Is it just me or have SF vanished?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When was there a vote on that?

This has been done to death at this stage, but again, the PIRA never had popular support on this island, nor did they have any democratic mandate whatsoever.

The myth is that the Provos fought for the civil rights of nationalists when they were actually fighting for a United Ireland.
They dressed it up decades later as a 'win' for civil rights, as their main aim could not and have not been achieved.

This has been done to death, and only the hardcore SF types refuse to call it out for what it is.

So, lets not revise history for political aims shall we.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

This has been done to death at this stage, but again, the PIRA never had popular support on this island, nor did they have any democratic mandate whatsoever.

The myth is that the Provos fought for the civil rights of nationalists when they were actually fighting for a United Ireland.
They dressed it up decades later as a 'win' for civil rights, as their main aim could not and have not been achieved.

This has been done to death, and only the hardcore SF types refuse to call it out for what it is.

So, lets not revise history for political aims shall we.

This just seems your just trying to browbeat someone into supporting your point of view?


The chap surely allowed his take on it too

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

This just seems your just trying to browbeat someone into supporting your point of view?


The chap surely allowed his take on it too

People are entitled to their own opinions (5G causes cancer OMG!), but they are not entitled to their own facts (5G is actually harmless).

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

People are entitled to their own opinions (5G causes cancer OMG!), but they are not entitled to their own facts (5G is actually harmless).

Exactly....the chap is entitled to his view on support for paramilitaries or not too


As without something 100% conclusive,your opioion is entirely based on interpetation of available info,which is surely influenced by personal prejudice (as is his!)???

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly....the chap is entitled to his view on support for paramilitaries or not too

Correct, people are free to support the murder of people like Lyra McKee if they so want, of course, people like that are best shunned and avoided by civilised people.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

Correct, people are free to support the murder of people like Lyra McKee if they so want, of course, people like that are best shunned and avoided by civilised people.

I personally see no point in shunning such people anyway?

Not everyone,will agree with you all the time,and thats ok too.....its a big world out there,and would be wicked boring,if everyone agreed all the time



Once someones up for a laugh and not be mean is main thing,imo live and let live

Bishop of hope

markodaly wrote: »

This has been done to death at this stage, but again, the PIRA never had popular support on this island, nor did they have any democratic mandate whatsoever.

The myth is that the Provos fought for the civil rights of nationalists when they were actually fighting for a United Ireland.
They dressed it up decades later as a 'win' for civil rights, as their main aim could not and have not been achieved.

This has been done to death, and only the hardcore SF types refuse to call it out for what it is.

So, lets not revise history for political aims shall we.

But it was a win for civil rights!
The Irish and British govts stood by for decades and created the need for, or at least the void that allowed the IRA to come into existence in the first place, that part always seems to be forgotten.
Civil rights for catholics North of the border came out of that.
The old colonial attitude of the British, or at least English superiority still rears its ugly head now and again.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

Correct, people are free to support the murder of people like Lyra McKee if they so want, of course, people like that are best shunned and avoided by civilised people.

I think you have name-dropped Lyra McKee before , if not on this thread, certainly on an other(s).

Even the people who shot Ms McKee didn't "support" her murder - implying they did is yet more of the same trying to use someone's death to score points (something I believe you were earlier aghast to when anyone mentioned covid 19 deaths in nursing homes)

I will also remind you that Ms McKee was murdered by a group of people opposed to Sinn Fein and the Irish peace process (certainly one of which the likes of Leo and the likes of yourself have in common) ie dissident republicans.

Opposed to Sinn Fein.

Is that what motivated Joan and Enda to strategically place one from "overseas" in our Seanad?

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Runaways

Lads if all you’ve got on Sinn Fein is 5G conspiracies and 30-year-old murders not actually committed by anyone in Sinn Fein you’re really really on the ropes.

Desperate

The FG social media team really needs to find some new tactics or just about anything else at this stage

Odhinn

markodaly wrote: »

Correct, people are free to support the murder of people like Lyra McKee if they so want, of course, people like that are best shunned and avoided by civilised people.

Desperate grasping.

y0ssar1an22

markodaly wrote: »

People are entitled to their own opinions (5G causes cancer OMG!), but they are not entitled to their own facts (5G is actually harmless).

thalidomide was harmless as well until we gained more knowledge.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

This has been done to death at this stage, but again, the PIRA never had popular support on this island, nor did they have any democratic mandate whatsoever.

