Workplaces and employer attitudes Megathread

JTMan

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Would imagine public transport is a big issue for potentially returning to the office here too. It can barely cope nope normally so if only 1 in 4 seats can be used to ensure social distancing who knows how it will work...

Yeah, the issues with public transport are 3 fold:
(1) Less seats and space so less ability to handle volumes,
(2) People who are unwilling to use public transport due to the virus risk and
(3) Some companies who are unwilling to let their staff use public transport due to staff welfare concerns.

Add these 3 things together and public transport is effectively out in most cases.

For office workers, who use public transport, the simple answer is to continue to work from home where possible.

For construction companies and others who need to be on-site, they may need to sort private transport.

In Wuhan, after they lifted the lockdown, sales of cars soared.

hmmm

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Would imagine public transport is a big issue for potentially returning to the office here too. It can barely cope nope normally so if only 1 in 4 seats can be used to ensure social distancing who knows how it will work...

Yes. It's not just lack of seats, it's the concern about the virus spreading on public transport.

I know one company hurridly reconfiguring seats to get more space between employees who seemed surprised by this when employees raised the issue - I suspect because management mostly drive and haven't even thought about risks in the commute.

I expect it'll be solved fairly easily - anyone who wants to work in the office can do so, the rest will remain WFH.

JTMan

Interesting that France have said that even after they reopen businesses later in May that employees "will continue to work from home where possible".

I hear some people talk as if some staff, who can and do work from home, will return to offices straight away when restrictions start to be listed on 22 May or whenever. Unlikely.

I would guess that Ireland, like France, will tell companies to ensure that staff continue to work from home where possible, for some time after businesses are allowed reopen.

JTMan

Looks like the government green light for the reopening of offices might not happen until September.

The Irish Times reports "The “later phases” would see the wider reopening of the economy – such as pubs and offices – again if social distancing is implemented.". The later phase is obviously the last set of phases and is expected in September.

weldoninhio

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

The company is wrong, not me. Why should I die for other people?

That’s a low life dirty rotten answer.

Are you over 60? Do you have an underlying medical condition?

If the answer is no, then the odds of you dying in a car crash on the way to work are about the same, if not higher, than you dying of Coronavirus.

MoonUnit75

weldoninhio wrote: »

Are you over 60? Do you have an underlying medical condition?

If the answer is no, then the odds of you dying in a car crash on the way to work are about the same, if not higher, than you dying of Coronavirus.

But if you die in a car crash on your way to work you don’t significantly increase the odds of the rest of your family dying in car crashes a few weeks later.

PhilOssophy

weldoninhio wrote: »

Are you over 60? Do you have an underlying medical condition?

If the answer is no, then the odds of you dying in a car crash on the way to work are about the same, if not higher, than you dying of Coronavirus.

Based on what? What are you basing your odds on? Are your odds on a national scale or a much smaller region?

For example - if you did that for an Italian 20-30 something on a national scale, then yes, you probably have higher odds. But if you do the same odds per 20-30 something resident of Bergamo about 5-6 weeks ago........

splashuum

Government seemingly forcing business (who can do so) to work from home even after August 10th.


https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/dd26a8-easing-the-covid-19-restrictions-on-10-august/#work

JTMan

splashuum wrote: »

Government seemingly forcing business (who can do so) to work from home even after August 10th.


https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/dd26a8-easing-the-covid-19-restrictions-on-10-august/#work

Yeah, the overview and phase 5 section on the government website clearly say that remote working is to continue for those that can after phase 5 which starts on 10 August. The detailed roadmap document does not require remote working after phase 5. So the return to office date is either from 10 August or more likely a later date.

faceman

From the Irish Times: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/new-return-to-work-rules-will-see-no-handshaking-or-sharing-of-cups-1.4249604

Scratching my head with the 'sharing of cups' bit and what this means. Surely if workplaces have appropriate cleaning facilities such as dishwashers etc then sharing of cups is a non issue? Wondering if this is going to extremes needlessly. What are your thoughts?

The world we return to is going to be a very lonely place indeed.

faceman

faceman wrote: »

From the Irish Times: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/new-return-to-work-rules-will-see-no-handshaking-or-sharing-of-cups-1.4249604

Scratching my head with the 'sharing of cups' bit and what this means. Surely if workplaces have appropriate cleaning facilities such as dishwashers etc then sharing of cups is a non issue? Wondering if this is going to extremes needlessly. What are your thoughts?

The world we return to is going to be a very lonely place indeed.

The sharing of cups thing seems to be so token that it just devalues the whole thing down to “we need to be seen to be doing something”.

JTMan

Lots more regulations before offices open back up after 10 August.

