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Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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  • Options
    #5012
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Bowie wrote: »
    As usual? Show your work.

    ..........
    Bowie wrote: »
    No idea. Who made that claim?

    ...
    Bowie wrote: »
    Why do you think I'm right to have an issue with the RIC/Tans?
    Do I? Examples please.

    ...

    Now, where are you on 'being in opposition is no good to anyone'?
    Bowie wrote: »
    Do you think Varadkar saying Belfast is overseas is going to help things or is disrespectful?
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Is saying they are overseas going to increase or decrease the IRA killing random people for no reason??

    You are doing a serious amount of ducking and diving today.
    So in the words of the poet....
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Of course you did.


    So answer the question or as usual just dodge it?


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    #5013
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Bowie wrote: »
    Not at all. I think killing is awful. Par for the course for you I'd imagine.
    Using death repeatedly to try score points in a political argument is disrespectful but after a time also very boring.
    No. That's not cula bula at all.
    Yes, very.

    Why? You asked me did various politicians do various things I said I could give examples. Now you are bringing personal family deaths into your bizarre and disrespectful bitter little world.

    Comrade, I try to answer you but you're not interested. You just want to use deaths for point scoring and have no interest in anything else. That's on you buddy.


    I agree. As part of a poltical discussion death should not be a topic


    Look at the FF, FG, Greens, PBP, etc etc threads and nobody is discussing death. Just policies


    Unfortuneatly, with SF it is all too common, the fact they refuse to condemn the action and the ongoing action of the IRA it will always be part of the discussion, Try as you might to hide it and deflect it is part of the conversation. Will be now and forever.

    When you see the leader going on national TV and saying nothing about a politican shouting up "Up da Ra". Before going on TV and lying to the public when one of her polticians tried to insult a dead person to cover up for the IRA.


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    #5014
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Bowie wrote: »

    Comrade, I try to answer you but you're not interested. You just want to use deaths for point scoring and have no interest in anything else. That's on you buddy.

    Death is not being used to score points it is the fundamental problem with SF. They do not respect the rule of law. Which is why Labour/FF/FG will not go into government with them.
    How can you have SF in government in the dail when they have pure disdain for the rule of law in the ROI?

    SCC, Gardai, Judges and so on.

    Plus I am not your comrade or buddy, nor am I a brainwashed bigot like yourself who sees life as cheap. Something to brush under the carpet if inconvenient to the cause.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #5015
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Bowie wrote: »
    You are doing a serious amount of ducking and diving today.
    So in the words of the poet....


    Nice bit of cutting.....


    Pity you didn't spend as much time answering posts


  • Options
    #5016
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,948 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    How often do you go to mass? Religion is an irrelevance to most in Ireland in the 21st century
    Sure it is now, but it certainly wasn't in my fathers time...the lead up to the conflict/war. Again...what planet are you on to have missed this.
    And last time I checked Francie the civil rights issue has long been solved. Plus NI's main mistake was letting the men of violence hijack John Hume's efforts.
    Yes...largely solved but a way to go yet. And STILL you cannot accept that the people given their civil rights want to reward SF again and again for achieving them. The people speak and you and the likes of Leo Varadkar piss on that because they are at the gates of power here too. No other reason.


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    #5017
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Nice bit of cutting.....


    Pity you didn't spend as much time answering posts

    Is this 'I know you are but what am I'? Bobby Sands wept...
    I answered every one of your posts. You dodged every question I asked you.
    The link to each post is there but I expect you'll not respond as you haven't already.

    Why do you think I'm right to have an issue with the RIC/Tans?
    Where do I defend the IRA?
    Do you still think being in opposition is no good to anyone?
    Do you think Varadkar referring to Belfast as overseas is helping matters?
    Do you still think Tubbs and MLMD might have pretended they had Covid for PR?


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    #5018
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Are you having a laugh the IRA was no involved in Paul Quinn....

