Do people need full pay in this environment?

Doctor Nick

I work in a small company of 11 people. Three of my colleagues are off because of the current situation. I'm doing their work in addition to my own. I do of course expect my full pay next week.

Deeper Blue

I'm working from home but I'm working just as hard as ever, sorry but why should I take a pay cut?

daheff

mariaalice wrote: »

If you have a mortgage or renting they are.

no they arent.

deferral isnt removing the payment.

mortgage holiday means the payment & accrued interest get added to the bill and you end up paying MORE over time.

Not surprised banks are happy to do this.

daheff

namloc1980 wrote: »

Say €200k mortgage at 3.5% would be interest over 3 months of €1,750.

Better way for you to think of this is like having your normal mortgage. you stop paying this for 2-3 months. then restart it paying it after the crisis.

But you now have another mortgage the 2-3 months payments you didnt pay.
this second mortgage accrues interest for the life of the mortgage too. But you never pay any of this mortgage until your last couple of mortgage payments (which could be extra months tacked onto the end of your mortgage).

so 3 months at 1600 (4800) missed ends up costing you 6,464 if you had to repay it over 20 years @1.5%

BarryD2

Idbatterim wrote: »

The way I see it is, you could get the older and more at risk to isolate. even those older people working in say retail like supervalu, pubs, deli's etc etc, its not like there wont be young people lining up now for those positions.

I'd be thinking that's the way it will pan out. Once a few weeks have passed and we can see the nature of the beast and a good few people have had the dose, there'll be a move to get these back to work whilst advising those older and compromised to sit it out a while longer. Not going to be easy for anyone though.

LeeroyJ.

Most of my Salary is used on rent so If it was cut I would have just barely enough to live off of and nothing to save.

pwurple

pwurple wrote: »

Bills dropping?

Parents have each had to set up bloomin' schools in their houses for children. Printers, internet connections and laptops. Books, ink. Heat the house while they are in it. You know, all the stuff we pay schools to do as well from our taxes. There are 1 million children in the state, no longer in school or creche.

Tough times.

Lurching

Lurching wrote: »

€1,687. Why would I pause my mortgage when I'm still working as normal and earn every penny I get?

What an odd comment, Yes why would you? this is aimed at thsoe who have been laid off.

We are both working away I feel very sorry for those who have been suddenly oadi off.

Thelonious Monk

Maybe we should be paying some people more. White van men, cleaners, shop workers... I hope people don't look down at the actual people who old the country together after this crisis.

trumptheman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Maybe we should be paying some people more. White van men, cleaners, shop workers... I hope people don't look down at the actual people who old the country together after this crisis.

Why exactly? Not trying to be smart here but I could probably do the job after a week of training?

Also just want to add I say a lot of people with new cars really now regret getting them.

Fann Linn

trumptheman wrote: »

Why exactly? Not trying to be smart here but I could probably do the job after a week of training?

Also just want to add I say a lot of people with new cars really now regret getting them.

But in today's new world the girl working on the till in Dunnes or the lad pushing your mother to x ray are probably worth more now to society than the accountant or solicitor or the person with a few degrees.

trumptheman

Fann Linn wrote: »

But in today's new world the girl working on the till in Dunnes or the lad pushing your mother to x ray are probably worth more now to society than the accountant or solicitor or the person with a few degrees.

Not really, anyone could walk into Dunnes stores and after a week of training do their job.

An accountant is doing funds for a company keeping our economy going along with people in IT, Business etc. That takes many years of training and not just a week. If we had no accountants the countries economy would be dead in a week.

Welfare has to come from somewhere as well.

c.p.w.g.w

mariaalice wrote: »

If you have a mortgage or renting they are.

The mortgage "holiday" will add to the overall cost of your mortgage, so best avoided

Thelonious Monk

trumptheman wrote: »

Why exactly? Not trying to be smart here but I could probably do the job after a week of training?

Also just want to add I say a lot of people with new cars really now regret getting them.

Because they're going to be working their bollocks off aren't they. I salute them, imagine the sh*t they're putting up with now. My gfs office has the cleaning staff doing intensive cleaning everywhere right now, and I bet they're not getting a penny more.

trumptheman

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Because they're going to be working their bollocks off aren't they. I salute them, imagine the sh*t they're putting up with now. My gfs office has the cleaning staff doing intensive cleaning everywhere right now, and I bet they're not getting a penny more.

