Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

My point is I was lied to in the history books I read at school, where it was all one sided republicanism.
In fact it was a local in Solohedbeg who also also said it was not a fair fight.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:hVBZKNBbgigJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/soloheadbeg-wicked-beginning-of-the-war-of-independence-1.3742421+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

But let's not píss on a Republican myth that's the unwritten rule isn't it?

I'm in my late 50's and Soloheadbeag was relayed to me as a factual account of what happened when I was at school.

Did you have a particularly Republican minded teacher?
One of mine was a FG county councillor, until he died he was a fabled local historian.

The point: Sure there were bad teachers who couldn't stay neutral or impartial, but I don't think there was any particular 'republican' slant to the curriculum.

Would welcome seeing examples of it, if you have any.

TheCitizen

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Rubbish. I have already mentioned the Social Welfare powers SF gave away to WM twice now.
Plus SF brought down stormont over the pretense of an Irish act.
Also SF could have entered WM to stop Brexit but chose not to - mandate etc.
A special Ad Fheis could have sorted it out.

So many lies in so little words. SF could not have stopped Brexit whther they took the seats in Westminster or not, don't be ridiculous. What Social Welfare powers did SF give away to Westminster, what are you talking about?

Stormont fell into disrepute over the scandals involving the DUP. It's back up and running again but you'll find ways to attack SF for when it's up and running or when it isn't, nothing new there.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Is there a housing crisis in NI tell me? Who has the most homeless? Plus are those unfortunates living in hotels in the ROI liable to be attacked and murdered by republicans - in a row or are they safe?

Homeless people in Northern Ireland are being attacked by Republicans? What are you blathering about now?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Of course they are which is why SF target the Celtic top wearing working class the younger the better. Plenty of times SF voters claimed the IRA stuff dodgy Republicanism is all ancient history. You only have to go back slighly more than a decade. Then the real irony is SF are the first in the queue for any Republican commemoration from any era! A very selective memory is had it seems!

So the younger voters who voted SF are all Celtic top wearing kids from council estates now are they?

Should they not commemorate Republicanism from the past? Or is it only SF that shouldn't do it?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is a certain type of voter under educated, probably malnourished, more than likely from a single parent family. Also with a few generations of unemployment and likely criminality in the family. Plus they are likely not to like black people or the immigrants taking thier jobs.
That is the only type of area Mark Ward or AOS would have being elected in.

"Malnourished, under educated, likely to be from single parent families", this is what makes up the 25% vote share that SF got in the last election according to this character.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

OK scandals - thier are financial scandals many political parties have them in the world. Or martial scandals. I would not vote for those individuals involved in financial scandals by the way (Maria Bailey not in my constituency).
SF members are on a different level - bank robbery, murder, spying on ministers in the dail, cover up of murder. Has anyone associated with Leo Varadkar being found with a stun gun for example?

"Bank robbers, murderers etc.", this is 2020, the GFA has been in existence for over 20 years. Are you going to keep talking about things that happened decades ago? Seems like you are and maybe it resonates with some older people who vote FG or FF and would never vote SF anyway.

It doesn't appear to resonate with younger voters and in your frustration you label them "malnourished, under educated etc etc." Make sure you keep telling them exactly what you really thing of them....go ahead....you tell 'em.....

Your anger is getting the better of you and you're showing your true colours now alright. How dare these young voters and other voters disagree with the FFG groupthink and make their minds up on who they want to vote for themselves.

gormdubhgorm

Bowie wrote: »

Sounds great. We need SF to become more mainstream and popular. It will open the door for the SD's and others and make voting for the lesser worse crooked civil war party a thing of the past.

Yeah, but it is a false door, a facade. The real power seems to be in the unelected members of SF behind the facade. Otherwise the SF swamp would be drained much quicker.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ok so Leo chose the medical profession because he does not care about those who are beneath him? :rolleyes:

Why would choosing a career as a Doctor (and then giving it up BTW) exclude you from being a snob and superior?

MLMD - is a political opportunistic who jumped ship from FF to further her career.

I find this hilarious...we want you to change your views...but only in the direction I want you to.

And just because you are from a wealthy background doesn't mean you have to be 'turned' or vice versa.

What kind of nonsense is that?

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ok so Leo chose the medical profession because he does not care about those who are beneath him? :rolleyes:

MLMD - is a political opportunistic who jumped ship from FF to further her career.

