Is it just me or have SF vanished?

BloodyBill

TheCitizen wrote: »

:pac: What is this guy on? SF aren't painting the DUP as bigots and headbangers, they don't need to and in fact they have to try to work with them. The DUP do that all by themselves.

What's this about left wing bandits? You would take the DUP over Republicans any day? Most FF and FG people have more in common with Unionists than SF voters? What alternate universe do you inhabit?

FF and FG are opponents of SF, they used to be opponents of each other. They will remain opponents of SF until such time that one of them goes into government with SF like they are doing by going into government with each other just now.

Seriously it comes as a shock to you that centre right Southern voters have more in common with ordinary Unionists than with left wing Socialist Republicans. Did you honestly think that? Often travelled up to Northern Ireland to the Balmoral show as a kid showing cattle and the like and made great relationships. Do you think Irish rural dwellers or indeed middle class Dubs or Corkonians ect. have anything in common with council house Republicans from Weat Belfast or Derry.

The DUP have a few extremists. We all know that. I wouldn't paint them all with the one brush. Same as I wouldnt paint individual Sinn Feiners . The left wing outlook ,policies and republican past of Sinn Fein as a party will be what keeps it out of government in the South for good. Ireland is a conservative place ,always has been.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

So killing people was in the name of 'Democracy' even though the Provos had no democratic mandate.

Brilliant, just brilliant!

To them and their supporters obviously yes.

'democratic mandate'. Your ignorance is astounding. Democracy and equal rights was kind of the point.

Didn't you suggest a poster who got your back up would prefer if more people had died in Ireland from Covid #19? Go peddle your faux outrage elswhere.

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Wrong person....

Who do you support?

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If it is not, then why a manifesto? you can read it and I attached the link. It goes into details on what SF proposed to do

They set out what they want to do but they don't have full control in the North and the assembly doesn't have the powers that the Dail has for example. You must know this, but you're still trying to pretend otherwise. You're either being extremely ignorant or deliberately disingenuous.

gormdubhgorm

McMurphy wrote: »

Gormdub went days and days arguing and advocating his full support for FG to try and shoehorn in an official state commemoration for the Black and Tans** - and he now wants to stereotype "certain types of voters".

You literally couldn't make the hypocrisy up.



**Which is now "deferred" wonder if the proposed United Island Unit will approve of it?

It not hypocrisy the commemoration was done on the basis of peace and inclusiveness - the RIC since it's foundation back in the 1800's. As I have already sated Eammon Ceannt's father was an officer in the RIC (James Kent) for instance was he a Tan?

It is typical of the SF 'republican washing' of history - only play up to the bits that suit leaving out the bits that don't.
The SF reaction to the RIC commemoration was another one of the reasons that pushed me towards voting FG.

FrancieBrady

BloodyBill wrote: »

Seriously it comes as a shock to you that centre right Southern voters have more in common with ordinary Unionists than with left wing Socialist Republicans.

Of course they'd have a 'lot in common'...we are all Irish.

The difference would be a significant one though...who they want to be in 'union' with.

Shefwedfan

TheCitizen wrote: »

Who do you support?




They set out what they want to do but they don't have full control in the North and the assembly doesn't have the powers that the Dail has for example. You must know this, but you're still trying to pretend otherwise. You're either being extremely ignorant or deliberately disingenuous.

It is a simple question, post after post here is saying they have zero power in the North.


Now you are saying they do have power but not to the powers the Dail has. Which is the correct answer.


SO the question is, what have they done with those powers?

McMurphy

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It not hyocisy the comemoration was done on the basis of peace and the RIC since it's foundaion back in the 1800's. As I have already sated Eammon Ceannt's father was an officer in the RIC for instance was he a Tan?

It is typical of the SF 'republican washing' of history - only play up to the bits that suit leaving out the bits that don't.
The SF reaction to the RIC commemoration was another one of the reasons that pushed me towards voting FG.

I couldn't give a shiny shyte if Eamon Ceannts daddy was a purple flying spaghetti monster, you rowed in with your full support for an official state Black and Tans commemoration, and yet cry foul about the Ra.

Talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Added.

You're suggesting only SF had an issue with the brain fart? FG deferred it at the behest of the shinners - bit defeatist if you ask me. Fuppin Shinners making them do stuff lol.

Remember when Charlie and leo tried that reverse psychology about people who didn't support it and not supporting peace? Remind me how that went down with their subjects lol? Might even say it cost them an election.

markodaly

This article is doing the rounds. Worth a read.

https://progressivebrief.com/sinn-feins-frustrating-insistence-on-claiming/?fbclid=IwAR0knYG5WxyhQxxtozeiwAIP-0MfJ9sNrIKuSWgU8g7vR1KVQMTfGj1ssZc

It is a good disection on modern SF and the fact even though they try and wear their progressive clothes for clever electioneering, they are anything but.