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/who-was-paul-quinn-and-why-has-his-murder-become-an-election-issue-1.4162636

    Everyone has linked the IRA to him. Even SF came out with some bulls**t excuse that he was a criminal and then done a half assed apology when it blew up in their face. Even MLM told a pile of lies to try cover it up

    Maybe, just maybe SF could tell the truth for once.....covering up for the murder and then trying a smear campaign against a young dead person. Standard SF and IRA response

    Will FG be apologising and launching an enquiry into the nursing home deaths for Covid?


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    #5019
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Bowie wrote: »
    Is this 'I know you are but what am I'? Bobby Sands wept...
    I answered every one of you posts. You dodged every question I asked you.
    The link to each post is there but I expect you'll not respond as you haven't already.


    If you say so, I will let other people judge what you have or have not answered.

    The best part is Blaaz_ putting "Thanks" on all your posts :-) says it all really


  • Options
    #5020
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Death is not being used to score points it is the fundamental problem with SF. They do not respect the rule of law. Which is why Labour/FF/FG will not go into government with them.
    How can you have SF in government in the dail when they have pure disdain for the rule of law in the ROI?

    SCC, Gardai, Judges and so on.

    Plus I am not your comrade or buddy, nor am I a brainwashed bigot like yourself who sees life as cheap. Something to brush under the carpet if inconvenient to the cause.

    Comrade, I don't think you are interested in anything but going on about the IRA and that's fine but I'll leave you to it.


  • Options
    #5021
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    If you say so, I will let other people judge what you have or have not answered.

    I made a list:

    Why do you think I'm right to have an issue with the RIC/Tans?
    Where do I defend the IRA?
    Do you still think being in opposition is no good to anyone?
    Do you think Varadkar referring to Belfast as overseas is helping matters?
    Do you still think Tubbs and MLMD might have pretended they had Covid for PR?

    If you've links to the responses please share.


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    #5022
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Sure it is now, but it certainly wasn't in my fathers time...the lead up to the conflict/war. Again...what planet are you on to have missed this.
    Newsflash you are not in your fathers time. That was last century we are in the 21st century. Which SF still has to catch up on.

    Yes...largely solved but a way to go yet. And STILL you cannot accept that the people given their civil rights want to reward SF again and again for achieving them. The people speak and you and the likes of Leo Varadkar piss on that because they are at the gates of power here too. No other reason.

    Again well over 40% voted for parties who said they would not go into gov with SF respect the mandate. As for NI as far as I saw it the SDLP John Hume did most of the leg work and the Irish government - to try and get the Unionists and Republicans to stop killing each other.

    To get into the gates of power in the ROI you have to show respect for the rule of law SF have not shown that completely.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #5023
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,353 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The best part is Blaaz_ putting "Thanks" on all your posts :-) says it all really
    Do not post in this thread again


  • Options
    #5024
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Death is not being used to score points it is the fundamental problem with SF. They do not respect the rule of law. Which is why Labour/FF/FG will not go into government with them.
    How can you have SF in government in the dail when they have pure disdain for the rule of law in the ROI?

    SCC, Gardai, Judges and so on.

    Plus I am not your comrade or buddy, nor am I a brainwashed bigot like yourself who sees life as cheap. Something to brush under the carpet if inconvenient to the cause.
    Bowie wrote: »
    Comrade, I don't think you are interested in anything but going on about the IRA and that's fine but I'll leave you to it.

    Nowhere in that post did I mention the IRA, I merely said SF do not respect the rule of law in the Republic of Ireland look up A. O' Snodaigh and his family - your comrádaí. Also MLMD statements on the SCC.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #5025
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,353 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    nor am I a brainwashed bigot like yourself
    Threadbanned


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    #5026
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,948 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Newsflash you are not in your fathers time. That was last century we are in the 21st century. Which SF still has to catch up on.
    I didn't say I was. You seem to ignore that it wasn't an innate trait in your fellow Irish men and women to kill...circumstances caused the conflagration. Circumstances that were largely ignored until it wen up in flames, by us in the south too as well as other whose responsibility it was.

