Leaving Cert 2020 arrangements due to COVID-19

mdudy

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You said yourself that if you were in this situation that you would repeat in a grinds schools, and that this disadvantages people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. Well.... people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds have never had access to grind schools whether it be for this situation or any other Leaving Cert year. The advantage that you would have had was always available to you, so it's not fair to say that suddenly it only affect those who can't afford it this year. They could never afford it any year.

It is fair to say that; that’s why I said disproportionately. We’re not going to agree, that’s alright.

Regardless, do you honestly think they can feasibly hold the LC in the Summer?

rainbowtrout

mdudy wrote: »

Regardless, do you honestly think they can feasibly hold the LC in the Summer?

In a nutshell, yes.

Tristan_

Reading the Leaving Cert subreddit atm is a... surreal experience. Curses and death threats left and right towards Joe and Leo. The latter of which is currently covering medical shifts while running the country and providing as much information as he can about what's going on. Beyond shocked at the immaturity of so many of my contemporaries. More depressing than shocking actually.

randylonghorn

Tristan_ wrote: »

Reading the Leaving Cert subreddit atm is a... surreal experience. Curses and death threats left and right towards Joe and Leo.

I can imagine, I was on modding duty the night of Englishgate (2009) and that was only one English paper!

You might be as well just switching it (and all thoughts of LC) off for a few days, Tris.

It IS Easter break after all, though it doesn't feel like it!

Forget about it for a few days, get some exercise, relax.

c_f_p99

Look, I was a bit mad with the decision at first (I'm in 6th year too), particularly because they had implemented a system of estimated grades in private last year to hundreds of students. The worst part of the LC is the sheer endurance of it. It's not that difficult, but considering the lack of support now, I'm finding it difficult to know whether or not I really understand the stuff or whether I am prepared or not.

But, I knew that this was going to happen. If you think of it in a positive light, summer holidays will only be deferred to a time when the Covid restrictions are lifted. I just don't know how I'd cope with three more months of this.

The big problem is for people applying abroad (thank god I amn't one of them). I do believe that predicted grades are the better solution as they have been implemented before, but it's not really the worst choice, now that I'm thinking about it. I'll have to deal with much worse sh*t in the future, especially when I enter the job market.

Purefrank128

c_f_p99 wrote: »

I do believe that predicted grades are the better solution as they have been implemented before

Predicted grades have NOT been implemented before by the SEC. What you are talking about are called "assessed grades". These are for the small number of students who have had their work lost or have been similarly disadvantaged. The assessed grade is determined by the SEC having consulted the school and looked at the final LC results of the other students from that school - the ones the school thinks are close in ability to the student who has been disadvantaged. It could not work for a situation where no-one has done the LC.

c_f_p99

Purefrank128 wrote: »

Predicted grades have NOT been implemented before by the SEC. What you are talking about are called "assessed grades". These are for the small number of students who have had their work lost or have been similarly disadvantaged. The assessed grade is determined by the SEC having consulted the school and looked at the final LC results of the other students from that school - the ones the school thinks are close in ability to the student who has been disadvantaged. It could not work for a situation where no-one has done the LC.

Well, okay, they haven't been properly implemented. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that it can be done, it'd just be very costly and time-consuming. I didn't really investigate that incident thoroughly, sorry about that.

Yes, I do think students are overreacting, but to be fair, I cherish summer holidays and having to do intensive work during them is a bit of a nightmare, worse than doing a load of internships and job applications even (or so I can imagine). It's one of those things that a lot of students are not used to (like I remember when I first went to secondary school,the idea of doing homework over the weekend frightened me).

But after thinking about it, people calm down and realise that it's just something that has to be done. It does provide greater certainty than any other alternative. But my god, I really don't want to repeat.

Purefrank128

c_f_p99 wrote: »

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it can be done, it'd just be very costly and time-consuming.

I have no idea if it (predicted grades) would be costly or time-consuming, but I think it would be a lot cheaper and faster than running and marking the LC. What it would be, however, is an extremely inaccurate way of capturing students' abilities, and that's the problem.

