Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I am fed up of mealy-mouthed statements from Sinn Fein people around Paul Quinn.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/independent-agency-says-ira-members-involved-in-paul-quinns-murder-38929663.html


(1) IRA members were involved in his killing and have been protected by Sinn Fein
(2) Sinn Fein public representatives made untrue public accusations of criminality against Paul Quinn and have refused to apologise.


No amount of word manipulation, selective quotation and perverse distraction can take away from that.



P.S. When the IMC said that they were "aware of no evidence linking the leadership of PIRA to the incident", that was very carefully worded and did not say what the IMC believed to be the case.

I quoted the IMC earlier...they said 'they had concluded' that the IRA were not involved.

Standard stuff after an investigation.

Did you find the updated change of this statement that you said existed?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is routine victim exploitation engaged in on here by the usual crew. They don't care about victims...they care about selective victims.

That is just the sickness of SF. That type of mentality. The fact is the whole ideology of violent republicanism is based on the cheapening of life itself.

Then the lives lost by Republicans in the name of Republicanism are given martyr status. They themselves become the exploited victims.

Meanwhile the innocent victims of of Republicanism - some of those you mentioned become an afterthought for Republicans. An irritant at best an afterthought at worst.
As I have said previously the covid19 crisis has shown people worldwide what is important in life health, real social freedom and happiness. The value of life and the value of an interconnected happy society.

SF Republicanism is stark contrast to this. It sees only a narrow viewpoint, and viewing life as cheap and a means to an end. It politicises everything the value of life, even the Irish language as well as society itself.
There are some fluent Irish speakers who refuse to wear the fainne for the very reason that they do not want to be associated with 'oh ah up the ra' SF.
How sad is that when an Irish speaker can no longer be proud of thier language, because of SF's association with it.

James Brown

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You rightly seem to have an issue with the RIC/B&T but at the same time you defend the IRA/SF.

The IRA killed loads of people not for equal rights/ democracy as you claim. They killed them because they didnt do what the IRA wanted. Do you disagree with this?

P.S. less of the personal comments.....

Why do you think I'm right to have an issue with the RIC/Tans?
Do I? Examples please.

Any reading I've done on the IRA would disagree with your opinion. They had a reason for coming into existence. you might not like it, and that's cool.
Probably. I doubt they killed anyone for doing what they wanted them to do. TBH chatting with you is like chatting with a 12 year old. I'm trying to explain to you that somebody killing somebody can be done for varying reasons. Some you might agree with, some you might not. It's not as straightforward as you seem to suggest.

Now, where are you on 'being in opposition is no good to anyone'?

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is just the sickness of SF that type of mentality the fact is the whole idelogy of violent republicanism is based on the cheapening of life itself.
Then the lives lost by Republicans in the name of Republicanism are given martyr status. They themselves become the exploited victims.
Meanwhile the innocent victims of of Republicansim - some of those you mentioned become an afterthought for Republicans. An irritant at best an afterthought at worst.
As I have said previously the covid19 crisis has shown people worldwide what is important in life health, real social freedom and happiness. The value of life and the value of an interconnected happy society.

SF Republicanism is stark contrast to this. It sees only a narrow viewpoint, and viewing life as cheap and a means to an end. It politicises everything the value of life, even the Irish language as well as society itself.

The hypocrisy is dripping off youse lads. Youse can't hold a conversation without dragging some poor murder victim into it. Happily the general public are of a higher standard.
If you want examples of life being cheap look at how FF/FG run Ireland and excuse away national crises.

I give SF a vote because they're our best chance at getting rid of FF/FG and they won't sell out the tax payer to vulture funds and billionaires. Simple as that. I've not planted any car bombs. Pretty sure neither has MLMD

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is just the sickness of SF. That type of mentality. The fact is the whole ideology of violent republicanism is based on the cheapening of life itself.

Then the lives lost by Republicans in the name of Republicanism are given martyr status. They themselves become the exploited victims.

Meanwhile the innocent victims of of Republicanism - some of those you mentioned become an afterthought for Republicans. An irritant at best an afterthought at worst.
As I have said previously the covid19 crisis has shown people worldwide what is important in life health, real social freedom and happiness. The value of life and the value of an interconnected happy society.

SF Republicanism is stark contrast to this. It sees only a narrow viewpoint, and viewing life as cheap and a means to an end. It politicises everything the value of life, even the Irish language as well as society itself.
There are some fluent Irish speakers who refuse to wear the fainne for the very reason that they do not want to be associated with 'oh ah up the ra' SF.
How sad is that when an Irish speaker can no longer be proud of thier language, because of SF's association with it.

