Is it just me or have SF vanished?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I doubt you'll be giving them a vote. That's one of the benefits of living in a democracy. Nobody is forcing you. Who you would have voted for after the conflicts that brought about the Republic I don't know.

Democracy? SF is a party who only knows the meaning of the word when it suits. For a real Democracy to thrive there has to be adherance to the rule of law across the board not just when it suits.
SF is a party who harbored a pedophile within its ranks for decades. Liam Adams did this pedophile suffer a fate like Dennis Donaldson or even a kneecapping like drug dealers receive from Republicans?
No, Liam Adams was protected by virtue of who his brother was. In the same manner the way the rapist of Maria Cahill is protected, or the murderers of Paul Quinn, or the individuals who robbed Northern Bank and so on.


It was not the first time SF had an uneasy relationship with Republican peadophiles/rapists.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WuU-WgKBTiAJ:https://gript.ie/sinn-fein-sex-abuse/+&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie


SF have the neck to go about the 'struggle', what about those who have the constant 'struggle' with sleepless nights because they cannot get justice for murder of thier loved ones. Or those who have to suffer the truma of rape and just shrug it off an move on.

To me it is psychopathic in it's attitude. Justice is only granted to those the Republican cause deem worthy. Bloody Sunday 1972 used as propaganda by SF they wanted justice then. For decades pressure was put on for a proper inquiry. Decades! But when light is shone on thier own house they run and hide, especially very recent Republican criminality. Deflect and deny and hope enough years pass for people to forget.

You have fellas topping the poll in a GE who clearly do not respect the rule of law in the state they purport to represent. It could only happen in a working class area where the voters do not give a f**k about the rule of law.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aengus_%C3%93_Snodaigh

Yet this is the mindset you seem to view as acceptable. Remember this is a fella whose family do not respect the rule of law in the ROI.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:F0u2PcYqdGEJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wife-of-sf-deputy-among-three-fined-for-public-order-offences-1.405803+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HFyHRsg1OyEJ:https://magill.ie/archive/aengus-o-snodaigh-pure-snow+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

You seem to have the SF ability to compartmentalise actions and find a justification for them. From murder, right down to spying and robbery.
How that you say that a party is for democracy when it does not respect the rule of the state they purport to represent.


But of course in the SF mindset thier 25% (535,595 pop vote) mandate is a mandate for change. That is the mantra. A mandate which is a lot smaller than the vote for those parties who said they would not go into government with SF pre election

FG 22.2%.(455,584 pop vote) FF 20.9% (484,320 pop vote)
Labour 4.4% (95,588 pop vote)

That is 535,595 (SF) v 1,035,492‬ (FF/FG/Labour).

So who really has the mandate. I don't know how you can equate SF to democracy when they play hard and fast with it's meaning.
They do not respect the rule of law which is a large part of the reason people voted for parties which said they would not go into government with SF.

Yet SF want to seem to crow about thier mandate of 535,595 but do not accept the mandate of 1,035,492 that clearly does not view them as fit for government.

So let's not play games here and pretend that SF accept democracy they have a disdain for the law of the land in the ROI.

Nor do they accept the SCC (not because of the good work it does in getting drug dealers - but because a lot of unelected comrádaí have a bad history with it)

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Democracy? SF is a party who only knows the meaning of the word when it suits. For a real Democracy to thrive there has to be adherance to the rule of law across the board not just when it suits.
SF is a party who harbored a pedophile within its ranks for decades. Liam Adams did this pedophile suffer a fate like Dennis Donaldson or even a kneecapping like drug dealers receive from Republicans?
No, Liam Adams was protected by virtue of who his brother was. In the same manner the way the rapist of Maria Cahill is protected, or the murderers of Paul Quinn, or the individuals who robbed Northern Bank and so on.

SF have the neck to go about the 'struggle', what about those who have the constant 'struggle' with sleepless nights because they cannot get justice for murder of thier loved ones. Or those who have to suffer the truma of rape and just shrug it off an move on.

To me it is psychopathic in it's attitude. Justice is only granted to those the Republican cause deem worthy. Bloody Sunday 1972 used as propaganda by SF they wanted justice then. For decades pressure was put on for a proper inquiry. Decades! But when light is shone on thier own house they run and hide, especially very recent Republican criminality. Deflect and deny and hope enough years pass for people to forget.