<snip trollish remark>

c_f_p99

Purefrank128 wrote: »

I have no idea if it (predicted grades) would be costly or time-consuming, but I think it would be a lot cheaper and faster than running and marking the LC. What it would be, however, is an extremely inaccurate way of capturing students' abilities, and that's the problem.

.

It's fine really. I'm more sick of the LC than anything. The marking process is highly questionable though, especially for certain subjects like Economics (or any Business subject really). Those marking schemes are very vague and don't tell you how something is marked (even for the maths questions). The marking can be highly unfair at times and expect you to do things that are not asked in the questions themselves. They alter their definitions from one year to he next and sometimes, I (and many other students) don't know what they want in these definitions. It's just a means of bringing up or down the grades, which is pathetic really. 5 months ago, I remember reading an article in the Irish Times criticising this method and I'm not surprised about that at all (around the same time the estimated grades were revealed).

But overall, yes, it is much fairer than predicted grades and certainly fairer than the systems in many other countries. I just wish that the methods used for standardizing the grades different (such as changing the marks needed to get a certain grade while keeping marking schemes uniform and consistent) as our one is very unfair.

Purefrank128

c_f_p99 wrote: »

But overall, yes, it is much fairer than predicted grades and certainly fairer than the systems in many other countries. I just wish that the methods used for standardizing the grades different (such as changing the marks needed to get a certain grade while keeping marking schemes uniform and consistent) as our one is very unfair.

Agreed.

Wexford96

The mental health of 6th year students is not something I've heard any mention of from our leaders/rulers. These kids have been building up to June 2020 for the past 5-6 years and the rug has been pulled from under them. The dream of leaving home, studying in the city or overseas, emigrating, joining the army, becoming a member of the workforce or whatever dreams they have, has all been stopped indefinitely by the government/regime.
We were told a few weeks ago that exams would happen 'by hook or by crook'. Now we are told the Junior Cert is a school based assessment like Christmas or Summer tests and that the LC might happen in late July or August. So that a period spanning July 20th to Aug 31st?
The Minister for Ed. might be available to update the students in early June, but until then they're expected to just keep their heads down and prepare for an exam that he could cancel like he has the JC? Where will he be between now and early June? Isn't he the head of Education in Ireland? Has said he wants to become invisible for the next 7 weeks till early June?
What about these kids? What about those in unhappy homes who have longed to get away in Summer 2020? It may be violence in the home, alcoholism or whatever. But I'm sure there are plenty 17/18 year olds out there and their worlds have been torn apart. They've done what they were told all along and the Leaving Cert was their ticket to freedom/independence.
The message given by the Minister is far too vague, and dismissive. I found it to be completely unhelpful and depressing for any kid who needs structure/direction/inspiration in their lives. God help them and their mental health. Teachers/Adults are expected to bring order to our kids/students lives and make them feel as comfortable about the future as possible. Isn't that what all these new CSPE/SPHE type classes are about. Then the Minister of education craps down on top of them like this? It wouldn't happen in a third world nation. I have great sympathy for the 6th year students of our country who are leaderless, cant plan, and have had their routines/structures ripped apart by the politicians in charge. Where there's a will there's a way. These exams could go ahead in June. But the will just isn't there.

rainbowtrout

Wexford96 wrote: »

The dream of leaving home, studying in the city or overseas, emigrating, joining the army, becoming a member of the workforce or whatever dreams they have, has all been stopped indefinitely by the government/regime.

Cop on. There is a global pandemic going on at the moment. Corona virus is delaying exams, do you think we should just open up all the schools and continue as normal?

Those dreams will still happen, it will just be delayed by a few months. Everyone's lives have been put on hold, not just Leaving Certs.

Wexford96 wrote: »

We were told a few weeks ago that exams would happen 'by hook or by crook'. Now we are told the Junior Cert is a school based assessment like Christmas or Summer tests and that the LC might happen in late July or August. So that a period spanning July 20th to Aug 31st?