I don't understand why they should? I really don't.

If their working overtime then yea they should be but if doing the same hours then no.

Fann Linn

Fann Linn wrote: »

But in today's new world the girl working on the till in Dunnes or the lad pushing your mother to x ray are probably worth more now to society than the accountant or solicitor or the person with a few degrees.

Theres thousands newly unemployed..... There won't be pay rises for folk working tills etc.

trumptheman

trumptheman wrote: »

Not really, anyone could walk into Dunnes stores and after a week of training do their job.

The point he is making is that the job itself, the actual work carried out, is more beneficial to society as a whole when the chips are down, rather than the lads with marketing degrees coming out their ears.

kennethsmyth

mariaalice wrote: »

If you have a mortgage or renting they are.

Ehh... no my mortgage bill is not being cut, it still exists even if i delay payment, it still needs to be paid. If i work i need to be paid my due.

witchgirl26

trumptheman wrote: »

Not really, anyone could walk into Dunnes stores and after a week of training do their job.

An accountant is doing funds for a company keeping our economy going along with people in IT, Business etc. That takes many years of training and not just a week. If we had no accountants the countries economy would be dead in a week.

Welfare has to come from somewhere as well.

Yes but would they be willing to do that job in the current environment with the risks that it now entails? You're asking someone to do a very low paid job relatively speaking which contains the risk of them becoming infected with a disease that can cause problems not just for them but for all those around them.

I'm an accountant and yes it does take a shed load of training. That said I was always taught that the cleaner is as important as the CEO. Each keeps the business running but in different ways. There wouldn't be an economy to keep going if frontline staff members of businesses didn't come in to work. All the accountants in the world couldn't save that economy.....unless they did the frontline jobs themselves.

trumptheman

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Yes but would they be willing to do that job in the current environment with the risks that it now entails? You're asking someone to do a very low paid job relatively speaking which contains the risk of them becoming infected with a disease that can cause problems not just for them but for all those around them.

I'm an accountant and yes it does take a shed load of training. That said I was always taught that the cleaner is as important as the CEO. Each keeps the business running but in different ways. There wouldn't be an economy to keep going if frontline staff members of businesses didn't come in to work. All the accountants in the world couldn't save that economy.....unless they did the frontline jobs themselves.

You could do the cleaners job almost immediately, the cleaners job can't do yours.

Hence the level in pay difference. If they don't want to do their job during the Corona virus other people will gladly do it.

It does not justify a pay increase whatsoever.

witchgirl26

trumptheman wrote: »

You could do the cleaners job almost immediately, the cleaners job can't do yours.

Hence the level in pay difference. If they don't want to do their job during the Corona virus other people will gladly do it.

It does not justify a pay increase whatsoever.

Way to miss the point completely.

Yes I could technically do that job, although there is a lot more to it that just wiping down counters, and yes you're right they might not be able to do mine (unless the cleaner was someone who had the qualifications from their own country but weren't as recognised here so would have to do exams to be able to, it happens). However the point is whether people are willing to put themselves in the *risk* position that currently exists by working as a cleaner in some places or on the tills in a supermarket.

Jobs with higher *risk* associated always carried higher pay no matter how menial the tasks as you weren't paying them for the skillset then necessarily but rather for taking that *risk*. In a pandemic, like we're in, workers who deal with customers on a continuous basis are taking a *risk* to provide the public with an ongoing service. Why shouldn't they get some extra for keeping the supply chain flowing to your table?

The_Brood

If you need to start cutting, start at the very top, stay at the very top, and when that gets dramatically depleted, move one step down if you need to. Don't worry - they'll still be very rich.

I promise you the vast majority of working men and women won't be affected.

Sultan of Bling

witchgirl26 wrote:

Jobs with higher *risk* associated always carried higher pay no matter how menial the tasks as you weren't paying them for the skillset then necessarily but rather for taking that *risk*. In a pandemic, like we're in, workers who deal with customers on a continuous basis are taking a *risk* to provide the public with an ongoing service. Why shouldn't they get some extra for keeping the supply chain flowing to your table?

Not to mention the supermarkets are making an absolute fortune.

trumptheman

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Way to miss the point completely.

