Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Ballso

Ballso wrote: »

Always the victim, always someone else's fault

Their our people dying there...who is directing nhs??

The fcuking english,they arent fit to rule themselves,no mind part of our island

Edgware

Mortelaro wrote: »

Eamon Ryan on six one just now not ruling anything out

Of course he's not.
One day in power is worth a 100 in opposition.
We have enough ***** like the SDs sitting on the fence and looking forward to five years whinging. Joint leaders me arse!

blackwhite

Yurt! wrote: »

Apologies for linking to extra.ie (never heard of it before), but this seems to be a summation of the goings on, and quite frankly, I'd agree with Eoin O'Broin on this one again. He called the FF 100 year lease plan 'stupidity,' and on initial inspection, that's exactly what it appears to be. I'd like to see more detail, as I'll give a policy a chance if it approaches looking decent, but this....

The main two parties are so painfully ridiculously bad on housing it hurts the brain. They're in no position to call anyone economic illiterates if they entertain with proceeding with something like this.

https://extra.ie/2020/04/20/news/politics/fianna-fail-housing-plan

I really wouldn’t be holding that tweet up as anything for O’Broin to be proud of. James Lawless tore him apart on the figures and even after much prompting it took multiple attempts for O’Broin to realise where his own mistakes were.

https://twitter.com/lawlessj/status/1252277189279653894?s=21

McMurphy

Mortelaro wrote: »

Eamon Ryan on six one just now not ruling anything out

Wonder if that was before or after Leo waved this before his face like a donkey with a carrot.


https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1253002205029957632?s=19

Whelo79

blackwhite wrote: »

I really wouldn’t be holding that tweet up as anything for O’Broin to be proud of. James Lawless tore him apart on the figures and even after much prompting it took multiple attempts for O’Broin to realise where his own mistakes were.

https://twitter.com/lawlessj/status/1252277189279653894?s=21

Ah but sure let's not post the accurate figures.

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1252289281688731653?s=19

Yurt2

blackwhite wrote: »

I really wouldn’t be holding that tweet up as anything for O’Broin to be proud of. James Lawless tore him apart on the figures and even after much prompting it took multiple attempts for O’Broin to realise where his own mistakes were.

https://twitter.com/lawlessj/status/1252277189279653894?s=21

Wouldn't exactly call Lawless' defense of the hair-brained (that's bad bad bad even on the initial smell test) 'tore apart' when he got his sums wrong himself.

Maybe FF need to sit down and articulate a credible housing policy before declaring victory on Twitter with bad sums on their own policy.

blackwhite

Whelo79 wrote: »

Ah but sure let's not post the accurate figures.

https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1252289281688731653?s=19

The ones that took him at least attempts to finally land on - after making mistakes that a LC student would be ashamed of?

It took O'Broin over 24 hours to respond to Lawless initially, and the numbers he put up had one hell of an egregious error in them. It's fairly clear that some advisor in SF sent him the numbers, and he posted them either without understanding NPV enough to realise that they were massively flawed, or without looking at them at all
Anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that the present value of €1.8m isn't €792m.

He even admitted himself afterwards that he struggles with calculating NPV - which is a fairly fundamental thing that needs to be understood if you're looking at long term strategy. Yet somehow we've posters on here claiming that O'Broin's series of tweets demonstrate that it's the others who are economically illiterate??

His folks should be looking for a refund for those fees from Blackrock

Fann Linn

blackwhite wrote: »

The ones that took him at least attempts to finally land on - after making mistakes that a LC student would be ashamed of?

It took O'Broin over 24 hours to respond to Lawless initially, and the numbers he put up had one hell of an egregious error in them. It's fairly clear that some advisor in SF sent him the numbers, and he posted them either without understanding NPV enough to realise that they were massively flawed, or without looking at them at all
Anyone with half a brain should be able to tell that the present value of €1.8m isn't €792m.

He even admitted himself afterwards that he struggles with calculating NPV - which is a fairly fundamental thing that needs to be understood if you're looking at long term strategy. Yet somehow we've posters on here claiming that O'Broin's series of tweets demonstrate that it's the others who are economically illiterate??

His folks should be looking for a refund for those fees from Blackrock

Not as bad however as the Minister for Health with his diagnosis this morning.

blackwhite

Yurt! wrote: »

Wouldn't exactly call Lawless' defense of the hair-brained (that's bad bad bad even on the initial smell test) 'tore apart' when he got his sums wrong himself.