O'Brion - you will have to fill me in on his background and how he got 'turned'.

So is Leo still a working doctor? Was he not a paid Councillor prior to serving his time to be qualified? Has he ever worked as a qualified doctor?
FYI: you could have claimed he joined politics because he cared for people...but you missed that and well, Fine Gael...

MLMD left one the then largest parties in the country to join a then 5% or so polling party for political opportunism?

It was FG 'turned' many of the electorate

TheCitizen

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I was just about to say this. The irony is the SF hardcore were against these 'types'.
But they now realise it is part of the slow 'gentrification of SF' make it easier to sell to middle ground, and go for the female vote. No smoking guns try and leave them in the background

Yes and you'd prefer them to not appeal to female voters or middle ground voters, of course you would.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

So is Leo still a working doctor? Was he not a paid Councillor prior to serving his time to be qualified? Has he ever worked as a qualified doctor?
FYI: you could have claimed he joined politics because he cared for people...but you missed that and well, Fine Gael...

MLMD left one the then largest parties in the country to join a then 5% or so polling party for political opportunism?

It was FG 'turned' many of the electorate

If Mary Lou was offered the top job at Labour she would be at Labour now


She jumped from FF because she felt she wouldnt get to top quick enough, looked around and seen which party was the easiest to get to the top. Slim picking in SF to replace Gerry....

Fair play to her by the way,

FrancieBrady

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yes and you'd prefer them to not appeal to female voters or middle ground voters, of course you would.

No more than the article MarkODaly posted...'first you have to portray anything and everything they do as 'sinister'.

It never gets old to see people spin themselves in contradictions trying to do this.

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If Mary Lou was offered the top job at Labour she would be at Labour now


She jumped from FF because she felt she wouldnt get to top quick enough, looked around and seen which party was the easiest to get to the top. Slim picking in SF to replace Gerry....

Lots of politicians switch parties. Michael D Higgins was originally in Fianna Fail. SF are and have been departing from what they used to be when connected to the PIRA. You still pretend they aren't when it suits you and then have a go at Mary Lou McDonald for originally being in another political party.

You still never told us who you vote for yourself?

Shefwedfan

TheCitizen wrote: »

Lots of politicians switch parties. Michael D Higgins was originally in Fianna Fail. SF are and have been departing from what they used to be when connected to the PIRA. You still pretend they aren't when it suits you and then have a go at Mary Lou McDonald for originally being in another political party.

You still never told us who you vote for yourself?

I am not having a go at MLM, I have always been very complimentary about her, the rabble she has to drag around with her is the problem. As you seen her having to deal with the "Up da Ra" comment on LLS you could see she had to do what SF told her....not what she wanted to say herself



SF haven't departed from the PIRA. Don't make me laugh....


Who I vote for? guess :p:p

gormdubhgorm

TheCitizen wrote: »

So many lies in so little words. SF could not have stopped Brexit whther they took the seats in Westminster or not, don't be ridiculous. What Social Welfare powers did SF give away to Westminster, what are you talking about?

Did you watch the news on Brexit at all and how the DUP held the balance of power in WM because of SF's absence.

It was in the post you claimed was rambling. Obviously SF hub is busy you can only read the short ones?

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3Kdvi9pOC4gJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-under-fire-over-welfare-cuts-move-1.2435441+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

Stormont fell into disrepute over the scandals involving the DUP. It's back up and running again but you'll find ways to attack SF for when it's up and running or when it isn't, nothing new there.

Again not completely true. SF wanted to bring in an Irish act just on wind up for the DUP . Which is ironic considering. The NI leader of SF has no Irish! As do many in SF it is lipservice for many of them.

Homeless people in Northern Ireland are being attacked by Republicans? What are you blathering about now?

Sorry you think about it. It obviously went over your head like a bullet.
Republicanism is far more of threat to a person's safety than it is for those who have to live in hotels. IMO.

So the younger voters who voted SF are all Celtic top wearing kids from council estates now are they?

The majority are and they have no problem pretending a British club (across the water) whose taxes go to Queen is Irish. Celtic play up on this to make the £££££

Should they not commemorate Republicanism from the past? Or is it only SF that shouldn't do it?

SF love pantomime they play it up and are first in the queue if any mention of recent republicanism is mentioned - it is careful choice of words. Deflect deny and so on.

