Is it just me or have SF vanished?

tikkahunter

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/sinn-fein-td-apologises-after-falsely-claiming-17-people-died-in-one-nursing-home-39149665.html

hatrickpatrick

blanch152 wrote: »

More fools those who fell for the SF palaver.

The ones blocking social housing development were the SF-led councils. Thankfully last year's local elections rid us of that scourge.

Bullsh!t. Fine Gael's department of housing refused to fund any social housing development which didn't involve selloffs to developers, regardless of what councillors voted for. That's why the O'Devaney Gardens regeneration has been gridlocked for the last five years, as you'd know if you'd actually followed the story. Eoghan Murphy objected to the proportion of affordable housing in the development and wanted more of it to involve f*cking peoples' lives up with the obscene rents on the private market instead.

aido79

tikkahunter wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/sinn-fein-td-apologises-after-falsely-claiming-17-people-died-in-one-nursing-home-39149665.html

The consultant led team would be better off investigating how many people he was responsible for killing.

hatrickpatrick

markodaly wrote: »

That's lovely of course, but again, you are speculating, the fact is you don't know if your prediction will be the actual outcome.

Of course I'm speculating, but I'd bet my life savings on it with little hesitation. The utter hatred for FFG among the vast majority of people I know from my own generation, spanning pretty much the whole spectrum of socioeconomic classes, speaks for itself. The fact that pretty much the entirety of social media and the actual results of the last election bear that out are why I'm confident these aren't mere guesses on my part.

It may be strong now, but those younger people you harp on about, they will get jobs, buy a property, and become part of the establishment so to speak. The older you get, the more conservative you become. It's as true as night becomes day.

They won't buy property unless someone solves the affordability situation, that's literally the whole point of everything we're arguing about here. The ladder has been pulled up so that this generation is unable to get on it and FFG are directly responsible for that.

Votes will therefore go back to FF/FG, they will not all just move to a new party.

See above. You're making the idiotic assumption that FFG will solve the housing unaffordability crisis. The reason they're being destroyed in elections isn't because they can't, it's because they won't. They refuse to. They don't care about it.

Don't you think this clouds your judgement then? Its a very small sample size.

That would be a fair comment if the results of the election, and the demographic breakdown of those results, weren't perfectly in line with what I've been saying.

Yes, younger voters who may not have as much to lose. Now though, they probably have lost their jobs and may have a different mindset?
Whatever you think about FG, they did a good job in creating policies that created lots and lots of jobs.

And because FFG refuse to tackle housing or the overall spiralling cost of living, having a well paying job doesn't do jack sh!t for one's quality of life. That's literally exactly what I've been saying for this entire thread - people were able to afford better living standards on part time incomes five years ago than they can on full time incomes, because the cost of living and housing have risen by orders of magnitude faster than average incomes, and Fine Gael seem to be perfectly happy with this - smugly and bizarrely cheerleading falling living standards as "progress". Unless that changes, they will not be able to win over this generation.

Easy to forget that in good times, now though with unemployment at 22% it will focus minds, a lot!

See above. The cost of living is too high regardless. And FFG refuse to tackle it. Unless they do, people who have been voting against them will not be changing their minds.

Why? FF more than doubled it seats in GE 2016 after the debacle of GE 2011.
You think after 9 years of FG in power, a few years away from the hot seat, FG won't come storming back? They will just disappear into nothing?

FF too?

Again, if the cost of housing and the cost of living aren't tackled, we are headed for very profound changes to our political climate. The shoots of that can already be seen with the latest GE results.

I can easily see FG storming back after an SF led left-wing government failing, that will ultimately disappoint as they will over-promise (its in their nature).

Again, a 25-year-old voter who has just graduated is a very different beast to a 45-year-old taxpayer voter and property owner.

You're acting like the cost of living crisis is temporary. It could be, but it won't be under FF or FG, because they have categorically refused to do anything about it except fiddle while Rome burns.