Maybe FF need to sit down and articulate a credible housing policy before declaring victory on Twitter with bad sums on their own policy.

O'Broin claiming he got his sums wrong doesn't make it so - he's used a different discount rate to whatever SF advisor pulled it together, and over a 100 year horizon small assumptions like that can result in big differences in the end number.

all about the mane

Yurt! wrote: »

Oh look, mane is back with his repetitive sexist garbage. How nice to hear the same scrot wheeled out over and over...

Ye must be raging ye are down to 4th choice now...after ‘winning’ the election

all about the mane

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Eamon ryan wont get this deal through the greens imo?


Theres no appitide in greens to be fall guys for ff/fg again no matter how much they rub his ego...took near on a decade to get back to where they are

Why throw it away for few handy pensions???,their front canditdate profile is quiet young and most have 20 plus years left in politics,would seem foolish to me,to go in with ff/fg from a long term view?

The shinnerz were lambasted by some in 2016 for not going in,deos anyone still think this is a mistake given their performance last election?

No reason the greens cant be largest party in state in few years,if they play their cards right imo

Plenty still haven’t forgiven the greens. I surprise how long the electorate’s memory had been in relation to them considering how short it is with most other things

Yurt2

all about the mane wrote: »

Ye must be raging ye are down to 4th choice now...after ‘winning’ the election

You're a nasty sexist mane. That's the only point to be made here. Politics doesn't even come into it.

all about the mane

Yurt! wrote: »

You're a nasty sexist mane. That's the only point to be made here. Politics doesn't even come into it.

Whatever makes you feel better

James Brown

Edgware wrote: »

Of course he's not.
One day in power is worth a 100 in opposition.
We have enough ***** like the SDs sitting on the fence and looking forward to five years whinging. Joint leaders me arse!

The only party leader to come out and say he relished going into opposition, and to much applause on these boards, was Varadkar. So give over.

Leo offering the Greens the power seat is like a pat on the head for them and knee in the liathróidí for MM.

Yurt2

all about the mane wrote: »

Whatever makes you feel better

Try to keep the quality of your posts up would you? You spent an inordinate amount of time slating a woman with outright sexist terms and having a cut at her when she had covid19.


You're low-quality and a tremendous bore. This isn't about politics, it's about class, and you have none of it.

all about the mane

Yurt! wrote: »

Try to keep the quality of your posts up would you? You spent an inordinate amount of time slating a woman with outright sexist terms and having a cut at her when she had covid19.


You're low-quality and a tremendous bore.

Damn right I’ve slated her. She has made an absolute shambles of things since the election. And her with notions of Taoiseach. Hilarious.

blanch152

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I have never in my life voted for SF before this election and I gave them my #2 in my constituency, where I normally put all four major parties at the very bottom of my ballot paper. I know many, many, many people my age (mid twenties to thirty) who gave them a high or first preference after never being interested in voting for them before this year.

What changed since 2016? Rents went through the f*cking roof, peoples quality of life was utterly decimated from it compared with what people had become accustomed to, and Fine Gael's complete and utter pr!ck of a housing minister was insufferably smug about it, suggesting that people should be happy to be paying far more for far, far sh!ttier living conditions (specifically, describing the BARTA sh!te for €1,400 a month as a "boutique hotel" where you could rent a decent self contained studio for half that only a few years previous) while simultaneously and very publicly blocking the construction of proper social housing (the O'Devaney development was probably the biggest flashpoint among people in my social circle, at least from my own anecdotal observations).

Here's the thing: That issue is not going away unless someone actually does something about it. Fine Gael are ideologically opposed to doing what needs to be done. Fianna Fail are, in their current iteration, ideologically opposed to doing what needs to be done. Both parties are directly responsible in different ways for the crisis we have in housing. The generation of voters who have experienced and are experiencing this clusterf*ck over the last two years are not going anywhere. FFG are not going to solve the problem, ergo this cohort of voters is never going to vote for them. And even if they do solve it, they will not be forgiven for the "let them eat cake" attitude they displayed, particularly throughout 2019 (I'm talking specifically about their attitude and the smugness with which they happily condemned a whole generation to a sh!t quality of life and acted as if that was something we should just learn to live with).