Sure even when Michelle O'Neill and Gerry Kelly appeared in front of the cameras to gently chide Saoradh for trying to kill them as it was the 'no strategy' was a typical odd republican type of wording. 'Irish Republican Project'

"Malnourished, under educated, likely to be from single parent families", this is what makes up the 25% vote share that SF got in the last election according to this character.

Not all but the core of the 'new' SF vote. People who would not normally vote.

"Bank robbers, murderers etc.", this is 2020, the GFA has been in existence for over 20 years. Are you going to keep talking about things that happened decades ago? Seems like you are and maybe it resonates with some older people who vote FG or FF and would never vote SF anyway.

It doesn't appear to resonate with younger voters and in your frustration you label them "malnourished, under educated etc etc." Make sure you keep telling them exactly what you really thing of them....go ahead....you tell 'em.....

Your anger is getting the better of you and you're showing your true colours now alright. How dare these young voters and other voters disagree with the FFG groupthink and make their minds up on who they want to vote for themselves.

All of the articles I posted in recent posts are LESS than 20 years. I am not angry there is not a baseball bat nor stun gun in my vicinity.

As I said younger voters are easier to cod. It is an old populist political trick.
The younger the better. They have not heard and seen it all before.

gormdubhgorm

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yes and you'd prefer them to not appeal to female voters or middle ground voters, of course you would.

If cleaned up and behaved like ordinary decent human beings, instead of covering up murder and so on I would have zero problem with them. Get rid of the flag waving myopic yahoos and so on.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm in my late 50's and Soloheadbeag was relayed to me as a factual account of what happened when I was at school.

Did you have a particularly Republican minded teacher?
One of mine was a FG county councillor, until he died he was a fabled local historian.

The point: Sure there were bad teachers who couldn't stay neutral or impartial, but I don't think there was any particular 'republican' slant to the curriculum.

Would welcome seeing examples of it, if you have any.

No sample unfortunately he was actually a good teacher - not overtly Republican. But on reflection I felt the negative aspect of Republicanism was glossed over. Covered the Land Act's 1870's until 1960's Ireland.
Plus he wrote the textbook!

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am not having a go at MLM, I have always been very complimentary about her, the rabble she has to drag around with her is the problem. As you seen her having to deal with the "Up da Ra" comment on LLS you could see she had to do what SF told her....not what she wanted to say herself

Such mealy mouthed nonsense.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SF haven't departed from the PIRA. Don't make me laugh....

The PIRA haven't been in action for over 20 years. Time passes. They have departed from that era, of course they have.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Who I vote for? guess :p:p

That sort of silliness doesn't surprise me given your other contributions.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah, but it is a false door, a facade. The real power seems to be in the unelected members of SF behind the facade. Otherwise the SF swamp would be drained much quicker.

Are you suggesting a political party might be saying things just to get elected? Unheard of, but you could be right
As it is with every party. I wouldn't call it a swamp. The times change as should a party to reflect that. SF still have 'RA heads and that's to be expected. That's part of who they are. Everybody is aware of that.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If Mary Lou was offered the top job at Labour she would be at Labour now


She jumped from FF because she felt she wouldnt get to top quick enough, looked around and seen which party was the easiest to get to the top. Slim picking in SF to replace Gerry....

Fair play to her by the way,

I don't know what you are trying to say. Why do you think MLMD would join Labour?
Seems to me her politics changed and so she acted on that. Seems like a normal action to me.
You do realise the electorate don't vote for the same parties in the same numbers in every election? This suggests peoples interests and concerns change and they adapt their politics to suit.
You could be right of course but that's a very cynical attitude. Back in the old days were people only joining FF/FG for the chance at getting into government? I'd like to think not but based on their records I can't see why anyone would sign up to them.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am not having a go at MLM, I have always been very complimentary about her, the rabble she has to drag around with her is the problem. As you seen her having to deal with the "Up da Ra" comment on LLS you could see she had to do what SF told her....not what she wanted to say herself



SF haven't departed from the PIRA. Don't make me laugh....


Who I vote for? guess :p:p

More blind guff trying to pass as comment.
At least give over pretending you don't want every discussion to lead to the IRA.

James Brown

TheCitizen wrote: »

Such mealy mouthed nonsense.


