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Is it just me or have SF vanished?
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Jinglejangle69 wrote: »Few words of advice I've gave posters who ventured onto this thread the last while.
You're wasting you're time with the 4 comrades.
They will twist, lie, scheme, manipulate, deflect etc etc any valid point you make that makes SF look in any way bad.
You're not gonna get any satisfaction.
What you're witnessing is a full time operation by a political party group.
https://www.sinnfein.ie/sfos
"The internet and social media are transforming politics around the world and here in Ireland. Never before has there been so many ways that you can help influence and make change happen through this global online community we live in.
Thousands of people from every walk of life have already signed up from across Ireland and beyond to become Online Supporters for Sinn Féin.
We are asking you to take the step today to become a Sinn Féin Online Supporter and join our campaign to reshape politics in Ireland and in doing so usher in an era of radical change that puts the interest of our citizens at the heart of all we do.
For your sanity I'd advise to leave them at it:)
Thats quite the paranoid post.0 -
If you're going to jump in do a little back reading.
When talking about politics other parties come up. When FG comes up the responses are generally 'IRA something something'. There's nothing to deflect. I couldn't care less about Gerry Adams, who I believe was in the IRA, who I don't pay any heed to since the GFA and the fact that it's 2020 and the thread is about SF and their alleged disappearance from the media etc.
But I'm all over this thread,try not to be lecturing me on where to comment
Red girl was giving out about a poster deflecting the topic she was discussing by using a throwaway line them FG lads are only interested in the IRA
That's textbook deflection
But I hear ya on the general point
The two threads solve nothing0 -
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FrancieBrady wrote: »But when it suits the argument...'the 'RA still have them'.
I never made that argument Francie.
But let's move on shall we.0 -
What are so good about their current policies? what are they doing to deserve peoples vote?
They're proposing to restart the state social housing program and do something about price gouging in the rental market. If you picked a random hundred Millennial or Gen Y voters who voted for SF this February and asked them why SF was their choice, I'd bet my bottom dollar that at least three quarters of them would cite the absolute hell that is renting in modern Ireland since the recession ended as their reason for doing so. The other parties, for different reasons depending on which one we're talking about, have demonstrated that they either openly don't want to fix the problem, or are most likely bullsh!tting for the sake of tricking people into voting for them, when they claim they do want to fix it. Sinn Fein, at the very least, might want to fix it.
That's a good enough reason in the eyes of many, many people to vote for them. The last three years have, at least for the time being, created an entire generation of single-issue voters, and the single issue they're voting on is one in which only SF, PBP and the SocDems (a) claim they want to fix the problem, and (b) have no track record which suggests that this claim is a lie.
I'm honestly surprised we're still debating this so many pages later. Others berated me for using the term "stagflation" in the Irish context, but even the Financial Times acknowledges this as the reason for this year's election result:
https://www.ft.com/content/26a7a74e-4d8a-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5
According to an exit poll published on Saturday, some 63 per cent of voters said they did not feel they had benefited from an improvement in the economy.
The housing shortage is a particular concern, especially among the under-35s. A recent study by the Central Bank of Ireland showed that only one new dwelling was built for every seven additional people in the population between 2011 and 2019. Rents have increased by 40 per cent in the past five years, while average earnings have grown by just 14 per cent.
Sinn Féin is promising a big increase in public housing, a rent freeze and interventions in the banking system to cap mortgage rates, policies that have sent bank and property stocks down since the election amid anxiety about a leftward turn in Irish economic policy.
If that isn't stagflation then what is? The cost of living has accelerated far beyond increases in peoples' income during the course of this decade and the result of this is that many people are feeling more squeezed now than they were before the "recovery" got underway. Those who aren't dependent on rental accommodation simply don't empathise with this because they're not experiencing the drop in living standards that anyone who's been renting since the start of this decade has been. The lack of empathy is central to why the last government is particularly despised by the voters I'm referring to, but most of those voters were just becoming young adults when FF's corruption completely destroyed their prospects back in 2008/9, so even if FF claim to want to fix the problem, nobody believes them because they have a track record as corrupt, lying bastards. FG, on the other hand, aren't even claiming they want to fix the problem, instead openly telling young people that they should learn to love the decline in living standards which they are experiencing.