You have fellas topping the poll in a GE who clearly do not respect the rule of law in the state they purport to represent.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aengus_%C3%93_Snodaigh

Yet this is the mindset you seem to view as acceptable. Remember this is a fella whose family do not respect the rule of law in the ROI.

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:F0u2PcYqdGEJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wife-of-sf-deputy-among-three-fined-for-public-order-offences-1.405803+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HFyHRsg1OyEJ:https://magill.ie/archive/aengus-o-snodaigh-pure-snow+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

You seem to have the SF ability to compartmentalise actions and find a justification for them. From murder, right down to spying and robbery.
How that you say that a party is for democracy when it does not respect the rule of the state they purport to represent.

But of course in the SF mindset thier 25% (535,595 pop vote) mandate is a mandate for change. That is the mantra. A mandate which is a lot smaller than the vote for those parties who said they wouldnot go into government with SF pre election

FG 22.2%.(455,584 pop vote) FF 20.9% (484,320 pop vote)
Labour 4.4% (95,588 pop vote)

That is 535,595 (SF) v 1,035,492‬ (FF/FG/Labour).

So who really has the mandate. I don't know how you can equate SF to democracy when they play hard and fast with it's meaning.
They do not respect the rule of law which is a large part of the reason people voted for parties which said they would not go into government with SF.

Yet SF want to seem to crow about thier mandate of 535,595 but do not accept the mandate of 1,035,492 that clearly does not view them as fit for government.

So let's not play games here and pretend that SF accept democracy they have a disdain for the law of the land in the ROI.

Nor do they accept the SCC (not because of the good work it does in getting drug dealers - but because a lot of unelected comrádaí have a bad history with it)

While Enda and Michael were getting their pics taken on the steps of the Dáíl with somebody who alleged she had been abused by a SF member (who at the end of the day, was fully prepared to go into a court and defend himself as is his democratic right) both of them were leaders of parties who had fought Louise O'Keefe all the way to the European Court.
Have a look at the attempt to get the Ceann Comhairle to confront and address his support for a 'convicted abuser' abuser and various other blind eyes that were turned over the years.
The fact is, not a single party nor most of the organisations or institutions of this country, did not have issues with dealing with abuse within. Sinn Fein were no different and Adams addressed what happened with his brother.

It's nothing to be proud off, and I can't think of anyone who excused it.

I see you have convicted the man alleged in the Mairia Cahill case, which says more about your attitude to democracy here.


Look...just don't vote for them...vote for whatever paragons of 'democracy' you can find. You'll be happier.

smurgen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Healy Rae are robbing the country blind....the fact they have no manifesto or agenda every 5 years and still get voted in show we have issues with our system.

Same with Leo the 5th,Simon the 11th,Simon the 15th, Eoghan the 8th.Major issues with our system showing these four are still in the driving seat.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

While Enda and Michael were getting their pics taken on the steps of the Dáíl with somebody who alleged she had been abused by a SF member (who at the end of the day, was fully prepared to go into a court and defend himself as is his democratic right) both of them were leaders of parties who had fought Louise O'Keefe all the way to the European Court.
Have a look at the attempt to get the Ceann Comhairle to confront and address his support for a 'convicted abuser' abuser and various other blind eyes that were turned over the years.
The fact is, not a single party nor most of the organisations or institutions of this country, did not have issues with dealing with abuse within. Sinn Fein were no different and Adams addressed what happened with his brother.

It's nothing to be proud off, and I can't think of anyone who excused it.

I see you have convicted the man alleged in the Mairia Cahill case, which says more about your attitude to democracy here.


Look...just don't vote for them...vote for whatever paragons of 'democracy' you can find. You'll be happier.

Well maybe you are like Mary Lou can look her own children in the eye and have a good night's sleep. Maybe like her you can play tricks on your mind to justify such actions all in the name of green postboxes. In the furtherance of the 'struggle' for the postbox colour change - Republicans 'with pull' do not have to adhere to the rule of law.
Their behavior is excused - rape, murder, tax evasion (Slab Murphy) it does not matter - if they 'have pull' in republican circles

But when Mary Lou hears something she does not like 'as a woman' from a new inconsequential SF member she is given 'the OK' to act on it - Paddy Holohan.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/beyond-offensive-sinn-fein-suspends-paddy-holohan-from-party-after-controversial-comments-38870583.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:YkdrJqi1hP4J:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-upset-by-sf-councillor-s-vile-comments-1.4147745+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

Yet she cannot act in the far more serious cases of Maria Cahill, Paul Quinn and so on. Wouldn't you think Mary Lou would be more offended by the Paul Quinn case (as a mother) or the Maria Cahill case (as a woman) ????

