Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

The yawn was to show how boring I find your repetition of the same circular 'arguments' rather than discussing topics at hand. Every discussion involving SF is your time to ****e on about the IRA. It's pointless and boring to me.
I don't care about the RIC/Tans in this context. Read your post ffs, this isn't 'Drunk History'.

You brought the IRA into it, not anyone else, so throwing your toys out of pram now is too late

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Excuse me but I mentioned the south of Ireland in question. You mentioned the IRA not me.

Killing people in the South was nothing to do with British army

Gormdubh brought up the IRA. I responded, you responded to that with more IRA.

It was likely related to their cause as much as the killings the others carried out in the south. These things happened.
You still on your parties that aren't in government don't govern kick or have you moved on completely?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You brought the IRA into it, not anyone else, so throwing your toys out of pram now is too late

Incorrect. See above. I'm literally complaining to him about bringing up the IRA all the time.

So that's a yes I take it :rolleyes:

Finty Lemon

Odhinn wrote: »

...but thats not going to happen. The armed struggle carried out by the Provisonals was a justified one in their opinion (and mine, for what its worth).

Morally justified or not, it failed utterly and was a strategic disaster so cannot be justified in a political sense. SF spent 30 years backing a military campaign and end up supping tea with her Majesty! For what? Seats in a glorified county council. Talk about a climbdown.

The only people who benefitted from it all were the armed groups on both sides who have used the situation to build criminal empires. I suppose a lot of SF members would be ok with that. Meanwhile the Irish people voted by 90% plus to drop their claim on NI. 2-0 to HMG

The only thing SF care about is a united Ireland. They would go to any point on the political spectrum to deliver this. If it does happen, it will be demographics that does it not SF policies. They, through their own poor judgment and short sighted policies, have delayed the very thing they seek the most. Unfit.

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have come a complete 180 on it. I was brainwashed when I was younger (like you I assume) that a 32 county would be the promised land.
In reality it will cost a lot both financially and practically. It will likely ignite a new 'Troubles'. Only this time the Unionists would be fighting against the Irish oppressors.
For what? Six counties where they can just paint the post boxes green?

The fuel behind the armed struggle in the North wasn't a desire for unity with the south, but the desire for unity to alleviate the sectarian state with all its attendant evils.

gormdubhgorm

Bowie wrote: »

The yawn was to show how boring I find your repetition of the same circular 'arguments' rather than discussing topics at hand. Every discussion involving SF is your time to ****e on about the IRA. It's pointless and boring to me.
I don't care about the RIC/Tans in this context. Read your post ffs, this isn't 'Drunk History'.

So why did David Cullinane go on about the IRA then? Did you yawn then or cheer?
When SF cheered when a new TD was elected and the tricolour was waved and the 'up the RA' a nation once again was sung. Did you yawn or cheer?

You and those types exactly the type of republican hypocrites, who I am on about.

Edgware

Odhinn wrote: »

...but thats not going to happen. The armed struggle carried out by the Provisonals was a justified one in their opinion (and mine, for what its worth).

Which is very little from behind your couch

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

The fuel behind the armed struggle in the North wasn't a desire for unity with the south, but the desire for unity to alleviate the sectarian state with all its attendant evils.

Yeah and... that is gone now. So why is there a real need for unification? It is only purely ideologically based.

Odhinn

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Morally justified or not, it failed utterly and was a strategic disaster so cannot be justified in a political sense. SF spent 30 years backing a military campaign and end up supping tead with her Majesty! For what? Seats in a glorified county council. Talk about a climbdown.

..........

...an agreement with international support and reform of the sectarian statelet are hardly a "climb down" or failure.

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Eamon Ceant's father was a Constable in the RIC for instance.
People need to move away from the brainwashing republican lines. Also I don't listen to liveline.
Even the fella Kevin Barry who was 18 summers etc. The fella he shot Private Harold Washington was about 15.
This is the type of hypocrisy with republicanism, and rebel songs etc.

..you can't see the fact that crown forces were the aggressor in suppressing nationalism and its desire for a free and independent state?

gormdubhgorm

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Morally justified or not, it failed utterly and was a strategic disaster so cannot be justified in a political sense. SF spent 30 years backing a military campaign and end up supping tead with her Majesty! For what? Seats in a glorified county council. Talk about a climbdown.

The only people who benefitted from it all were the armed groups on both sides who have used the situation to build criminal empires. I suppose a lot of SF members would be ok with that. Meanwhile the Irish people voted by 90% plus to drop their claim on NI. 2-0 to HMG

The only thing SF care about is a united Ireland. They would go to any point on the political spectrum to deliver this. If it does happen, it will be demographics that does it not SF policies. They, through their own poor judgment and short sighted policies, have delayed the very thing they seek the most. Unfit.