    Again well over 40% voted for parties who said they would not go into gov with SF respect the mandate. As for NI as far as I saw it the SDLP John Hume did most of the leg work and the Irish government to try and get the Unionists and Republicans to stop killing each other.

    You still haven't told us HOW MANY voted for parties who said they wouldn't go in with FG. Whenever you are ready.
    As far as I can see...again and again the people reward SF as their reps. The SDLP forced John Hume to do a solo run on the peace talks...know your history, the people do.
    To get into the gates of power in the ROI you have to show respect for the rule of law SF have not shown that completely.
    The law says you need evidence to convict...your feeling it in your water that x did such and y did the other and z was a member of that, is not good enough.


  • Options
    #5027
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Sure it is now, but it certainly wasn't in my fathers time...the lead up to the conflict/war. Again...what planet are you on to have missed this.


    Yes...largely solved but a way to go yet. And STILL you cannot accept that the people given their civil rights want to reward SF again and again for achieving them. The people speak and you and the likes of Leo Varadkar piss on that because they are at the gates of power here too. No other reason.

    The gates of power?
    Not wanting to sound negative on that, but who has shown any interest in standing alongside them?
    They haven't an ally in the Dail really have they?


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    #5028
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭christy c


    smurgen wrote: »
    Will FG be apologising and launching an enquiry into the nursing home deaths for Covid?

    I dont know, but there's people like yourself who thought Borris was making them look bad so goes to show it's possible to be far worse.


  • Options
    #5029
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,948 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Bishop of hope wrote: »
    The gates of power?
    Not wanting to sound negative on that, but who has shown any interest in standing alongside them?
    They haven't an ally in the Dail really have they?

    I believe sincerely that the high moral ground stuff FF go on with is rubbish tbh. Martin would have gone with SF in a heartbeat had he won 50 seats. No doubt in my mind about that. FG less so, but if it was expedient they'd have done the deal.

    They are basically paralysed by SF, they know they can't play the power swap game anymore. C&S an now coalition...if you cannot see the changes brought about by SF arriving at the gates...I think you are being defensively and willfully naive tbh.


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    #5030
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I believe sincerely that the high moral ground stuff FF go on with is rubbish tbh. Martin would have gone with SF in a heartbeat had he won 50 seats. No doubt in my mind about that. FG less so, but if it was expedient they'd have done the deal.

    They are basically paralysed by SF, they know they can't play the power swap game anymore. C&S an now coalition...if you cannot see the changes brought about by SF arriving at the gates...I think you are being defensively and willfully naive tbh.

    I can see that, whether it's for better or not is to be told.
    I don't deem them to be the saviours of Irish politics their supporters see them as though, just the new FF really.
    I agree about MM too, but his pretenders waiting in the wings aren't on for it.


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    #5031
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,948 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Bishop of hope wrote: »
    I can see that, whether it's for better or not is to be told.
    I don't deem them to be the saviours of Irish politics their supporters see them as though, just the new FF really.
    I agree about MM too, but his pretenders waiting in the wings aren't on for it.

    SF will just be another political party. I don't think they will save anything, I don't think any political party can.
    They can and have changed things though. And if they get a mandate then they deserve their chance.
    If we ruled out party's because they were involved in conflict we would never have had anyone to run the country a short few decades ago. They all decided to lock away the details, thus prolonging civil war politics to this very day.


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    #5032
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    SF will just be another political party. I don't think they will save anything, I don't think any political party can.
    They can and have changed things though. And if they get a mandate then they deserve their chance.
    If we ruled out party's because they were involved in conflict we would never have had anyone to run the country a short few decades ago. They all decided to lock away the details, thus prolonging civil war politics to this very day.

    Are you serious?
    So you're saying SF isn't an extension of civil war politics, and you asked me if I was naieve.


