Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Runaways

Mortelaro wrote: »

Are land lords not to be thought of at all?
Many of them use property as a pension fund
Are people with private pensions to be discarded or not thought of?
How apartheid of you

Landlords who depend on second properties for their income are literally a parasite and what’s wrong with the current system
FFFG depend on this class for the vote on this most recent election expose
Them on this and that is why they Took a hiding in the election and will continue to do so until they change their ways and represent everybody not just the landowners

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, they dealt with the important issue of the Irish language, while their social welfare rates fell far behind the South,

This has been factchecked since Varadkar made a similar claim than you are.

This is perhaps the crucial piece of context, and it is true. Benefit rates are determined by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and are uniform throughout the UK.

Therefore, the Northern Ireland Executive, in which Sinn Féin has had ministers since the Good Friday Agreement in 1998, does not have any say in welfare rates, including Jobseeker’s Allowance.

So while Leo Varadkar’s claim is certainly true, it does not support any criticism of Sinn Féin, in this respect.

while the health and education systems became paler and paler pathetic comparisons to the South,

Yet when it comes to a debate on a UI the Health service in NI is held up as a reason they won't opt for the much worse service in the south?

and while their homeless problems escalated far beyond that of the South.

Again, something the FG leader claimed is echoed by you, curiously. This has also been factchecked. The Irish Times found Leo's claim to be False.

False. While the official figures are that just under 20,000 households presented as homeless in Northern Ireland in 2018, only 12,512 met the legal requirements of homelessness and were accepted as “full duty applicants”.

It is simply not possible to compare the two systems - or sets of figures - because of the significant differences in approach, methodology and criteria.

On Brexit, they opted very early on for one of the lesser options that will do great damage to our society and economy purely because it fitted their warped nationalist view, rather than it was for the best. When dealing with one of the most culturally bigoted parties in Europe, it was merely looking in the mirror.

WHAT?
They lobbied the Irish government to ensure that NI was given special treatment in Breixit and per the GFA. This is what happened, even though Enda Kenny rejected it initially. You failed on this before.

So, we can rely on Sinn Fein to do the right thing by the Irish language, but make a mess of everything else.

Across this entire site on many threads you denigrate the place of the Irish Language, or you see no importance in it. That is your view but it is certainly not everyone's view thankfully and many many many people are happy with what was achieved.

armaghlad

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, they dealt with the important issue of the Irish language, while their social welfare rates fell far behind the South, while the health and education systems became paler and paler pathetic comparisons to the South, and while their homeless problems escalated far beyond that of the South. On Brexit, they opted very early on for one of the lesser options that will do great damage to our society and economy purely because it fitted their warped nationalist view, rather than it was for the best. When dealing with one of the most culturally bigoted parties in Europe, it was merely looking in the mirror.

So, we can rely on Sinn Fein to do the right thing by the Irish language, but make a mess of everything else.

Absolute lies Jesus Christ.

Yeah_Right

Runaways wrote: »

Landlords who depend on second properties for their income are literally a parasite and what’s wrong with the current system

So who do you think should own and maintain the property for renters?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

They haven't achieved a single thing in their own right.

A subtle wee change there I see.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have rarely read a post like that tbh.
There was 20 years of government before the executive shut down...you want to ignore that to focus on a 3 year hiatus. Fair enough. Are you in denial that the DUP walked away from a deal that would have seen it get back to work. Are you in denial that the SoS blamed the DUP solely for being the block to it getting up and running again?

If you think a party that puts it's own religious morals (which are fundamentalist in nature) in front of the rights of all the citizens is not fundamentalist then there is nothing I can say or do that is gonna change that. If you believe a party that cannot stomach cultural rights that everyone else in the UK has is not culturally bigoted...go ahead. There isn't much can be done for you.



I will remind you that it was you who 'pointed' the finger at SF. You haven't addressed a single achievement outlined in my post. Then you tried to pivot to a UI. :rolleyes:

Did I ask you about the DUP. If you want to discuss them maybe start a DUP thread.

What achievement for Sinn Fein?

I asked to discuss Sinn Fein on a Sinn Fein thread, not sure how that can be classed as pointing the finger.

