Is it just me or have SF vanished?

jm08

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Your off on another rant post with nothing behind it. The Good Friday Agreement was incredible for all of Ireland. The result of which has made huge changes in Northern Ireland.

But the question is what has Sinn Fein done to build on that? As you rightly pointed out earlier they are in power sharing agreement and they have control in North. So what have they done with it?

Why do you think so many people vote for them in Northern Ireland if they have done nothing? Why are they not voting for the SDLP?

Edit: First Assembly Elections 1998: SDLP 24 seats; SF 18. 2017 Elections: 12 SDLP; SF 27.

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

You even had to edit your own post to delete the mention of someone else.

Then in the response you mention Westminster. Baffling.

I don't need to show anything by the way. I have asked you a question. You do understand that. This is a Sinn Fein thread and you are a Sinn Fein supporter, if you can't answer then just admit it and move on....

I edited the post to fix the quote tags. What 'name' did I remove?

And now I cannot mention Westminister when discussing NI? I hope to live until the day that that is not necessary.

I listed the achievements. I will bullet point them for clarity, in case that is your issue.
They have delivered/achieved:
1. Irish language Rights
2. SSM
3. Women's Rights
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust.
5. An all island approach to Brexit.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19
7. Reductions in contentious parades
8. Normalised the flying of flags

Just some of the things that SF can take credit for being involved in. And nobody is denying that they have also failed in other areas.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I edited the post to fix the quote tags. What 'name' did I remove?

And now I cannot mention Westminister when discussing NI? I hope to live until the day that that is not necessary.

I listed the achievements. I will bullet point them for clarity, in case that is your issue.
They have delivered/achieved:
1. Irish language Rights
2. SSM
3. Women's Rights
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust.
5. An all island approach to Brexit.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19
7. Reductions in contentious parades
8. Normalised the flying of flags

Just some of the things that SF can take credit for being involved in. And nobody is denying that they have also failed in other areas.

Sorry not aware of some of these. Maybe could you provide some more information.

1. Irish language Rights - Do people speak Irish in Northern Ireland? what percentage?
2. SSM - ?????
3. Women's Rights - I guess you mean Abortion. According to this Westminster brought in the law because the Northern Assembly was on holidays? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50125124
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust. - this is what exactly?
5. An all island approach to Brexit. - I got lost on this, all I heard was backstop and to be honest I though most of this was done the EU.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19 - but we don't have an All Ireland approach. It's been a disaster. Look at the cases along the border.
7. Reductions in contentious parades - No idea who arrange the parades committee
8. Normalised the flying of flags - what now?

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Sorry not aware of some of these. Maybe could you provide some more information.

1. Irish language Rights - Do people speak Irish in Northern Ireland? what percentage?
2. SSM - ?????
3. Women's Rights - I guess you mean Abortion. According to this Westminster brought in the law because the Northern Assembly was on holidays? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50125124
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust. - this is what exactly?
5. An all island approach to Brexit. - I got lost on this, all I heard was backstop and to be honest I though most of this was done the EU.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19 - but we don't have an All Ireland approach. It's been a disaster. Look at the cases along the border.
7. Reductions in contentious parades - No idea who arrange the parades committee
8. Normalised the flying of flags - what now?

You are not aware of them and you are pronouncing that they have achieved nothing?

Priceless.

And NO. Find out yourself about them...it'll be educational.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are not aware of them and you are pronouncing that they have achieved nothing?

Priceless.

And NO. Find out yourself about them...it'll be educational.

Sorry I have googled, looked around and nothing is listed.

So based on all news media this is just made up list of things. So why didn't you say that in first place?

Best you could come up with is an imaginary list, after all of your posts. Fairly poor showing from Sinn Fein up the North. Remind me why are you voting for them again?

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Sorry I have googled, looked around and nothing is listed.

So based on all news media this is just made up list of things. So why didn't you say that in first place?

Best you could come up with is an imaginary list, after all of your posts. Fairly poor showing from Sinn Fein up the North. Remind me why are you voting for them again?

Sure, I 'made up' the delivery of 'Irish Language Rights, SSM, and Women's Rights after years of pressure and attempts to have them passed by the Executive but thwarted by the DUP and UUP and TUV using Petitions of Concern.

