Is it just me or have SF vanished?

mattser

mattser wrote: »

Nice to see someone looking past their veneer. Fact is they have achieved nothing , as you rightly say. And they're spooked by the thoughts of responsibility.
Wasting your time.

Personally i think,this hurlers on the ditch critism,is no, longer valid,since FFG have blocked them from government


(As is 100% their right to refuse to go in with them,but its pure hyprocrisy to cry hurler on ditch at em too imo)

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Personally i think,this hurlers on the ditch critism,is no, longer valid,since FFG have blocked them from government


(As is 100% their right to refuse to go in with them,but its pure hyprocrisy to cry hurler on ditch at em too imo)

FG will 'relish' going into opposition for 5 years as if it is something noble...and it is, but when it comes to SF in opposition, they are 'hurlers on the ditch'.
I think their performance in fulfilling the role of 'opposition' here is another huge achievement. The work done on calling the previous government and arms of the state to account by SF and others in Committee has been exceptional.
'Opposition' is a vital function in any democracy.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG will 'relish' going into opposition for 5 years as if it is something noble...and it is, but when it comes to SF in opposition, they are 'hurlers on the ditch'.
I think their performance in fulfilling the role of 'opposition' here is another huge achievement. The work done on calling the previous government and arms of the state to account by SF and others in Committee has been exceptional.
'Opposition' is a vital function in any democracy.

Though it has enabled ffg to label homelessness/housing issues a partisan/ party political issue,

which is wrong too and afaik only country in world,where this is the case....

Its time to step up as FFG will just leave it fester for another 5 years and do fcuk all to sort it.....homeless figures trebeled in last 5 years,if they trebele again,it will be a near insurmontable problem

Mortelaro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its time to step up as FFG will just leave it fester for another 5 years and do fcuk all to sort it.....homeless figures trebeled in last 5 years,if they trebele again,it will be a near insurmontable problem

They're worse in the north though,in an area where SF *could* do something and didn't
The reality is SF rode a wave of protest votes at the last election and blew it,mainly because the non protest vote still out weighed the protest vote
They now have to wait 5 years if government talks conclude successfully
If that government doesn't tackle the protest issues it will be stupid
SF will want to hope they are

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

like you ignored my listing of SF's achievements...you pretended that because you couldn't find them on google that they never happened.
.

The poster is correct, they didn't happen, or other people were responsible.

Westminister improved women's rights.
Westminister brought in SSM.
There is no standalone Irish language act.
They brought down Stormont for three years for nothing, while nurses didn't get their pay increase.
The FG government negotiated for Ireland on Brexit.

Nothing on that list was an achievement of Sinn Fein.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

This has what to do with a housing crisis.....facts stand,when we were on our knees as a country we could build social housing and clear tenaments

It was cheaper and easier to build two up two down houses on cheap land very much closer to the city centre. Good luck getting that type of housing built now a days.

Building houses is not the same as it was 60 years ago, and my point was people like yourself harking back to some "golden age' where problems were fixed by easy slogans.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't mention the 'big ticket' items because they more or less function like they do here.

You didn't mention them because the stats are horrible.

The North does worse in all facets when it comes to the big-ticket items.

Education is worse than the south, the economy is in a hole, health is arguably in a worse crisis than the south and unemployment were always higher than in the south..... and to top it all off, the entire region is addicted to money from London as if they are a heroin dealer.

The region cannot sustain itself, London won't keep bailing it out forever and we in the South are not going to be too happy footing the bill anytime soon.
But yea, SF sorted out the flag issue.

But there is a finite limit on what anyone can do in the north as it is still a failed entity as a result of partition.

The ultimate get-out clause, its always someone elses fault.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

It was cheaper and easier to build two up two down houses on cheap land very much closer to the city centre. Good luck getting that type of housing built now a days.

Building houses is not the same as it was 60 years ago, and my point was people like yourself harking back to some "golden age' where problems were fixed by easy slogans.

Has house building somehow become more difficult,get on with it imo

Its been let fester with too long

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I did. All your 'solutions' will achieve is a reduced take in rent and more people without homes.