Junior Cert was never promised to go ahead, only the Leaving Cert. Go back and listen to the statements made by Leo, Joe, Simon etc.

If you bothered to read the press release you would know the timeline that has been outlined.

Wexford96 wrote: »

The Minister for Ed. might be available to update the students in early June, but until then they're expected to just keep their heads down and prepare for an exam that he could cancel like he has the JC? Where will he be between now and early June? Isn't he the head of Education in Ireland? Has said he wants to become invisible for the next 7 weeks till early June?

If social distancing works like it did in China and people have enough cop on to stay at home, corona virus cases will drop, enough to allow the LC to run in late summer. If people behave like selfish fcukwits, then we don't know how it will pan out. Nobody knows. What exactly do you expect the Minister of Education to do for the next 7 weeks. Put out a daily press release saying he's still working towards July/August. He's given a date, he has to work with the teaching unions and SEC to produce a workable plan. They have to recruit more examiners. Some examiners that supervise are over 70 and may not want to supervise, some others will have underlying health issue or might be pregnant and will not want to supervise. They need to work out if some smaller schools have enough suitable rooms to provide space for the exams or if they will need to rent halls, rooms, conference venues. There are a huge amount of logistics to be worked out in the next few weeks, none of which are of any concern to those who will be sitting exams. In the meantime students can continue to study.

Wexford96 wrote: »

What about these kids? What about those in unhappy homes who have longed to get away in Summer 2020? It may be violence in the home, alcoholism or whatever. But I'm sure there are plenty 17/18 year olds out there and their worlds have been torn apart. They've done what they were told all along and the Leaving Cert was their ticket to freedom/independence.

Lots of people are stuck in ****ty situations, but guess what, regardless of whether or not the LC happened in June, they would most likely be stuck in those situations for the remainder of the summer? Where do you think they'd go? Emigrate to Australia? Australia has shut its borders for 6 months. America on a J1? Usit has gone bust, forget the J1 this year... that and Trump has banned European flights. UK???? They've got it worse than us at the moment. Move out??? To where?

You're making it sound like the government have postponed the Leaving Cert just to destroy Leaving Certs lives. Maybe you'll get a bit of perspective in the next few years when this country, and many more like it are trying to recover and rebuild after the huge recession that is coming. Those students might be delighted that their plans were delayed for a while, because there's a good chance if they go to college they'll be graduating into an economy in recession and emigration may not be an attractive option as other countries could be dealing with their own recession.

Wexford96 wrote: »

I have great sympathy for the 6th year students of our country who are leaderless, cant plan, and have had their routines/structures ripped apart by the politicians in charge. Where there's a will there's a way. These exams could go ahead in June. But the will just isn't there.

Go ahead in June? We haven't reached the peak of this virus yet. There are over 9000 cases in the country. Not a hope this could go ahead safely in June without the virus spreading like wildfire and have our health service collapse under the rapid increase in cases. Cop on.

Peregrine

This article provides a good contrast. A lot of skepticism towards predicted grades in Northern Ireland.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-52330339

Larbre34

I see my younger cousin on social media lamenting the damage to his fellow students' mental health, bemoaning the lack of democracy that Leaving Certers 'vote' to cancel the exams has been ignored, exhorting people of all generations to sign his change.org petition and restore equity to this situation....

Then I happened to be talking to his Grandfather yesterday and it turns out that for 2 years he hasn't done a ****ing tap.

Canard

Based at least on the schools in my local area, there isn't a hope that predicted grades would be reliable. There were teachers in my school with years of experience (apparently even in SEC marking) who couldn't follow a marking scheme, let alone give a reliable estimate of grades. I teach in a UK curriculum school and there are constant data captures, which is what we are basing our predicted grades off. My school in Ireland had nothing of the sort and some of my grades shocked my teachers (for better or for worse!). You can't just emulate another country's solution when you haven't laid the groundwork for it.

randylonghorn

And even with a system which at least was in existence, and which was to SOME extent tried and tested ...