Furthermore, Sinn Féin is reported as being the richest political party in Ireland with approximately 200 staff and over 50 properties in its possession, according to the party’s finance director Des Mackin

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

This article is doing the rounds. Worth a read.

https://progressivebrief.com/sinn-feins-frustrating-insistence-on-claiming/?fbclid=IwAR0knYG5WxyhQxxtozeiwAIP-0MfJ9sNrIKuSWgU8g7vR1KVQMTfGj1ssZc

It is a good disection on modern SF and the fact even though they try and wear their progressive clothes for clever electioneering, they are anything but.

"Doing the rounds" where?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It not hypocrisy the commemoration was done on the basis of peace and inclusiveness - the RIC since it's foundation back in the 1800's. As I have already sated Eammon Ceannt's father was an officer in the RIC (James Kent) for instance was he a Tan?

It is typical of the SF 'republican washing' of history - only play up to the bits that suit leaving out the bits that don't.
The SF reaction to the RIC commemoration was another one of the reasons that pushed me towards voting FG.

'Ireland' reacted to the Black and Tan state commemoration plans not just SF.

It had to have been the quickest about turn of any government here ever, such was the backlash.

blackwhite

Bowie wrote: »

On the one hand you are claiming SF, (who got more seats than FG by the way) are too toxic for other parties to sign up with and on the other saying people can't use that as a reason SF can't form a government. Do you see the nonsense that is?

Stop lying about what I posted.

I said SF can't blame FF or FG for SF's failure to win over the SDs, the Greens, Labour or any of the rest.

FF and FG can rightly be blamed for their own failures to win over coalition partners - but it's not their job to facilitate SF (much as it's not SF's job to facilitate FF or FG). That SF failed to get even one of the left-leaning parties to commit to anything serious is on SF.

But sure - it's easier to strawman than to address the actual point that was made.

FWIW I thought, and still think, that SF and FF should have been the first set of parties to try and work something out - their baseline ideologies are more closely aligned than FF and FG, and certainly more aligned than SF and FG. The fact that they didn't even try to talk seems to be more down to the personality clashes between MM and MLMD than anything else.

BloodyBill

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And the fact charlie flanagan labeled anyone raising queries surronding commerating black and tans/auxies as sinister elements (FG talk for terrorist)

Kinda just highlights how out of touch they are with the country....tell him head on down to kilmicheal this november and demand they commerated those they made clean sweep of

There ll be many people at Kilmichael who would support a commemoration for the RIC..

McMurphy

BloodyBill wrote: »

There ll be many people at Kilmichael who would support a commemoration for the RIC..

More power to them. They can commemorate The Nazi's, KKK and Khmer Rouge too if they wish.

Things start to get a bit iffy when it's a state commemoration though.

TheCitizen

BloodyBill wrote: »

Seriously it comes as a shock to you that centre right Southern voters have more in common with ordinary Unionists than with left wing Socialist Republicans. Did you honestly think that? Often travelled up to Northern Ireland to the Balmoral show as a kid showing cattle and the like and made great relationships. Do you think Irish rural dwellers or indeed middle class Dubs or Corkonians ect. have anything in common with council house Republicans from Weat Belfast or Derry.

"Council house Republicans" hmmmm. You say that like it's a bad thing which says a lot about you really, people in council houses North and South have votes as well btw.

Also SF have a broad range of support in Northern Ireland and in the Republic that goes beyond "council house Republicans" as you describe them.

BloodyBill wrote: »

The DUP have a few extremists. We all know that. I wouldn't paint them all with the one brush. Same as I wouldnt paint individual Sinn Feiners . The left wing outlook ,policies and republican past of Sinn Fein as a party will be what keeps it out of government in the South for good. Ireland is a conservative place ,always has been.

Ireland is conservative? Well it used to be. Socially though we've seen massive changes Abortion, Same Sex marriage etc.

Also in case you haven't noticed FFG's support between the two of them has steadily contracted over the last few decades to the point where they couldn't even form a government between them without enlisting support from other parties. They use to have about 80 percent of the vote share. Things have changed a lot from the days that conservatives like you were more prevalent. You're assertion that SF will be kept out of government in the Republic "for good" will definitely not hold.

On the day of the results of this election coming out Micheal Martin came on TV and more or less said he was open to a deal with SF, that was before the results were finalised and SF finished up one seat behind FF with a larger overall vote share.

It's only a matter of time before SF are in government in The Republic. Crazy stuff given the changes in voting patterns in recent times that you think otherwise.

gormdubhgorm

TheCitizen wrote: »

He didn't make any valid points. He just snarled and bitched in a juvenile and silly fashion attacking Sinn Fein for things that other parties did and blaming them for things out of context and which they don't have full control of.