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    #5033
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,948 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Bishop of hope wrote: »
    Are you serious?
    So you're saying SF isn't an extension of civil war politics, and you asked me if I was naieve.

    I didn't say that at all.
    But now that you mention it, No, they don't seem a bit interested in faux civil war politics.

    It was faux civil war politics...the two parties involved are in the process of ending it now that SF are at the gates.


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    #5034
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I didn't say that at all.
    But now that you mention it, No, they don't seem a bit interested in faux civil war politics.

    It was faux civil war politics...the two parties involved are in the process of ending it now that SF are at the gates.

    You're floundering badly here.
    Sinn Fein are at the gates, faux civil war politics!
    Just an extension of the same old same old.
    Nothing new Francie.


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    #5035
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,948 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Bishop of hope wrote: »
    You're floundering badly here.
    Sinn Fein are at the gates, faux civil war politics!
    Just an extension of the same old same old.
    Nothing new Francie.

    FF and FG are about to coalesce...nothing same old same old about that. That is seismic in Irish politics.

    If they can now find it to coalesce (some would say it is all but a merger) something caused that.

    I think it was the rise of SF, interested in other views of what caused it. 84% of the vote down to 42%.


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    #5036
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    FF and FG are about to coalesce...nothing same old same old about that. That is seismic in Irish politics.

    If they can now find it to coalesce (some would say it is all but a merger) something caused that.

    I think it was the rise of SF, interested in other views of what caused it. 84% of the vote down to 42%.

    I'm not arguing that, just saying it's just a new version of it.
    SF are the new FF, it will be the same old cycle and for the average Irish worker, nothing will change.


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    #5037
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,951 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I quoted the IMC earlier...they said 'they had concluded' that the IRA were not involved.

    Standard stuff after an investigation.

    Did you find the updated change of this statement that you said existed?


    In the link I provided, the IMC are quoted, and it is not how you presented it.


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    #5038
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,951 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I didn't say I was. You seem to ignore that it wasn't an innate trait in your fellow Irish men and women to kill...circumstances caused the conflagration. Circumstances that were largely ignored until it wen up in flames, by us in the south too as well as other whose responsibility it was.

    It was only a few deluded thugs who started killing people as part of the IRA campaign. They never had popular support, they never had widespread backing, it was John Hume who was loved by Irish nationalists in the North during those times, not Gerry or any of the other thugs. SF only got popular from gratitude for stopping killing people.

    Rewriting The history of the 1970s and 1980s won’t change that.


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    #5039
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,948 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    In the link I provided, the IMC are quoted, and it is not how you presented it.

    The IMC clearly sated that the IRA as an organisation was not involved in the killing. Paul Quinn's father accepted that.
    Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin said unequivocably at the time 'there was no ambiguity about his party's position. He said those responsible had been involved in an act of criminality.'

    Not sure what else is required here. The PSNI and The IMC know who did it...I know who did it because I know Paul Quinn's neighbours...is it that you want people like me to invent forensics to get these animals behind bars?


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    #5040
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,759 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    blanch152 wrote: »
    You forgot the perennial favourite around here - Partitionist.

    Crown forces.

    Imprisoned without trial.

    Wants to take all the guns out of Irish politics.


    The list is endless really.


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    #5041
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,948 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    They never had popular support, .

    When was there a vote on that?

    My father, an SDLP supporter, once told me he would have voted for Ghengis Khan rather than Harold McCusker when he had a vote there. That's how divided society was.
    He spent two days in Dublin...one protesting Bloody Sunday and the other the death of Bobby Sands. He was a nationalist/republican first and foremost.
    That is the nuance you refuse to countenance, that is why the vote shifted so easily to SF.
    Nobody wanted the violence/conflict/war but nobody pretended that it wasn't inevitable and no nationalist blamed nationalists for it going up in flames. John Hume certainly didn't. He knew better.


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