont meet the new criteria so I can go back to normal as its been over 14 days since I was ill.

But thank you for self isolating and not spreading whatever bug you had.

STB.

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

It seems more people were getting referred that needed to be and the system either cant cope or they dont have enough kits. If GP's were getting paid by referral then they were always going to refer everyone who had any symptom. Just got a call back from my GP saying I dont meet the new criteria so I can go back to normal as its been over 14 days since I was ill.

Given there have been plenty of cases were the incubation period has been greater than 14 days, this is Russian Roulette.

27 days is the highest number I have seen.

Recipe for disaster and highly irresponsible. Answers are needed. Transparency is key.

BarryD2 wrote: »

They won't if they've a brain cell in their heads and can see the problem. Anyone who has been phoning the GP should be keeping to themselves, regardless of testing or not, for the two weeks. That's called taking personal responsibility and having regard for society.

Public Health responsibility of the state has failed. Now they want to ignore those responsible individuals presenting for tests. They cannot get through a 40k backlog. We are fúcked from the getgo.

Happyilylost

STB. wrote: »

No it is not. It is not the job of our public health officials to gamble. You cannot gamble with peoples lives.

You don't simply "wipe the slate clean" because you have failed to test those who have come forward with symptoms, that you yourself set.

Those people who "think" it was just a "flu" or a "cold" will go back into society and potentially spread the virus to other people who wont have mild symptoms or reactions and will end up in ICU's.



The other thing..... peoples families may not have been self isolating. The contagion is spread easily.

Clear guidelines on what people with symptoms should do. Pretty sure heading straight back into society with symptoms is not in the guidelines.

dr.kenneth noisewater

STB. wrote: »

Given there have been plenty of cases were the incubation period has been greater ta 14 days, this is russian roulette.

27 days is the highest number I have seen.

Recipe for disaster and highly irresponsible. Answers are needed. Transparency is key.

Well I'll still maintain social distancing and avoid all contact possible but I'm glad to be able to head for a walk/run/cycle now

STB.

Happyilylost wrote: »

Clear guidelines on what people with symptoms should do. Pretty sure heading straight back into society with symptoms is not in the guidelines.

Yes. You are meant to be tested, especially since the virus shows no symptoms in some cases.

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Well I'll still maintain social distancing and avoid all contact possible but I'm glad to be able to head for a walk/run/cycle now

Lets hope that everyone else is as responsible. Are you happy that the state has abdicated those public health responsibilities to you because they hadn't the wherewithal to test ? I'm not. You must also have an understanding employer. Many wont.

The 40k number didnt appear overnight. It has accumulated since the 13th March. Where they hoping it would just go away ?

paw patrol

STB. wrote: »

Dont compare us to South Korea. They tested from day one. They did 20,000 tests a day. They ended up testing half a million. In addition to testing they fully contained the virus, through testing everyone coming and going through the airport. They also continually monitored those infected using phone technology.

Our testing regime HAS failed. We have testing centres sitting idle. An apparent lack of kits ? And a testing labs not ready to quantify those tests ? WHY ?

Testing and isolation is the key, per WHO.

half a million out of 50million is the same as 45000 irish people

hse seems to be on their way to achieving that.. SK is weeks ahead of us due to the fact the infection landed there a lot sooner

I'm as concerned as the next guy - ive family member waiting on tests and other family members in danger cos they are high risk here living with those waiting on tests

But lets be truthful and realistic here.

EDit

Happyilylost wrote: »

Maybe the issue is the HSE weren't expecting to be testing as many who DIDN'T need to be tested. 94% negative. That figure needs to sit in everyone's head.

The issue is that that means ~6% are positive. If we extrapolate that to the 40,000 people waiting on tests, that is 2400 people with C-19. Obviously, if everyone is self-isolating as they should then it, in some ways, doesn’t matter that we are not counting those 2400 people, but it does make a mockery of the daily numbers if so many infections are hidden

calfmuscle

Fann Linn wrote: »

But it is important also for the partners and families of the person who is supposed to be tested.
My wife displayed all the symptoms initially, deemed suitable for the test and put on the list over two weeks ago. Now she's progressively got worse, although now she doesn't display all of the initial symptoms.
She was also admitted into hospital and discharged with antibiotics, steroids, inhalers etc.
In all that time she never got tested, and also in all of that time I continued to work. I'm actually in work now.
I don't know if my wife has Covid 19 or pneumonia, she's booked in for a test today, hopefully in 5/6 days time the result will be negative, but if it is positive what have I been spreading for the last 2 weeks?
By the way, I'm feeling grand atm.

There are clear guidelines that state if you have been in contact with a suspected case you should isolate.

Why are you not isolating yourself?

This is the unfortunate problem with ppl obsessing about testing. If you have symptoms or are around people with symptoms you have to isolate!!

