Workplaces and employer attitudes Megathread

biko

The company is only responsible for its employees.

endacl

Are the contractors working through an agency. If so, and I was in charge, I wouldn’t be inclined to pay the agency a huge cut of the bonus to pass on to the contractors. I’d have a think about some other way of rewarding them that wouldn’t include the agency.

Their hands may be tied by the relationship with the agency supplying the contractors.

farty90210

It's just that it's seen as a pandemic bonus.

Nobody care's about their healthcare, shares, Christmas bonuses etc.

It's drawn a line in the sand between the permanent and external.

I'll be making sure I'm not helping any permanent staff like I was before. What's the point?

peasant

farty90210 wrote: »

I always wondered though and I never fully understood the difference:

Why do pharma companies use recruitment agencies?

One of the reasons is accounting/ shareholder value.

A large factor in valuing a company is the productivity (profit) per employee.
In that context agency workers aren't employees but associated costs...makes the figures look that much better.

Plus the agency workers are easier to hire and fire, move around, cut hours, etc ...

_Kaiser_

farty90210 wrote: »

It's just that it's seen as a pandemic bonus.

Nobody care's about their healthcare, shares, Christmas bonuses etc.

It's drawn a line in the sand between the permanent and external.

I'll be making sure I'm not helping any permanent staff like I was before. What's the point?

You really don't get this. You're not an employee of the company. You're an external contractor. What they get has no bearing or relevance to what you get - and vice versa.

If you want FTE benefits, become an FTE.

farty90210

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You really don't get this. You're not an employee of the company. You're an external contractor. What they get has no bearing or relevance to what you get - and vice versa.

If you want FTE benefits, become an FTE.

My goodness, how many times do I have state it. I understand it. Even the head management of the site were against it because they knew it would have a negative effect.

At a time when everyone has been working their arse off to help everyone and account for reduced footfall on site, this is just an unnecessary two fingers to people going above and beyond who some should have been made permanent last month but weren't due to the pandemic. And now they miss out on this.

This is different from a normal bonus.

jester77

What a weird post, contractors are not direct employees of the company. You get sick or take vacation, you don't get paid by the company. Bonuses are no different. Take it up with your own company that contracts you out. And a half months pay is not a big bonus, it's just a small thank you for the staff that are probably over worked at the moment to keep the spirits up. Obviously there is an odd sense of entitlement among third parties that is now doing the opposite, and that is a shame in the current situation.

Bojill

farty90210 wrote: »

I'll be making sure I'm not helping any permanent staff like I was before. What's the point?

I would think the point would be to get a fte position when your contract is up.

farty90210

The high and mighty commenting don't understand the absolute bomb that this has caused in work.

It's pretty tone deaf.

Leprechaun77

farty90210 wrote: »

I'll be making sure I'm not helping any permanent staff like I was before. What's the point?

This attitude will certainly not help you into the future anyway....sounds a little immature if I’m honest

Heres Johnny

Just clarify OP, are these independent contractors selling their skills/knowledge to a company for a fee, or are they agency staff providing labour?

If it's the former, they get paid very well anyway and have no need to complain.

If it's the latter it's not possible for the company to pay them a bonus, they pay the agency a monthly invoice and the agency pays the staff

all about the mane

biko wrote: »

The company is only responsible for its employees.

Nah, very shortsighted way of looking at it.

Macker1

farty90210 wrote: »

It's just that it's seen as a pandemic bonus.

Nobody care's about their healthcare, shares, Christmas bonuses etc.

It's drawn a line in the sand between the permanent and external.

I'll be making sure I'm not helping any permanent staff like I was before. What's the point?

The permanent staff on-site didn't make this decision. As much as you feel aggrieved, going down a route of not helping like before is not the answer. It will only potentially hurt yourself in the long run. Many contract staff are made FTE and this would be somewhat dependent on their performance and reputation. In the grand scheme of things it's nothing and I wouldn't let it become a major source of frustration. People working in Pharma are pretty much insulated from the harsh financial realities that are affecting so many people during this crisis. I would bear that in mind.

farty90210

Macker1 wrote: »

The permanent staff on-site didn't make this decision. As much as you feel aggrieved, going down a route of not helping like before is not the answer. It will only potentially hurt yourself in the long run. Many contract staff are made FTE and this would be somewhat dependent on their performance and reputation. In the grand scheme of things it's nothing and I wouldn't let it become a major source of frustration. People working in Pharma are pretty much insulated from the harsh financial realities that are affecting so many people during this crisis. I would bear that in mind.

We're being exposed to more people on a daily basis than people working from home. And some of those people have had the virus and we haven't been told to self isolate. Swings and roundabouts.