I made up the Reform of Policing in Northern Ireland
I 'made up' what happened with Brexit and the avoidance of a Hard Border.
I 'made up' the establishing of an all Ireland body to manage Covid-19
I 'made up' the reduction in contentious parading
I 'made up' the normalising of flag flying.

As I come-back or response, it doesn't lack uniqueness anyway Redgirl...just pretend the above never happened.

Redgirl82

So now we have established the poor record in the North for Sinn Fein. Thanks to Francie for confirmation. Might have been easier if he just admitted at the start but anyway got to it in end.

Maybe we can come back to the 2020 election manifesto. Anyone have comments from my post earlier on thread, sorry it got derailed but I expect that happens a lot on this thread.

Yeah_Right

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Sorry not aware of some of these. Maybe could you provide some more information.

1. Irish language Rights - Do people speak Irish in Northern Ireland? what percentage?
2. SSM - ?????
3. Women's Rights - I guess you mean Abortion. According to this Westminster brought in the law because the Northern Assembly was on holidays? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50125124
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust. - this is what exactly?
5. An all island approach to Brexit. - I got lost on this, all I heard was backstop and to be honest I though most of this was done the EU.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19 - but we don't have an All Ireland approach. It's been a disaster. Look at the cases along the border.
7. Reductions in contentious parades - No idea who arrange the parades committee
8. Normalised the flying of flags - what now?

Surely you know by now that when things change, its because of Sinn Fein and ONLY Sinn Fein. No one else. Just Sinn Fein.

When things don't change its because of someone else. Anyone else. There's a long list of people and groups who are stopping them.

:rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Surely you know by now that when things change, its because of Sinn Fein and ONLY Sinn Fein. No one else. Just Sinn Fein.

When things don't change its because of someone else. Anyone else. There's a long list of people and groups who are stopping them.

:rolleyes:

Jaysus Yeah_right are you going to hitch yourself to that point of view?

I have said and fully admitted that SF have failed also btw. The question was to 'list achievements'.

jm08

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Sorry not aware of some of these. Maybe could you provide some more information.

1. Irish language Rights - Do people speak Irish in Northern Ireland? what percentage?
2. SSM - ?????
3. Women's Rights - I guess you mean Abortion. According to this Westminster brought in the law because the Northern Assembly was on holidays? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50125124
4. Pushing reform of a policing service that all can trust. - this is what exactly?
5. An all island approach to Brexit. - I got lost on this, all I heard was backstop and to be honest I though most of this was done the EU.
6. An All island approach to Covid 19 - but we don't have an All Ireland approach. It's been a disaster. Look at the cases along the border.
7. Reductions in contentious parades - No idea who arrange the parades committee
8. Normalised the flying of flags - what now?

I think you should read up about the 'Petition of Concern' which might help you understand why it is so difficult to get legislation through the Stormont Assembly.


On Marriage Equality legislation, the DUP used the Petition of Concern 5 times to block legislation in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015.


https://www.thedetail.tv/articles/stormont-s-petition-of-concern-used-115-times-in-five-years


The DUP have used this legislation 82 times and 4 times out of that has been with other parties. SF & SDLP have used it 29 times each.

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

I think you should read up about the 'Petition of Concern' which might help you understand why it is so difficult to get legislation through the Stormont Assembly.


On Marriage Equality legislation, the DUP used the Petition of Concern 5 times to block legislation in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015.


https://www.thedetail.tv/articles/stormont-s-petition-of-concern-used-115-times-in-five-years


The DUP have used this legislation 82 times and 4 times out of that has been with other parties. SF & SDLP have used it 29 times each.

You are banging your head off a wall here I think.

I cannot believe that somebody is so uninformed as to not know that detail while pretending to have an understanding of who has done what or not in NI. Utterly mind boggling.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are banging your head off a wall here I think.

I cannot believe that somebody is so uninformed as to not know that detail while pretending to have an understanding of who has done what or not in NI. Utterly mind boggling.

Whats mind boggling is the amount of posts you have on this thread so far today and majority have nothing of interest on them.

Based on your lack of ability to answer simple questions I think you are the uninformed one. So far you have either pointed the finger at other parties or pulled a list out of thin air as "evidence".

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Whats mind boggling is the amount of posts you have on this thread so far today and majority have nothing of interest on them.

How many posts now have you made snide little comments against me?