Rubbish. I have already mentioned the Social Welfare powers SF gave away to WM twice now.
Plus SF brought down stormont over the pretense of an Irish act.
Also SF could have entered WM to stop Brexit but chose not to - mandate etc.
A special Ad Fheis could have sorted it out.

Ah so younger voters are naive now are they? They're naive because they see FF and FG running the country for nearly 100 years often in times of prosperity but still don't have the political will to reform the Irish health service after leading governments between them countless times? They're naive when they see the country in a prosperous position and yet through sheer negligence and laziness a housing crisis leads to families living in hotel rooms?

Is there a housing crisis in NI tell me? Who has the most homeless? Plus are those unfortunates living in hotels in the ROI liable to be attacked and murdered by republicans - in a row or are they safe?

I'm not sure the younger voters are as naive as you like to think they are, but sure go ahead you tell them they are naive, you tell them that because they don't agree with you and vote FF and FG that they haven't a clue what they're doing......go ahead..... you tell 'em........

Of course they are which is why SF target the Celtic top wearing working class the younger the better. Plenty of times SF voters claimed the IRA stuff dodgy Republicanism is all ancient history. You only have to go back slighly more than a decade. Then the real irony is SF are the first in the queue for any Republican commemoration from any era! A very selective memory is had it seems!

Plenty of politicians have been involved in scandals one one sort or another and it doesn't stop them getting elected. Your use of the words "certain type of voter" from Clondalkin says a lot about the type of arrogance and ignorance that you represent.

It is a certain type of voter under educated, probably malnourished, more than likely from a single parent family. Also with a few generations of unemployment and likely criminality in the family. Plus they are likely not to like black people or the immigrants taking thier jobs.
That is the only type of area Mark Ward or AOS would have being elected in.

OK scandals - thier are financial scandals many political parties have them in the world. Or martial scandals. I would not vote for those individuals involved in financial scandals by the way (Maria Bailey not in my constituency).
SF members are on a different level - bank robbery, murder, spying on ministers in the dail, cover up of murder. Has anyone associated with Leo Varadkar being found with a stun gun for example?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

This article is doing the rounds. Worth a read.

https://progressivebrief.com/sinn-feins-frustrating-insistence-on-claiming/?fbclid=IwAR0knYG5WxyhQxxtozeiwAIP-0MfJ9sNrIKuSWgU8g7vR1KVQMTfGj1ssZc

It is a good disection on modern SF and the fact even though they try and wear their progressive clothes for clever electioneering, they are anything but.

I got to the bit where the author, trying so hard to be 'neutral' and fair, had to breathlessly recount the record of what somebody did in a conflict situation to give a 'sinister' edge to his thesis. :P

I liked this put down.

Its long, but it’s certainly not important.

Frankly its incoherent & poorly constructed drivel which struggles to conceal your political prejudices.

Jinglejangle69

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tbf they have the posh-boys rattled,going by varadkars performances yesterday

Attack being best form of defence,you love to see it really

Posh boys?

Like Eoin O Broin and his blackrock college education?

Or Mary Lou from one of the poshest areas in Dublin and her private education?

More hypocrisy from SF supporters.

McMurphy

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally felt it just highlighted FG cynicism and lack of conviction in their beliefs


They had no issue forcing through commerating soldiers/DMP members killed in 1916....but ran away from commerating ric members as it hurted them politically


If.this wasnt an election year,they'd have rammed this through

Francie nailed it earlier, biggest U-turn by a government in years and years.

If Gorm etc think it was so warranted, why then was it scrapped I mean "deferred" so quickly?

Meanwhile Charlie and Leo adopt a "they're all wrong and we are right/it's them nor us" attitude.

You cannot, with a shred of integrity imo pontificate on these threads giving out stink about the Ra - yet support any notion of a planned official state commemoration for the Black and Tans it just makes it look like you're calling one squad a bunch of terrorising murdering bastard's while simultaneously wanting to legitimise the other by way of state commemoration.

One man's terrorist etc etc.

Shefwedfan

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Posh boys?

Like Eoin O Broin and his blackrock college education?

Or Mary Lou from one of the poshest areas in Dublin and her private education?

More hypocrisy from SF supporters.

Good down to earth Mary Lou :p

Jinglejangle69

You'd have to wonder was the murder and killings worth it if SF can't even have a say in payments for the people of the North.

What is the actual purpose of them been in power up there?

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

It is a simple question, post after post here is saying they have zero power in the North.


Now you are saying they do have power but not to the powers the Dail has. Which is the correct answer.


SO the question is, what have they done with those powers?

Why are you refusing to say who you vote for?

Anyway What's your point here exactly? The assembly in the North doesn't have the same powers as the Dail, are you trying to suggest otherwise? I'm speaking for myself, if you're going to address me address me on points I made.