- Complete forms 3 days before returning to the office.
- Complete questionnaire.
- Implement temperature testing. (How is that going to work? Daily checks by Facilities standing outside the office?)
- Provide induction training that must include all up to date advice.
- Provide detailed plan on how the workplace will be organised.
- Have a point of contact for staff.
- Provide :
o Ventilation, i.e. via a window,
o Tissues, hand sanitiser, disinfectant and/or wipes,
o PPE; gloves, masks,
o Clinical waste bags.
- Create an "isolation area".
- implement thorough and regular cleaning of frequently touched surfaces.
- Cleaning should be performed at least twice per day AND whenever facilities are visibly dirty.
- Increase number of waste collection points and ensure these are emptied regularly throughout and at the end of each day.
- Workers trained on how to use PPE.
- Work from home must continue where possible.
- HSA can shut down an workplace that does not comply.

The list goes on and on here.

At least companies with offices have until 10 August or later whenever they reopen their office to comply.

Some companies may wonder what the point is in reopening an office with all these regulations, better keeping remote working going and staff safe at home.

hmmm

JTMan wrote: »

Some companies may wonder what the point is in reopening an office with all these regulations, better keeping remote working going and staff safe at home.

Makes no sense to open an office under current circumstances unless your work requires physical presence, or you are absolutely convinced your employees are skiving off. Otherwise it's way too much hassle, and probably best seen as a way to facilitate employees who may not want to work from home. Even simple things like meetings are easier using video than under physical distancing.

If you are an employer who is forcing employees into the office who don't need to be there, don't be surprised if you find it very difficult to hire in the future. Sites like Glassdoor will light up.

I'm not entirely convinced WFH is the future for everyone (although it may be for many), but most workplaces can certainly do it for a long time given the current circumstances. There will probably be a lot of IT work required to readjust, and a lot of redundancy required - could see a quick shift to the cloud.

Most of that stuff won’t be bought by companies, and it probably can’t be bought these days anyway. I’ve tried numerous times to buy gloves and masks over the past few weeks and not a hope in hell of getting them.

Employees will need to be involved or at least witness to their temperature testing. If it’s a management person and there’s an order to get out or something they’ll tell the employee whatever temperature will keep them there for the day. The likes of food factories would stab half their staff if they were told it would make them more money so they won’t give one **** about wellbeing.




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JTMan

Going off my own employer (a large MNC with offices in Dublin / worldwide) we will be WFH for the remainder of the year.

Interesting. My employer (large international bank) are targeting September 2020 to start bringing people back into the office in waves. The hope is that schools, creches will be open by then. Also, they don't "want to rush things" after they are allowed to reopen the office on 10 August.

Mr.S wrote: »

PPE (masks and gloves) can be sourced if you are buying large quantities, no issue there.

Agreed. My employer has purchased several thousand masks apparently.

Mr.S wrote: »

Things like 1 day a week in the office for "team days" are being suggested.

Heard the exact same "team days" idea from a few people. The idea seems to be catching on that staff will do 4 days a week at home and 1 day a week in the office, the same day as their team. For managers, the idea is that they will do 3 days a week at home and 2 days a week in the office, 1 for their team and 1 for their management team. Goodbye big offices if this idea catches on.

Feel free to share where you’ve all got these from because I haven’t found masks or gloves in any quantities at all. Gloating about it just smacks of looking after #1.

stephenjmcd

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Feel free to share where you’ve all got these from because I haven’t found masks or gloves in any quantities at all. Gloating about it just smacks of looking after #1.

The document also says PPE where required, that wont be applicable to many large offices, safe to say in my office I cant see where we would need gloves or masks. Our desks are already well spaced out and the company increased cleaning of frequently touched surfaces back in February so no gloves. We've also hand sanitizer located all around the building.

Furryglove

JTMan wrote: »

Interesting. My employer (large international bank) are targeting September 2020 to start bringing people back into the office in waves. The hope is that schools, creches will be open by then. Also, they don't "want to rush things" after they are allowed to reopen the office on 10 August.



Agreed. My employer has purchased several thousand masks apparently.



Heard the exact same "team days" idea from a few people. The idea seems to be catching on that staff will do 4 days a week at home and 1 day a week in the office, the same day as their team. For managers, the idea is that they will do 3 days a week at home and 2 days a week in the office, 1 for their team and 1 for their management team. Goodbye big offices if this idea catches on.

Goodbye jobs more like it, people should be demanding to get back to work ASAP come August, people sitting on their arses on Microsoft teams ain’t going to cut the mustard

stephenjmcd

Mr.S wrote: »

PPE (masks and gloves) can be sourced if you are buying large quantities, no issue there.

