Is it just me or have SF vanished?

aido79

McMurphy wrote: »

New figures were released Fri, Sat and Sunday.

New figures were also released on Monday, but they are saying they were numbers reported, not that they necessarily happened in 24 hrs from what I can gather.

Which throws the other daily death reports into jeopardy too, because them 77 (if not earlier reported) have not been factored in on other days.

The 77 deaths all over the news yesterday, if they happened over a 24hr period, well them that puts us on par with the Italians on a population scale.

It was actually explained further up the thread by bishop of hope, and still the party faithfuls aren't getting it, as mark and others have done before him have just muttered something about 77 v 919

Nothing has changed. The deaths have always been called reported deaths. The deaths may or may not have occurred in the preceding 24 hours. This might help you understand it a bit better:

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1132271/

You are comparing apples with oranges in the Ireland v Italy figures. You aren't taking into account things such as population density which is a big factor in the worst hit areas globally. Italy is more densely populated than Ireland.

McMurphy

aido79 wrote: »

Nothing has changed. The deaths have always been called reported deaths. The deaths may or may not have occurred in the preceding 24 hours. This might help you understand it a bit better:

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1132271/

You are comparing apples with oranges in the Ireland v Italy figures. You aren't taking into account things such as population density which is a big factor in the worst hit areas globally. Italy is more densely populated than Ireland.

Which arguably makes our figure's more concerning.

aido79

McMurphy wrote: »

If the same aunt developed pleurisy in her lung as a result of covid 19 would she still have been expected to show her face to the public and work away from home less she be berated as not having a great work ethic is the more pertinent question though.

Should the aunt have informed anyone that she had taken a test for covid19 or just said she had a head cold and then nothing for 2 weeks? She wouldn't need to show her face in public to do this.

This is the only problem non shinners have with the way Mary Lou handled it not her work ethic or the seriousness of her condition. If Leo Varadkar had symptoms of covid19 and got tested would you be happy if he said he had a head cold and failed to mention getting tested for covid19?

aido79

McMurphy wrote: »

Which arguably makes our figure's more concerning.

I would argue the opposite. Less density should translate to a lower transmission rate in the community.

Bishop of hope

McMurphy wrote: »

77 deaths population of 5 million
919 deaths population 60 million

In fact if we get 77 deaths in a single day, that would give us an even worse daily death toll than Italy has had this far.


Do the maths yourself.

Not so, just slightly under.

smurgen

aido79 wrote: »

Nothing has changed. The deaths have always been called reported deaths. The deaths may or may not have occurred in the preceding 24 hours. This might help you understand it a bit better:

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1132271/

You are comparing apples with oranges in the Ireland v Italy figures. You aren't taking into account things such as population density which is a big factor in the worst hit areas globally. Italy is more densely populated than Ireland.

So they days previous to the 77 were less than what actually happened. But on the day of the 77, there would have been deaths occuring on that day not also counted.

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

If the same aunt developed pleurisy in her lung as a result of covid 19 would she still have been expected to show her face to the public and work away from home less she be berated as not having a great work ethic is the more pertinent question though.

You still dont get it do you.

Bishop of hope

We are gone off on a tangent here, the usual deflection from SF supporters.
Day 2 out of isolation for ML, still damn all to report on from her or her buddies.

aido79

smurgen wrote: »

So they days previous to the 77 were less than what actually happened. But on the day of the 77, there would have been deaths occuring on that day not also counted.

I'm not really sure why you're having difficulty with this but maybe read the article again and take a better look at the graph of actual deaths v deaths reported to NPHE as covid19 deaths. Take for example on the 16th of April there were 13 actual deaths but 42 reported deaths. Due to delays in results through testing or autopsies the actual deaths will never match the reported deaths.

smurgen

aido79 wrote: »

I'm not really sure why you're having difficulty with this but maybe read the article again and take a better look at the graph of actual deaths v deaths reported to NPHE as covid19 deaths. Take for example on the 16th of April there were 13 actual deaths but 42 reported deaths. Due to delays in results through testing or autopsies the actual deaths will never match the reported deaths.

I'm not having difficulty. What I'm saying in that yesterday's actual deaths were not all reported in yesterdays numbers some are outstanding.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

So they days previous to the 77 were less than what actually happened. But on the day of the 77, there would have been deaths occuring on that day not also counted.