One solution. Increase the LPT and use this money to fund Social housing.
Is that something you would agree with Francie?

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Has house building somehow become more difficult,get on with it imo

In a word yes.

Land is more expensive
Way more regulations and environmental considerations to go through
Planning permissions is a minefield
We dont tax existing homeowners the rates we used to back then.
EU Competition law also has something to say about all this
All new houses, by law now need to be A2 minium. That does not come cheap.

Nevermind that we have much more immigration today and the need for higher density, which pisses off existing home owners.

It's like saying a car build in 2020 is the same as the car built-in 1960. Sure its a chassis, an enginee and 4 four wheels, but we all know that cars today are a hell of a lot smarter and safer than those cars built 60 years ago. Chalk and cheese.

overkill602

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I agree there are some who abuse the system, all systems are abused.
Solving those abuses will go some way to solving the overall issues but won't come near doing that on their own.
It's far too easy to start targeting sections and coming the dictator.

Quoting the ridiculous here


System abuse is ok then
so solving doesn't have a priority
and body pointing it out the obvious is a dictator



I think i can guess your occupation your its in a circus

maccored

Redgirl82 wrote: »

I wasn't debating? I asked a question. Not sure what the confusion is here. I did state a number of times on my post I asked a question. If you ask a question normally you get an answer. I didn't get one so I have come to the conclusion that Sinn Fein record in the North is poor. We can have another two pages from Francie again today and end up exactly in the same place

you are on a thread talking about the north and then admit that since you couldnt find what you needed on google that you thought francie was talking bollocks.

go away with that rubbish. if you have any notion you'll see the two parties hands are tied when it comes to financing the north. they can only try to divvy up what westminister gives them.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

In a word yes.

Land is more expensive
Way more regulations and environmental considerations to go through
Planning permissions is a minefield
We dont tax existing homeowners the rates we used to back then.
EU Competition law also has something to say about all this
All new houses, by law now need to be A2 minium. That does not come cheap.

Nevermind that we have much more immigration today and the need for higher density, which pisses off existing home owners.

It's like saying a car build in 2020 is the same as the car built-in 1960. Sure its a chassis, an enginee and 4 four wheels, but we all know that cars today are a hell of a lot smarter and safer than those cars built 60 years ago. Chalk and cheese.

All this seems circular,they said xy and z couldnt be done with healthcare

Coronavirus come about and show to me,where theres the political will to do a thing and it'll get done


Idk what journalist said it,but they pointed out fg were landlord party and ff developer party....they are too compromised to sort this issue imo

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The poster is correct, they didn't happen, or other people were responsible.

Westminister improved women's rights.

Eveentually after years of pressure and blocs being put in place by fundamentalist Unionism.

Westminister brought in SSM.

Again, you are ignoring for your own petty fear of the boogeymen reasons, the data presented by another poster which shows how many times this legislation was blocked by our old friends the fundamentalist Unionists.

There is no standalone Irish language act.

This from the same guy who taunts that the IRA didn't get the British out. Juvenile and bitter to the last.
Everything that was achieved for nationalists in NI took time and brave and persistent people.

They brought down Stormont for three years for nothing, while nurses didn't get their pay increase.

Yes...sometimes people have to take extreme measures to advance. And what the electorate have now after the hiatus is more rather than less with regard to SSM and Women's rights and the Irish language.

The FG government negotiated for Ireland on Brexit.

Yes, FG changed from Enda's 'no special status' for NI and drew plaudits for standing for all the people of the island..exactly the solution that SF proposed from the beginning...an all island solution if Britain left the EU.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

You didn't mention them because the stats are horrible.

The North does worse in all facets when it comes to the big-ticket items.

Education is worse than the south, the economy is in a hole, health is arguably in a worse crisis than the south and unemployment were always higher than in the south..... and to top it all off, the entire region is addicted to money from London as if they are a heroin dealer.

The region cannot sustain itself, London won't keep bailing it out forever and we in the South are not going to be too happy footing the bill anytime soon.
But yea, SF sorted out the flag issue.



The ultimate get-out clause, its always someone elses fault.