Yep, and don't forget the other pillar of SF was the real revival of the Irish language. Yet only about 70k speak Irish everyday in Ireland. Not only that some in SF have no Irish Michelle O'Neill or a very basic grasp of Irish like Mary Lou.

If the first pillar could not be achieved in well over 100 years since the Gaelic League, how in the name of Jayus are SF going to achieve a UI. A nice peaceful UI?

It is pie in the sky stuff.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

So why did David Cullinane go on about the IRA then? Did you yawn then or cheer?
When SF cheered when a new TD was elected and the tricolour was waved and the 'up the RA' a nation once again was sung. Did you yawn or cheer?

You and those types exactly the type of republican hypocrites, who I am on about.

An ejit being an ejit. Every party has them sadly. Sure Charlie Flanagan and FG wanted a parade for the RIC/Tans.

I don't go in for all that.

How am I a hypocrite? You want to discuss things like the IRA and killing, good for you. It's boring at this point. *Yawn* If I was over in the FG thread and people kept going on about racism/nazism and FG I'd be as bored too. They merit reference, (IRA/Nazis-Blueshirts) but in context not constantly. Change the record, it's got Ohh Ahh up the 'Ra on it .

Odhinn

Odhinn wrote: »

Regardless of whether they are or not, they aren't sitting in opposition by choice, if you might recall. FF and FG have refused to do business with them.

What about the rest of the TD’s? MaryLou isn’t even acknowledging their approaches.

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

..you can't see the fact that crown forces were the aggressor in suppressing nationalism and its desire for a free and independent state?

Well Eamon Ceannt's father did not feel that way and the money he earned from the 'crowns forces' rared him.
But that is well over a century ago now. Where your 'oppression' these days? You sound like James Dean. A rebel without a clause.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

Gormdubh brought up the IRA. I responded, you responded to that with more IRA.

It was likely related to their cause as much as the killings the others carried out in the south. These things happened.
You still on your parties that aren't in government don't govern kick or have you moved on completely?



Incorrect. See above. I'm literally complaining to him about bringing up the IRA all the time.

So that's a yes I take it :rolleyes:

Check you post, you brought them up.....Gormdubh came after that


I was specific when I mentioned the South to keep the IRA out of it.

Bowie wrote: »

As much if not more than every other opposition party/TD. Called out cronyism and incompetence. Why even FG's Leo would relish such an opportunity for the good of the country. The opposition play an important roll.
As for SF specifically it's hard to say. They would have played a roll in every failed policy FF/FG stood down. Every positive for the country they supported and having connections with the north and the IRA were likely invaluable in obtaining peace. If you are looking for policies they implemented you'd likely need look at local level.
I suspect this is just another of your non-attack attacks on SF and you've no interest in any response, but there it is anyway.

gormdubhgorm

Bowie wrote: »

An ejit being an ejit. Every party has them sadly. Sure Charlie Flanagan and FG wanted a parade for the RIC/Tans.

I don't go in for all that.

How am I a hypocrite? You want to discuss things like the IRA and killing, good for you. It's boring at this point. *Yawn* If I was over in the FG thread and people kept going on about racism/nazism and FG I'd be as bored too. They merit reference, (IRA/Nazis-Blueshirts) but in context not constantly. Change the record, it's got Ohh Ahh up the 'Ra on it .

It is not boring point it is hypocrisy of SF they seem to have a lot more eejits than many other parties Dessie Ellis, AOS the list goes on.

SF will always glorify and protect republicans/IRA/former members no matter how immoral thier actions are. Until that happens myself any many others will not vote for them for DE, as simple as that. You only have to look at Mary Lou's last Late Late interview, to see the amount of playing with words SF do when the IRA comes up.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

An ejit being an ejit. Every party has them sadly. Sure Charlie Flanagan and FG wanted a parade for the RIC/Tans.

I don't go in for all that.

How am I a hypocrite? You want to discuss things like the IRA and killing, good for you. It's boring at this point. *Yawn* If I was over in the FG thread and people kept going on about racism/nazism and FG I'd be as bored too. They merit reference, (IRA/Nazis-Blueshirts) but in context not constantly. Change the record, it's got Ohh Ahh up the 'Ra on it .

If thats the truth then condemn him. Especially on live TV. MLM just brushed over it.

You mention Nazis, what would happen if a German politician done a certain hand sign?