Dr. Gill Wyness, UCL Institute of Education. wrote:

I find evidence that the system of predicted grades is inaccurate. Only 16% of applicants achieved the A-level grade points that they were predicted to achieve, based on their best three A-levels. However, the vast majority (75% of applicants) were over-predicted – ie their grades were predicted to be higher than they actually achieved. Students from disadvantaged backgrounds and state schools are more likely to be over-predicted, whilst those at independent schools receive more accurate predictions. However, accuracy varies dramatically according to the A-level attainment of the student with lower[ attaining applicants far more likely to have their grades over-predicted. Therefore, after controlling for prior attainment and background characteristics, students from state schools are actually less likely to be overpredicted than those in independent and grammar schools.

Meanwhile, at the top of the attainment distribution, grades are slightly more likely to be under-predicted, and among these high-attaining students, applicants from low income backgrounds are significantly more likely to have their grades under-predicted than those from high-income backgrounds.

My emphasis.



Source: https://www.ucu.org.uk/media/8409/Predicted-grades-accuracy-and-impact-Dec-16/pdf/Predicted_grades_report_Dec2016.pdf

Larbre34 wrote: »

I see my younger cousin on social media lamenting the damage to his fellow students' mental health, bemoaning the lack of democracy that Leaving Certers 'vote' to cancel the exams has been ignored, exhorting people of all generations to sign his change.org petition and restore equity to this situation....

Then I happened to be talking to his Grandfather yesterday and it turns out that for 2 years he hasn't done a ****ing tap.

Given that the ISSU survey was online, I wonder how often he and others like him voted?

cena

students should just repeat the year.

Peregrine

cena wrote: »

students should just repeat the year.

Then what? Twice the number of students sitting the Leaving Cert next year. Twice the number of students applying to universities next year. No graduates in 3-4 years.

I think the predicted grades system that the students are calling for is full of questions but even that's better than this.

cena

Peregrine wrote: »

Then what? Twice the number of students sitting the Leaving Cert next year. Twice the number of students applying to universities next year. No graduates in 3-4 years.

I think the predicted grades system that the students are calling for is full of questions but even that's better than this.

I don't see how students would ready for exams in the next few months. No all are going to apply for college some may take a year out

combat14

after yesterday's announcement on large events being cancelled and this announcement from the minister today is the leaving cert really going ahead?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/state-working-on-contingency-arrangements-in-case-leaving-cert-cant-go-ahead-in-july-education-minister-39148768.html

History Queen

combat14 wrote: »

after yesterday's announcement on large events being cancelled and this announcement from the minister today is the leaving cert really going ahead?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/state-working-on-contingency-arrangements-in-case-leaving-cert-cant-go-ahead-in-july-education-minister-39148768.html

Yesterday's announcement was based on gatherings of over 5000? How could that have any bearing on the Leaving Cert? And today he said that they are currently running with plan A but also have contingencies being worked on in case needed. Seems prudent. No reason to think at this stage that it won't go ahead.

Please try to avoid scaremongering and baseless speculation. Parents and students are worried enough without worrying about something that may or may not come to pass. Speculationis adding to their misery. My advice to those effected is to focus on the here and now. As of this moment in time the exams are happening. Plan accordingly.

rainbowtrout

combat14 wrote: »

after yesterday's announcement on large events being cancelled and this announcement from the minister today is the leaving cert really going ahead?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/state-working-on-contingency-arrangements-in-case-leaving-cert-cant-go-ahead-in-july-education-minister-39148768.html

But there won't be 5000 students in any school sitting the Leaving Cert. In the biggest schools in the country the LC year group might be between 200-250, which can be split across multiple rooms.