That to me speaks volumes that there are 'strong republican families' within the protection of SF can have a free hand and can do as they wish with impunity.
And Mary Lou only gets 'the OK' to act if that person is expendable, and outside these circles

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well maybe you are like Mary Lou can look her own children in the eye and have a good night's sleep. Maybe like her you can play tricks on your mind to justify such actions all in the name of green postboxes. In the furtherance of the 'struggle' for the postbox colour change - Republicans with pull do not have to adhere to the rule of law.
Their behavior is excused - rape, murder, tax evasion (Slab Murphy) it does not matter - if they have pull in republican circles

But when Mary Lou hears something she does not like 'as a woman' from a now inconsequential SF member she is given the OK to act - Paddy Holohan.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/beyond-offensive-sinn-fein-suspends-paddy-holohan-from-party-after-controversial-comments-38870583.html

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:YkdrJqi1hP4J:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-upset-by-sf-councillor-s-vile-comments-1.4147745+&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

Yet she cannot act in the far more serious cases of Maria Cahill, Paul Quinn and so on. Wouldn't you think Mary Lou would be more offended by the Paul Quinn case (as a mother) or the Maria Cahill case (as a woman)

That to me speaks volumes that there are 'strong republican families' within the protection of SF can have a free hand and can do as they wish with immunity.
And Mary Lou only gets 'the OK' to act if that person is expendable, and outside these circles

What do you want her to do in the Mairia Cahill case?

What do you want her to do in the Paul Quinn case, in which SF or the IRA were not involved according to the Monitoring Commission and the PSNI?
Again, as soon as it served it's political and electoral purpose both the above cases were dropped like hot potatoes by FF and FG.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What do you want her to do in the Mairia Cahill case?

What do you want her to do in the Paul Quinn case, in which SF or the IRA were not involved according to the Monitoring Commission and the PSNI?
Again, as soon as it served it's political and electoral purpose both the above cases were dropped like hot potatoes by FF and FG.

What do I want her do in Maria Cahill case and Paul Quinn case?. I want her to get in contact with her SF colleagues in NI come to consensus that it is about time the party ridded itself of lawlessnes. Give the Quinn family justice on a humnan level the same for Maria Cahill.

The individuals are known in Republican circles and local areas but they are being protected.
SF could move the process forward but people are 'not encouraged' to come forward by SF republicans.

Doing so would be clear signal to the ordinary decent voter in the ROI, that SF are finally really trying. Instead the SF tactic is wait until those voters die off, and people forget?

If SF really wanted to make a real jump in the polls and enter government they would sort such issues out. And make an honest statement under parliamentary privilege in the Dail. Finally removing the mask once and for all. From top to bottom. Not just the low hanging fruit like Paddy Holohan.

Shefwedfan

Are you having a laugh the IRA was no involved in Paul Quinn....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/who-was-paul-quinn-and-why-has-his-murder-become-an-election-issue-1.4162636

Everyone has linked the IRA to him. Even SF came out with some bulls**t excuse that he was a criminal and then done a half assed apology when it blew up in their face. Even MLM told a pile of lies to try cover it up

Maybe, just maybe SF could tell the truth for once.....covering up for the murder and then trying a smear campaign against a young dead person. Standard SF and IRA response

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What do I want her do in Maria Cahill case and Paul Quinn case?. I want her to get in contact with her SF colleagues in NI come to consensus that it is about time the party ridded itself of lawlessnes. Give the Quinn family justice on a humnan level the same for Maria Cahill.

The individuals are known in Republican circles and local areas but they are being protected.

The PSNI know who they are too and the Gardai. They must do to rule out IRA involvement.

SF could move the process forward but people are 'not encouraged' to come forward by SF republicans.

Doing so would be clear signal to the ordinary decent voter in the ROI, that SF are finally really trying. Instead the SF tactic is wait until those voters die off and people forget?

If SF really wanted to make a real jump in the polls and enter government they would sort such issues out. And make an honest statement under parliamentary privilege in the Dail. Finally removing the mask once and for all. From top to bottom. Not just the low hanging fruit like Paddy Holohan.