EDit

Bigboldworld wrote: »

Are they not ruling out a lot of people who will actually have coronavirus because they are saying you must have a fever? I’ve read a number of posts from people who tested positive without having a fever however on the other hand i read a report from a chinese hospital that almost 99% that presented had a fever?! Very confusing

I believe the 99% with fever statistic is related to hospitalised patients. This is clearly a mechanism to move away from identifying all infected to identifying those most likely to end up in hospital or ICU. This is what most other countries are doing.

STB.

paw patrol wrote: »

half a million out of 50million is the same as 45000 irish people

hse seems to be on their way to achieving that.. SK is weeks ahead of us due to the fact the infection landed there a lot sooner
But lets be truthful and realistic here.

The half a million tested wasn't random.

It was people presenting with symptoms, just like here. Their timing and ability to test 20k per day from the getgo, in addition to other measures wrapped this up fairly quickly and prevented further contagion. This is not what we are doing.

I've hogged this enough.

EDit wrote: »

I believe the 99% with fever statistic is related to hospitalised patients. This is clearly a mechanism to move away from identifying all infected to identifying those most likely to end up in hospital or ICU. This is what most other countries are doing.

That is not what other countries are doing. They are following WHO guidelines. TEST TEST TEST. Isolate. Contain. Rinse and repeat. Its the only way to control it so your health system doesn't become overwhelmed. You cannot fight what you cannot see. It requires ID'ing those affected.

sydthebeat

I know this thread is moving fast, but I just want to bump the below to see if anyone knows the answer please :

sydthebeat wrote: »

Probably been answered already, but does the test tell you if you've already had it, but don't have it at the time of testing??

STB.

STB. wrote: »

No you most certainly do not.

I am sure you can make local practical arrangements that your HR/Manager can agree to, for everyone's benefit. Your government employer has responsibility for the overall health of their employees under the Health & Safety Act 2005.

This is a total mess that has accumulated since the 13th. The moving of goalposts is going to result in situations like yours and far far worse, where people just go back to work without being responsible.

Journalists need to be all over this because its a recipe for disaster.

Dont worry I am not going back to work yet but I am very confused!

But believe it or not I work in a non essential Government department and they are not closing, just making people work on opposite shifts (splitting teams into 2 and working opposite hours) . We still share bathrooms, equipment, desks, plastic pouches, in and out of numerous doors.
I am under pressure to get back to work and I am getting daily texts about rosters!!
This is a Government department and yet it seems to be in direct conflict with Department of Health guidelines (i.e. non essential work).

Also there needs to be CLEAR guidelines NOW about what people who have symptoms are to do. I am on a waitlist for test for a week but do not have a fever. Suddenly HSE says you need to have a fever. Claire Byrne didnt yet she now has Covid!

CIARAN_BOYLE

EDit wrote: »

The issue is that that means ~6% are positive. If we extrapolate that to the 40,000 people waiting on tests, that is 2400 people with C-19. Obviously, if everyone is self-isolating as they should then it, in some ways, doesn’t matter that we are not counting those 2400 people, but it does make a mockery of the daily numbers if so many infections are hidden

Let's say they've run their numbers on the symptoms reports and decided that by modelling that they have two pools of people.

10,000 of whom 20% are likely to be positive and 30,000 of whom 1.3% are likely to be positive.

By removing the 30,000 from the pool waiting for tests they can process the 10,000 much easier and quicker.

Fann Linn

calfmuscle wrote: »

There are clear guidelines that state if you have been in contact with a suspected case you should isolate.

Why are you not isolating yourself?

This is the unfortunate problem with ppl obsessing about testing. If you have symptoms or are around people with symptoms you have to isolate!!

Because when I said it to my boss I was told, 'we'll get back to you on that. Still waiting. Despite them knowing my wife has been on a list for over two weeks.

CIARAN_BOYLE

sydthebeat wrote: »

I know this thread is moving fast, but I just want to bump the below to see if anyone knows the answer please :

I don't believe the current one does.

There's another test in use elsewhere that tests blood for antibodies that does that but I don't think the swab test does.

EDit

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I don't believe the current one does.

There's another test in use elsewhere that tests blood for antibodies that does that but I don't think the swab test does.

Correct, the current test tests for the presence of virus. If you have cleared it from your system (or reduced it sufficiently) you will test negative

sydthebeat

Or working backwards from Leo's 15,000 cases, let's assume by end April...

At a 94% negative rate that means we would need to do 375,000 tests in 35 days.... Or over 10,000 tests PER DAY.

No system can cope with that demand

STB.

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Let's say they've run their numbers on the symptoms reports and decided that by modelling that they have two pools of people.