What have they done with these powers? I already said I don't live in the North, what are you asking me for? I already said I presume they run the different departments and briefs like education or health or whatever it is they are over, but it's not the same as the powers the Dail has. I don't think they have fiscal powers for example or control over raising taxes etc. Do you really need me to spell all that out for you.

Look it up yourself the difference in range of powers between the NI Assembly and The Dail if you're so interested.

Jinglejangle69

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hmm....where have i said they arent posh??


...just its what FG nickname is on every msgboard at the min (poshboys),your nearly as rattled as varadkar there :pac:

Yeah real rattled here.

What on earth will I do?

Jinglejangle69

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Just way your coming across kid.....chill out

Its only bit of craic

Ah sure we all love the craic!!

gormdubhgorm

McMurphy wrote: »

I couldn't give a shiny shyte if Eamon Ceannts daddy was a purple flying spaghetti monster, you rowed in with your full support for an official state Black and Tans commemoration, and yet cry foul about the Ra.

Talking out of both sides of your mouth.

You cannot seem to read I am for inclusiveness involving all of history not just a narrow republican viewpoint of it. For years at school I was given the impression that Solohedbeg 1919 was this heroic start of the WOI.

It was far far from it - 2 RIC men Irish born and bred v 10 IRA men. Hardly a fair fight was it?

One of the RIC fluent Irish speaker with a large family - James McDonnell he was a widower. All those kids left orphaned. Where are the songs about him?

Remember when Charlie and leo tried that reverse psychology about people who didn't support it and not supporting peace? Remind me how that went down with their subjects lol? Might even say it cost them an election.

I doubt that was the sole reason. Sometimes an electorate want change for change sake.
But the vote was split all over the place
The SD vote killed labour split the vote, FF and FG split thier vote.
'The madsers' and/or the naive / 'head the balls' voted for PBP/SF and the like.
Plus in case you have not noticed SF only got 25% of the vote that means 75% of the electorate did not vote for them. And 56% of the electorate voted for parties that did not want SF in government.

gormdubhgorm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Posh boys?

Like Eoin O Broin and his blackrock college education?

Or Mary Lou from one of the poshest areas in Dublin and her private education?

More hypocrisy from SF supporters.

I was just about to say this. The irony is the SF hardcore were against these 'types'.
But they now realise it is part of the slow 'gentrification of SF' make it easier to sell to middle ground, and go for the female vote. No smoking guns try and leave them in the background

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I was just about to say this. The irony is the SF hardcore were against these 'types'.
But they now realise it is part of the slow 'gentrification of SF' make it easier to sell to middle ground, and go for the female vote. No smoking guns try and leave them in the background

O'Broin and MLMD don't give the impression that those less fortunate than them are beneath them. That is why Leo and Eoghan get the 'posh boys' nicknames.

gormdubhgorm

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats the nature of any war and ambushes....today is anniversary of loughall massacre

Like you dont see anyone crying,that wasnt a fair fight?

My point is I was lied to in the history books I read at school, where it was all one sided republicanism.
In fact it was a local in Solohedbeg who also also said it was not a fair fight.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hVBZKNBbgigJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/soloheadbeg-wicked-beginning-of-the-war-of-independence-1.3742421+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

But let's not píss on a Republican myth that's the unwritten rule isn't it?

SF are great at spinning history to suit thier ends, it is a deleicate balance they play. Avoid recent history and play up to the further back stuff.

--

Leo has a picture of Collins behind him in the Dail.
I noticed Mary Lou has a picture of Countess Markievicz in her house (skype interview on telly).
The major difference is Mary Lou could route out rogue Republicans associated with SF.
Leo does not have that option as they are long since dead from his party.

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

O'Broin and MLMD don't give the impression that those less fortunate than them are beneath them. That is why Leo and Eoghan get the 'posh boys' nicknames.

Ah Francie has spoke as to why they get the posh boys title.

Case closed, Francie knows all the ins and outs of why people are called things and why SF supporters call them that.

We can't question his knowledge, ever.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I was just about to say this. The irony is the SF hardcore were against these 'types'.
But they now realise it is part of the slow 'gentrification of SF' make it easier to sell to middle ground, and go for the female vote. No smoking guns try and leave them in the background

Sounds great. We need SF to become more mainstream and popular. It will open the door for the SD's and others and make voting for the lesser worse crooked civil war party a thing of the past.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

O'Broin and MLMD don't give the impression that those less fortunate than them are beneath them. That is why Leo and Eoghan get the 'posh boys' nicknames.

Ok so Leo chose the medical profession because he does not care about those who are beneath him? :rolleyes:

MLMD - is a political opportunistic who jumped ship from FF to further her career.

O'Brion - you will have to fill me in on his background and how he got 'turned'.