Is it just me or have SF vanished?

all about the mane

Odhinn wrote: »

The FF and FG parties, quite explicitly.

How are they stopping them?

gormdubhgorm

Bowie wrote: »

They didn't die off no. Of course there are former IRA members involved with SF decisions. So what?
Many types of supporter for every party, again I say so what? Not sure what your point is TBH. You neglected to list ordinary members of the public who had enough of FF/FG's brand of governing.

I agree.
In your opinion. Who's to say? I think most folk would listen to experts during crises, except FG/FF of course, Covid#19 being an exception thankfully.

In your opinion. I think the upper echelons of FG are gombeens and corporate shills but hey...

Well I voted FG for the first time in my life last election precisely for the reason they said they would not go into government with SF.

I also voted Labour who said they would not go in with SF pre-election.
I also voted Greens who I hoped would make up the numbers in a coalition.

The fact is (FG FF and Labour Greens) got more votes and seats than SF so that is the real popular vote.

As for the IRA - so what? There is no so what. Any fool can see who is really pulling the strings in SF and it is not those who have been elected by and large (unless they were former members of the council)

Plus SF always speak in double speak like you are now pretending the IRA have gone. But they have just re-branded like the way eircom is now eir.

ThunbergsAreGo

Odhinn wrote: »

Do explain this please. FF & FG refuse to go into government - how is this SF's fault?

They seem to be the only ones trying to be in government

Odhinn

all about the mane wrote: »

How are they stopping them?

They've refused to go into government with them.

ThunbergsAreGo

Odhinn wrote: »

They've refused to go into government with them.

Just as they said they would

Jinglejangle69

Odhinn wrote: »

They've refused to go into government with them.

So what have SF done to try form a government given what you just said?

They just gave up.

Talk about putting all your eggs in the worst basket.

Mary Lou said FF or FG in government would be a disaster.


Yet now she would go into government with them?

Shefwedfan

Odhinn wrote: »

The FF and FG parties, quite explicitly.

For a party that "won" the election we are now 16 weeks since that election, no government is formed yet. The old one is still in place and SF have done what exactly to form a government?

all about the mane

Odhinn wrote: »

They've refused to go into government with them.

So? That’s not stopping them. You do know how government formation works, yeah?

aido79

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

So what have SF done to try form a government given what you just said?

They just gave up.

Talk about putting all your eggs in the worst basket.

Mary Lou said FF or FG in government would be a disaster.


Yet now she would go into government with them?

She doesn't even seem to mind which of them she goes into government with.

gormdubhgorm

Odhinn wrote: »

They've refused to go into government with them.

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Just as they said they would

It is FF and FG's (and Labour's) mandate not to go into government with SF that was clearly said to electorate pre-election. It is a bit hypocritical of SF and SF supporters to critise FF and FG's mandate. When SF go on about thier 'mondate' not go into Westminster for example. Even if SF could have stopped Brexit by going into WM!

Odhinn

all about the mane wrote: »

So? That’s not stopping them. You do know how government formation works, yeah?

Intellectual dishonesty. The numbers don't add up, as is obvious to any honest observer.

all about the mane

Odhinn wrote: »

Intellectual dishonesty. The numbers don't add up, as is obvious to any honest observer.

What are the numbers?

Shefwedfan

Odhinn wrote: »

Intellectual dishonesty. The numbers don't add up, as is obvious to any honest observer.

If SF had every other party with them, or at least a few they would force another general election so they could "win" again....


They have zero partities. Even the PBP haven't signed up and they went to the polls asking to vote SF with them.

The Greens met with SF on 24th of Feb, yet nearly 3 months later they have now gone into conversations with FF/FG. So in those 3 months what have SF done to keep the Greens at the table with them?

* sorry it was 12th: https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-host-constructive-talks-with-greens-and-pbp-981413.html

A full 3 months later and PBP are writing to SF asking about forming a government. SF are trying really hard to make sure no party will go into government with them, even have the mighty Pearse slagging off the Greens in press today

Odhinn

all about the mane wrote: »

What are the numbers?

SF and PBP, the Labour party & the Social Democrats give a total of 60 seats. In the highly unlikely event they got all 19 independents on board that would still only give them 79 seats.

Finty Lemon

TheCitizen wrote: »

It's amazing the amount of people that pontificate about history when they haven't a clue, or as the case may be are deliberately misinterpreting history to suit their own narrative.

The recent conflict in Northern Ireland continued on for 30 years because the Unionists vetoed Sunningdale in 1974. O'Neill from the Unionists paid the political price as Paisley and hardliners whipped up a frenzy for their own political ends.