10,000 of whom 20% are likely to be positive and 30,000 of whom 1.3% are likely to be positive.

By removing the 30,000 from the pool waiting for tests they can process the 10,000 much easier and quicker.

You cannot change the rules, because the game no longer suits.

You cannnot model anything. This virus is random or is in clusters.

They ****ed up. Even if 10% of those put forward by GP's are potentially negative, the other 90% have been left to themselves. I would be surprised if GP's were putting people up willy nilly for testing.

It didnt happen overnight. This has been known about since the 13th and someone has been watching the numbers increase steadily, whilst sitting on their hands.

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

I have had a scratchy sore throat for about a week nothing too bad.
But in the last few days I get a bit of pain when breathing in really deeply, especially at night.
Think it might be time to call the doc I think

So I have gotten worse last day or so.
Pain everytime I breathe in, aches and pains over my whole top half.
Waiting on call back from doctor today.
Just a tad worried, but I am fairly young in 30s but had pneumonia when I was 18/19.
My husband works in social care and is self isolating. Hopefully won't be too long for test.
health care workers are supposed to be tested as a priority?

CIARAN_BOYLE

STB. wrote: »

You cannot change the rules, because the game no longer suits.

You cannnot model anything. This virus is random or is in clusters.

They ****ed up. Even if 10% of those put forward by GP's are potentially negative, the other 90% have been left to themselves. I would be surprised if GP's were putting people up willy nilly for testing.

It didnt happen overnight. This has been known about since the 13th and someone has been watching the numbers increase steadily, whilst sitting on their hands.

They have to change the rules. As you said the game doesn't suit the rules.

They have done a massive job to ramp up testing and lab capacity. They are hitting walls and have too many people to test.

Judging by old standards (ie flu or any other infectious disease) GPs are putting people for testing willy nilly. If someone says they have shortage of breath no gp is listening to their lungs (for obvious reasons) to judge it themselves.

When a test is done for the flu test its 40% positive. What's the criteria for a flu test? I don't know. I think so far we ve done more coronavirus tests than we would in an average year for the flu. Our health service has done a great job in increasing capacity.

It's not enough to meet the demand under the old criteria so they had to change the criteria.

You have the test the people most likely to have the condition in my opinion.

I'll agree that they ****ed up. I doubt we will agree on how they ****ed up though. I do think they should have acted earlier to restrict the least likely to be infected from joining the que for a test and not let the testing que get out of hand in the way it did.

STB.

sydthebeat wrote: »

I know this thread is moving fast, but I just want to bump the below to see if anyone knows the answer please :

sydthebeat wrote: »

Probably been answered already, but does the test tell you if you've already had it, but don't have it at the time of testing??

No. The test cannot tell you whether you had it previously. Only a serology test could do that. They are carrying out diagnostic tests, not serology tests.

Recent testing of random people in Iceland has uncovered 40 mutations of the virus (yes 40!). As each of those has a specific genetic sequence, they could tell were the virus came from, from an international dataset. In some cases they discovered among those volunteers, that 6 or 7 of them contracted their mutation from a football game in England. In another case the person had 2 different mutations of the virus, without symptoms.

Runaways

Just to quickly ad South Korea isn’t a comparable example for any country.

They have ample supplies and gear and equipment and know how given they have North Korea right next door. They’re ready and always train for a chemical or biological attack.

So to say SK is testing tens of thousands a day and comparing us or any country to them is a bit ridiculous.

retro:electro

I rang my GP there (i was referred earlier in the week, haven’t been given a test date yet) and according to him the new criteria starts today and anyone who has been referred should still get a call but he couldn’t be certain on that either. He said once the referral is sent it’s out of their hands and they can’t re-refer patients by adding in a symptom. So, all in all he didn’t really seem to know if I would get a call or not. I got a big spiel about self isolating and to call them if I felt worse.

STB.

Runaways wrote: »

Just to quickly ad South Korea isn’t a comparable example for any country.

They have ample supplies and gear and equipment and know how given they have North Korea right next door. They’re ready and always train for a chemical or biological attack.

So to say SK is testing tens of thousands a day and comparing us or any country to them is a bit ridiculous.

And that would be fine if the Taoiseach didn't claim to be following the South Korea model. We are doing nothing of the sort.



This is what South Korea did as explained in 6 minutes by their Foreign Minister.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IQkhaBifGQ

mugsymugsy

Having 94% of tests negative is not good use of resources.

As they are doing priority for health care workers and at risk people.

Continue with social distancing or self isolation if you have symptoms mild or severe.

What's the point in Karen who has a sore throat having a test when all she needs to do is self isolate. If she self isolates then great. Get Siobhan or Michael the nurse tested and see if they can get back to work. Get people in nursing homes tested etc

The mixed messaging and confusion is far from ideal from the government.