The reason SF surged between their disastrous LE performance and their incredible GE performance is because the crisis boiled over during the summer of 2019. So many people I know who had been renting since the middle of this decade were evicted for one reason or another and returned after just a few short years to a rental market which expected them to pay orders of magnitude more than they had being paying for orders of magnitude sh!ttier accommodation. And FG - and their cheerleaders - refused to acknowledge that this was an actual problem. I can point to countless posts from this very forum in which people took the "tough, that's life, live with it" attitude despite the very obvious and very universal paradigm that moving from college education and part time work to full time employment is supposed to bring an increase in living standards, and certainly not a massive downgrade as has happened with everyone who lost their rental accommodation in the last year and has had to settle for something orders of magnitude less comfortable for a ridiculously higher price.

Those people will not vote for FFG. Even if FFG solve the problem, personally I believe that people have been so screwed and hurt by their policies and their smug attitude to others' suffering that forgiveness just won't be a thing. Those I know who went through this situation feel a visceral hatred towards Fine Gael which in all honesty is more intense than the anger they felt at FF for destroying their prospects just as they were getting ready to leave secondary school in and around 2008. You don't get those people back on your side after treating them the way this generation has been treated by FG.

Now, maybe you're right in that the specific vote for Sinn Fein is a transient thing. Perhaps it is. But it's not going back to FFG or their cheerleaders Labour and the Greens. If this generation's faith in SF collapses, their votes will go to SocDems, PBP, independents, and probably a new left wing party which will almost inevitably form in order to capitalise on any such SF collapse.

Bottom line is, those voters will not go back to the civil war parties. Not after being wronged by both of them in such a deeply fundamental way.

More fools those who fell for the SF palaver.

The ones blocking social housing development were the SF-led councils. Thankfully last year's local elections rid us of that scourge.

Yurt2

all about the mane wrote: »

Damn right I’ve slated her. She has made an absolute shambles of things since the election. And her with notions of Taoiseach. Hilarious.

Low-quality. Sexist. Boring.

blanch152

markodaly wrote: »

You, see the difference between you and I?

I will raise those figures once and move on, while you, will spend all day arguing and try and score cheap points, as evidenced by your last post.

The figures in the North are what they are, like in the South. Now I have no idea if SF/DUP are playing a blinder or not. But perhaps their politicians should realise that they are actually in government somewhere and their electorate are looking to them for leadership.

As I said, less twitter more governing.

There was a shocking article in the Irish Times about how badly the North have handled the Covid-19 crisis compared to the South.

I suppose they are making political capital out of peoples' deaths too.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/coronavirus-ireland-is-one-island-with-two-very-different-death-rates-1.4234353

"The graphs show death rates per million of population for the North and the Republic and also hospital-based deaths. In both examples the Republic’s death rate is two-thirds that in the North."

SF didn't step up to the plate, North or South.

Those are the facts, no point in arguing with them, I will leave it there. I am sure that the usual suspects will spend 20 posts deflecting, diverting and trying to kneecap the messenger.

Galwayguy35

Deleted User wrote: »

Eamon ryan wont get this deal through the greens imo?


Theres no appitide in greens to be fall guys for ff/fg again no matter how much they rub his ego...took near on a decade to get back to where they are

Why throw it away for few handy pensions???,their front canditdate profile is quiet young and most have 20 plus years left in politics,would seem foolish to me,to go in with ff/fg from a long term view?

The shinnerz were lambasted by some in 2016 for not going in,deos anyone still think this is a mistake given their performance last election?

No reason the greens cant be largest party in state in few years,if they play their cards right imo

The Greens are hated outside urban areas and west of the Shannon, there's no way in hell they could ever be the largest party in the state.

Shefwedfan

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The Greens are hated outside urban areas and west of the Shannon, there's no way in hell they could ever be the largest party in the state.

Why??

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

Eamon ryan wont get this deal through the greens imo?


Theres no appitide in greens to be fall guys for ff/fg again no matter how much they rub his ego...took near on a decade to get back to where they are

Why throw it away for few handy pensions???,their front canditdate profile is quiet young and most have 20 plus years left in politics,would seem foolish to me,to go in with ff/fg from a long term view?

The shinnerz were lambasted by some in 2016 for not going in,deos anyone still think this is a mistake given their performance last election?

No reason the greens cant be largest party in state in few years,if they play their cards right imo

The issue is that they need a two-thirds majority of members to support it.

However, have no doubt about it, the Greens at senior level would jump at the chance to be in Government, they want to change things and do it now. They are not prepared to wait. They would actually be happy to make permanent changes to the way things are done and then disappear. That makes them different from other political parties.

As for the Shinners, it all depends on whether you are interested in power for powers sake or whether you want to get things done. SF aren't really interested in change, they are only interested in power for powers sake, so that they can push the united Ireland agenda. They will support anti-vaxxers, 5G weirdos and whatever other strange cause just to get into power, not because they actually believe in them.