And they have to have a contingency plan. They can't just plan that the LC with 100% go ahead in July/August. They don't know that for sure. Nobody does.

combat14

Interesting article on Hong Kong exams - everyone's temperature checked going in:


Masked Hong Kong students take final school exams

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/masked-hong-kong-students-take-final-school-exams-1.4236789?mode=amp

combat14

dublin branch of TUI call for leaving cert to be cancelled
some good points made:


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/teachers-union-distances-itself-from-branch-seeking-cancellation-of-leaving-cert-1.4238464?mode=amp

mdudy

History Queen wrote: »

Please try to avoid scaremongering and baseless speculation.

Baseless speculation? Lol. It is literally not baseless.

combat14

A leading expert in infectious diseases is calling for students to wear face masks when they’re sitting the Leaving Cert.

A similar measure was adopted for 50,000 pupils in Hong Kong on Friday.

And Professor Sam McConkey, from the RCSI, told The Irish Times that Irish authorities should force students to do likewise.


https://beat102103.com/news/calls-for-students-to-wear-face-masks-when-sitting-the-leaving-cert/

helpful

I heard today that the plan in our local secondary school is to have 4 students per classroom to sit the exams, school cleaners to clean the door handles each time they’re touched and clean the tables and chairs after each exam. Unsure how true it is but it came from a cleaner in the school.
I’m unsure where they would get the man power to supervise the extra exam centres though?
I also think it might be a good idea to have every teacher correct the exams to speed up the process and gives teachers experience too.

rainbowtrout

helpful wrote: »

I heard today that the plan in our local secondary school is to have 4 students per classroom to sit the exams, school cleaners to clean the door handles each time they’re touched and clean the tables and chairs after each exam. Unsure how true it is but it came from a cleaner in the school.
I’m unsure where they would get the man power to supervise the extra exam centres though?
I also think it might be a good idea to have every teacher correct the exams to speed up the process and gives teachers experience too.

There's no point forcing people to correct exams - you can't anyway. But you want people correcting that actually want to do the job and not just do a slapdash effort to get it out of the way.

helpful

rainbowtrout wrote: »

There's no point forcing people to correct exams - you can't anyway. But you want people correcting that actually want to do the job and not just do a slapdash effort to get it out of the way.

That’s a great point I hadn’t thought if it that way.

randylonghorn

With a question over how they will hold exam conferences, the last thing they need is hundreds of inexperienced markers tbh. They will need to have some anyway I suspect who were scheduled to correct JC and will be asked to move up, but at least these will be used to SEC systems, and some of these may have corrected LC before.

Given what we know or can guess of the likely LC timeframe, it is quite possible, even likely, that some marking will carry over into September, when schools will be opening (we hope).

Far more useful for teachers who have no marking experience to try to take a bit of the pressure involved off their colleagues who are marking, and let them get on with the job.

combat14

Is the leaving cert going to be cancelled?

https://www.newstalk.com/news/fianna-fail-says-leaving-cert-exams-cancelled-1009507

rainbowtrout

combat14 wrote: »

Is the leaving cert going to be cancelled?

https://www.newstalk.com/news/fianna-fail-says-leaving-cert-exams-cancelled-1009507

It's not currently. It's just politicians trying to make a name for themselves.

helpful

FF have made things so much worse and are not offering an alternative which is just adding fuel to the fire now. They are likely to be in government soon and don’t seem to have any answers.
What I’m most confused about is why people are saying there’s been no guidance? We’ve been told it’s starting on the 29th of July so the students have an extra few weeks to study. I know it’s hard because they’re not in school but I’m sure this will be factored into the marking and everyone is in the same boat so the curve will remain the same.
In life you can make excuses for things or you can put your head down and get on with it and that’s what the leaving certs need to do. Yes it’s a strange time for these students but they age adults now and this is life!!
Estimated grades just seems unfair you can’t say that work that didn’t mean anything 6 months ago now determines whether you go to college or not!! The amount of cases that would be challenged would make a mockery of the process. If the exams do not happen this year then these students will be judged forever by people in jobs.
Students should be told it starts July 29th so get going with the study and do your best!!

combat14

helpful wrote: »