--

Going off my own employer (a large MNC with offices in Dublin / worldwide) we will be WFH for the remainder of the year. For our Irish offices, it's a "wait and see" type deal. Lots of employees have expressed interest to return to the office for obvious reasons when it's possible, but it's likely when people are allowed back this side of 2020, they'll have to restrict it to 50-60% capacity at the minimum. Things like 1 day a week in the office for "team days" are being suggested.

Early March before WFH kicked in. We were split into 2 teams, one week 2 days home 3 days in the office, next week 3 days home 2 days office, never came into contact with anyone from the other team. I'd imagine that's the way we'll probably be for the first few months when we go back.

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The document also says PPE where required, that wont be applicable to many large offices, safe to say in my office I cant see where we would need gloves or masks. Our desks are already well spaced out and the company increased cleaning of frequently touched surfaces back in February so no gloves. We've also hand sanitizer located all around the building.

Sanitiser. That’s another thing we’re nearly out of.

stephenjmcd

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Sanitiser. That’s another thing we’re nearly out of.

Yeah I know facilities in my place got in quite early with a big order but about a week before WFH kicked in fully I know they were finding it difficult to get supply. This was the same time you couldn't get it in a pharmacy either

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Yeah I know facilities in my place got in quite early with a big order but about a week before WFH kicked in fully I know they were finding it difficult to get supply. This was the same time you couldn't get it in a pharmacy either

It’s one thing I won’t work without.

Stheno

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Sanitiser. That’s another thing we’re nearly out of.

Theres load of sanitiser in the shops now, Dunnes/ Supervalu have it

My local supervalu and some of the chemists have masks too

My employer is also an MNC and had a supply chain team sourcing PPE in February, they bought huge quantities of facemasks for use in the offices and factories worldwide

I'm fairly sure we wont be going back to the office this year, even things like team days have to be done via teams/skype/zoom as out ot 15 people on my team only three people are in Dublin

One interesting requirement -ventilation and open windows. Hows that going to work in office where there are no windows that can be open?

I doubt aircon would be ok

GM228

Today's announcements and document (granted I have not had time to read it fully yet) seem to deal with businesses which are to re-open, any mention of those already open - there are many and no doubt these measures will be accross the board to both already open and ready to re-open.

Edit: Yes confirmed in the document existing businesses already open must adjust to these measures.

GazzaL

There's loads of hand sanitiser and masks available. Masks should be optional. If someone knows that they're going to be fidgety with a mask then they're better off not using one. Temperature checks should also be optional.

hmmm

JTMan wrote: »

Heard the exact same "team days" idea from a few people. The idea seems to be catching on that staff will do 4 days a week at home and 1 day a week in the office, the same day as their team. For managers, the idea is that they will do 3 days a week at home and 2 days a week in the office, 1 for their team and 1 for their management team. Goodbye big offices if this idea catches on.

Pointless I feel. Shouting across a floor at each other because you need to be 2 metres apart. Risk of sharing desks because floor space is cut at least in half. Risk that one of you brings in the virus, and puts the entire team into quarantine.

Plus there is always the shouty important types who will not adhere to social distancing, and think their shouty antics are motivating for others.

Employers need to put time & effort into making WFH more efficient and comfortable for their staff, and stop trying to make offices happen. Not before a vaccine emerges in 2021.

JTMan

hmmm wrote: »

Pointless I feel.

The 'team day' WFH approach is pointless in the Covid-19 era. Why have your team in the office when you have to keep distance from them and can't have meetings. A remote-only policy until a vaccine occurs makes sense.

However, the 'team day' WFH approach is not pointless as a long-term WFH/remote working approach. Cut your office space by 60-80% but still keep purpose behind going to the office 1 day a week or 2 days a week for managers.

Employers need to put time & effort into making WFH more efficient and comfortable for their staff, and stop trying to make offices happen.

Yeah. I feel some companies are becoming obsessed with return-to-work, in August or whatever later date that it happens, rather than putting money into ensuring that their staff have adequate chairs, desks, laptops etc and ensuring that staff and teams are using video conferencing.

Seve OB

does anyone know if there is any kind of standard office checklist issued that can be sent around to staff. Ie what protocols should be adopted and observed

Stheno

Seve OB wrote: »

does anyone know if there is any kind of standard office checklist issued that can be sent around to staff. Ie what protocols should be adopted and observed

The HSA might be able to advise you if there is one?

JTMan

Seve OB wrote: »

does anyone know if there is any kind of standard office checklist issued that can be sent around to staff. Ie what protocols should be adopted and observed

All the guidelines are here.