Give us a few examples of these will you...until we see what the dasteredly republicans are denying us.

interconnected happy society.

gormdubhgorm

Bowie wrote: »

The hypocrisy is dripping off youse lads. Youse can't hold a conversation without dragging some poor murder victim into it. Happily the general public are of a higher standard.
If you want examples of life being cheap look at how FF/FG run Ireland and excuse away national crises.

I give SF a vote because they're our best chance at getting rid of FF/FG and they won't sell out the tax payer to vulture funds and billionaires. Simple as that. I've not planted any car bombs. Pretty sure neither has MLMD

Ok mention some murders/murder cover ups, rape cover ups, pedophile cover ups Leo, Enda, Micheal Martin, Brendan Howlin, Alan Kelly, Eamon Ryan, Rosin Shorthall have been involved in? Have any of thier party members being caught spying in the dail lately? Like O'Snodaigh's team of helpers?

Because if any has serious questions should be asked. Plus if anyone is doing the dragging of murder victims it is by SF hands or associates.

Of course in your mind we should accept it as normal.
The former leader of your party SF hid his Peado brother in Republican circles for years for example!
Another 'good republican' was done for tax evasion and jailed. Yet the same former leader described him as good republican!

All of those things should be met with a shrug of the shoulder should they?
Sure what is justice for a few murder or rape victims, between friends?
Sure doesn't every party do it?
Is that the attitude you want?

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

Why do you think I'm right to have an issue with the RIC/Tans?
Do I? Examples please.

Any reading I've done on the IRA would disagree with your opinion. They had a reason for coming into existence. you might not like it, and that's cool.
Probably. I doubt they killed anyone for doing what they wanted them to do. TBH chatting with you is like chatting with a 12 year old. I'm trying to explain to you that somebody killing somebody can be done for varying reasons. Some you might agree with, some you might not. It's not as straightforward as you seem to suggest.

Now, where are you on 'being in opposition is no good to anyone'?

Go back to the question and quit with your nonsense this time.

Do you think the IRA has a right to kill someone in 2007?

If you think that is ok then what reason do you think it is?

Do you think it is ok for a political party to
1. Cover up for the IRA
2. Try to discredit the person killed
3 the leader of party lie about comments made by a representative of the her party?

Thanks

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Give us a few examples of these will you...until we see what the dasteredly republicans are denying us.

Ask any of those in Republican circles who are seeking justice - Maria Cahill, the Quinn family etc
There is no ordinary human decency. Only SF justice when it sees fit - like how Denis Donaldson was dealt with. A really 'happy go lucky party gang' it is altogether. As long as you follow thier rules......
Not the rule of law...thier rules.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

The hypocrisy is dripping off youse lads. Youse can't hold a conversation without dragging some poor murder victim into it. Happily the general public are of a higher standard.
If you want examples of life being cheap look at how FF/FG run Ireland and excuse away national crises.

I give SF a vote because they're our best chance at getting rid of FF/FG and they won't sell out the tax payer to vulture funds and billionaires. Simple as that. I've not planted any car bombs. Pretty sure neither has MLMD

You mention the B&T and brought it into the conversation....

As per my example, the IRA murdering innocent people is the exact same as what the B&T done.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ask any of those in Republican circles who are seeking justice - Maria Cahill, the Quinn family etc
There is no ordinary human decency. Only SF justice when it sees fit like how Denis Donaldson was dealt. A really 'happy go lucky party' it is altogether. As long as you follow thier rules......
Not the rule of law...thier rules.

Ask many many people here how they feel about the ordinary human decency of so many things. Only 20% of people think FG come up to muster in delivering that.

We had a 40 year long conflict/war here, that is going to take genertions to get over.

I voted for SF because I think they are moving forward from that and offering an alternative. We can be here all night trading awfulness that happened in that conflict.


I notice you seem reticent about giving us examples of these nirvanish 'happy societies'. I wonder why?

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Like most rational people in this country, I don't believe the IRA are innocent of Paul Quinn's murder. Some of those people give them a pass for it on account of the Peace Process baby in Sinn Fein's arms, I don't.

Ususally rational people to require a tiny piece of proof,before accusing someone of murder though


Like,jesus lads,the people behind the killing are easily found via google,some have been named in parliments....the closest connection iirc was a brother of an since passed ira activist



Lads saying people push for justice are deluded,unless someone who participated breaks/confesses,there'll not be justice,

harsh (and morally questionable) i know,but that is reality of situation.....unless we start repealing burden of evidence required to convict someone of murder,(wider implications we shouldnt) this is reality of situation

Pkiernan

Theres a reason they're called the IRA party.