Honestly I don't understand what you're not getting here. Your entire argument is built around the assumption that people are going to escape from the stagflation trap. They won't unless government policy tackles that stagflation, and FFG are ideologically opposed to prioritising quality of life above macroeconomics.

blanch152

tikkahunter wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/sinn-fein-td-apologises-after-falsely-claiming-17-people-died-in-one-nursing-home-39149665.html

Just waiting for Murphy and Bowie to drop in and criticise Dessie Ellis for making political capital out of people’s deaths, won’t be holding my breath now.

He then had to retract, having got the numbers wrong.

At least the days of having to check under your car in the morning if you criticised the bold Dessie are gone now.

McMurphy wrote: »

Not so for the victims of the troubles though, no need for me to link back to my post outling how you have had 100s of posts using the deaths of others to point score for years now - it's there for all see - and they will return soon after this pandemic passes, as sure as night follows day.



You quoting the wrong poster?

Or did mark buy a dog that's not yet up to speed on who its supposed to be barking at?

Bowie wrote: »

You did the very thing you castigated others for allegedly doing. That's it simply.
Now you say you do, but don'y harp on it and in the same post re-visit it

markodaly

Yurt! wrote: »

Were you not paying attention to what was going on the past couple of years?

Yes, arguably more closely than you.

Deluded. The combined share of FF/FG votes has plummeted like property ownership rates over the last few elections. This is a permanent change in the Irish political landscape, and the 'big two' created it.

This is because one of them have been in government.

If or when they are both in opposition, we will see their support increase again.
Now I am not at all thinking that we are going to go back to the 1970's in terms of their support, but if people think these parties are going to disappear, they will be in for long disappointment.

45 year old property owners don't magic into existence like some law of nature. The conditions for affordable home ownership need to be there.

And people have still being buying property over the past few years...

The algorithm has changed and quite frankly the traditional big two parties are without a map. In any case, the housing situation, as massive a failure as it is, is just one front.

Covid-19 will focus minds.
Parties like SF are great playthings when times are good, when times are harder, voters will think hard about jobs and the economy.

markodaly

all about the mane wrote: »

That clown o’Reilly accusing the government of kite flying.

Dear SF HQ

If you want to progress in national politics, take Louise O'Reilly and lock her in a room, out of the public eye.

OK.Thanks.Bye

markodaly

tikkahunter wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/sinn-fein-td-apologises-after-falsely-claiming-17-people-died-in-one-nursing-home-39149665.html

A Sinn Fein source said: “Dessie just got his facts wrong.”

It is understood Mr Ellis based his statement on information he had received locally in his constituency.

They are a ****ing joke.

Peddlers of fear and fake news.

markodaly

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Of course I'm speculating, but I'd bet my life savings on it with little hesitation. The utter hatred for FFG among the vast majority of people I know from my own generation, spanning pretty much the whole spectrum of socioeconomic classes, speaks for itself. The fact that pretty much the entirety of social media and the actual results of the last election bear that out are why I'm confident these aren't mere guesses on my part.

Ah now? Come off it. We are basing it off social media now? Sure, why not go the whole hog and state 5G is a mind control trick or perhaps some Gemma o'Doherty speil should be taken seriously. Maybe the great replacement theory as well....
Social media is poison and no one, and I mean no one should base anything of worth or note of it.

Look, I get it. Many think FG and FF failed them and I certainly have my reservations about many of the things FG did the past few years. However, time moves on and when these same voters see the alternatives, that hatred you speak off will soften. Look at the Greens, nowhere in 2011, now kingmakers not even 10 years later.

They won't buy property unless someone solves the affordability situation, that's literally the whole point of everything we're arguing about here. The ladder has been pulled up so that this generation is unable to get on it and FFG are directly responsible for that.

Erm, Covid-19 has kinda done that for us.
Property prices will fall over the next few years. The Banks have already decreased the appraisals for the LTV ratio by 10%.
What is more, this election seems to have stirred something in both FF and FG. After all they are proposing a constitutional amendment to tackle land prices.