Quite possibly.

However, if on the day of the 77, there were a whole lot of tests back from Germany at the same time that proved that a lot of deaths over the previous week were actually Covid-19 and not ordinary deaths, you could have had a one-off spike in the statistics.

That is why unless you are trying to spin, you won’t take one days figure in isolation.

aido79

smurgen wrote: »

I'm not having difficulty. What I'm saying in that yesterday's actual deaths were not all reported in yesterdays numbers some are outstanding.

Yes. That is the way it's been since the start of covid19 deaths being reported.

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

Quite possibly.

However, if on the day of the 77, there were a whole lot of tests back from Germany at the same time that proved that a lot of deaths over the previous week were actually Covid-19 and not ordinary deaths, you could have had a one-off spike in the statistics.

That is why unless you are trying to spin, you won’t take one days figure in isolation.

A considered response. What I'm getting at is that spin can work pro and against tho. That's why I wouldn't be rushing to downplay 77 deaths.

walshb

McMurphy wrote: »

77 deaths population of 5 million
919 deaths population 60 million

In fact if we get 77 deaths in a single day, that would give us an even worse daily death toll than Italy has had this far.


Do the maths yourself.

Kind of pathetic points scoring this..

We have "more" deaths than you, so we are bad......?

Stupid type stuff as well....Kind of like Trump, but the opposite, as in him and his very odd and weird gloating....

Overall we could be in a whole lot worse a predicament had we not implemented our measures and stuck with them.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

77 deaths population of 5 million
919 deaths population 60 million

In fact if we get 77 deaths in a single day, that would give us an even worse daily death toll than Italy has had this far.


Do the maths yourself.

One slight problem with your logic there
Those 77 deaths were not all in one day
Many of them were from several days ago depending on when they were reported
That point was made by Dr Holahan yesterday at the briefing
So nowhere near Italys daily death toll,which by the way only includes hospital deaths
Unlike ours which includes outside hospitals

Apples and oranges

Whelo79

Can someone answer me this. What do you expect SF or any other opposition party to be doing right now? In my opinion the only three things they can do are

A) Support the current government in it's decision making

Put forward ideas and motions

C) Hold the current government accountable and question them on any poor decisions that have been made.

No opposition party has any powers to enact legislation, make decisions, enforce rules etc etc.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

A considered response. What I'm getting at is that spin can work pro and against tho. That's why I wouldn't be rushing to downplay 77 deaths.

I am not giving the 77 deaths at this point any significance good or bad. If in a week's time, the number is 277 deaths, we will know what the 77 signified. Statistics rely on patterns at all times.

One thing we do know, when the numbers peak, we will have already passed the peak, given the lag in reporting numbers. Whether the numbers have peaked yet, you never know until the next day.

blanch152

Whelo79 wrote: »

Can someone answer me this. What do you expect SF or any other opposition party to be doing right now? In my opinion the only three things they can do are

A) Support the current government in it's decision making

Put forward ideas and motions

C) Hold the current government accountable and question them on any poor decisions that have been made.

No opposition party has any powers to enact legislation, make decisions, enforce rules etc etc.

The difference with Sinn Fein is that we can watch what they are and aren't doing as part of government in another jurisdiction.

1641

Surely, not to be outdone, The SF publicity machine will be announcing that they are releasing all of their balaclava stockpile to the public?

https://www.thejournal.ie/orange-order-buys-ppe-shipment-5079583-Apr2020/

Whelo79

blanch152 wrote: »

The difference with Sinn Fein is that we can watch what they are and aren't doing as part of government in another jurisdiction.

That's not what I asked, but I have become used to you skirting around providing answers. Are you sure you are not a politician yourself? You have many of the necessary traits.

markodaly

walshb wrote: »

Kind of pathetic points scoring this..

We have "more" deaths than you, so we are bad......?

Stupid type stuff as well....Kind of like Trump, but the opposite, as in him and his very odd and weird gloating....

Overall we could be in a whole lot worse a predicament had we not implemented our measures and stuck with them.

To be honest, this is all getting macabre and pathetic.

There are some people out there that would love for the situation in Ireland to be worse so that they can get on the blowhorn and get some cheap political point scoring-in via a tweet or such.
More Irish dead = better for their political 'team'

As I said, it says a lot more about them.

Whelo79

markodaly wrote: »

To be honest, this is all getting macabre and pathetic.