Yes I could technically do that job, although there is a lot more to it that just wiping down counters, and yes you're right they might not be able to do mine (unless the cleaner was someone who had the qualifications from their own country but weren't as recognised here so would have to do exams to be able to, it happens). However the point is whether people are willing to put themselves in the *risk* position that currently exists by working as a cleaner in some places or on the tills in a supermarket.

Jobs with higher *risk* associated always carried higher pay no matter how menial the tasks as you weren't paying them for the skillset then necessarily but rather for taking that *risk*. In a pandemic, like we're in, workers who deal with customers on a continuous basis are taking a *risk* to provide the public with an ongoing service. Why shouldn't they get some extra for keeping the supply chain flowing to your table?

Because its just check out work and stocking shelves, if they don't do it they could have a replacement in a day, hence why there should be no increase in salary.

witchgirl26

trumptheman wrote: »

Because its just check out work and stocking shelves, if they don't do it they could have a replacement in a day, hence why there should be no increase in salary.

Would you be willing to do it knowing the risk you’re taking of contracting Covid-19? On a daily basis. And whatever about you being sick, passing that on to someone you love?
I think it normal times a lot of people would have no problem doing it but less so right now.
Plus there’s always the people who think they’re above that kind of work.

trumptheman

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Would you be willing to do it knowing the risk you’re taking of contracting Covid-19? On a daily basis. And whatever about you being sick, passing that on to someone you love?
I think it normal times a lot of people would have no problem doing it but less so right now.
Plus there’s always the people who think they’re above that kind of work.

If they don't like it they know where the door is.

Jade2015

mariaalice wrote: »

If you have a mortgage or renting they are.

Did I miss the news, are they now lowering peoples mortgages.?Last I heard it was just a break from mortgage payments. You still have to pay it all back it's just deferred down the road

BuboBubo

Yes I do.

I'm still working, still buying fuel, still eating, still paying a mortgage. Electricity, pet food, broadband blah blah blah.

Rubberchikken

I don't see any chance of being laid off or hours cut in the job I do yet I need my full wage. Can't see any opportunity to reduce costs and j don't go to the pub, have a mortgage or rent even activities:(.

Jade2015

I couldnt afford holidays etc before this virus. I was only working casual hours as have children to look after. Now I dont even have that small income and my Bill's will increase due to being at home with the kids all the time.

Pkiernan

The_Brood wrote: »

If you need to start cutting, start at the very top, stay at the very top, and when that gets dramatically depleted, move one step down if you need to. Don't worry - they'll still be very rich.

I promise you the vast majority of working men and women won't be affected.

Just the people that pay all the tax will be affected.

witchgirl26

trumptheman wrote: »

If they don't like it they know where the door is.

Again avoiding the direct question I asked you. Would you put yourself at risk at the moment & do their job?

Jade2015

Jade2015 wrote: »

Did I miss the news, are they now lowering peoples mortgages.?Last I heard it was just a break from mortgage payments. You still have to pay it all back it's just deferred down the road

Its a pause that is all, interest will. still accrue that has been pointed put several times.

trumptheman

trumptheman wrote: »

If they don't like it they know where the door is.

You would have to wonder about the mentality of someone who would re reg to troll a thread about people losing their income and jobs.

trumptheman

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Again avoiding the direct question I asked you. Would you put yourself at risk at the moment & do their job?

I think your missing the point, What difference is a wage increase going to make?

They can be replaced in the morning and thousands would take their place.

No I wouldn't do it but theirs plenty that would be happy in the morning that would and only takes a few days of training.

witchgirl26

trumptheman wrote: »

I think your missing the point, What difference is a wage increase going to make?

They can be replaced in the morning and thousands would take their place.

No I wouldn't do it but theirs plenty that would be happy in the morning that would and only takes a few days of training.

No I'm not missing the point. People who are on the front line of essential services (I'm not talking emergency services but rather pharmacies, supermarkets etc) that are keeping things running for you & I do deserve a little bit more than minimum wage considering the increase in risk in their job. A wage increase can help them maybe put some away should they end up unable to work for a few weeks due to getting sick. Also it's reward for doing a job.