Also we should not forget about this which SF like to brush under the carpet https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-51381092

TheCitizen

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Morally justified or not, it failed utterly and was a strategic disaster so cannot be justified in a political sense. SF spent 30 years backing a military campaign and end up supping tead with her Majesty! For what? Seats in a glorified county council. Talk about a climbdown.

The only people who benefitted from it all were the armed groups on both sides who have used the situation to build criminal empires. I suppose a lot of SF members would be ok with that. Meanwhile the Irish people voted by 90% plus to drop their claim on NI. 2-0 to HMG

The only thing SF care about is a united Ireland. They would go to any point on the political spectrum to deliver this. If it does happen, it will be demographics that does it not SF policies. They, through their own poor judgment and short sighted policies, have delayed the very thing they seek the most. Unfit.

It's amazing the amount of people that pontificate about history when they haven't a clue, or as the case may be are deliberately misinterpreting history to suit their own narrative.

The recent conflict in Northern Ireland continued on for 30 years because the Unionists vetoed Sunningdale in 1974. O'Neill from the Unionists paid the political price as Paisley and hardliners whipped up a frenzy for their own political ends.

The GFA years later was similar in many ways to Sunningdale. "Sunningdale for slow learners" the GFA was described as by Seamus Mallon I believe and he was directing his ire at Republicans and Unionists. However, it wasn't Nationalists and/or Republicans that scuppered Sunningdale. Paisley and the DUP of course initially opposed the GFA but then ironically implemented it when his party became the biggest Unionist Party and took the trappings of office.

Please read a few history books on this before coming on here spouting the anti Sinn fein line just cos you probably vote for an opponent political party.

gormdubhgorm

Deleted User wrote: »

Indeed speaking of paul quinn and since a thread about politians disappearing....why have ffg dropped his family like a hot snot as soon as election was over?

Because it was clear that was no genuine movement from SF on the issue?
It was mentioned time and time again, no movement.
Then the covid19 arrived and instead of dodging a bullet like they usually do, or deflecting. It looks like metaphorically covid19 crisis has hit SF hard. Ironically, practically speaking - gloves, sunglasses and a balaclava, may provide some protection against covid19.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Check you post, you brought them up.....Gormdubh came after that


I was specific when I mentioned the South to keep the IRA out of it.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I did ask the question to see if it was just me who couldn't come up with a single good thing they have done. Not a single answer yet.



I wouldn't say I hate SF either, I see MLM is a good politician. I felt her interview on the LLS was good till the "up da Ra" question which she was let down with....

You brought up the IRA first, but it was in context. Then I mentioned them in context.

Fair enough I was the first to use the IRA in that line of discussion, as it related to a query you've lost interest in if you ever had any.
I then responded to an off topic IRA slant and you responded to that. I'm sure others mentioned the IRA before me.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well Eamon Ceannt's father did not feel that way and the money he earned from the 'crowns forces' rared him.
But that is well over a century ago now. Where your 'oppression' these days? You sound like James Dean. A rebel without a clause.

Where's your IRA 'these days'. The war is over. There still is a cause.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is not boring point it is hypocrisy of SF they seem to have a lot more eejits than many other parties Dessie Ellis, AOS the list goes on.

SF will always glorify and protect republicans/IRA/former members no matter how immoral thier actions are. Until that happens myself any many others will not vote for them for DE, as simple as that. You only have to look at Mary Lou's last Late Late interview, to see the amount of playing with words SF do when the IRA comes up.

That's not my hypocrisy, nor TBF is it SF's. You are just pointing out some say 'up the 'RA' and some where in it. Big whup.

Funny, earlier you were going on about how they'll move away from it. Make up your mind.
She has to. If I were head of a political party that had ties to an illegal organisation I'd be careful too. That's just good sense IMO. FG's Drew Harris would be dawn raiding her house if she wasn't.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Ffg are in government and direct garda policy/dept of justice


What have sf got to do with this,since they arent allowed into government......

indeed it was ffg courting his elderly parents for political gain,incentive should lie with them imo

Care to translate?

gormdubhgorm

Bowie wrote: »

Where's your IRA 'these days'. The war is over. There still is a cause.



That's not my hypocrisy, nor TBF is it SF's. You are just pointing out some say 'up the 'RA' and some where in it. Big whup.

Funny, earlier you were going on about how they'll move away from it. Make up your mind.
She has to. If I were head of a political party that had ties to an illegal organisation I'd be careful too. That's just good sense IMO.