FF have made things so much worse and are not offering an alternative which is just adding fuel to the fire now. They are likely to be in government soon and don’t seem to have any answers.
What I’m most confused about is why people are saying there’s been no guidance? We’ve been told it’s starting on the 29th of July so the students have an extra few weeks to study. I know it’s hard because they’re not in school but I’m sure this will be factored into the marking and everyone is in the same boat so the curve will remain the same.
In life you can make excuses for things or you can put your head down and get on with it and that’s what the leaving certs need to do. Yes it’s a strange time for these students but they age adults now and this is life!!
Estimated grades just seems unfair you can’t say that work that didn’t mean anything 6 months ago now determines whether you go to college or not!! The amount of cases that would be challenged would make a mockery of the process. If the exams do not happen this year then these students will be judged forever by people in jobs.
Students should be told it starts July 29th so get going with the study and do your best!!

Looks like FF could be in power shortly.... so anything could happen to LC yet ...

randylonghorn

What's really unfair on students is that the media have so little happening / to talk about that they're stirring it and stirring it, and of course politicians are wired to always say they would do it "better" than the opposition party even if they don't understand the issues (and don't care coz it's not their responsibility at the moment!). So the LC students are being used as a political football right now.

Far better for their own mental health / stress levels tbh if they ignored the politicians, the media, twitter, the "experts" from the UK and Dubai and whoever else is dragged in to comment, etc., for the sake of filling airtime / paragraph inches.

combat14

looks teacher unions having emergency meetings tonight should be interesting to see what comes out of it ..

SleetAndSnow

Cancelled to be replaced with predictive grades. Leaving Cert exams set to be cancelled and replaced with predicted grades (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-exams-set-to-be-cancelled-and-replaced-with-predicted-grades-1.4247877

hairyprincess

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

Cancelled to be replaced with predictive grades. Leaving Cert exams set to be cancelled and replaced with predicted grades (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/leaving-cert-exams-set-to-be-cancelled-and-replaced-with-predicted-grades-1.4247877

That is speculation, not fact. There has not been an announcement yet.

mdudy

Anyone with an ounce of intelligence would have seen this coming.

PTH2009

Heart goes out to everyone doing them

Cant imagine the stress and worry students and parents/guardians are going through

hairyprincess

It’sa horrible situation but I don’t believe the exams can go ahead with this virus. Predicted grades aren’t the panacea either but no matter what choice is made there are students, teachers and parents who aren’t going to be happy.
I don’t envy the government ministers , they are in uncharted waters.

Peregrine

Interesting times. I wonder how this will work with paid schools. Will parents expect good grades for the €25-35k they've given the schools?

stephenjmcd

Can't imagine what students feel like tonight, all that work over the last few years for it to end like this.

I dont know what the answer is but predictive grades aren't it.

Personally I'd be quite annoyed, Christmas and summer exams being factored in just isn't the same especially when it comes to college places.
Hopefully its cleared up quite quickly

cena

Sounds like they are thinking of going the leaving cert applied system route

Choochtown

Apologies if this has been mentioned but I think there may be a way to make predicted grades only applicable to a small percentage of students.
I'm open to correction on anything I write below as this is just off the top of my head.

The main reason LC results are needed are for 3rd level places. Therefore get the 3rd level institutes involved. The vast vast majority of students who want to go on to 3rd level get to go on. We just need to be a little bit clever with how places are allocated.

Some courses are oversubscribed and some are under-subscribed so lets start with the under-subscribed.

Example: A particular Chemistry degree in UCC has 50 places. 43 students have it as 1st choice on their CAO form. Therefore those 43 are automatically given a place. Straight away we have 43 students who don't need predicted grades and there's 7 places spare to offer during "round 2".
This process is repeated with every single under-subscribed 3rd level course in the country. Those students who had the course down as their 1st choice are not required to obtain predicted grades.
There are also quite a few courses who have interviews and portfolios as part of their entry requirements. Based on these, Colleges should be able to identify some students who have been exceptional in this regard and offer them places regardless of their leaving cert grades.