SF may or may not succeed in fixing the stagflation issue, but at least they want to. Or at least they're saying they want to. Of the other two main parties, anything FF says is automatically assumed to be BS because of their track record in bullsh!tting the public, and FG are openly unsympathetic and don't give a bollocks. Of the smaller parties, Green propped up FF during the worst years of the banking collapse when people were desperately clamouring for them to pull the plug, and Labour utterly sold out in supporting not just austerity, but a government and cabinet beset by scandal in which nobody was ever held properly accountable for wrongdoing.
That leaves the SocDems, the lefty parties and a smattering of reactionary right wing parties formed on the basis of splits over socially liberalising Ireland away from church rule. The young are obviously not going to break for the latter in large numbers, while the lefty parties did very well on the back of SF's transfers. SocDems are the only mystery to me in this election, I can't understand why they didn't do far better than they did. My uncle, a lifelong political activist and an avid follower of current affairs (annual attendee of the McGill summer school among other things) suggests that the SocDems lost all credibility when they had their very public spat with Stephen Donnelly, and this is why they didn't have a bigger showing. Personally I'd still give them a very high preference myself, but he points out that Donnelly's involvement gave them a layer of credibility which they just don't have without him, since he was such a popular and outspoken member of the 2011-2016 Dáil session in particular.
If you've read this post, and are still confused as to what SF's supporters find so good about their current policies, then I'm honestly curious - which part of this analysis is falling down for you? Are you disputing (a) that people are being seriously, seriously hurt by the current clusterf*ck that is the Irish rental situation, that (b) none of the other parties have either the ideology or the credibility to convince anyone that they'll make an honest attempt to fix that problem, or that (c) Sinn Fein have claimed that they'll make an honest attempt to fix it and don't have the credibility vacuum that FF does? Is there some other reason for discounting this explanation?
I feel like I and many other posters have explained the mentality of the SF surge ad nauseum in this thread and yet people are still saying "but why did people vote for them" without actually countering any of the specific explanations which have been offered. That's why I'm trying to spell it out as clearly as possible and I apologise if I came across as condescending or anything in this post - but I'd love it if someone chose the specific parts they don't believe are true before the next "but why vote for SF?" post comes along, and actually offered some kind of rebuttal.
To summarise briefly, young people are being utterly f*cked over by obscenely high rents which are making many, many people truly miserable in their day to day lives regardless of how well the macroeconomy might be doing, and Sinn Fein are the only party who tick both the ideological and the credibility box when it comes to "which party is most likely to pursue policies which might get my rent back to a level which doesn't leave me having to re-use teabags five times and choose which days I can afford to have breakfast". Until that problem is sorted, every other issue will take second place in young voters' minds - and every party which doesn't explicitly address it in a sympathetic manner will take the lowest boxes on those voters' ballot papers. It's that simple. While this issue is dominating peoples' lives, no other issue is going to be powerful enough to overcome it as an election force - not even Coronavirus.0 -
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Perfect analysis
Sadly all you will get in response is some waffle about the Ira 30 years ago
It’s all these FG Sycophants on boards have
They’re unable to Debate points And posts especially one so factual and well Constructed as yours.0 -
hatrickpatrick wrote: »They're proposing to restart the state social housing program and do something about price gouging in the rental market. If you picked a random hundred Millennial or Gen Y voters who voted for SF this February and asked them why SF was their choice, I'd bet my bottom dollar that at least three quarters of them would cite the absolute hell that is renting in modern Ireland since the recession ended as their reason for doing so. The other parties, for different reasons depending on which one we're talking about, have demonstrated that they either openly don't want to fix the problem, or are most likely bullsh!tting for the sake of tricking people into voting for them, when they claim they do want to fix it. Sinn Fein, at the very least, might want to fix it.
That's a good enough reason in the eyes of many, many people to vote for them. The last three years have, at least for the time being, created an entire generation of single-issue voters, and the single issue they're voting on is one in which only SF, PBP and the SocDems (a) claim they want to fix the problem, and (b) have no track record which suggests that this claim is a lie.
I'm honestly surprised we're still debating this so many pages later. Others berated me for using the term "stagflation" in the Irish context, but even the Financial Times acknowledges this as the reason for this year's election result:
https://www.ft.com/content/26a7a74e-4d8a-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5
According to an exit poll published on Saturday, some 63 per cent of voters said they did not feel they had benefited from an improvement in the economy.