The GFA years later was similar in many ways to Sunningdale. "Sunningdale for slow learners" the GFA was described as by Seamus Mallon I believe and he was directing his ire at Republicans and Unionists. However, it wasn't Nationalists and/or Republicans that scuppered Sunningdale. Paisley and the DUP of course initially opposed the GFA but then ironically implemented it when his party became the biggest Unionist Party and took the trappings of office.

Please read a few history books on this before coming on here spouting the anti Sinn fein line just cos you probably vote for an opponent political party.

Indeed the loyalist effort was the primary reason for Sunningdale's demise. But SF opposed the agreement too, as it feared any 'settlement' would undermine support for the PIRA campaign within the Nationalist community. Mallon's iconic 'slow learners' line was directed at the violence merchants on both sides. Funny how the efforts of the true architects of peace are now being appropriated by the pups of the dogs who opposed it... can I suggest that you read Seamus Mallons 'A Shared Home Place', just to broaden your own understanding (there is more to life than the SF bookshop after all)

SF have not forgotten the lesson on the need for instability either, now seeking perpetual crises within the GFA to de-stabilize the NI executive, for fear it might actually deliver a functioning administration. RHI was a classic case and there will be more.

The big concern among some leaders in SF is that a growing nationalist middle class could become too comfortable in a prosperous NI and turn away from the United-Ireland at-all-costs mantra. Developing a victim narrative around the Irish language is a key ploy to arrest this possibility. Gullible gaeilgeoiri rush to the flag. A closed border post-Brexit would also do wonders for the cause. The DUP are just a bit too think to read the playbook.

Shefwedfan

Odhinn wrote: »

SF and PBP, the Labour party & the Social Democrats give a total of 60 seats. In the highly unlikely event they got all 19 independents on board that would still only give them 79 seats.

Think is, if they had any of the other parties that would stop FF/FG forming a government too.....so either FF/FG would have to come to them or another election.....


In the case of another election then FF/FG would be blamed for not agreeing with SF.....that would have been the smart play if SF wanted to be in government. Doesn't take a genius to work it out

a very cool kid

Odhinn wrote: »

The FF and FG parties, quite explicitly.

Would you support Sinn Féin being part of a government with Michael Martin as Taoiseach?

Odhinn

a very cool kid wrote: »

Would you support Sinn Féin being part of a government with Michael Martin as Taoiseach?

..reluctantly.

blackwhite

Odhinn wrote: »

SF and PBP, the Labour party & the Social Democrats give a total of 60 seats. In the highly unlikely event they got all 19 independents on board that would still only give them 79 seats.

You accuse others of dishonesty - yet deliberately omit the Greens (who are certainly a party of the left) from the count :rolleyes:

They were there to be courted by any party serious about tying to form a Govt - yet somehow it’s the fault of FF or FG that Sinn Fein are too toxic to even win over other left wing parties?
Cut the dishonest BS - does nothing but undermine your credibility

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well I voted FG for the first time in my life last election precisely for the reason they said they would not go into government with SF.

I also voted Labour who said they would not go in with SF pre-election.
I also voted Greens who I hoped would make up the numbers in a coalition.

The fact is (FG FF and Labour Greens) got more votes and seats than SF so that is the real popular vote.

As for the IRA - so what? There is no so what. Any fool can see who is really pulling the strings in SF and it is not those who have been elected by and large (unless they were former members of the council)

Plus SF always speak in double speak like you are now pretending the IRA have gone. But they have just re-branded like the way eircom is now eir.

FF SF, Greens and Labour got more of a mandate...wait, what's the point? Various numbers of others got more votes combined than other combinations of others? Okay.

I think everyone knows the connections between SF and the IRA and either voted for them or didn't. Do you think you are schooling the electorate or something? SF is in part made up of former IRA. We all know this.

SF would be stupid to claim any firm association to an illegal organisation.
The IRA are not active and signed up to peace. That's all I care about. If you want talking out the side of your mouth look no further than FF/FG happy to take selfies and get pats on the back for the peace process while constantly talking like it never happened when criticised for policies.