Based on your lack of ability to answer simple questions I think you are the uninformed one. So far you have either pointed the finger at other parties or pulled a list out of thin air as "evidence".

If somebody denies that things have happened, that did happen then I think it fair to say somebody trying to convince you otherwise with links to actual facts are banging their head off a wall.

You cannot do that - deny something happened - and be taken seriously in any debate or discussion.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If somebody denies that things have happened, that did happen then anybody trying to convince a person like that with 'facts' and links to them, then I think it fair to say they are banging their head off a wall.

You cannot do that - deny something happened - and be taken seriously in any debate or discussion.

Another post, nothing of interest. Does this normal work? just bore people to death?

Redgirl82

As your rubbish is starting to get tiresome. Let get back to my post. Maybe you can comment on this. Please try and post about Sinn Fein and not another party

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Post would have been good apart from all the attacks on every other party. Would you not leave it out and just discuss Sinn Fein. It is really annoying because you don't need it. Is it too much to ask?

So lets look at the numbers first. You have concentrated on housing, one of the issues in this country but this seems to be the focus from Sinn Fein. So a 1,500 tax credit. 279 million, no idea if that is available in budget or not. Not much detail in manifesto of where the money is coming from.

The 100,000 houses is bulls**t. It's taking 50,000 houses already been built and then saying they will build another 50,000. Even the model they propose for the 50,000 houses is untested in large number and really based on a lot of fantasy. Most of the numbers would be at best "back of the fag box" which zero overhead included. No project in the World, especially building will not hit issues. It's not like builders will offer them fixed prices. So the whole housing manifesto is a big lie. If they at least turned around and said best case it is X but in reality it will cost Y they might get some credit. But the numbers they have are unachievable.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/election-2020-is-sinn-f%C3%A9in-s-housing-policy-credible-1.4163859

So then we move to the rent freeze. Which just seems to be a blanket rent freeze across the entire sector. No thought again gone into this. Not everywhere in Ireland is Dublin. You have landlords at the moment who are under the mortgage repayment and have tenants in place. They are suddenly hit with a freeze? they will have to sell up.

You also have more and more health and safety requirements been driven into landlord. A majority of them are not important but come at a huge cost. This is just another kick in the teeth for the landlord. What Sinn Fein does not realise if every landlord in Ireland is not a multi millionaire, a lot of these guys are struggling. All this will do is drive these landlord out of the market and create more issues. Again this looks like something they came up with down the pub. No thought gone into it.

Read the manifesto, it is all stuff you could come up with down the pub with the lads. Nothing has any back up details. No "what if". This shows the had no interest in it, Sinn Fen expected to get another hammering at the polls.

You and other Sinn Fein voter keep going back to young people voted for Sinn Fein because of XYZ. No they didn't, just look at the type of politician got voted in, ask on the street now about the Sinn Fein Manifesto and majority never read it or have any intention of reading it. They voted Sinn Fein as a protest. Simple as that. This should be Sinn Fein time, but from my position they know the manifesto is unachievable so instead of pushing to get into government and then not been able to deliver. They are hiding in the long grass and then waiting till someone else gets into power. In this scenario they never have to answer how they would deliver their manifesto but they can continue to point towards a document which was never achievable.

I also disagree with the no track record, Sinn Fein have been in power sharing in the North. I know Sinn Fein won't be using it as a reference but that is the current track record. Which to be honest, has been an absolute disaster, so another reason why you should stop pointing fingers

Maybe you disagree? of course respond. This time maybe stick to Sinn Fein and quit with the guff about the other parties

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Another post, nothing of interest. Does this normal work? just bore people to death?

Ah, you are bored now, because you got a list of achievments and cannot refute them only pretend they never happened because you cannot find them on Goggle.
You gloss over another poster's link and carry on denying.

Very good, have at it.

James Brown

Redgirl82 wrote: »

As your rubbish is starting to get tiresome. Let get back to my post. Maybe you can comment on this. Please try and post about Sinn Fein and not another party

As regards:

I also disagree with the no track record, Sinn Fein have been in power sharing in the North. I know Sinn Fein won't be using it as a reference but that is the current track record. Which to be honest, has been an absolute disaster, so another reason why you should stop pointing fingers

SF have a track record down south. You just need look at policies they supported or argued against. That will give you something to go on.
Then you have their election manifesto.
Going out of the jurisdiction and looking at a completely different form of governing isn't comparable. Personally I think the whole Stormont/westminister set up is a bit of a sh*t show.
I give SF a nod because the say they intend to stop throwing money at the private market to tackle the housing crisis and intend to build more social and affordable. That's enough for me to give them a vote.