Redgirl82

Runaways wrote: »

Landlords who depend on second properties for their income are literally a parasite and what’s wrong with the current system
FFFG depend on this class for the vote on this most recent election expose
Them on this and that is why they Took a hiding in the election and will continue to do so until they change their ways and represent everybody not just the landowners

Now I am confused, so you want a landlord who doesn't want to make a profit out of renting the property?

Mortelaro

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So who do you think should own and maintain the property for renters?

Jack in the beanstalk of the magic money tree of course

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Did I ask you about the DUP. If you want to discuss them maybe start a DUP thread.

What achievement for Sinn Fein?

I asked to discuss Sinn Fein on a Sinn Fein thread, not sure how that can be classed as pointing the finger.

:D:D:D dear lord.

jm08

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I think I read before you said Sinn Fein had no power up the North and it was all driven either by the DUP or by Westminster? Now you are saying they have done all of the above in the North?

So which is it? Do Sinn Fein have power in the North for which they should be recognised for the positives?

Have you not noticed that the DUP had the British Government by the short and curlies for the last couple of years and it certainly didn't suit them to bring politics back to Stormont.


Stormont is powerless because it does not have tax raising abilities. For instance, they are unable to compete with us on corporate tax rates and for investment within the UK with England and Scotland. If the IDA want to attract a company to Ireland they can roll out any number of Government Ministers who actually are decision makers.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D:D dear lord.

You can pray all you want but if you are incapable of answering a simple question it suggest as expected that Sinn Fein have done very little in North

jm08

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Now I am confused, so you want a landlord who doesn't want to make a profit out of renting the property?

No, I want people to be able to buy their own homes like I was back in the 80s.

One of the incentives I had to buy my own home was that I was paying an awful lot of tax as well as paying rent. With tax incentives and grants, it was worth my while buying my own home.

Incidentally, a work colleague got a council house at the time - we would both have been earning about the same, but he had a wife and child to support.

Back in the 50s/60s, when Ireland was very, very poor with a huge amount of emigration, it managed to build thousands of council houses all over the country. If they could do it then, I don't know why they can't do it now.

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

You can pray all you want but if you are incapable of answering a simple question it suggest as expected that Sinn Fein have done very little in North

I have answered and am awaiting your fact based counter argument.

I pray for someone who thinks you can discuss politics without the mention of other parties. And I'll continue.

Redgirl82

jm08 wrote: »

No, I want people to be able to buy their own homes like I was back in the 80s.

One of the incentives I had to buy my own home was that I was paying an awful lot of tax as well as paying rent. With tax incentives and grants, it was worth my while buying my own home.

Incidentally, a work colleague got a council house at the time - we would both have been earning about the same, but he had a wife and child to support.

Back in the 50s/60s, when Ireland was very, very poor with a huge amount of emigration, it managed to build thousands of council houses all over the country. If they could do it then, I don't know why they can't do it now.

How many house got built in the 50/60s compared to now? are we building less? I don't know so asking

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have answered and am awaiting your fact based counter argument.

I pray for someone who thinks you can discuss politics without the mention of other parties. And I'll continue.

You haven't answered anything.

Maybe you think that is an answer but it's not. All you did was complain about another political party. Maybe you could answer the question in a post without the need to mention another political party. Is it that difficult?

blanch152

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Did I ask you about the DUP. If you want to discuss them maybe start a DUP thread.

What achievement for Sinn Fein?

I asked to discuss Sinn Fein on a Sinn Fein thread, not sure how that can be classed as pointing the finger.

Sinn Fein nearly achieved a stand-alone Irish language act in the North......eh........em.........let me see..............I think there is more...........no, actually, that is it.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This has been factchecked since Varadkar made a similar claim than you are.


Yet when it comes to a debate on a UI the Health service in NI is held up as a reason they won't opt for the much worse service in the south?
Again, something the FG leader claimed is echoed by you, curiously. This has also been factchecked. The Irish Times found Leo's claim to be False.

WHAT?
They lobbied the Irish government to ensure that NI was given special treatment in Breixit and per the GFA. This is what happened, even though Enda Kenny rejected it initially. You failed on this before.