The housing shortage is a particular concern, especially among the under-35s. A recent study by the Central Bank of Ireland showed that only one new dwelling was built for every seven additional people in the population between 2011 and 2019. Rents have increased by 40 per cent in the past five years, while average earnings have grown by just 14 per cent.
Sinn Féin is promising a big increase in public housing, a rent freeze and interventions in the banking system to cap mortgage rates, policies that have sent bank and property stocks down since the election amid anxiety about a leftward turn in Irish economic policy.
If that isn't stagflation then what is? The cost of living has accelerated far beyond increases in peoples' income during the course of this decade and the result of this is that many people are feeling more squeezed now than they were before the "recovery" got underway. Those who aren't dependent on rental accommodation simply don't empathise with this because they're not experiencing the drop in living standards that anyone who's been renting since the start of this decade has been. The lack of empathy is central to why the last government is particularly despised by the voters I'm referring to, but most of those voters were just becoming young adults when FF's corruption completely destroyed their prospects back in 2008/9, so even if FF claim to want to fix the problem, nobody believes them because they have a track record as corrupt, lying bastards. FG, on the other hand, aren't even claiming they want to fix the problem, instead openly telling young people that they should learn to love the decline in living standards which they are experiencing.
SF may or may not succeed in fixing the stagflation issue, but at least they want to. Or at least they're saying they want to. Of the other two main parties, anything FF says is automatically assumed to be BS because of their track record in bullsh!tting the public, and FG are openly unsympathetic and don't give a bollocks. Of the smaller parties, Green propped up FF during the worst years of the banking collapse when people were desperately clamouring for them to pull the plug, and Labour utterly sold out in supporting not just austerity, but a government and cabinet beset by scandal in which nobody was ever held properly accountable for wrongdoing.
That leaves the SocDems, the lefty parties and a smattering of reactionary right wing parties formed on the basis of splits over socially liberalising Ireland away from church rule. The young are obviously not going to break for the latter in large numbers, while the lefty parties did very well on the back of SF's transfers. SocDems are the only mystery to me in this election, I can't understand why they didn't do far better than they did. My uncle, a lifelong political activist and an avid follower of current affairs (annual attendee of the McGill summer school among other things) suggests that the SocDems lost all credibility when they had their very public spat with Stephen Donnelly, and this is why they didn't have a bigger showing. Personally I'd still give them a very high preference myself, but he points out that Donnelly's involvement gave them a layer of credibility which they just don't have without him, since he was such a popular and outspoken member of the 2011-2016 Dáil session in particular.
If you've read this post, and are still confused as to what SF's supporters find so good about their current policies, then I'm honestly curious - which part of this analysis is falling down for you? Are you disputing (a) that people are being seriously, seriously hurt by the current clusterf*ck that is the Irish rental situation, that (b) none of the other parties have either the ideology or the credibility to convince anyone that they'll make an honest attempt to fix that problem, or that (c) Sinn Fein have claimed that they'll make an honest attempt to fix it and don't have the credibility vacuum that FF does? Is there some other reason for discounting this explanation?
I feel like I and many other posters have explained the mentality of the SF surge ad nauseum in this thread and yet people are still saying "but why did people vote for them" without actually countering any of the specific explanations which have been offered. That's why I'm trying to spell it out as clearly as possible and I apologise if I came across as condescending or anything in this post - but I'd love it if someone chose the specific parts they don't believe are true before the next "but why vote for SF?" post comes along, and actually offered some kind of rebuttal.
To summarise briefly, young people are being utterly f*cked over by obscenely high rents which are making many, many people truly miserable in their day to day lives regardless of how well the macroeconomy might be doing, and Sinn Fein are the only party who tick both the ideological and the credibility box when it comes to "which party is most likely to pursue policies which might get my rent back to a level which doesn't leave me having to re-use teabags five times and choose which days I can afford to have breakfast". Until that problem is sorted, every other issue will take second place in young voters' minds - and every party which doesn't explicitly address it in a sympathetic manner will take the lowest boxes on those voters' ballot papers. It's that simple. While this issue is dominating peoples' lives, no other issue is going to be powerful enough to overcome it as an election force - not even Coronavirus.
Pre-election promises from all parties on social housing/building of new houses were more or less the same. SF maybe a tad unrealistic. FF/FG have been in power long enough so its plausible to dismiss their proposals as vote seeking. Which leaves SF who have never been in power in the South to judge how they will follow through on election promises.
