Is it just me or have SF vanished?

blanch152

Shefwedfan wrote: »

These threads are interesting. If you see the FF and FG supporters they can see the good and bad in the party. Have a conversation

Then you have SF, everything is wonderful. They are incredible. MLM is brill.

But a simple question like what have SF done in 30 years in the South which has helped Irish people and not a single answer. The bit of power they have is in the North and it is a disaster, they even shut down the government for 3 years. Anyone asks about it and it was XYZ fault.

Like honestly how can anyone have such a blinded view of SF? why do people think they are actually going to do anything? even look at their politicians, the newest and greatest who are supposed to have no links to the bad SF. We have "up da ra" boyo who they wouldn't even condemn at any level. Then you have the charity thief who is too busy on facebook abusing people to actually help. Like it really it a rabble.

Yet you look on here, well it is just baffling to me.

To be honest, you could accuse me of having a blinded view of SF as well. I can't think of a single thing that they have done over the last 40 years which has improved people's lives. Even the stopping of killing people was down to the IRA.

It is an interesting point of debate that SF attract such polarising views. Why do they attract such fanatical devotion and why are they hated so intensely? There is no moderation of views.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

To be honest, you could accuse me of having a blinded view of SF as well. I can't think of a single thing that they have done over the last 40 years which has improved people's lives. Even the stopping of killing people was down to the IRA.

It is an interesting point of debate that SF attract such polarising views. Why do they attract such fanatical devotion and why are they hated so intensely? There is no moderation of views.

If I may accuse you of being so blinded by your hatred for all things SF that you might miss a very obvious reality that many of SF's votes came from people with no fanatical devotion toward SF and were likely former FF/FG voters and might likely be again at some point.
The idea that the only votes SF get are from fanatics or any due criticism of FG can only come from such fanatics, is for you to try work out in your own mind because it's most likely not reality.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

These threads are interesting. If you see the FF and FG supporters they can see the good and bad in the party. Have a conversation

Then you have SF, everything is wonderful. They are incredible. MLM is brill.

But a simple question like what have SF done in 30 years in the South which has helped Irish people and not a single answer. The bit of power they have is in the North and it is a disaster, they even shut down the government for 3 years. Anyone asks about it and it was XYZ fault.

Like honestly how can anyone have such a blinded view of SF? why do people think they are actually going to do anything? even look at their politicians, the newest and greatest who are supposed to have no links to the bad SF. We have "up da ra" boyo who they wouldn't even condemn at any level. Then you have the charity thief who is too busy on facebook abusing people to actually help. Like it really it a rabble.

Yet you look on here, well it is just baffling to me.

If you were being genuine and paid attention to your own posts you'd see the rampant hypocrisy in your comments above. You often drop into a discussion with a jaded or bad taste one liner.

Odhinn

blanch152 wrote: »

To be honest, you could accuse me of having a blinded view of SF as well..

No!!!!!!!!!!!

Shefwedfan

blanch152 wrote: »

To be honest, you could accuse me of having a blinded view of SF as well. I can't think of a single thing that they have done over the last 40 years which has improved people's lives. Even the stopping of killing people was down to the IRA.

It is an interesting point of debate that SF attract such polarising views. Why do they attract such fanatical devotion and why are they hated so intensely? There is no moderation of views.

I did ask the question to see if it was just me who couldn't come up with a single good thing they have done. Not a single answer yet.



I wouldn't say I hate SF either, I see MLM is a good politician. I felt her interview on the LLS was good till the "up da Ra" question which she was let down with. They have a couple of good politician but not many. I have said that since day 1 on any of these threads. But that is lost in between the accusation of Finbot and now FF something or other.


I will wait and see if the 30 year question get answers, I suspect it wont and as usual the regulars will try and lose it in the middle of accusations etc

Balmed Out

blanch152 wrote: »

It is an interesting point of debate that SF attract such polarising views. Why do they attract such fanatical devotion and why are they hated so intensely? There is no moderation of views.

I think that their local councillors have a tradition of being very hard working and very visible particularly in working class areas. On the other hand a lot of people would say their national policies are poorly thought out, naive or even a tad fairy tailish.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I did ask the question to see if it was just me who couldn't come up with a single good thing they have done. Not a single answer yet.



I wouldn't say I hate SF either, I see MLM is a good politician. I felt her interview on the LLS was good till the "up da Ra" question which she was let down with. They have a couple of good politician but not many. I have said that since day 1 on any of these threads. But that is lost in between the accusation of Finbot and now FF something or other.