See above. You're making the idiotic assumption that FFG will solve the housing unaffordability crisis. The reason they're being destroyed in elections isn't because they can't, it's because they won't. They refuse to. They don't care about it.

You are very very VERY naive. Housing is an issue in every western nation. David McWilliams did a very interesting talk about this recently that explains this in great detail and gives the reasons to why this is. We think that the issue with housing is an Irish one, and that everyone else has housing utopia. Wrong.
The issue is far far more complicated than you seem to imagine. Simple soapbox slogans won't and can't solve housing issues.

Put it this way, if it were that simple for either FF or FG to fix it, why won't they?
It is in their pure self-interest to fix this problem, given that they are after all political parties who want power and vote. So, why wont they fix it? Because, as you say, they don't want to? Can't be arsed? Too busy playing golf or playing spoons down the pub?

Is that your actual argument?

Just look at the North, where housing is in the remit of Stormont. Homelessness there is much higher than in the South.

As I said your angry is clouding your judgment.

That would be a fair comment if the results of the election, and the demographic breakdown of those results, weren't perfectly in line with what I've been saying.

Yes, one election... it does not mean that every election will follow the same pattern.
Take the last poll, FG are back as the most popular party. Nothing is consistent.

And because FFG refuse to tackle housing or the overall spiralling cost of living, having a well paying job doesn't do jack sh!t for one's quality of life. That's literally exactly what I've been saying for this entire thread - people were able to afford better living standards on part time incomes five years ago than they can on full time incomes, because the cost of living and housing have risen by orders of magnitude faster than average incomes, and Fine Gael seem to be perfectly happy with this - smugly and bizarrely cheerleading falling living standards as "progress". Unless that changes, they will not be able to win over this generation.

Again, see my comments from before.
And your comment re part-time income vs full-time income is utterly wrong. CSO data will correct you there.

See above. The cost of living is too high regardless. And FFG refuse to tackle it. Unless they do, people who have been voting against them will not be changing their minds.

I somewhat agree regarding the cost of living in Ireland, that it's high.

In summary, there are various reasons for this, some self-inflicted, others we cannot control. We are after all a small market of 5 million people and there will be higher costs to doing business here than say the UK, with its 65 million population.

I do agree that things like insurance costs, childcare costs, and housing costs need radical fundamental reform.

However, this is Ireland and if we try and tackle one of them, people will give out because that is what we do best.

Take the issue of the Bulgarians coming over to work. People give out about that, even though only 27 Irish people applied for 900 positions. Then the same people state that they should pay them more, even though Ireland has one of the highest minimum wages in the EU. Grand, pay them more, but all this does really raise the cost of food in Ireland... so there goes the cost of living up again...
Can't win, dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

Again, if the cost of housing and the cost of living aren't tackled, we are headed for very profound changes to our political climate. The shoots of that can already be seen with the latest GE results.

Perhaps, but then again, look at SF's record. Its dire. Just because you dont vote for FF and FG there is an automatic solving of the problem. In fact that is the reason why I believe people will go back to FF and FG over time, because the soundbites and soapboxes that the Irish left live off won't build a single house. There will be a time that those chickens come home to roost.

You're acting like the cost of living crisis is temporary. It could be, but it won't be under FF or FG, because they have categorically refused to do anything about it except fiddle while Rome burns.

Honestly I don't understand what you're not getting here. Your entire argument is built around the assumption that people are going to escape from the stagflation trap. They won't unless government policy tackles that stagflation, and FFG are ideologically opposed to prioritising quality of life above macroeconomics.

I have already addressed this, see my previous comments.

Not voting for FF or FG is not a magical miracle cure. The Irish Left have always promised all and sundry, in fact they promise too much. Labour in 2011 being the classic example. That is why most people dont trust them.