So that's round 1 done and a few thousand students who don't need LC grades.

Now on to round 2: The over-subscribed courses. Example: A particular Chemistry degree in UL is oversubscribed. Every student who has Chemistry in UL as their 1st choice is made aware that there are places available in (for example) UCC. An individual student may elect to take one of these guaranteed places or may decide to "risk" getting their predicted grades and holding out for their 1st choice.

Now after round 1 and round 2 the students who have decided not to take a course and stick it out can take their chances and apply for predicted grades.

Not a perfect system but much better than teachers having to give every single LC student in the country predicted grades.

randylonghorn

This is the answer to uncertainty?

Far more uncertainty for LC students if this is the plan.

They have my genuine sympathies.

rainbowtrout

Choochtown wrote: »

Apologies if this has been mentioned but I think there may be a way to make predicted grades only applicable to a small percentage of students.
I'm open to correction on anything I write below as this is just off the top of my head.

The main reason LC results are needed are for 3rd level places. Therefore get the 3rd level institutes involved. The vast vast majority of students who want to go on to 3rd level get to go on. We just need to be a little bit clever with how places are allocated.

Some courses are oversubscribed and some are under-subscribed so lets start with the under-subscribed.

Example: A particular Chemistry degree in UCC has 50 places. 43 students have it as 1st choice on their CAO form. Therefore those 43 are automatically given a place. Straight away we have 43 students who don't need predicted grades and there's 7 places spare to offer during "round 2".
This process is repeated with every single under-subscribed 3rd level course in the country. Those students who had the course down as their 1st choice are not required to obtain predicted grades.
There are also quite a few courses who have interviews and portfolios as part of their entry requirements. Based on these, Colleges should be able to identify some students who have been exceptional in this regard and offer them places regardless of their leaving cert grades.

So that's round 1 done and a few thousand students who don't need LC grades.

Now on to round 2: The over-subscribed courses. Example: A particular Chemistry degree in UL is oversubscribed. Every student who has Chemistry in UL as their 1st choice is made aware that there are places available in (for example) UCC. An individual student may elect to take one of these guaranteed places or may decide to "risk" getting their predicted grades and holding out for their 1st choice.

Now after round 1 and round 2 the students who have decided not to take a course and stick it out can take their chances and apply for predicted grades.

Not a perfect system but much better than teachers having to give every single LC student in the country predicted grades.

And if that student drops out of their course next year for whatever reason, where do they go with no Leaving Cert?

You can’t create even more inequality by only giving grades to a certain cohort.

You also can’t just allow students to enter courses because they are undersubscribed. They have to meet requirements. Those requirements are there for a reason.

spaceHopper

This is totally wrong, I did my leaving in 1991, I'm dyslexic and then there was very little support for students with dyslexia, I was lucky my exam papers were corrected by examiners who took it into account, they excused my bad spelling and more time to decrypt me appalling hand writing.

My teaches had written me off for the intercert, they didn't know then about the arrangement for correcting papers I came out with 1 A, 7 B's and a C. They were floored. Even so I still had a hard time with the leaving one teacher told me I could do a computer coding class at lunch time because of my dyslexia, now I'm a electronics design engineer, I can code in more than 6 computer languages.

Predicted grades carry to much bias on the part of the teaches it can't be done fairly or normalissed to curve

randylonghorn

See, we're all human and fallible.

Teachers too, despite the rumours.

They don't always get it right, and that's a hell of a problem when they're asked to set a student's grade for LC.

In fairness to them, they know this ... which is why they don't want to do it. Not coz they're lazy bastards, but because they are neither stupid nor have they God-delusions. The vast majority of them anyway.

Btw, space, fair fks to ya, man!

zeebre12

A teacher is surely going to give a better mark to their students now? Why wouldn't they? Also what about private schools/teacher is your neighbour/teacher is your parent? What teacher is really going to fail anyone especially honours Maths?