Shefwedfan

blanch152 wrote: »

I am fed up of mealy-mouthed statements from Sinn Fein people around Paul Quinn.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/independent-agency-says-ira-members-involved-in-paul-quinns-murder-38929663.html


(1) IRA members were involved in his killing and have been protected by Sinn Fein
(2) Sinn Fein public representatives made untrue public accusations of criminality against Paul Quinn and have refused to apologise.


No amount of word manipulation, selective quotation and perverse distraction can take away from that.



P.S. When the IMC said that they were "aware of no evidence linking the leadership of PIRA to the incident", that was very carefully worded and did not say what the IMC believed to be the case.

Just for Francie


Might read this
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/who-was-paul-quinn-and-why-has-his-murder-become-an-election-issue-1.4162636
\
Even Mary Lou was feeding people a pack of lies


What did Sinn Féin’s leader Mary Lou McDonald tell Bryan Dobson in an interview with RTÉ on Monday night?

McDonald said that she had spoken to Murphy and that he was “very clear that he never said” that Quinn was involved in criminality and “that that is not his view”.
What did McDonald tell Miriam O’Callaghan in the leaders’ debate 24 hours later?

The Sinn Féin leader acknowledged her comments the previous night. When O’Callaghan read out Murphy’s comments from his 2007 BBC interview, she said that “those things should not have been said”. McDonald later said Murphy would retract and apologise for his comments.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ok mention some murders/murder cover ups, rape cover ups, pedophile cover ups Leo, Enda, Micheal Martin, Brendan Howlin, Alan Kelly, Eamon Ryan, Rosin Shorthall have been involved in? Have any of thier party members being caught spying in the dail lately? Like O'Snodaigh's team of helpers?

Because if any has serious questions should be asked. Plus if anyone is doing the dragging of murder victims it is by SF hands or associates.

Of course in your mind we should accept it as normal.
The former leader of your party SF hid his Peado brother in Republican circles for years for example!
Another 'good republican' was done for tax evasion and jailed. Yet the same former leader described him as good republican!

All of those things should be met with a shrug of the shoulder should they?
Sure what is justice for a few murder or rape victims, between friends?
Sure doesn't every party do it?
Is that the attitude you want?

The question displays the simplicity of your ignorance.
If I had all day I could certainly list some FF/FG TD's and governments who had a hand in similar alas I fear it would go down the usual rabbit hole and is a waste of time. I'm very fond of Roisin by the way. I prefer the SD's to SF.

It's disrespectful to the point of making it mundane and that's shameful.

All you seem to do is throw up items and infer SF did it or I'm defending it. It's boring.
I'll happily vote SF when the options are FF/FG. I'm cula bula with that. You haven't addressed any of my responses only to throw in more irrelevant ****e talk. If you want to chime in in the least tackle some of my responses. Every conversation with you is the same conversation.

James Brown

Pkiernan wrote: »

Theres a reason they're called the IRA party.

Maybe because they have a long association with the IRA and some in SF are former members

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ask many many people here how they feel about the ordinary human decency of so many things. Only 20% of people think FG come up to muster in delivering that.

We had a 40 year long conflict/war here, that is going to take generations to get over.

I voted for SF because I think they are moving forward from that and offering an alternative. We can be here all night trading awfulness that happened in that conflict.


I notice you seem reticent about giving us examples of these nirvanish 'happy societies'. I wonder why?

Again you missed the post where 1.1m of the electorate voted for parties that said they would not go in government with SF well over 40%.
Have you asked yourself why this is?
It is because the vast majority of the electorate do not trust SF.

Ask yourself what has been SF's greatest achievement?
To stop shooting people - only because other parties worked hard to bring them around a table

SF are still not behaving like a normal party and have members/former members of an Army Council directing them.

SF is a very insular party who voted no to virtually every EU referendum I can remember. It is narrow in mindset and shady. They cover up murders rapes and so on It is not a nice vibe. The vibe is more of a gang than a policitical party.
Maybe you are used to that where you come from. But I like my policiticans open honest as well as hardworking. Not working hard to be dishonest.
Which is what SF seem to spend most of the time doing.

Also they want to have a border poll in SF and potentially reignite a new troubles. Some nirvana. It will end like the way Kurt Cobain did.

As for the generations to get over thing that is bull. SF are making zero effort to clean up the choas they left behind and just hope they those seeking justice go away. Or the electorate forget.