The myth is that the Provos fought for the civil rights of nationalists when they were actually fighting for a United Ireland.
They dressed it up decades later as a 'win' for civil rights, as their main aim could not and have not been achieved.

This has been done to death, and only the hardcore SF types refuse to call it out for what it is.

So, lets not revise history for political aims shall we.

I am off the opinion that it was both. They aren't mutually exclusive as goals.

I am not aware of any denial that the military campaign failed to remove the British.

SF members were harassed, vilified, intimidated, censored and shot so it is no surprise at all that it took time to build a voter base.

Here's the thing that makes no sense to me, you guys say that they had no mandate because they didn't command a big enough vote until they had signed up to the GFA.
That doesn't make any sense.
You are saying that people at the centre of the conflict immediately trusted SF and voted en masse for them?
The truth is that all through the 90's SF's vote grew. They took votes from the SDLP while the conflict/war was going on.

What does make sense is that the electorate saw what was being achieved and began moving away from the SDLP.

Personally I think the final straw for SDLP voters was when their terms for an electoral pact with SF was an end to abstentionism and a ceasefire by the IRA. This was rejected and still SF's support grew.
I think it was a huge mistake by Hume to demand that, as it turned a mirror onto the SDLP and what they had done to get any foothold with the British, i.e. doffed the hat and capitulated.

Here's a chronology of the 90's and what was going on...the decade when SF electoral support grew massively in the Westminster elections.
https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch90.htm

Prior to the GFA they got to within 1 seat of the SDLP from a base of no seats.
By the 2001 Westminster election they had eclipsed the SDLP and the IRA had not fully decommissioned, in fact several deadlines had passed on decommissioning.
You cannot revise that factual history of the actual events.

Runaways

Disgusting to use lyras memory in such a way
Mark you’re either ignorant of the fact that it was just some little scumbag shot her Or you are fully aware and trying somehow to attach that to Sinn Fein

As I was saying really effing desperate

markodaly

Runaways wrote: »

Disgusting to use lyras memory in such a way
Mark you’re either ignorant of the fact that it was just some little scumbag shot her Or you are fully aware and trying somehow to attach that to Sinn Fein

As I was saying really effing desperate

Its the same train of thought.

The Real IRA shot and killed Lyra McKee, because they are still fighting for that Untied Ireland via the barrel of the gun.

Just like the Provo's shot, bombed and killed thousands of people for a United Ireland, and justified it like the RIRA did until they sought a ceasefire.

One cannot square that circle.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What does make sense is that the electorate saw what was being achieved and began moving away from the SDLP.

What happened to the SDLP vote is the same that happened to the UUP vote. The balkanisation of the North was thus complete, by pushing more Green and Orange voters to the extreme until both the DUP and SF dominated politics up there. This is well documented.

However, we seem, from recent electoral outings a return to centrist politics, where the Alliance and the SDLP (and even the PBP/Greens) are growing in prominence.

Being honest, the DUP / SF duopoly does not serve the North well at all, it holds it back and more and more people are seeing that.

I think it was a huge mistake by Hume to demand that, as it turned a mirror onto the SDLP and what they had done to get any foothold with the British, i.e. doffed the hat and capitulated.

Didn't SF/PIRA doff the hat and capitulate when they accepted that the North remains in British hands? That is what the RIRA tell us anyway.
See, there is always an extremist somewhere out there telling you that you are too soft.

Here's a chronology of the 90's and what was going on...the decade when SF electoral support grew massively in the Westminster elections.
https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch90.htm

You mean SF support grew, when the PIRA stopped killing and murdering people.
That is my point exactly

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

The real ira didnt shot lyra mckee...they have long ceased to exist....if your gonna throw about issues such as this,

What are they called these days? New IRA?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

What happened to the SDLP vote is the same that happened to the UUP vote. The balkanisation of the North was thus complete, by pushing more Green and Orange voters to the extreme until both the DUP and SF dominated politics up there. This is well documented.

However, we seem, from recent electoral outings a return to centrist politics, where the Alliance and the SDLP (and even the PBP/Greens) are growing in prominence.

Being honest, the DUP / SF duopoly does not serve the North well at all, it holds it back and more and more people are seeing that.

Factually wrong to compare what happened the UUP vote to what happened the SDLP vote.