They are in power in the North and do have to be held account to their actions in a power sharing government.
https://thedetail.tv/articles/social-housing-bb946a8a-43df-450d-b8cd-66d71030cdf30 -
hatrickpatrick wrote: »SF, PBP and the SocDems (a) claim they want to fix the problem, and (b) have no track record which suggests that this claim is a lie.
SF’s track record is there for all to see.
They did not grant planning permission for a lot of developments that would have added plenty of accommodation.0 -
Post would have been good apart from all the attacks on every other party. Would you not leave it out and just discuss Sinn Fein. It is really annoying because you don't need it. Is it too much to ask?
So lets look at the numbers first. You have concentrated on housing, one of the issues in this country but this seems to be the focus from Sinn Fein. So a 1,500 tax credit. 279 million, no idea if that is available in budget or not. Not much detail in manifesto of where the money is coming from.
The 100,000 houses is bulls**t. It's taking 50,000 houses already been built and then saying they will build another 50,000. Even the model they propose for the 50,000 houses is untested in large number and really based on a lot of fantasy. Most of the numbers would be at best "back of the fag box" which zero overhead included. No project in the World, especially building will not hit issues. It's not like builders will offer them fixed prices. So the whole housing manifesto is a big lie. If they at least turned around and said best case it is X but in reality it will cost Y they might get some credit. But the numbers they have are unachievable.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/election-2020-is-sinn-f%C3%A9in-s-housing-policy-credible-1.4163859
So then we move to the rent freeze. Which just seems to be a blanket rent freeze across the entire sector. No thought again gone into this. Not everywhere in Ireland is Dublin. You have landlords at the moment who are under the mortgage repayment and have tenants in place. They are suddenly hit with a freeze? they will have to sell up.
You also have more and more health and safety requirements been driven into landlord. A majority of them are not important but come at a huge cost. This is just another kick in the teeth for the landlord. What Sinn Fein does not realise if every landlord in Ireland is not a multi millionaire, a lot of these guys are struggling. All this will do is drive these landlord out of the market and create more issues. Again this looks like something they came up with down the pub. No thought gone into it.
Read the manifesto, it is all stuff you could come up with down the pub with the lads. Nothing has any back up details. No "what if". This shows the had no interest in it, Sinn Fen expected to get another hammering at the polls.
You and other Sinn Fein voter keep going back to young people voted for Sinn Fein because of XYZ. No they didn't, just look at the type of politician got voted in, ask on the street now about the Sinn Fein Manifesto and majority never read it or have any intention of reading it. They voted Sinn Fein as a protest. Simple as that. This should be Sinn Fein time, but from my position they know the manifesto is unachievable so instead of pushing to get into government and then not been able to deliver. They are hiding in the long grass and then waiting till someone else gets into power. In this scenario they never have to answer how they would deliver their manifesto but they can continue to point towards a document which was never achievable.
I also disagree with the no track record, Sinn Fein have been in power sharing in the North. I know Sinn Fein won't be using it as a reference but that is the current track record. Which to be honest, has been an absolute disaster, so another reason why you should stop pointing fingers
Maybe you disagree? of course respond. This time maybe stick to Sinn Fein and quit with the guff about the other parties0 -
Perfect analysis
Sadly all you will get in response is some waffle about the Ira 30 years ago
It’s all these FG Sycophants on boards have
They’re unable to Debate points And posts especially one so factual and well Constructed as yours.
Here is the problem, one good post immediately followed by your post mentioning IRA and FG....what exactly is that adding to the conversation?
If you don't want people to talk about FG or the IRA, maybe just stop mentioning them in every single post0 -
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Here is the problem, one good post immediately followed by your post mentioning IRA and FG....what exactly is that adding to the conversation?
If you don't want people to talk about FG or the IRA, maybe just stop mentioning them in every single post
Your every post is policing other people and what they can and can’t talk about you need to get a ****ing grip0 -
Here is the problem, one good post immediately followed by your post mentioning IRA and FG....what exactly is that adding to the conversation?