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Just for Francie


Might read this
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/who-was-paul-quinn-and-why-has-his-murder-become-an-election-issue-1.4162636
\
Even Mary Lou was feeding people a pack of lies


What did Sinn Féin’s leader Mary Lou McDonald tell Bryan Dobson in an interview with RTÉ on Monday night?

McDonald said that she had spoken to Murphy and that he was “very clear that he never said” that Quinn was involved in criminality and “that that is not his view”.
What did McDonald tell Miriam O’Callaghan in the leaders’ debate 24 hours later?

The Sinn Féin leader acknowledged her comments the previous night. When O’Callaghan read out Murphy’s comments from his 2007 BBC interview, she said that “those things should not have been said”. McDonald later said Murphy would retract and apologise for his comments.

Party leader says the wrong thing and later has to retract and apologise...I wonder when that ever happened recently...today even.

Is that all you have Shef...a party leader not up to speed on something but when corrected fully accepts she made a mistake...really?

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

....
Also they want to have a border poll in SF and potentially reignite a new troubles. Some nirvana. It will end like the way Kurt Cobain did.

Do you think Varadkar saying Belfast is overseas is going to help things or is disrespectful?

Darc19

I see Printer Cartridge O Snodaigh objected to a 5g mast as he does not believe the WHO and claims that there are health concerns around it.

What an utter fool.

Bowie

Bowie wrote: »

Do you think Varadkar saying Belfast is overseas is going to help things or disrespectful?

Tbf anything outside M50 is likely regarded as overseas to varadkar

That was pointless,deliberately manufactured outrage story imo

gormdubhgorm

Bowie wrote: »

The question displays the simplicity of your ignorance.
If I had all day I could certainly list some FF/FG TD's and governments who had a hand in similar alas I fear it would go down the usual rabbit hole and is a waste of time. I'm very fond of Roisin by the way. I prefer the SD's to SF.

It's disrespectful to the point of making it mundane and that's shameful.

All you seem to do is throw up items and infer SF did it or I'm defending it. It's boring.
I'll happily vote SF when the options are FF/FG. I'm cula bula with that. You haven't addressed any of my responses only to throw in more irrelevant ****e talk. If you want to chime in in the least tackle some of my responses. Every conversation with you is the same conversation.

Death is mundane to you I suppose unless it is glorious republican one?
Death is boring to you as well I suppose?
You are cuala bula with no justice for those who have suffered from death in republican circles caused by republicanism.
Your moral compass is obviously a lot different than mine.

You should think of this post you wrote the next time one of your family members dies. Then think of what it would be like if they suffered a senseless boring mundane murder. Or rape. If your auld one was raped for example wouldn't you want justice.
Wouldn't you be angry about a rape/murder cover up by politicians!?

You have not really given any coherent post that has been worth responding to. As you obviously do not see the rule of law in society as important. Or else you are just a republican barstooler with nothing better to do?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Again you missed the post where 1.1m of the electorate voted for parties that said they would not go in government with SF well over 40%.
Have you asked yourself why this is?
It is because the vast majority of the electorate do not trust SF.

How many voted for parties that said they wouldn't go into coalition with FG?

Ask yourself what has been SF's greatest achievement?
To stop shooting people - only because other parties worked hard to bring them around a table

That is a completely selective view again.

SF are still not behaving like a normal party and have members/former members of an Army Council directing them.

I think they were hugely successful in opposition, upset the cosy blind eyes in the Dáil and they are bringing to an end, civil war sham fighting between two party's happy to swap power and divide the spoils. ROck on the former members of the defunct Army, if it is them doing it.

SF is a very insular party who voted no to virtually every EU referendum I can remember. It is narrow in mindset and shady. They cover up murders rapes and so on It is not a nice vibe. The vibe is more of a gang than a policitical party.
Maybe you are used to that where you come from. But I like my policiticans open honest as well as hardworking. Not working hard to be dishonest.
Which is what SF seem to spend most of the time doing.

They aren't great at covering up murders if you guys know catergorically and beyond doubt who done it, are they?

Also they want to have a border poll in SF and potentially reignite a new troubles. Some nirvana. It will end like the way Kurt Cobain did.

As for the generations to get over thing that is bull. SF are making zero effort to clean up the choas they left behind and just hope they those seeking justice go away. Or the electorate forget.

I disagree, I see what they are involved in locally and to be honest they are completely unafraid to confront the past and what happened. They weren't the only ones responsible for what happened btw.

Shefwedfan

Bowie wrote: »

Do you think Varadkar saying Belfast is overseas is going to help things or is disrespectful?