In the Mairia Cahill case solicitors for the defendants produced letters were members of SF (the 4 other defendants) had advised Cahill to go to the police.

She wouldn't because she didn't trust the police at that time.

Believe it or not (why this is a surprise to anyone who says they know what they are talking about) trust has had to be built in the police from the ground up since the GFA and that is going to take time. SF attending the PSNI event some time back is a sign of the growing confidence in the nationalist community that they finally have a police force they can trust. You cannot fake 'trust'.

Shefwedfan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If SF really wanted to make a real jump in the polls and enter government they would sort such issues out. And make an honest statement under parliamentary privilege in the Dail. Finally removing the mask once and for all. From top to bottom. Not just the low hanging fruit like Paddy Holohan.

Question I would have is how in the first place does the likes of Paddy Holohan, Voilet Anne etc get into positions in SF? like what sort of vetting process goes on?

armaghlad

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Are you having a laugh the IRA was no involved in Paul Quinn....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/who-was-paul-quinn-and-why-has-his-murder-become-an-election-issue-1.4162636

Everyone has linked the IRA to him. Even SF came out with some bulls**t excuse that he was a criminal and then done a half assed apology when it blew up in their face. Even MLM told a pile of lies to try cover it up

Maybe, just maybe SF could tell the truth for once.....covering up for the murder and then trying a smear campaign against a young dead person. Standard SF and IRA response

Oh I’m sure you’re really concerned about Paul Quinn’s death

Ballso

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Question I would have is how in the first place does the likes of Paddy Holohan, Voilet Anne etc get into positions in SF? like what sort of vetting process goes on?

The lads they have in now are the A & B team, can you imagine the quality of candidates they'll have next go round when theyve to pull in the C & D listers

Shefwedfan

Ballso wrote: »

The lads they have in now are the A & B team, can you imagine the quality of candidates they'll have next go round when theyve to pull in the C & D listers

Exactly, everyone saying they should run more candidates. Who are the more candidates?

Shefwedfan

armaghlad wrote: »

Oh I’m sure you’re really concerned about Paul Quinn’s death

Maybe explain this comment?

Edgware

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Exactly, everyone saying they should run more candidates. Who are the more candidates?

McDonald wouldnt allow a second candidate in case she'd lose her seat or not get the poll topper title to satisfy her ego. She can sit on her big surplus for the next 5 years

JohnnyFlash

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Maybe explain this comment?

The narrative is as follows:

You don’t actually care about his murder.

The establishment parties from the free state are using this as a political football to keep the good folks of SF down.

What happened was unfortunate, but he wasn’t a good boy was Paul.

It’s time to move on and forget these things. Look what’s happening with x issue.

You can also apply this line of argument to Adams sending his kiddy fiddling brother over the border, Maria Cahill, Ó Snodaigh’s election posters being found in a car containing 5 members of the provos.

Nothing to see here - move on.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The narrative is as follows:

You don’t actually care about his murder.

The establishment parties from the free state are using this as a political football to keep the good folks of SF down.

What happened was unfortunate, but he wasn’t a good boy was Paul.

It’s time to move on and forget these things. Look what’s happening with x issue.

You can also apply this line of argument to Adams sending his kiddy fiddling brother over the border, Maria Cahill, Ó Snodaigh’s election posters being found in a car containing 5 members of the provos.

Nothing to see here - move on.

There is also this blind spot among those who use yet another victim for political purposes.

IMC wrote:

The IMC said it had concluded that the IRA had not carried out the murder of 21-year-old Mr Quinn who died in hospital hours after being savagely beaten by a masked gang at an isolated farm house in Co. Monaghan last October.
We think that the attack on Paul Quinn was planned and carried out by local people and that it arose from local disputes.
Whatever the immediate reason for the killing certain aspects of these disputes go back some time and were not unconnected with continuing illegal activity.

Runaways

Edgware wrote: »

McDonald wouldnt allow a second candidate in case she'd lose her seat or not get the poll topper title to satisfy her ego. She can sit on her big surplus for the next 5 years

Just as Leo won’t allow a second election how many counts did it take for him to get returned
Was it 5?

That has to be a sting to His massive ego

No mandate Even in his own constituency

Shefwedfan

Runaways wrote: »

Just as Leo won’t allow a second election how many counts did it take for him to get returned
Was it 5?