Well, blanch got schooled on who is responsible for some stuff as did Leo.

I presented fact checks on it and blanch went silent.

I fully agree, that the 'region' cannot sustain itself either economically or socially because it has been created artificially and the issues caused by that have never sorted themselves out and show signs of never sorting themselves out.
If you are correct on health and education then that will make unifying the island all the more attractive to those who want better. Somethings aren't fixable because the root problems of why they are how they are, aren't fixable.

Redgirl82

Deleted User wrote: »

Im well past 16,kid....looking at building myself in 2-3 years,(well past hearing about heat recoveries etc )

Im not at fault for you not being aware of what A2 spec amounts to and demanding council houses be built to it


They arent building any of these higher spec housing though??,

the world likely has never been better in last 200 years for CO2 with this lockdown......lads thinking putting underfloor heating into council housrs is gonna save the planet are pure and utter deluded

Of course you are

I am fully aware of the requirements for high rated houses. Just said I never mentioned under floor heating.

The other statement is another baffling one to be honest, you do understand how Co2 works?

FrancieBrady

overkill602 wrote: »

Quoting the ridiculous here


System abuse is ok then
so solving doesn't have a priority
and body pointing it out the obvious is a dictator



I think i can guess your occupation your its in a circus

Where did I say 'system abuse is ok'?

Correct...I didn't say it.
I said solving 'system abuse' will not fix the problem or go any were near doing that.

Redgirl82

Redgirl82 wrote: »

Of course you are

I am fully aware of the requirements for high rated houses. Just said I never mentioned under floor heating.

The other statement is another baffling one to be honest, you do understand how Co2 works?

Ive never yet,set foot in an A2 rated house,that deosnt have underfloor heating,have you??

jm08

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Societaly as well, long gone are the days the state or councils could hire on workers for f'all, build a shanty with a shed at the bottom of the garden for a toilet.
Our own expectations what is acceptable housing is a major factor.
Housing hasn't just increased in line with inflation, standards and expectations have gone through the roof (pun intended).
Slums were everywhere, in every town the length an breadth of Ireland, this was housing, a roof over your head, you weren't homeless but you lived in a hovel.

Some of those houses that you claim were hovels are going for 300/400K now in places like Ballyfermot, Donnycarney, Crumlin and elsewhere. Dublin Corporation in the early 80s did some really good housing schemes such as those red brick houses on City Quay. In my own country area, the co. council houses that were built may have had an outside toilet then, and no running water, but it got people with a roof over their heads and those people were able to buy extend and improve them which they did over the years. Some of the houses who had large enough gardens (usually about half an acre) now have second houses on them, built by the children of the original owners at no cost to the state.

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

It was cheaper and easier to build two up two down houses on cheap land very much closer to the city centre. Good luck getting that type of housing built now a days.

Building houses is not the same as it was 60 years ago, and my point was people like yourself harking back to some "golden age' where problems were fixed by easy slogans.

All those red bricked houses around Dublin were built in the 80s by Dublin Corporation, just before the policy changed to hand all responsibility to FF's friends in the Galway Races Tent.

jm08

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Tnx.
But they won't except simple modest houses.
There's a three bed council house up the road from me, detached on its own site, rural, idle for two years. They've been unable to find a Tennant who will accept it since the previous owners have now passed away. It was built in the eighties. Grand little modest cottage.

There isn't a housing crisis in rural Ireland. There is in Dublin though.

Bishop of hope

jm08 wrote: »

Some of those houses that you claim were hovels are going for 300/400K now in places like Ballyfermot, Donnycarney, Crumlin and elsewhere. Dublin Corporation in the early 80s did some really good housing schemes such as those red brick houses on City Quay. In my own country area, the co. council houses that were built may have had an outside toilet then, and no running water, but it got people with a roof over their heads and those people were able to buy extend and improve them which they did over the years. Some of the houses who had large enough gardens (usually about half an acre) now have second houses on them, built by the children of the original owners at no cost to the state.