I will wait and see if the 30 year question get answers, I suspect it wont and as usual the regulars will try and lose it in the middle of accusations etc

As much if not more than every other opposition party/TD. Called out cronyism and incompetence. Why even FG's Leo would relish such an opportunity for the good of the country. The opposition play an important roll.
As for SF specifically it's hard to say. They would have played a roll in every failed policy FF/FG stood down. Every positive for the country they supported and having connections with the north and the IRA were likely invaluable in obtaining peace. If you are looking for policies they implemented you'd likely need look at local level.
I suspect this is just another of your non-attack attacks on SF and you've no interest in any response, but there it is anyway.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

As much if not more than every other opposition party/TD. Called out cronyism and incompetence. Why even FG's Leo would relish such an opportunity for the good of the country. The opposition play an important roll.
As for SF specifically it's hard to say. They would have played a roll in every failed policy FF/FG stood down. Every positive for the country they supported and having connections with the north and the IRA were likely invaluable in obtaining peace. If you are looking for policies they implemented you'd likely need look at local level.
I suspect this is just another of your non-attack attacks on SF and you've no interest in any response, but there it is anyway.

How is it an attack? Name one thing SF have done for Irish people in 30 years, it’s a fairly simple question

Sitting in the opposition is not helping anyone...

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How is it an attack? Name one thing SF have done for Irish people in 30 years, it’s a fairly simple question

Sitting in the opposition is not helping anyone...

You said you think MLMD is a good politician, which isn't believable quite frankly based on your posts. Suggesting MLMD might have pretended she had Covid for a PR stunt for example. And..

Sitting in the opposition is not helping anyone

What do you mean by this? The opposition play a vital role in democratic politics unless you prefer an echo chamber.

Odhinn

Shefwedfan wrote: »

.........
Sitting in the opposition is not helping anyone...

Regardless of whether they are or not, they aren't sitting in opposition by choice, if you might recall. FF and FG have refused to do business with them.

gormdubhgorm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How is it an attack? Name one thing SF have done for Irish people in 30 years, it’s a fairly simple question

They decided to stop shooting army, policemen, and blowing civilians up.

--

The next stage is too move away from the glorification of such actions so that would be two things.
The third stage would be actual condemnation of any deaths caused by any branch of republicanism. And not couch it in terms of a an 'incorrect strategy'

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

Regardless of whether they are or not, they aren't sitting in opposition by choice, if you might recall. FF and FG have refused to do business with them.

And why is that I wonder? It was also clearly stated by FG/FF/Labour pre election that would not form a goverment with SF. Combined that is about twice as much as the popular vote than SF has.
Ergo FG/FF/Labour have the mandate not to form a government with SF. Or as some in SF would call it a 'mondate'.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They decided to stop shooting army policemen and blowing civilians up.

--

The next stage is too move away from the glorification of such actions so that would be two things.
The third stage would be actual condemnation of any deaths caused by any branch of republicanism. And not couch it in terms of a an 'incorrect strategy'

Yawn.

I can't see the British Army doing that. Sure even our own FG admire the Tans.
You need to reconcile yourself with the fact that Irish people from all political walks took part in killings, beatings and the like to try further a cause. You should read up on Irish history embrace that and move on. The troubles are over, the civil war is over and Liam Cosgrave and Eoin O'Duffy are dead. Do you truly expect Charlie Flanagan to apologise for his father's antisemetism anytime we discuss FG or it's policies? MM apologise for deValera's/Haughey's actions anytime we talk FF?

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

You said you think MLMD is a good politician, which isn't believable quite frankly based on your posts. Suggesting MLMD might have pretended she had Covid for a PR stunt for example. And..
What do you mean by this? The opposition play a vital role in democratic politics unless you prefer an echo chamber.

I asked to name one good thing, if the best you can come up with is sitting in the opposition then that is a seriously poor return for people voting for them

Do you not think?

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They decided to stop shooting army, policemen, and blowing civilians up.

--

The next stage is too move away from the glorification of such actions so that would be two things.
The third stage would be actual condemnation of any deaths caused by any branch of republicanism. And not couch it in terms of a an 'incorrect strategy'

...but thats not going to happen. The armed struggle carried out by the Provisonals was a justified one in their opinion (and mine, for what its worth).

Odhinn

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I asked to name one good thing, if the best you can come up with is sitting in the opposition then that is a seriously poor return for people voting for them

Do you not think?

I'll point out - again - that they are not in opposition by choice, rather they are there because neither FF or FG will do business with them.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

Yawn.

I can't see the British Army doing that. Sure even our own FG admire the Tans.
You need to reconcile yourself with the fact that Irish people from all political walks took part in killings, beatings and the like to try further a cause. You should read up on Irish history embrace that and move on. The troubles are over, the civil war is over and Liam Cosgrave and Eoin O'Duffy are dead. Do you truly expect Charlie Flanagan to apologise for his father's antisemetism anytime we discuss FG or it's policies? MM apologise for deValera's/Haughey's actions anytime we talk FF?

What did killing people in the south of Ireland during the troubles gain may I ask?

You can talk about FF and FG etc but the IRA with the help of SF killed people in the South because they stood up against them....