If you don't want people to talk about FG or the IRA, maybe just stop mentioning them in every single post
You'd probably be better off in the politics forum
Over here,its IRA IRA DINNY DINNY DINNY0 -
In a long rambling post about won’t someone please think of the poor landlords then switching to don’t talk about anything else just the topic at hand
You just can’t take a poster like that seriously0 -
In a long rambling post about won’t someone please think of the poor landlords then switching to don’t talk about anything else just the topic at hand
You just can’t take a poster like that seriously
Are land lords not to be thought of at all?
Many of them use property as a pension fund
Are people with private pensions to be discarded or not thought of?
How apartheid of you0 -
In a long rambling post about won’t someone please think of the poor landlords then switching to don’t talk about anything else just the topic at hand
You just can’t take a poster like that seriously
Unfortunately the only person who can't be taken seriously is yourself. I will give you a hint, you can't have rental properties without landlord. You should remember that.
You did miss the section on Sinn Fein housing, I guess you agree with my assessment. Thank you.0 -
SF’s track record is there for all to see.
They did not grant planning permission for a lot of developments that would have added plenty of accommodation.
Sinn Fein's track record up North and in Dublin City Council is abysmal. Those who say give them a chance because they haven't messed up are obviously blind to this.0 -
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Maybe you disagree? of course respond. This time maybe stick to Sinn Fein and quit with the guff about the other parties
I actually think, given they are dealing with one of the most fundamentalist and culturally bigoted parties in western Europe in Northern Ireland that they have done spectacularly well.
They spent 20 years advancing NI back to normality (other parties were involved in what is technically a 5 party coalition as well) and they have delivered (even though they had to walk away) for Irish language SSM and womens's right, they have worked hard at normalising parades, the flying of flags. They have worked at creating and monitoring a newly structured police force ALL the people can have some confidence in. And most recently have aligned North and South on Brexit and Covid. They were talking about special status and treatment of NI in Brexit long before the government here were and spoke on it in the Dáíl and Europe.0 -
FrancieBrady wrote: »I actually think, given they are dealing with one of the most fundamentalist and culturally bigoted parties in western Europe in Northern Ireland that they have done spectacularly well.
They spent 20 years advancing NI back to normality (other parties were involved in what is technically a 5 party coalition as well) and they have delivered (even though they had to walk away) for Irish language SSM and womens's right, they have worked hard at normalising parades, the flying of flags. They have worked at creating and monitoring a newly structured police force ALL the people can have some confidence in. And most recently have aligned North and South on Brexit and Covid. They were talking about special status and treatment of NI in Brexit long before the government here were and spoke on it in the Dáíl and Europe.
I think I read before you said Sinn Fein had no power up the North and it was all driven either by the DUP or by Westminster? Now you are saying they have done all of the above in the North?
So which is it? Do Sinn Fein have power in the North for which they should be recognised for the positives?0 -
I think I read before you said Sinn Fein had no power up the North and it was all driven either by the DUP or by Westminster? Now you are saying they have done all of the above in the North?
So which is it? Do Sinn Fein have power in the North for which they should be recognised for the positives?
I never said that. I said the North was a unique political entity that operates in a completely different way to here.
Very few advancements for the nationalist - Irish identifying electorate have been delivered easily over the decades in NI. Nobody is surely in denial on that one.
Governed by the GFA the last 20 or so years have been easier but still a massive struggle against the recognised cultural stubbornness and religious fundamentalism of primarily the DUP and to a lesser extent the UUP. (who when push comes to shove will side with the DUP)
If that assessment is wrong then tell us how you see it.
As far as I can see SF have lobbied and agitated for every single thing seen as an advancement and a return to normaility in the list above. All achieved in the last 20 years.
Please fire away if you can show anything different.0 -
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Since the GFA, the Provos have kept their nose clean and as far as I understand, even the dissident republicans are not drug dealers. In fact, the opposite if you get my meaning! Its the loyalists who are the drug dealers. Dissident republicans are into diesel laundering and cigarette smuggling.
Well as long as thats all they are doing, then thats fine :rolleyes:
Maybe the Provos/Sinn Fein could have a word with their mates in the Real IRA, the New IRA, the IRA 2.0, the "I Can't Believe Its Not The IRA" IRA and whatever IRA is coming next about the bombings and shootings that they have been doing since the GFA. It would be nice if those stopped.0 -
FrancieBrady wrote: »I never said that. I said the North was a unique political entity that operates in a completely different way to here.