The PIRA haven't been in action for over 20 years. Time passes. They have departed from that era, of course they have.




That sort of silliness doesn't surprise me given your other contributions.

You'll find folk like to let a discussion drop when it's not going as they'd like.

Shefwedfan

TheCitizen wrote: »

Such mealy mouthed nonsense.

The PIRA haven't been in action for over 20 years. Time passes. They have departed from that era, of course they have.

That sort of silliness doesn't surprise me given your other contributions.

In 2007 they kicked a lad in Monaghan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Paul_Quinn


According to the police in North and Garda they still existL https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ira-army-council-retains-oversight-of-sinn-fein-say-police-38671774.html


So what is this abotu 20 years?


In regards to who I voted for, well so far I have had some many accusations thrown at me I am not sure anymore. Including yourself accusing me of FG. The rest of the crowd here threw similar accusations and plenty of post on here about who I voted for. Just find them :eek:

Not sure what the big deal is, we are discussing SF on a SF thread....

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

No sample unfortunately he was actually a good teacher - not overtly Republican. But on reflection I felt the negative aspect of Republicanism was glossed over. Covered the Land Act's 1870's until 1960's Ireland.
Plus he wrote the textbook!

So a subjective opinion.
The curriculum was Irish orientated but I object to notions of brain washing.
Our history is transparent for all to see if they want to.
Problem is, as these threads show there is no consensus

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

More blind guff trying to pass as comment.
At least give over pretending you don't want every discussion to lead to the IRA.

Nobody asked you to comment....you more than welcome to ignore

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So a subjective opinion.
The curriculum was Irish orientated but I object to notions of brain washing.
Our history is transparent for all to see if they want to.
Problem is, as these threads show there is no consensus

Ah there definitely was brainwashing particularly in the two/
three decades after Irish independence. Talk of an 'Irish race' the Tailteann games and so on.
That was the start of it.

In fact I feel like a bit of an eejit that I was blind to it, thinking it is all great against evil British oppressors. When in reality it was far from one sided. Or as simple as them v us.

Plus nothing was 'won' at best you could call it a draw.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Nobody asked you to comment....you more than welcome to ignore

Snap.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

In 2007 they kicked a lad in Monaghan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Paul_Quinn


According to the police in North and Garda they still existL https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ira-army-council-retains-oversight-of-sinn-fein-say-police-38671774.html


So what is this abotu 20 years?


In regards to who I voted for, well so far I have had some many accusations thrown at me I am not sure anymore. Including yourself accusing me of FG. The rest of the crowd here threw similar accusations and plenty of post on here about who I voted for. Just find them :eek:

Not sure what the big deal is, we are discussing SF on a SF thread....

Do you know who in SF kicked him to death? We are seemingly talking about SF here.
FYI: The thread is about SF currently and their presence or lack there of.
You could post about SF and their policies and any talks re the next government. Just a suggestion. Seeing as you allegedly like MLMD.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

Do you know who in SF kicked him to death? We are seemingly talking about SF here.
FYI: The thread is about SF currently and their presence or lack there of.
You could post about SF and their policies and any talks re the next government. Just a suggestion. Seeing as you allegedly like MLMD.

I will refer back to the question yesterday when I asked you about what SF had done in the last 30 years in the South, specifically the South to get away from IRA



You mentioned the IRA, not me. So can't throw them out now when it doesn't suit.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ah there definitely was brainwashing particularly in the two/
three decades after Irish independence. Talk of an 'Irish race' the Tailteann games and so on.
That was the start of it.

In fact I feel like a bit of an eejit that I was blind to it, thinking it is all great against evil British oppressors. When in reality it was far from one sided. Or as simple as them v us.

Plus nothing was 'won' at best you could call it a draw.

Well, I would say that objectively, what the British Empire engaged in was in many ways oppression. There is absolutely no contesting that cold hard fact of history.

Oppression is always the prime sin...nobody asked them here to do that.

And yes, there are always two sides to a story. There are also very few nations (I can't think of one) who will give the oppressor much truck or sympathy as it matures in independence.

As we have seen, our political system hasn't matured, it still breaks along fault lines caused by that oppressive force...patitionism, republicanism, unionism, loyalism, civil war sides etc etc.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I will refer back to the question yesterday when I asked you about what SF had done in the last 30 years in the South, specifically the South to get away from IRA



You mentioned the IRA, not me. So can't throw them out now when it doesn't suit.