Across this entire site on many threads you denigrate the place of the Irish Language, or you see no importance in it. That is your view but it is certainly not everyone's view thankfully and many many many people are happy with what was achieved.

Still nothing in that setting out what Sinn Fein have achieved. West Belfast is one of the most deprived places in the whole of the EU, and it has been represented by Sinn Fein for at least 30 years. Making everyone equally poor and miserable is an achievement?

IBEC lobbies, is that all Sinn Fein are, a lobby group?

jm08

Redgirl82 wrote: »

How many house got built in the 50/60s compared to now? are we building less? I don't know so asking

I don't know the exact number, but on our family farm, 10 county council houses were built then. Most of the people who got those would have been farm labourers. If you look around the countryside, most those cottages were built in the 50s/60s.


Ballyfermot, Crumlin, Cabra, Donnycarney etc., were all built just after the war. Ballymun flats were built in the 60s.

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

You haven't answered anything.

Maybe you think that is an answer but it's not. All you did was complain about another political party. Maybe you could answer the question in a post without the need to mention another political party. Is it that difficult?

Not another single party mentioned here.
It isn't enough to say, I am wrong. You need to show that they were not the primary movers on enacting or getting these things in place. Who brought pressure on Westminster for instance etc if it wasn't SF. .

They spent 20 years advancing NI back to normality (other parties were involved in what is technically a 5 party coalition as well) and they have delivered (even though they had to walk away) for Irish language SSM and womens's right, they have worked hard at normalising parades, the flying of flags. They have worked at creating and monitoring a newly structured police force ALL the people can have some confidence in. And most recently have aligned North and South on Brexit and Covid. They were talking about special status and treatment of NI in Brexit long before the government here were and spoke on it in the Dáíl and Europe.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

Still nothing in that setting out what Sinn Fein have achieved. West Belfast is one of the most deprived places in the whole of the EU, and it has been represented by Sinn Fein for at least 30 years. Making everyone equally poor and miserable is an achievement?

IBEC lobbies, is that all Sinn Fein are, a lobby group?

Its an extremely traumatised population. Its just amazing that NI have have the mental health budget that of England and they haven't been sitting in the middle of a civil war for 30 years.
This article will give you an idea of the problems.


https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/suicide-is-like-an-epidemic-here-in-west-belfast-there-s-about-one-a-week-1.4103435

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Still nothing in that setting out what Sinn Fein have achieved. West Belfast is one of the most deprived places in the whole of the EU, and it has been represented by Sinn Fein for at least 30 years. Making everyone equally poor and miserable is an achievement?

IBEC lobbies, is that all Sinn Fein are, a lobby group?

Gets fact checked on his falsehoods and pivots to something else.

Again-Facts. There is deprivation all over NI that is indeed a failure. There are 7 other areas more deprived than West Belfast in the stats.

Clearly it isn't a singular failure by SF to solve that, it is an ongoing problem for society there as whole as deprived areas are everywhere.
Nobody suggested SF are miracle workers or that they are in possession of magic wands or indeed that they haven't failed in some regards.

The notion propounded by you from your usual Shinner soapbox, that they have achieved nothing has been shown to be a lazy trope...yet again.

Edgware

Redgirl82 wrote: »

No, did I say I was? just find it strange that some posters seem to find it necessary to discuss other political parties. Would it not make sense to discuss those parties on the thread about them?

Sinn Fein get accused of always pointing the finger, is that a correct assumption?

Better than pointing a rifle anyway

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gets fact checked on his falsehoods and pivots to something else.

Again-Facts. There is deprivation all over NI that is indeed a failure. There are 7 other areas more deprived than West Belfast in the stats.

Clearly it isn't a singular failure by SF to solve that, it is an ongoing problem for society there as whole as deprived areas are everywhere.
Nobody suggested SF are miracle workers or that they are in possession of magic wands or indeed that they haven't failed in some regards.

The notion propounded by you from your usual Shinner soapbox, that they have achieved nothing has been shown to be a lazy trope...yet again.