Very few advancements for the nationalist - Irish identifying electorate have been delivered easily over the decades in NI. Nobody is surely in denial on that one.
Governed by the GFA the last 20 or so years have been easier but still a massive struggle against the recognised cultural stubbornness and religious fundamentalism of primarily the DUP and to a lesser extent the UUP. (who when push comes to shove will side with the DUP)
If that assessment is wrong then tell us how you see it.
As far as I can see SF have lobbied and agitated for every single thing seen as an advancement and a return to normaility in the list above. All achieved in the last 20 years.
Please fire away if you can show anything different.
But But But But The IRA0 -
I find it profoundly ironic that the DUP took sides with the Roman Church against Sinn Féin on same sex marriage and abortion
Both of which were introduced by Westminster not Stormont0 -
I find it profoundly ironic that the DUP took sides with the Roman Church against Sinn Féin on same sex marriage and abortion
Both of which were introduced by Westminster not Stormont
They were only introduced by Westminister because SF and others (to be fair) advocated and lobbied for them and exhausted the mechanisms agreed in the GFA to get them legislated for.
Again, if something else happened, do tell us.
What is the RCC and The DUP point about, only demonstrating that religion for 'some' no longer influences how you attempt to govern for everybody in NI?
Was that what you meant?0 -
FrancieBrady wrote: »I never said that. I said the North was a unique political entity that operates in a completely different way to here.
Very few advancements for the nationalist - Irish identifying electorate have been delivered easily over the decades in NI. Nobody is surely in denial on that one.
Governed by the GFA the last 20 or so years have been easier but still a massive struggle against the recognised cultural stubbornness and religious fundamentalism of primarily the DUP and to a lesser extent the UUP. (who when push comes to shove will side with the DUP)
If that assessment is wrong then tell us how you see it.
As far as I can see SF have lobbied and agitated for every single thing seen as an advancement and a return to normaility in the list above. All achieved in the last 20 years.
Please fire away if you can show anything different.
Well how did it helping shutting down the government for 3 years over a petty disagreement?
Sinn Fein are in powering sharing, so they have equal say. I am not sure why you would refer to DUP as fundamentalism. That just using tabloid newspaper talk. In reality they are a good political party with a few outdated ideas. Or maybe you have more information than I do?
In regards to the North, what have Sinn Fein achieved? the country is propped up by the English government. Some young people either go to UK or to Southern Ireland for job, unless they can get into a public sector job. They have no industry.
So your post is good but actually has zero substance. I don't see a list of what Sinn Fein have achieved, just vague statement that cannot be backed up. Most of the advancement for people in the North was part of the Good Friday Agreement. What exactly have Sinn Fein done since then to make more improvements?
For instance, talk of a unified Ireland. It is impossible because Ireland could never take on Northern Ireland because we cannot bankroll it like the UK do. What companies have Sinn Fein attracted to Northern Ireland to mean it has to rely less on the public sector for jobs?
I did note we have pages pointing the finger at FG etc, as soon as North is mentioned you point the finger at DUP etc.0 -
Well how did it helping shutting down the government for 3 years over a petty disagreement?
Sinn Fein are in powering sharing, so they have equal say. I am not sure why you would refer to DUP as fundamentalism. That just using tabloid newspaper talk. In reality they are a good political party with a few outdated ideas. Or maybe you have more information than I do?
In regards to the North, what have Sinn Fein achieved? the country is propped up by the English government. Some young people either go to UK or to Southern Ireland for job, unless they can get into a public sector job. They have no industry.
So your post is good but actually has zero substance. I don't see a list of what Sinn Fein have achieved, just vague statement that cannot be backed up. Most of the advancement for people in the North was part of the Good Friday Agreement. What exactly have Sinn Fein done since then to make more improvements?
For instance, talk of a unified Ireland. It is impossible because Ireland could never take on Northern Ireland because we cannot bankroll it like the UK do. What companies have Sinn Fein attracted to Northern Ireland to mean it has to rely less on the public sector for jobs?
I did note we have pages pointing the finger at FG etc, as soon as North is mentioned you point the finger at DUP etc.
*splutter0 -
Well how did it helping shutting down the government for 3 years over a petty disagreement?
Sinn Fein are in powering sharing, so they have equal say. I am not sure why you would refer to DUP as fundamentalism. That just using tabloid newspaper talk. In reality they are a good political party with a few outdated ideas. Or maybe you have more information than I do?