So you think thousands would do it but you wouldn't. :rolleyes: Any reason why? Is it beneath you? You wouldn't risk catching Corona virus? But you're happy to let others do it and not reward them fairly in a changed time for doing a job that carries more risk. It might not take as much training as other roles but I can't see many rushing out to do it right at this point comparatively.

trumptheman

witchgirl26 wrote: »

No I'm not missing the point. People who are on the front line of essential services (I'm not talking emergency services but rather pharmacies, supermarkets etc) that are keeping things running for you & I do deserve a little bit more than minimum wage considering the increase in risk in their job. A wage increase can help them maybe put some away should they end up unable to work for a few weeks due to getting sick. Also it's reward for doing a job.

So you think thousands would do it but you wouldn't. :rolleyes: Any reason why? Is it beneath you? You wouldn't risk catching Corona virus? But you're happy to let others do it and not reward them fairly in a changed time for doing a job that carries more risk. It might not take as much training as other roles but I can't see many rushing out to do it right at this point comparatively.

There is a lot more going on behind the scenes like I.T, accounting, Logistics that are keeping these Supermarkets up and running and these people are not easily replaced.

Believe me when I say if people don't like working at checkout or stocking shelves and quit, their role will be filled in the morning and that's why the wage doesn't need to be increased. Its basic economics.

Maybe the Supermarket can give them a 50 euro one4all voucher at the end to show their gratitude once its over.

And to answer your question yes it would be beneath me as would take a hit of 50K a year. I'm currently working from home.

HartsHat

But lots of people are working just as hard/long or harder/longer than they were previous?

Doctors, Nurses, Hauliers, Retail staff in grocery stores, Civil Servants (particularly in the Department of Health), Gardaí, Firemen, Soldiers, ICT staff across organisations Bin men etc., why would these essential staff take a pay cut?

HartsHat

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What about civil servants at home doing nothing as they don't have the provision to work from home and are being advised not to come in? This is all unprecedented but sooner or later we're all going to have to take massive cuts to help out.

This would end up impacting the lowest paid people in the Civil Service, as middle/senior civil servants are working from home as they have the technology to do so and the roles are such that they're busier in a crisis like this (policy work/coordination/advice and briefing at a political level) rather than Clerical Officers who have neither the tech (not their fault) nor the role to do work.

It's interesting that everyone knows the rules, Private Sector (higher pay, less stability), Public Sector (lower pay, more stability), but when circumstances change people want to change the rules.

I took a massive pay cut to joint the Civil Service (base pay more than halved not even including bonuses etc.) and that's fine, that's a choice I made, I knew the T&Cs. But I'm hardly going forgoe the stability of the role when I had to endure the massive pay cut when times were good for the private sector (I'm also working 16/17 hour days under intense pressure trying to respond to the pandemic).

HartsHat

Also, since when was pay based on 'need'?

If it was, no one in the world would earn over 100k, ever.

If that's the system people want, fine. But let's make it that forever, not just the pandemic.

knipex

Pkiernan wrote:

Inflation will be zero and fuel costs are down. Couple that with mortgage and rent holidays, we simply don't need full pay (private, public or welfare) at this time.

Who has mortgage holidays?? Who is at home on full pay. Couple with kids are either paying extra from someone to mind their kids or one is off work to look after them..

witchgirl26

trumptheman wrote: »

There is a lot more going on behind the scenes like I.T, accounting, Logistics that are keeping these Supermarkets up and running and these people are not easily replaced.

Believe me when I say if people don't like working at checkout or stocking shelves and quit, their role will be filled in the morning and that's why the wage doesn't need to be increased. Its basic economics.

Maybe the Supermarket can give them a 50 euro one4all voucher at the end to show their gratitude once its over.

And to answer your question yes it would be beneath me as would take a hit of 50K a year. I'm currently working from home.

I know what goes on behind the scenes. I work in accounting for a group that owns retail businesses. Believe me in the current climate it's a lot easier to get accountants than it is to get any staff for the shops.

Realistically it is the people on the ground that really keep those retail businesses moving. If they weren't there, there would be no jobs for those behind the scenes.

See and that's where we differ - I would be taking a similar if not larger pay cut to work there but I don't consider it beneath me. I'm also currently working from home. Safe & sound with a lot lower risk of catching the disease. Maybe consider that when talking about people who are taking the risk so you can continue to get food on your table no matter how much you earn.