Army Council is still there in one form or another. Gerry appearing in photo ops and going to negotiations not long ago


You don't seem to get it do you -

Main types of SF supporter

1) Some born in the 'occupied 6' - want freedom etc etc - glorify republicanism
2) Born in the ROI working class disenfranchised want a 'dodgy/hard' vibe - vote SF have Celtic and liverpool/man united tattoos.
3) The naive young - who are too young to remember the troubles so have no issue voting SF nor do they see thier hypocrisy.

SF's problem is they claim to have moved away from violence. But attract those who would get a kick out of those days (Cullinane) or those who glorify Republican violence (Ellis)
When SF get rid of this yahoo vibe only then will they be a proper party which the electorate can buy into. At the moment they still have to use SF double speak when it comes to anything relating to republicanism.
Plus the nation should be thankful that SF were not in charge during cocvid19 as they would have been woefully under-qualified to handle it.

Dessie Ellis, AOS, Mark Ward etc? They would hardly exude a sense of calm and professionalism in a crisis would they? I would say the SF thinktanks have no clue what to do now other than hope that something goes wrong (not too wrong) with the caretaker government's handling of the covid19 in the hope they get a bump in the polls with a few statements of 'I told you so'

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

What part are you struggling on

All of it. I don’t talk in riddles.

Beasty

Edgware wrote: »

Which is very little from behind your couch

Attack the post, not the poster

all about the mane

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ffg are in government and direct garda policy/dept of justice


What have sf got to do with this,since they arent allowed into government......

indeed it was ffg courting his elderly parents for political gain prior to election,incentive should lie with them imo

‘Not allowed into government’

Who is stopping them?

Odhinn

all about the mane wrote: »

‘Not allowed into government’

Who is stopping them?

The FF and FG parties, quite explicitly.

gormdubhgorm

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you read post it was replied to??


It was a qs,why ffg havnt progressed the inquiry into sean quinn....sf cant since republicans arent allowed in government



They rather cynically courted his elderly parents prior to election,for political gain??time to progress investigation,or apoligise to his family

Because SF are unwilling to give the 'all clear' for those who are told to say nothing about those who are protecting the murderers of Sean Quinn - or the murderers of Sean Quinn.

SF do not have to be 'in' to do that. They merely have to act like ordinary decent human beings with a conscious. Instead of playing the 'good republican' game. Until that happens it is very difficult for the authorities to make a move on it. As at the moment the alleged perps are being 'protected' in their community by a cloak of republicanism.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Army Council is still there in one form or another. Gerry appearing in photo ops and going to negotiations not long ago


You don't seem to get it do you -

Main types of SF supporter

1) Some born in the 'occupied 6' - want freedom etc etc - glorify republicanism
2) Born in the ROI working class disenfranchised want a 'dodgy/hard' vibe - vote SF have Celtic and liverpool/man united tattoos.
3) The naive young - who are too young to remember the troubles so have no issue voting SF nor do they see thier hypocrisy.

SF's problem is they claim to have moved away from violence. But attract those who would get a kick out of those days (Cullinane) or those who glorify Republican violence (Ellis)
When SF get rid of this yahoo vibe only then will they be a proper party which the electorate can buy into. At the moment they still have to use SF double speak when it comes to anything relating to republicanism.
Plus the nation should be thankful that SF were not in charge during cocvid19 as they would have been woefully under-qualified to handle it.

Dessie Ellis, AOS, Mark Ward etc? They would hardly exude a sense of calm and professionalism in a crisis would they? I would say the SF thinktanks have no clue what to do now other than hope that something goes wrong (not too wrong) with the caretaker government's handling of the covid19 in the hope they get a bump in the polls with a few statements of 'I told you so'

They didn't die off no. Of course there are former IRA members involved with SF decisions. So what?
Many types of supporter for every party, again I say so what? Not sure what your point is TBH. You neglected to list ordinary members of the public who had enough of FF/FG's brand of governing.

I agree.
In your opinion. Who's to say? I think most folk would listen to experts during crises, except FG/FF of course, Covid#19 being an exception thankfully.

In your opinion. I think the upper echelons of FG are gombeens and corporate shills but hey...

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

The FF and FG parties, quite explicitly.

Rubbish it is both a combination of SF duplicity (taking out of the side of thier mouth on republican issues and past) that is stopping them. And thier inability to form a coalition with 'the left'.

Odhinn

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Rubbish it is both a combination of SF duplicity (taking out of the side of thier mouth on republican issues and past) that is stopping them. ..............

Do explain this please. FF & FG refuse to go into government - how is this SF's fault?

Jinglejangle69

Odhinn wrote: »

Do explain this please. FF & FG refuse to go into government - how is this SF's fault?

Well then they didn't get enough of a mandate so.

That's the way it crumbles.

Better luck next time.