In regards to the North, what have Sinn Fein achieved? the country is propped up by the English government. Some young people either go to UK or to Southern Ireland for job, unless they can get into a public sector job. They have no industry.
So your post is good but actually has zero substance. I don't see a list of what Sinn Fein have achieved, just vague statement that cannot be backed up. Most of the advancement for people in the North was part of the Good Friday Agreement. What exactly have Sinn Fein done since then to make more improvements?
For instance, talk of a unified Ireland. It is impossible because Ireland could never take on Northern Ireland because we cannot bankroll it like the UK do. What companies have Sinn Fein attracted to Northern Ireland to mean it has to rely less on the public sector for jobs?
I did note we have pages pointing the finger at FG etc, as soon as North is mentioned you point the finger at DUP etc.
I have rarely read a post like that tbh.
There was 20 years of government before the executive shut down...you want to ignore that to focus on a 3 year hiatus. Fair enough. Are you in denial that the DUP walked away from a deal that would have seen it get back to work. Are you in denial that the SoS blamed the DUP solely for being the block to it getting up and running again?
If you think a party that puts it's own religious morals (which are fundamentalist in nature) in front of the rights of all the citizens is not fundamentalist then there is nothing I can say or do that is gonna change that. If you believe a party that cannot stomach cultural rights that everyone else in the UK has is not culturally bigoted...go ahead. There isn't much can be done for you.
I will remind you that it was you who 'pointed' the finger at SF. You haven't addressed a single achievement outlined in my post. Then you tried to pivot to a UI. :rolleyes:0 -
I find it profoundly ironic that the DUP took sides with the Roman Church against Sinn Féin on same sex marriage and abortion
Both of which were introduced by Westminster not Stormont
Its worth pointing out that legislation was introduced by Labour MPs - Conor McGinn (Same Sex Marriage) is from Armagh and his father is or was a Sinn Fein Councillor.
Corbyn was always getting flack for being too friendly with SF/IRA, so I think its fair to say that SF had some influence on that happening. SDLP supporters are more conservative and I don't think they would actually have pushed very hard for abortion.0 -
FrancieBrady wrote: »I actually think, given they are dealing with one of the most fundamentalist and culturally bigoted parties in western Europe in Northern Ireland that they have done spectacularly well.
They spent 20 years advancing NI back to normality (other parties were involved in what is technically a 5 party coalition as well) and they have delivered (even though they had to walk away) for Irish language SSM and womens's right, they have worked hard at normalising parades, the flying of flags. They have worked at creating and monitoring a newly structured police force ALL the people can have some confidence in. And most recently have aligned North and South on Brexit and Covid. They were talking about special status and treatment of NI in Brexit long before the government here were and spoke on it in the Dáíl and Europe.
Yes, they dealt with the important issue of the Irish language, while their social welfare rates fell far behind the South, while the health and education systems became paler and paler pathetic comparisons to the South, and while their homeless problems escalated far beyond that of the South. On Brexit, they opted very early on for one of the lesser options that will do great damage to our society and economy purely because it fitted their warped nationalist view, rather than it was for the best. When dealing with one of the most culturally bigoted parties in Europe, it was merely looking in the mirror.
So, we can rely on Sinn Fein to do the right thing by the Irish language, but make a mess of everything else.0 -
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FrancieBrady wrote: »I have rarely read a post like that tbh.
There was 20 years of government before the executive shut down...you want to ignore that to focus on a 3 year hiatus. Fair enough. Are you in denial that the DUP walked away from a deal that would have seen it get back to work. Are you in denial that the SoS blamed the DUP solely for being the block to it getting up and running again?
If you think a party that puts it's own religious morals (which are fundamentalist in nature) in front of the rights of all the citizens is not fundamentalist then there is nothing I can say or do that is gonna change that. If you believe a party that cannot stomach cultural rights that everyone else in the UK has is not culturally bigoted...go ahead. There isn't much can be done for you.
I will remind you that it was you who 'pointed' the finger at SF. You haven't addressed a single achievement outlined in my post. Then you tried to pivot to a UI. :rolleyes:
Achievements?
There is no standalone Irish language Act, and there won't be. Westminister introduced SSM.
They haven't achieved a single thing in their own right.0
This discussion has been closed.
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