McMurphy

As regards leo and the sw payments up north spoof - I'll try and find it but iirc there was a member from the Welsh assembly tweeting the very next day about how the Irish leader mistakenly believed SF/DUP had any influence on its rate whatsoever.

I'll try dig the tweet out, but he said something along the lines of they (in the north) had no more ability to alter the rates than the Scottish Parliament or Welsh assembly did.

Leo knew what he was doing, playing to his audience.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

As regards leo and the sw payments up north spoof - I'll try and find it but iirc there was a member from the Welsh assembly tweeting the very next day about how the Irish leader mistakenly believed SF/DUP had any influence on its rate whatsoever.

I'll try dig the tweet out, but he said something along the lines of they (in the north) had no more ability to alter the rates than the Scottish Parliament or Welsh assembly did.

Leo knew what he was doing, playing to his audience.

Same as he did in his wee rant in the Dail. Lied for effect.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Same as he did in his wee rant in the Dail. Lied for effect.

What did he lie about exactly and has the Dáil record been corrected to remove this lie ?

Dank Janniels

Genuine question- any progress report on a SF Government formation?

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

What did he lie about exactly and has the Dáil record been corrected to remove this lie ?

That only for the Tory's, NI would be worse.

I doubt you could even get the most belligerent Unionist to agree with you on that today.

The minimun wage being in SF's control another one.

atticu

Dank Janniels wrote: »

Genuine question- any progress report on a SF Government formation?

I would love to know.

I have not read anything in the papers about their progress.

The people voted for change, SF now need to deliver on their campaign promise.

James Brown

atticu wrote: »

I would love to know.

I have not read anything in the papers about their progress.

The people voted for change, SF now need to deliver on their campaign promise.

Last I heard was PBP sending the letter.
Like the SD's, I'd rather a party picked partners that suit than just trying to obtain power. I think PBP and SF would be a match.

FrancieBrady

Bowie wrote: »

Last I heard was PBP sending the letter.
Like the SD's, I'd rather a party picked partners that suit than just trying to obtain power. I think PBP and SF would be a match.

I think SF responded to set up some talks.

jm08

Mortelaro wrote: »

What did he lie about exactly and has the Dáil record been corrected to remove this lie ?

Leo said that : jobseekers was much higher in ROI than in NI where SF were in Government for a very long time.

The first part is true, the second part is that SF have no control over the rates.

https://www.thejournal.ie/jobseekers-payments-northern-ireland-republic-comparison-3019455-Oct2016/

Sinn Féin do not set the welfare rates. They are set in Westminster, as I pointed out during the exchange.

Redgirl82

Bowie wrote: »

As regards:



SF have a track record down south. You just need look at policies they supported or argued against. That will give you something to go on.
Then you have their election manifesto.
Going out of the jurisdiction and looking at a completely different form of governing isn't comparable. Personally I think the whole Stormont/westminister set up is a bit of a sh*t show.
I give SF a nod because the say they intend to stop throwing money at the private market to tackle the housing crisis and intend to build more social and affordable. That's enough for me to give them a vote.

But the housing section in the Sinn Fein manifesto is not achievable, this was pointed out by plenty of people. So why would you vote for something which wasn't worth the paper it was written on?

FrancieBrady

Redgirl82 wrote: »

But the housing section in the Sinn Fein manifesto is not achievable, this was pointed out by plenty of people. So why would you vote for something which wasn't worth the paper it was written on?

There hasn't been a manifesto seen through since the foundation of the state. They have been completely devalued by the power swap parties. Worse than estate agents glossy brouchures.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah, you are bored now, because you got a list of achievments and cannot refute them only pretend they never happened because you cannot find them on Goggle.
You gloss over another poster's link and carry on denying.

Very good, have at it.

You got asked a question, you never answered it. Move on. I would say it's not the first and won't be the last.

Redgirl82

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There hasn't been a manifesto seen through since the foundation of the state. They have been completely devalued by the power swap parties. Worse than estate agents glossy brouchures.

Did I ask about other people manifesto's? Sinn Fein thread. Thanks