Beasty

Threads merged

niallo27

If your a contractor and your rate is not 30 to 40% higher than a full time employee you are being ****ed over and you should ask for more.

gmisk

farty90210 wrote: »

The high and mighty commenting don't understand the absolute bomb that this has caused in work.

It's pretty tone deaf.

Well how would they....we don't work with you as far as we know....

Your a contractor not a permanent employee as you say. Why should you get a bonus?
If you want to huff about it in work, maybe bare in mind your a contractor and the place will take note when your contract is up for renewal.

farty90210

gmisk wrote: »

Well how would they....we don't work with you as far as we know....

Your a contractor not a permanent employee as you say. Why should you get a bonus?
If you want to huff about it in work, maybe bare in mind your a contractor and the place will take note when your contract is up for renewal.

It's not up for renewal though? It has a set end date.

farty90210

niallo27 wrote: »

If your a contractor and your rate is not 30 to 40% higher than a full time employee you are being ****ed over and you should ask for more.

Thanks. I'm definitely getting screwed then.

niallo27

farty90210 wrote: »

Thanks. I'm definitely getting screwed then.

Well they can let you go when they want, pay you no pension, holidays or sick pay. They have to pay a premium for this.

Bojill

niallo27 wrote: »

If your a contractor and your rate is not 30 to 40% higher than a full time employee you are being ****ed over and you should ask for more.

The positions in question aren't contractors in that sense, more like agency for want of a better term.

OU812

farty90210 wrote: »

"They get paid more (sometime a lot)" this is incorrect as for a fact I know the person doing the same job as me is getting paid more.

OK, from that, I take it that you're one of the contractors.

I work (worked) with a bunch of contractors, Was a contractor myself.

Majority of them including myself had a daily rate of at least double the FTEs. some would have three or four times the rate depending on speciality.

What we didn't have was pensions, bonuses, paid annual leave, paid public holidays, paid sick leave.

Double the FTE (minimum) pays for all that stuff.

All the FTEs are on reduced hours now, also have a reduced income, Contractors are mostly gone & those that remain have had their daily rate reduced because of reduced hours, but it's still a minimum of double what the employees get.

If you're getting paid less than an FTE for contracting, then you did a ****ty job negotiating your rate.

farty90210

jester77 wrote: »

What a weird post, contractors are not direct employees of the company. You get sick or take vacation, you don't get paid by the company. Bonuses are no different. Take it up with your own company that contracts you out. And a half months pay is not a big bonus, it's just a small thank you for the staff that are probably over worked at the moment to keep the spirits up. Obviously there is an odd sense of entitlement among third parties that is now doing the opposite, and that is a shame in the current situation.

absolute troll like response

gmisk

farty90210 wrote: »

It's not up for renewal though? It has a set end date.

Alright well see if it's renewed if you decide to kick up a fuss.
If your a contractor who is getting paid less than a permanent employee doing same role.....that is really on you.
Contractors where I work are generally extremely well paid, but you have to take the rough with the smooth.

Macker1

I don't get your "Swings and Roundabouts"

Anyone that has exhibited symptoms should be off-site for 14 days self isolation. There is also contact tracing in affect on-site so if somebody does present with symptoms the people that he or she has interacted with can be contacted and advised.

Each area are being challenged with the tasks of maintaining operations whilst practicing Social Distancing which can be hard at times but medicines are still required so production is being kept going as a priority. In order to do this most people are working from home to reduce footfall and protect people on-site.

I'm not sure what else you are expecting...it's a very fluid situation of which everyone is having to adapt. Very hard on everyone but that's the situation in which we are all operating. It's a lot safer there than working on the frontline like the heroes in the health service trying to save lives.

all about the mane

niallo27 wrote: »

If your a contractor and your rate is not 30 to 40% higher than a full time employee you are being ****ed over and you should ask for more.

All about supply and demand. Plenty others waiting if someone doesn’t want to work there

Macker1

farty90210 wrote: »

It's not up for renewal though? It has a set end date.

The majority of contractors on-site are provided by agency. They are not paid huge sums like it would be in the case of a contractor that operated as a Limited Company.

The contractors do come up for renewal and if the work is there and the person is doing well then the contract would get extended.

farty90210

It's grand. I have another job lined up for better pay. Just a bit sad to leave on a sour note. At least I'll leave with a great reference.

all about the mane

farty90210 wrote: »

It's grand. I have another job lined up for better pay. Just a bit sad to leave on a sour note. At least I'll leave with a great reference.

As a matter of interest, do you think there should have been a bonus at all?

bertsmom

Can you not clarify whether you are a contractor or a member of staff working there on a set contract through an agency?
If you are there through an agency there is not much the company can do for you....