I am still waiting for a single achievement of Sinn Fein. Lobbying others to do something isn't an achievement, especially if it is something they would have done anyway (e.g. drop the best Brexit outcome - SM and CU - when it became unachievable and drop to a lower possible outcome).

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I am still waiting for a single achievement of Sinn Fein. Lobbying others to do something isn't an achievement, especially if it is something they would have done anyway (e.g. drop the best Brexit outcome - SM and CU - when it became unachievable and drop to a lower possible outcome).

Gas. You sound like an even more begrudging Jim Allister...if that were possible.

By your reckoning, nobody has 'achieved' anything for NI. It all just happened...because 'it would have anyway'?

I suppose by the same token nobody can take pride in achieving SSM and women's right here in the south?

Society in NI has changed unrecognisably to what it was when the GFA was signed.
Society in northern Ireland has come dramatically nearer to being a normal one and that has been achieved by those who pressured, voted, and lobbied for it despite petitions of concern being invoked and stubbornness.

But then I remember you are the poster who reckoned that northern nationalists should have just put up with the oppression and bigotry and sectarian governance and waited for the British to get around to being democrats.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

I am still waiting for a single achievement of Sinn Fein. Lobbying others to do something isn't an achievement, especially if it is something they would have done anyway (e.g. drop the best Brexit outcome - SM and CU - when it became unachievable and drop to a lower possible outcome).

So, its thanks to Michel Barnier only that there isn't a Border on the island. It had nothing to do with the lobbying of other EU countries & the US by the Irish Government/Dept of Foreign Affairs?


Why is everyone praising them for that then?

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

So, its thanks to Michel Barnier only that there isn't a Border on the island. It had nothing to do with the lobbying of other EU countries & the US by the Irish Government/Dept of Foreign Affairs?


Why is everyone praising them for that then?

Go back to the early Brexit threads and blanch was, like the DUP, trenchant in opposing a sea border.
I think it may be sour grapes that NI did achieve special treatment and 'perish the thought' SF wanted that from the outset.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not another single party mentioned here.
It isn't enough to say, I am wrong. You need to show that they were not the primary movers on enacting or getting these things in place. Who brought pressure on Westminster for instance etc if it wasn't SF. .

You even had to edit your own post to delete the mention of someone else.

Then in the response you mention Westminster. Baffling.

I don't need to show anything by the way. I have asked you a question. You do understand that. This is a Sinn Fein thread and you are a Sinn Fein supporter, if you can't answer then just admit it and move on....

jm08

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go back to the early Brexit threads and blanch was, like the DUP, trenchant in opposing a sea border.
I think it may be sour grapes that NI did achieve special treatment and 'perish the thought' SF wanted that from the outset.

Yes, I remember the letter Martin McGuinness & Arlene wrote requesting special status for NI. Arlene changed her mind afterwards though, and now we have what was suggested in the first place.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gas. You sound like an even more begrudging Jim Allister...if that were possible.

By your reckoning, nobody has 'achieved' anything for NI. It all just happened...because 'it would have anyway'?

I suppose by the same token nobody can take pride in achieving SSM and women's right here in the south?

Society in NI has changed unrecognisably to what it was when the GFA was signed.
Society in northern Ireland has come dramatically nearer to being a normal one and that has been achieved by those who pressured, voted, and lobbied for it despite petitions of concern being invoked and stubbornness.

But then I remember you are the poster who reckoned that northern nationalists should have just put up with the oppression and bigotry and sectarian governance and waited for the British to get around to being democrats.

What are you talking about? Nobody said anything about the people of Northern Ireland putting up with oppression. If the best you can come up with is hyperbole then just admit it.

Your off on another rant post with nothing behind it. The Good Friday Agreement was incredible for all of Ireland. The result of which has made huge changes in Northern Ireland.

But the question is what has Sinn Fein done to build on that? As you rightly pointed out earlier they are in power sharing agreement and they have control in North. So what have they done with it?

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go back to the early Brexit threads and blanch was, like the DUP, trenchant in opposing a sea border.
I think it may be sour grapes that NI did achieve special treatment and 'perish the thought' SF wanted that from the outset.

If SF took its seats in Westminster, only tactically temporarily there would have been a 2nd referendum and no Brexit at all