That has to be a sting to His massive ego

No mandate Even in his own constituency

Nobody wants a second election, it will ciost 50 million and woukd be a disaster

Topgear on Dave

Runaways wrote: »

Just as Leo won’t allow a second election how many counts did it take for him to get returned
Was it 5?

That has to be a sting to His massive ego

No mandate Even in his own constituency

How is he preventing a second election?

Has our system changed that all TDs now need to be elected on the first count? That could probably remove over half of them:pac:

armaghlad

armaghlad wrote: »

Oh I’m sure you’re really concerned about Paul Quinn’s death

Indeed,nothing more telling than fact varadkar and martin dropped that family like a hot snot as soon as election was over



It was most telling of all,that FFG couldnt lay a glove on the shinners policywise in any election debate,so.had to resort to talking about some lad killed in a shed,yonks ago.......

the troubles are over with 1/4 of a century,personally as callous as it sounds,im more concerned with healthcare and housing issues and a refusal by FFG to sort them


(Should be said as i do think,his killers.should face type of justice though,whatever about killing people and troubles/crime,you wouldnt do what happened to him,to a cat)

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Nobody wants a second election, it will ciost 50 million and woukd be a disaster

Would be great ould craic though :pac:

Topgear on Dave

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Nobody wants a second election, it will ciost 50 million and woukd be a disaster

Its coming. Majority of TDs dont want to run the country or take any decisions.
Time for change

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Nobody wants a second election,

How do you know this?

Runaways

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Nobody wants a second election, it will ciost 50 million and woukd be a disaster

Fine Gael Don’t want a second election

It would be a disaster for them


Fixed your post for you

blanch152

Runaways wrote: »

Just as Leo won’t allow a second election how many counts did it take for him to get returned
Was it 5?

That has to be a sting to His massive ego

No mandate Even in his own constituency

Leo isn't preventing a second election. Nonsense from you, if the Dail wants a second election, elect someone to go to the Aras to dissolve the election. Any TD could probably do the job, even if half-assed, with the possible exception of your wan from Clare.

Every TD elected to the Dail has a mandate. If your party only has 35 seats, there are 125 others who can ignore your mandate.

Shefwedfan

Runaways wrote: »

Fine Gael Don’t want a second election

It would be a disaster for them


Fixed your post for you

We had all the regular's on here posting about how great the RedC poll was. So based on that FG will get 35% of the vote.....:P


I wouldn't bother fixing anyone post when you havent a clue what your talking about

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is also this blind spot among those who use yet another victim for political purposes.

If I remember correctly, both the IMC and the Irish government changed their stance within a week once further information became available and it was clear that IRA and other Sinn Fein sources were unfairly blackening the name of Paul Quinn.

It also begs the question, that even if true, why people on social media just dismiss Paul Quinn's murder as inconsequential because they support the belief that he somehow deserved it. Quite disgusting.

Shefwedfan

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Its coming. Majority of TDs dont want to run the country or take any decisions.
Time for change

What change?


SF have scrapped around get the current crop of "politicians" they have. Who else are they going to get?

plus the likes of Violet Anne wont get back in again. Nobody will vote for her so they will lose seats. Also the "manifesto' they have, wasn't worth the paper it was written on but nobody bothered really going over it, if another election it wuld be pulled to pieces. They have no answers. SF would dread another election



SF have done what exactly in the last 3 months to bring around "Change"?

Shefwedfan

Shefwedfan wrote: »

We had all the regular's on here posting about how great the RedC poll was. So based on that FG will get 35% of the vote.....:P


I wouldn't bother fixing anyone post when you havent a clue what your talking about

They potentially could get 35% of vote though?...likely be well above 30 anyway,and fair play to em....

but it looks as if that vote increase to come entirely at expense of FF and be same situation as now with forming a government,only rearranging deckchairs is what an election will do imo

Topgear on Dave

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What change?


SF have scrapped around get the current crop of "politicians" they have. Who else are they going to get?

plus the likes of Violet Anne wont get back in again. Nobody will vote for her so they will lose seats. Also the "manifesto' they have, wasn't worth the paper it was written on but nobody bothered really going over it, if another election it wuld be pulled to pieces. They have no answers. SF would dread another election



SF have done what exactly in the last 3 months to bring around "Change"?

Sorry not what I meant at all. I mean time to elect TDs with some interest in taking charge of the country.