Not true.
You spoke on MLMD on the LLS and 'up the 'RA'. I answered your question and mentioned the IRA connection.
Then Gormdubh came in with his drunk history podcast and you chimed in on that.
I have responded to your last post were you state same, which you either ignored or missed, you have since lost all interest, happy to discuss the IRA, which is fine but don't try pass it as anything else but an out of context off thread 'RA rant.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, I would say that objectively, what the British Empire engaged in was in many ways oppression. There is absolutely no contesting that cold hard fact of history.

Oppression is always the prime sin...nobody asked them here to do that.

And yes, there are always two sides to a story. There are also very few nations (I can't think of one) who will give the oppressor much truck or sympathy as it matures in independence.

As we have seen, our political system hasn't matured, it still breaks along fault lines caused by that oppressive force...patitionism, republicanism, unionism, loyalism, civil war sides etc etc.

True but that is only looking at things to the prism of recent history. If you go back to Brian Boru's time surely a lot of Kings in Ireland would have viewed him as the opressor taking over Leinster and the High King of Meath. And even going into Connacht. Yet these days he is viewed as a real Gael who had to fight against the Irish traitors and the Vikings.
It all depends on how it is spun and it normally spun these days as Irish v the invaders.
Personally I think it is a bit presumptuous that there should be a United Ireland based purely on the fact that it geographically one Island.
The British settlers did thier plantation work well and 400 years later there are still descendants who feel British.

All the 'Brits out' stuff seems more than silly considering they are settled there for 400 years now. Plus why stop with asking for the Brits out? Surely there should be some suspicion attached to those with Norman names on the island of Ireland? Or Wynne and Walsh they are Welsh names. Gould is an Anglo-Saxon/Viking name. Mitchell has Norman French origins.

There is a Gould, Wynne and Mitchell in SF for instance - Saxons, Welsh and Norman French out?

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

Not true.
You spoke on MLMD on the LLS and 'up the 'RA'. I answered your question and mentioned the IRA connection.
Then Gormdubh came in with his drunk history podcast and you chimed in on that.
I have responded to your last post were you state same, which you either ignored or missed, you have since lost all interest, happy to discuss the IRA, which is fine but don't try pass it as anything else but an out of context off thread 'RA rant.

If you say so, fact is I asked about what they have done in 30 years and your post mentioned IRA....can’t complain now when people bring IRA into conversation....you do it yourself

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

True but that is only looking at things to the prism of recent history. If you go back to Brian Boru's time surely a lot of Kings in Ireland would have viewed him as the opressor taking over Leinster and the High King of Meath. And even going into Connacht. Yet these days he is viewed as a real Gael who had to fight against the Irish traitors and the Vikings.
It all depends on how it is spun and it normally spun these days as Irish v the invaders.
Personally I think it is a bit presumptuous that there should be a United Ireland based purely on the fact that it geographically one Island.
The British settlers did thier plantation work well and 400 years later there are still descendants who feel British.

All the 'Brits out' stuff seems more than silly considering they are settled there for 400 years now. Plus why stop with asking for the Brits out? Surely there should be some suspicion attached to those with Norman names on the island of Ireland? Or Wynne and Walsh they are Welsh names. Gould is an Anglo-Saxon/Viking name. Mitchell has Norman French origins.

There is a Gould, Wynne and Mitchell in SF for instance - Saxons, Welsh and Norman French out?

'BRITS OUT' never referred to anything but the British State and Army.

Sorry, I cannot take anyone seriously who portrays that slogan as anything else.
And please, don't start pointing at individual incidences of ignoramuses and bigots.
It was never, to my knowledge of history, a hatred or dislike of British people or a xenophobic comment..

gormdubhgorm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you say so, fact is I asked about what they have done in 30 years and your post mentioned IRA....can’t complain now when people bring IRA into conversation....you do it yourself

The catchy tune gets stuck in fairness oh ah etc.
I notice a lot of posters of the SF leaning use FFG. Is that really to save time typing?
Or is it because they like to pretend the parties is the same and manufacture a against 'them' a them v us?
Because I would find SF/IRA a pain in the hole to keep typing.
I mean is SF really a change? they seem to have a lot old rehashed rhetoric from FF 1930's manifestos to me.