Is saying they are overseas going to increase or decrease the IRA killing random people for no reason??

gormdubhgorm

Bowie wrote: »

Do you think Varadkar saying Belfast is overseas is going to help things or is disrespectful?

Last time I checked it was part of the UK and if you look up the 1997 world snooker championship. David Vine said the same thing when interviewing Ken Doherty. "The second overseas player to win the world snooker title."

Leo did not kill anyone did he? Or cover up a murder or rape? Rob a Bank.

Did you ever hear of the nursery rhyme sticks and stones may break my bones but words would never hurt me?

Nobody was abused based on religion were they? Aka O'Snodaigh v Shatter

Did he have a banner of any kind like Mary Lou telling the English to get out of Ireland?

gormdubhgorm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Last time I checked it was part of the UK and if you look up the 1997 world snooker championship. David Vine said the same thing when interviewing Ken Doherty. "The second overseas player to win the world snooker title."

Leo did not kill anyone did he? Or cover up a murder or rape? Rob a Bank.

Did you ever hear of the nursery rhyme sticks and stones may break my bones but words would never hurt me?

Last time i checked there was no sea between dublin and belfast :pac:


Takes a fair level of blind dedication to try claim.there is or justify such poor knowledge of geography....fair play to ya for trying though

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Death is mundane to you I suppose unless it is glorious republican one?
Death is boring to you as well I suppose?
You are cuala bula with no justice for those who have suffered from death in republican circles caused by republicanism.
Your moral compass is obviously a lot different than mine.

You should think of this post you wrote the next time one of your family members dies. Then think of what it would be like if they suffered a senseless boring mundane murder. Or rape. If your auld one was raped for example wouldn't you want justice.
Wouldn't you be angry about a rape/murder cover up by politicians!?

You have not really given any coherent post that has been worth responding to. As you obviously do not see the rule of law in society as important. Or else you are just a republican barstooler with nothing better to do?

Not at all. I think killing is awful. Par for the course for you I'd imagine.
Using death repeatedly to try score points in a political argument is disrespectful but after a time also very boring.
No. That's not cula bula at all.
Yes, very.

Why? You asked me did various politicians do various things I said I could give examples. Now you are bringing personal family deaths into your bizarre and disrespectful bitter little world.

Comrade, I try to answer you but you're not interested. You just want to use deaths for point scoring and have no interest in anything else. That's on you buddy.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Last time I checked it was part of the UK and if you look up the 1997 world snooker championship. David Vine said the same thing when interviewing Ken Doherty. "The second overseas player to win the world snooker title."

Leo did not kill anyone did he? Or cover up a murder or rape? Rob a Bank.

Did you ever hear of the nursery rhyme sticks and stones may break my bones but words would never hurt me?

Nobody was abused based on religion were they? Aka O'Snodaigh v Shatter

Try almost 100 years of being told you are a second class citizen because of your religion. Seriously...what planet are you from?

Beasty

maccored wrote: »

Capitals? Maybe your 6 year old can spell better?

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

So much anger on this thread from Francie, Matt Barrett and the lads. Steaming almost coming out their virtual ears.

Very amusing to read.

Bowie wrote: »

You're just looking for a slagging match. Jog on.

all about the mane wrote: »

They definitely seem to be triggered this evening. Realisation what a mess the fishwife has made of things.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Shef is fighting the conflict out again and sonebody is indulging in his cosy sexism...I think 'anger' is obviously in the eye of the beholders.

If you lot cannot be civil when posting I will happily remove posting privileges. Now discuss the topic and not other users

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I disagree, I see what they are involved in locally and to be honest they are completely unafraid to confront the past and what happened. They weren't the only ones responsible for what happened btw.

SF are not helping to do thier bit any sort out real justice in republican circles.
It is an insult.
Most of the SF reps dealing with Republican questions seem to exude just slightly more intelligent responses than Bowie or Blaaz on this thread.
Again I mention human decency I see little from SF when called upon.

Your moral compass is obviously set differently than mine and you view it all as a 'price' worth paying for a UI. Someone else's lives and no justice for some as long as it leads to a UI and the green postboxes.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Try almost 100 years of being told you are a second class citizen because of your religion. Seriously...what planet are you from?

How often do you go to mass? Religion is an irrelevance to most in Ireland in the 21st century

And last time I checked Francie the civil rights issue has long been solved. Plus NI's main mistake was letting the men of violence hijack John Hume's efforts.

Anyway I am busy I will let youse republicans living in the past (but only when it suits) continue thier discussion.