There are some people out there that would love for the situation in Ireland to be worse so that they can get on the blowhorn and get some cheap political point scoring-in via a tweet or such.
More Irish dead = better for their political 'team'

As I said, it says a lot more about them.

So stop engaging that style of discussion. Go back a few posts and answer my question.

blanch152

Whelo79 wrote: »

Can someone answer me this. What do you expect SF or any other opposition party to be doing right now? In my opinion the only three things they can do are

A) Support the current government in it's decision making

Put forward ideas and motions

C) Hold the current government accountable and question them on any poor decisions that have been made.

No opposition party has any powers to enact legislation, make decisions, enforce rules etc etc.

Your post is inaccurate in how it describes the current situation.

You say that "no opposition party has any powers to enact legislation..", when it is the fact that given the Seanad hasn't been formed, no party at all has any powers to enact legislation. In fact, because we have only a caretaker government, there is no government or opposition, there is a lacuna. Ministers don't have to answer PQs, respond to debates etc., the fact that this has happened is down to forbearance on the part of the caretaker government.

The caretaker government is doing its best in the absence of the normal powers of government to enact legislation. The onus now is on all parties to redouble their efforts to form a government and elect a Taoiseach so that normal decision-making can resume.

So you ask what can an opposition party do, the answer is there is no opposition party yet, what all parties have is a responsibility to engage in government formation, or stand aside and wait for government to form. Sinn Fein are choosing the latter, but that doesn't give them any role except as a bystander, fence-sitter, and ditch-hurler.

markodaly

Whelo79 wrote: »

So stop engaging that style of discussion. Go back a few posts and answer my question.

What question is this now?

smurgen

walshb wrote: »

Kind of pathetic points scoring this..

We have "more" deaths than you, so we are bad......?

Stupid type stuff as well....Kind of like Trump, but the opposite, as in him and his very odd and weird gloating....

Overall we could be in a whole lot worse a predicament had we not implemented our measures and stuck with them.

It's pathetic and goal scoring when we say the numbers aren't great but it's look at how great we are relative to others when we say the numbers are good. I've seen plenty of fine Gael supporters point out other countries numbers in this manner. E.g

https://twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1252336108144218113?s=19

Topgear on Dave

blanch152 wrote: »

So you ask what can an opposition party do, the answer is there is no opposition party yet, what all parties have is a responsibility to engage in government formation, or stand aside and wait for government to form. Sinn Fein are choosing the latter, but that doesn't give them any role except as a bystander, fence-sitter, and ditch-hurler.

Is it fair to say that most of our recently elected TDs seem to have decided that they want no part in running this country? :pac:

This dail is a clown show.

markodaly

smurgen wrote: »

It's pathetic and goal scoring when we say the numbers aren't great but it's look at how great we are relative to others when we say the numbers are good. I've seen plenty of fine Gael supporters point out other countries numbers in this manner. E.g

https://twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1252336108144218113?s=19

1) How do you know the person behind that tweet is a Fine Gael supporter?
2) How do you know the person behind the tweet is not a Fine Gael supporter?

smurgen

markodaly wrote: »

1) How do you know the person behind that tweet is a Fine Gael supporter?
2) How do you know the person behind the tweet is not a Fine Gael supporter?

Surrorts the party line at every stage. Minimising disasters amplifying success. Although I agree with your sentiment, these parts cheerleaders should have their membership posted on their profiles so we can discount their opinion.

Whelo79

blanch152 wrote: »

what all parties have is a responsibility to engage in government formation, or stand aside and wait for government to form. Sinn Fein are choosing the latter, but that doesn't give them any role except as a bystander, fence-sitter, and ditch-hurler.

So the title of this thread makes mention to them 'disappearing' yet you admit yourself all the can do is

A) "engage in government formation" (which they have tried to do and are still exploring possibilities), but I think all reasonably minded people would agree that it is currently impossible for SF to form a majority or even a minority government.

Or

"stand aside and wait for government to form"

When they choose B, you and many others accuse them of disappearing, like they have other options available to them. "Where are SF", "What are SF doing to help with the crisis" "I'm glad SF weren't in government, they've done nothing since the virus emerged". etc etc. Hypocrisy at its finest!

Whelo79

markodaly wrote: »

What question is this now?

Good man, play dumb!