Galwayguy35

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The Greens are hated outside urban areas and west of the Shannon, there's no way in hell they could ever be the largest party in the state.

Shinners once used poll at 1 to 2% (took local SF man 3 elections to get in,last election ge returned with twice the quota)...now shinnerz are largest party for 1st pref under 65



Anything is possible in politics,if you build a platform,good policies and win people around.......though for greens to push on,they likely need to oust eamonn lettuce ryan

all about the mane

That clown o’Reilly accusing the government of kite flying.

Galwayguy35

Deleted User wrote: »

Shinners once used poll at 1 to 2% (took local SF man 3 elections to get in,last election ge returned with twice the quota)...now shinnerz are largest party for 1st pref under 65



Anything is possible in politics,if you build a platform,good policies and win people around.......though for greens to push on,they likely need to oust eamonn lettuce ryan

SF policies are always going top be popular with voters and a lot of their core vote aren't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer so telling them they shouldn't have to pay for anything will always be a vote catcher.

The Greens on the other hand want to bring in policies that are very unpolular in rural areas.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

The issue is that they need a two-thirds majority of members to support it.

However, have no doubt about it, the Greens at senior level would jump at the chance to be in Government, they want to change things and do it now. They are not prepared to wait. They would actually be happy to make permanent changes to the way things are done and then disappear. That makes them different from other political parties.

As for the Shinners, it all depends on whether you are interested in power for powers sake or whether you want to get things done. SF aren't really interested in change, they are only interested in power for powers sake, so that they can push the united Ireland agenda. They will support anti-vaxxers, 5G weirdos and whatever other strange cause just to get into power, not because they actually believe in them.

I really enjoy your deranged rants about shinnerz ....you dont even attempt to base it in reality anymore....future for you in satire mate

Seriously though The greens imo havnt a hope of getting 2/3 parlimentry support to go in......why should younger greens scrafice their political future for a pension for eamon ryan??

Theres no reason a green party cant lead and be biggest party in government inside a generation...they need to decide go for pensions and wipeout (like labour) or try win more people around to their view (like shinnerz)


Ff/fg have no interest in implenting a green agenda (indeed average fg people i know openly sneer at it)

Galwayguy35

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

SF policies are always going top be popular with voters and a lot of their core vote aren't exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer so telling them they shouldn't have to pay for anything will always be a vote catcher.

The Greens on the other hand want to bring in policies that are very unpolular in rural areas.

Boys yous are gonna drop the notion shinnerz are wasters,there isnt enough votes there to give em numbers they are getting??

I would like to see a manifesto drawn up by new generation greens,before id dismiss em as an option....but noway are they going anywhere under ryan

aido79

McMurphy wrote: »

Here.



Before we go around the houses trying to claim Leo didn't specifically say "criticism/critical of or criticise""

Tony Holohan said "he was not comfortable with the idea of a company chartering a flight to bring in staff"

I think we can all agree that he's referring to Keeling's?

Leo said. he “shares the discomfort expressed” by Dr Holohan.

I think that's safe to say he wasn't too impressed with their shenanigans, you might even say he was critical.

Seriously lads.

Fair enough. He criticised it. How does that amount to populism?

Galwayguy35

Deleted User wrote: »

Boys yous are gonna drop the notion shinnerz are wasters,there isnt enough votes there to give em numbers they are getting??

I would like to see a manifesto drawn up by new generation greens,before id dismiss em as an option....but noway are they going anywhere under ryan

I never said they didn't have capable politicans in the party, Pearse Doherty and ML herself would be the best example of this.

But the same tired old story they peddle of tax the rich for everything and the spending and house builds they were promising at the last election was off the wall.

Galwayguy35

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I never said they didn't have capable politicans in the party, Pearse Doherty and ML herself would be the best example of this.

But the same tired old story they peddle of tax the rich for everything and the spending and house builds they were promising at the last election was off the wall.

It really wasnt,they proposed a tax increase of 4 billion a year and 22 billion over 5 years in expenses??

Highly optimistic,yes,but not off the wall and imo reasonably prudent given the performance of econmy at the time and most realistic way of tackling issues targeted

Like FF literally promised to give away hundreds of millions in ssia type schemes and would this have lead to a repeat of worse of excesses if the boom??,(which i intend to take advantage of,if/when they bring it in...pure hypocrite,but fcuk it)