James Brown

blackwhite wrote: »

You accuse others of dishonesty - yet deliberately omit the Greens (who are certainly a party of the left) from the count :rolleyes:

They were there to be courted by any party serious about tying to form a Govt - yet somehow it’s the fault of FF or FG that Sinn Fein are too toxic to even win over other left wing parties?
Cut the dishonest BS - does nothing but undermine your credibility

Don't be confused by the faux morals of FG and FF.
FG and FF are too toxic for most everyone.
FG wont wear SF and after some debate, FF decided not to either.
The electorate don't think SF are any more toxic than FF and by the looks of it less toxic than FG.

blackwhite

Bowie wrote: »

Don't be confused by the faux morals of FG and FF.
FG and FF are too toxic for most everyone.
FG wont wear SF and after some debate, FF decided not to either.
The electorate don't think SF are any more toxic than FF and by the looks of it less toxic than FG.

Well done at completely misrepresenting the point.

Odhinn dishonestly omitted the Greens to try and claim that SF couldn’t form a Govt without FF or FG.

It’s says it all about the mindset of the SF cheerleaders that the abject failure of SF to win over the rest of the left is somehow the fault of FF or FG.

IMO no one will ultimately be able to form a Govt from the Feb election results. FF and FG should responsibility for their own failure to win over partners, just as SF should take responsibility for their own failure to win over potential partners.

Bolloxology of trying to blame other parties for SF’s own failure to win over partners just sums up the cult-like idiocy that plagues SF supporters.

Isn’t it you that always goes on about politics not being about “teams”?

Seems you’re very keen (as always) to shout down anyone who dares point a hint of criticism at SF. At least the hypocrisy is consistent :rolleyes:

markodaly

Odhinn wrote: »

...but thats not going to happen. The armed struggle carried out by the Provisonals was a justified one in their opinion (and mine, for what its worth).

Is that a softer more politically correct way of saying, committing murder and war crimes?

Regardless, you do realise that many people have issues with this?

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

The cessation of British criminality. Equality of a sort for all people despite their religion or ethnicity. Democracy basically.

So killing people was in the name of 'Democracy' even though the Provos had no democratic mandate.

Brilliant, just brilliant!

jimmycrackcorm

Bowie wrote: »

Don't be confused by the faux morals of FG and FF.
FG and FF are too toxic for most everyone.
FG wont wear SF and after some debate, FF decided not to either.
The electorate don't think SF are any more toxic than FF and by the looks of it less toxic than FG.

FF and FG have less combined seats than the remaining seats. so it's very apparent that SF is too toxic to be able to form a government with everyone else.

SF are telling us that we voted for change from the previous FG govt backed by FF. so where is it then?

Shefwedfan

markodaly wrote: »

So killing people was in the name of 'Democracy' even though the Provos had no democratic mandate.

Brilliant, just brilliant!

We have still to get an answer why killing people in the South of Ireland achieved anything in the struggle up the North?


What exactly was achieved in this fight against "cessation of British criminality" by killing Martin Cahill? or just one scumbag killing another?

smurgen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

We have still to get an answer why killing people in the South of Ireland achieved anything in the struggle up the North?


What exactly was achieved in this fight against "cessation of British criminality" by killing Martin Cahill? or just one scumbag killing another?

Jesus still on here ranting and raving. Take a break man

Shefwedfan

It would be interesting to see the SF supporters on here, who think the IRA achieved something. How many actually lived in the North or in the border area during the troubles?

You could ask but I doubt you would get a proper answer. Same with all these facebook clowns going around sticking the flag on everything as if they are great patriots. I bet the percentage is extremely low.

blanch152

Odhinn wrote: »

SF and PBP, the Labour party & the Social Democrats give a total of 60 seats. In the highly unlikely event they got all 19 independents on board that would still only give them 79 seats.

You are forgetting the Greens, who initially at least, were interested in talking to Sinn Fein. Mary-Lou has comprehensively messed that up, with the Greens turning back to FF/FG. What a failure of leadership by her. She was handed PBP, Greens and Soc Dems on a plate and somehow managed to throw it all away.

TheCitizen

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Rubbish it is both a combination of SF duplicity (taking out of the side of thier mouth on republican issues and past) that is stopping them. And thier inability to form a coalition with 'the left'.

Nope. FF actually softened their stance re government coalition with SF on the first day of the election count when the projected numbers put them about 7 seats ahead. When it turned out that the results were almost neck and neck and with SF having a larger voteshare, FF changed tack and made a coalition with FG (who they pledged they wouldn’t also) instead.

This was outlined before on this thread. It’s unbelievable that this thread is still rumbling on with the same posters like you repeating yourselves ad nauseam. You didn’t want SF in government but you didn’t want them leading opposition either. The game is up.

SF will continue to play the long game and the more you attack them the bigger they will grow.