As stated, the SF vote grew steadily through the conflict/war of the 90's. The UUP vote collapsed when they agreed to the GFA.
We know why this happened to the UUP.

Didn't SF/PIRA doff the hat and capitulate when they accepted that the North remains in British hands? That is what the RIRA tell us anyway.
See, there is always an extremist somewhere out there telling you that you are too soft.

No they didn't capitulate...they got very real and tangible benefits from the GFA. The electorate seen that and rewarded it. The SDLP, took their seats, towed the line and got nowhere...that is the reality of why they lost ground.

You mean SF support grew, when the PIRA stopped killing and murdering people.
That is my point exactly

Not backed up by the data. Their support grew through the conflict and they bypassed the SDLP before the IRA had decommissioned.

Mortelaro

Pkiernan wrote: »

I haven't seen or heard anything

Well thanks to democracy, they've disappeared from the potential chairmanship of the covid 19 committee anyhow


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0512/1137852-special-dail-covid-19-committee/

TheCitizen

Mortelaro wrote: »

Well thanks to democracy, they've disappeared from the potential chairmanship of the covid 19 committee anyhow


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0512/1137852-special-dail-covid-19-committee/

Disappeared from the Chairmanship? They're sitting on the committee aren't they? Desperate stuff.

James Brown

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Nowhere in that post did I mention the IRA, I merely said SF do not respect the rule of law in the Republic of Ireland look up A. O' Snodaigh and his family - your comrádaí. Also MLMD statements on the SCC.

Never voted for O'Snodaigh, (maybe when he first appeared, not sure) and he's my local SF chap. I don't like the cut of his jib.
I like their intentions towards housing and how they have a chance at helping us get rid of FF/FG.
You really need take off the blinkers. I think FG need look closer to home as to why support is falling off. Changing nothing about the way they do business and looking to talk about the 'RA and the troubles and inferring other things is not helping them nor is it good for the Irish tax payer more interested in their national crises.

Mortelaro

TheCitizen wrote: »

Disappeared from the Chairmanship? They're sitting on the committee aren't they? Desperate stuff.

They were bigging up themselves for the chair
Like their government formation talks,they ran up against a small problem
Lack of a majority

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

People are entitled to their own opinions (5G causes cancer OMG!), but they are not entitled to their own facts (5G is actually harmless).

Nothing wrong with asking questions:

Fine Gael minister Brendan Griffin, SocDem leader Róisín Shortall, Sinn Féin TDs Pearse Doherty and Brian Stanley and Fianna Fáil TDs Robert Troy, Niamh Smyth and Pat Casey, who is now a senator, submitted parliamentary questions (PQs) about 5G's health impact.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/minister-and-tds-raised-dail-questions-last-year-on-health-concerns-around-5g-roll-out-39156129.html

The whole sneering ignorant attitude is what FG should be looking at IMO.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

What are they called these days? New IRA?

Pssst...it's not the same people. You might as well be talking about the UDA, BA or Women's Auxiliary.

Jinglejangle69

Can anyone tell me how the North can come up and do a different plan than Westminster seems we're told SF have no say over issues like health housing welfare etc because of power sharing?

Genuine question.

FrancieBrady

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me how the North can come up and do a different plan than Westminster seems we're told SF have no say over issues like health housing welfare etc because of power sharing?

Genuine question.

It's a devolved power, just like it is in Scotland and Wales who are doing their own thing too.

blanch152

Mortelaro wrote: »

Well thanks to democracy, they've disappeared from the potential chairmanship of the covid 19 committee anyhow


https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0512/1137852-special-dail-covid-19-committee/

Can't believe Sinn Fein put forward that hooligan Cullinane for the role, they have no decency.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a devolved power, just like it is in Scotland and Wales who are doing their own thing too.

But until now, we have been told many times on here that it is all Boris' fault that the handling of Covid has been such a shambles in the North.

Did people just wake up today?

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Pssst...it's not the same people. You might as well be talking about the UDA, BA or Women's Auxiliary.

Thing is, it is the same people, just a different name.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

But until now, we have been told many times on here that it is all Boris' fault that the handling of Covid has been such a shambles in the North.

Did people just wake up today?

Yes...when Arlene was insisting on blindly following.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes...when Arlene was insisting on blindly following.

Aye

UDA and UVF quickly put her back in her box and followed dublin instead

Pragmatism,in place of partisan is always good to see in action,in cases like this