Jinglejangle69

Odhinn wrote: »

I'll point out - again - that they are not in opposition by choice, rather they are there because neither FF or FG will do business with them.

Nothing stopping them trying to form a government with the other left parties?

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I asked to name one good thing, if the best you can come up with is sitting in the opposition then that is a seriously poor return for people voting for them

Do you not think?

Not is they continue to draw votes away from FF/FG.
Opposition parties do not make government policy but they can support or fight against it.
You are basically saying SF never governed because they've not been in government. Fair point but hardly much of a criticism.

Shefwedfan

Odhinn wrote: »

I'll point out - again - that they are not in opposition by choice, rather they are there because neither FF or FG will do business with them.

They “won” the election but have managed to get no other party working with them. If SF went and got Greens, Labour, PBP etc all signed up they would force FG and FF to work with them

They have signed up with no parties, Ff and FG can’t stop other parties joining SF

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What did killing people in the south of Ireland during the troubles gain may I ask?

The cessation of British criminality. Equality of a sort for all people despite their religion or ethnicity. Democracy basically.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You can talk about FF and FG etc but the IRA with the help of SF killed people in the South because they stood up against them....

As did FF/FG. Score! You got the conversation were you wanted it. This whole easy going moderate just looking for political debate from shinners is revealed to be the crock of **** it was.

Odhinn

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Nothing stopping them trying to form a government with the other left parties?

Labour have said they won't go in with them, afaik. Even if they did get Labour support, that of the greens, SD, and PBP that only gets them 60 seats.

gormdubhgorm

Bowie wrote: »

"Yawn.£

'Yawn' what are you teenager?
If you think the RIC were only ever the Tans you need to re-learn your history.

Also those two RIC men murdered in Solohedbeg were Irishmen who were vastly outnumbered by IRA. One of those men murdered was fluent Irish speaker.
Far more of an Irishmen than many of these up ' oh ah'up the ra' brigade who support SF.

Odhinn

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They “won” the election but have managed to get no other party working with them. ..........

Do please explain how FF and FG ruling them out is the result of work by SF.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They “won” the election but have managed to get no other party working with them. If SF went and got Greens, Labour, PBP etc all signed up they would force FG and FF to work with them

They have signed up with no parties, Ff and FG can’t stop other parties joining SF

So we'd have a grand coalition of everyone bar FF/FG only SF decided not to?

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

'Yawn' what are you teenager?
If you think the RIC were only ever the Tans you need to re-learn your history.

Also those two RIC men murdered in Solohedbeg were Irishmen who were vastly outnumbered by IRA. One of those men murdered was fluent Irish speaker.
Far more of an Irishmen than many of these up ' oh ah'up the ra' brigade who support SF.

Dear o dear. Do you think that the acheivment of free state staus and later the Republic shouldn't have taken place?

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

...but thats not going to happen. The armed struggle carried out by the Provisonals was a justified one in their opinion (and mine, for what its worth).

I have come a complete 180 on it. I was brainwashed when I was younger (like you I assume) that a 32 county would be the promised land.
In reality it will cost a lot both financially and practically. It will likely ignite a new 'Troubles'. Only this time the Unionists would be fighting against the Irish oppressors.
For what? Six counties where they can just paint the post boxes green?

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

'Yawn' what are you teenager?
If you think the RIC were only ever the Tans you need to re-learn your history.

Also those two RIC men murdered in Solohedbeg were Irishmen who were vastly outnumbered by IRA. One of those men murdered was fluent Irish speaker.
Far more of an Irishmen than many of these up ' oh ah'up the ra' brigade who support SF.

The yawn was to show how boring I find your repetition of the same circular 'arguments' rather than discussing topics at hand. Every discussion involving SF is your time to ****e on about the IRA. It's pointless and boring to me.
I don't care about the RIC/Tans in this context. Read your post ffs, this isn't 'Drunk History'.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

The cessation of British criminality. Equality of a sort for all people despite their religion or ethnicity. Democracy basically.



As did FF/FG. Score! You got the conversation were you wanted it. This whole easy going moderate just looking for political debate from shinners is revealed to be the crock of **** it was.

Excuse me but I mentioned the south of Ireland in question. You mentioned the IRA not me.

Killing people in the South was nothing to do with British army

gormdubhgorm

Deleted User wrote: »

You really dont,the tans were sworn in as police constables?

You can thank the british PM lylod george for this particular fact



Pretty sure at least 1 of those,who launvhes the attack,went onto be a nazi sympatihising FF TD,until mid 60s....kind of a misnomer to blame shinners for this.

Eamon Ceant's father was a Constable in the RIC for instance.
People need to move away from the brainwashing republican lines. Also I don't listen to liveline.
Even the fella Kevin Barry who was 18 summers etc. The fella he shot Private Harold Washington was about 15.
This is the type of hypocrisy with republicanism, and rebel songs etc.