You dont know what the term Stagflation means because if you did, you would not use it here in the Irish Context.

all about the mane

markodaly wrote: »

They are a ****ing joke.

Peddlers of fear and fake news.

Ellis is like some of the clowns on here. Wishing that more people were dead. Then again it’s part of that shower’s history.

tikkahunter

all about the mane wrote: »

Ellis is like some of the clowns on here. Wishing that more people were dead. Then again it’s part of that shower’s history.

Growing up in that area in the 80's i know full well what him and his associates are like and get up to . The younger generation that have been conned into voting for SF have no idea .

all about the mane

tikkahunter wrote: »

Growing up in that area in the 80's i know full well what him and his associates are like and get up to . The younger generation that have been conned into voting for SF have no idea .

Ellis is a particular type of scumbag. The younger generation will probably have to see the clowns in power before they realise what they are really like

Bishop of hope

tikkahunter wrote: »

Growing up in that area in the 80's i know full well what him and his associates are like and get up to . The younger generation that have been conned into voting for SF have no idea .

Having no idea is the "minister" for health saying there are 18 other covids. This is the minister in charge, he is on top of his brief isn't he.

tikkahunter

tikkahunter wrote: »

Growing up in that area in the 80's i know full well what him and his associates are like and get up to . The younger generation that have been conned into voting for SF have no idea .

The fact they are largest party all age groups under 65 is to be ignored??


We've had 2 wasted booms,everytime something geos economically wrong ff/fg claim it a once in a century event....how come we have 2 of these in last 12 years,wheter it good or bad,im in favour of change anyway,this cant continue


Shinnerz seem best placed of rest in the dail anyway

thomasdylan

Deleted User wrote: »

The fact they are largest party all age groups under 65 is to be ignored??


We've had 2 wasted booms,everytime something geos economically wrong ff/fg claim it a once in a century event....how come we have 2 of these in last 12 years,wheter it good or bad,im in favour of change anyway,this cant continue


Shinnerz seem best placed of rest in the dail anyway

Are you asking how come coronavirus happened? It's going to be the biggest pandemic since 1919 so it probably is a once in a century event.

thomasdylan

thomasdylan wrote: »

Are you asking how come coronavirus happened? It's going to be the biggest pandemic since 1919 so it probably is a once in a century event.

Everytime something goes wrong,its always a once in a century event though??

Banks go broke,once in a century,covid,once in a century.....this has happened twice in little over a decade??


All the while childcare workers cant afford to send their own kids to childcare,things badly need changing,

spend next decade trying to fix this particular hole caused by covid only for another once in century event to happen again....ive been fooled enough in my life by these 2


This is 3rd corona outbreak this century (albeit most deadly in terms of numbers,sars had higher fatlity %)

Ultimanemo

Deleted User wrote: »

She didnt have a head cold?
She had coronavirus (quite bad too,developed pluericy)....its amazing your critism.of people for self isolating

Now we can say Boris Johnson and Mary Lou have something in comon

tikkahunter

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Having no idea is the "minister" for health saying there are 18 other covids. This is the minister in charge, he is on top of his brief isn't he.

Why are you twisting what i said to have an attack on FG, I am saying the younger voters that voted for SF have no idea what went on and still goes on in that party.

tikkahunter

Deleted User wrote: »

The fact they are largest party all age groups under 65 is to be ignored??


We've had 2 wasted booms,everytime something geos economically wrong ff/fg claim it a once in a century event....how come we have 2 of these in last 12 years,wheter it good or bad,im in favour of change anyway,this cant continue


Shinnerz seem best placed of rest in the dail anyway

We were in full employment before this . That is noting to be sniffed at .

tikkahunter

Ultimanemo wrote: »

Now we can say Boris Johnson and Mary Lou have something in comon

Well both come from a privileged background and attended top colleges in their respected countries and try to fool the working class into thinking they are one of them so a lot more in common than you think.

tikkahunter

tikkahunter wrote: »

We were in full employment before this . That is noting to be sniffed at .

Whats the point though,whole thing falls apart every decade or so??

Ive seen enough once in a century crisis to do me a lifetime,and im nowhere near 100


Whats point of having full employment of people cant afford to live or make a life here,large numbers of polish, and lower paid left due to high rents and sh1t wages,some over a decade living here......they should be putting down roots,starting families (some had),buying houses etc,we cant provide a future for lower paid workers here

The whole econmic recovery last time was a fraud,great on paper,but not so great to those who need it most.....when you have people work in childcare,who cant afford to put their own kids in childcare,this is perhaps the most glaring example of inequality that passes as econmic succes that sickens me

Edgware

No one said everything was perfect but if people actually believe that the magic money tree policies of S.F. and company will work then they deserve everything they get.

Edgware

Edgware wrote: »

No one said everything was perfect but if people actually believe that the magic money tree policies of S.F. and company will work then they deserve everything they get.

I think nothing will change,if people pertually vote ff/fg....shinnerz are best placed of the rest and now have enough of a mandate to force ff/fg to act properly otherwise they risk being fcuked out


They have finally broke the stranglehold ff/fg have on the dail and can contest for seats virtually anywhere in state with them,be that good or bad is entirely of one's own worldview i guess

aido79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Whats the point though,whole thing falls apart every decade or so??

Ive seen enough once in a century crisis to do me a lifetime,and im nowhere near 100


Whats point of having full employment of people cant afford to live or make a life here,large numbers of polish, and lower paid left due to high rents and sh1t wages,some over a decade living here......they should be putting down roots,starting families (some had),buying houses etc,we cant provide a future for lower paid workers here

The whole econmic recovery last time was a fraud,great on paper,but not so great to those who need it most.....when you have people work in childcare,who cant afford to put their own kids in childcare,this is perhaps the most glaring example of inequality that passes as econmic succes that sickens me

Maybe you should move somewhere where they don't have global financial crises and global pandemics?

aido79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think nothing will change,if people pertually vote ff/fg....shinnerz are best placed of the rest and now have enough of a mandate to force ff/fg to act properly otherwise they risk being fcuked out


They have finally broke the stranglehold ff/fg have on the dail and can contest for seats virtually anywhere in state with them,be that good or bad is entirely of one's own worldview i guess

Force ff/fg to act properly? Are we at last agreeing that Sinn Fein's place is in opposition?

Sinn Fein have the same number of seats Labour had in 2011. Did they break the stranglehold of ff/fg?

aido79

aido79 wrote: »

Force ff/fg to act properly? Are we at last agreeing that Sinn Fein's place is in opposition?

Sinn Fein have the same number of seats Labour had in 2011. Did they break the stranglehold of ff/fg?

Aye,and look at labour now??


Labour are fg-lite nowadays.....tbh if shinnerz cant get numbers to.form a government,then its clearly opposition for em....this is primary school stuff



But speaking of labour and using 1 of reasons to dismiss the shinnerz,what ever became of the offial IRA guns,afaik they never disbanded nor decommissioned???

Hamsterchops

Wonder will old Mary Lou be back in the chamber today ventilating her anger towards the government, or is she still in decontamination mode?

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

We've had 2 wasted booms,everytime something geos economically wrong ff/fg claim it a once in a century event....how come we have 2 of these in last 12 years,wheter it good or bad,im in favour of change anyway,this cant continue

So, tell us. How is Covid-19 the fault of FG or FF...
Go on.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

spend next decade trying to fix this particular hole caused by covid only for another once in century event to happen again....ive been fooled enough in my life by these 2

So, Covid-19 is the fault of FF and FG....
Hmm :rolleyes:

markodaly

aido79 wrote: »

Maybe you should move somewhere where they don't have global financial crises and global pandemics?

Or elect people who can stop global pandemics and a global financial crisis by angry tweets and some semtex.
NI is Covid-19 free don't you know...