That's a fair point, I know of loads of these too.
But that's not the way today's expecting tenants look at them, which was my point really.
Firstly even specifications for acceptable housing has gone mad.
And if any Govt or council decided to build just livable housing, with a bathroom and running water and a reasonable way of heating, because of up to date specs it is still very costly to provide this housing.
If a Govt decided to build housing to the same standards as the 80's for instance, they would be criticised right left and center.
And a lot of tenants won't accept housing unless it's in a certain area.

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

In a word yes.

Land is more expensive The State has large banks of land. Use that.
Way more regulations and environmental considerations to go through: If the State/Councils are building the houses, all those issues will be easier to deal with.
Planning permissions is a minefield: Should not be an issue for the State since they make the rules.
We dont tax existing homeowners the rates we used to back then: We didn't pay wastage rates back then either (or water rates).
EU Competition law also has something to say about all this: Nope. Social housing won't be an issue with EU Competition law.
All new houses, by law now need to be A2 minium. That does not come cheap: What are the additional costs?

It's like saying a car build in 2020 is the same as the car built-in 1960. Sure its a chassis, an enginee and 4 four wheels, but we all know that cars today are a hell of a lot smarter and safer than those cars built 60 years ago. Chalk and cheese.

That isn't true. Some great housebuilding done up to about the 80s. Have a look at some of the houses built by the Iveagh Trust in the early part of the century (around Glasnevin for example).

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

All this seems circular,they said xy and z couldnt be done with healthcare

Now, that is the ultimate circular argument. Pointing to Coronovirus as way to build houses...

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

The poster is correct, they didn't happen, or other people were responsible.

Westminister improved women's rights.
Westminister brought in SSM.
There is no standalone Irish language act.
They brought down Stormont for three years for nothing, while nurses didn't get their pay increase.
The FG government negotiated for Ireland on Brexit.

Nothing on that list was an achievement of Sinn Fein.

Are you aware that the DUP, using the Petition of Concern, blocked SSM in Stormont on 5 occasions in as many years, despite (bar the TUV), everyone else supported it?


How would FG get around something like that in the Dail, say for example if Aontu/Mattie Fox/Ronan Mullan conservatives had a veto on legislation?



Are you aware that the Labour MP who introduced the legislation in Westminister is from Armagh and his father was a Sinn Fein Councillor (and former mayor of Newry) up to recently (now retired)?

markodaly

jm08 wrote: »

[/B]

That isn't true. Some great housebuilding done up to about the 80s. Have a look at some of the houses built by the Iveagh Trust in the early part of the century (around Glasnevin for example).

The 80's? When we had way more people leaving the country then arriving, which resulted in no pressure on housing at all?
The 80's? Which was 40 years ago at this stage?
The 80's? Right after the 77 elections when FF abolished rates?

Again, lets not hark back to golden era nostalgia.

Mortelaro

jm08 wrote: »

Are you aware that the Labour MP who introduced the legislation in Westminister is from Armagh and his father was a Sinn Fein Councillor (and former mayor of Newry) up to recently (now retired)?

I wish other Sinn fein people would do what he did then and cross his fingers behind his back whilst pledging an oath to the Queen taking his seat in Westminster
If the SF mps had done the same,there would be no Brexit

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

Are you aware that the DUP, using the Petition of Concern, blocked SSM in Stormont on 5 occasions in as many years, despite (bar the TUV), everyone else supported it?


How would FG get around something like that in the Dail, say for example if Aontu/Mattie Fox/Ronan Mullan conservatives had a veto on legislation?



Are you aware that the Labour MP who introduced the legislation in Westminister is from Armagh and his father was a Sinn Fein Councillor (and former mayor of Newry) up to recently (now retired)?

This.

Unionists used the Petition Of Concern as a continuation of their veto.

Complete head in the sand stuff from guess who...Mark and blanch.

The Unionist veto has been removed and now their Petition Of Concern abuses are to be reformed so that they cannot block rights on religious or cultural grounds..

Runaways

Mortelaro wrote: »

I wish other Sinn fein people would do what he did then and cross his fingers behind his back whilst pledging an oath to the Queen taking his seat in Westminster
If the SF mps had done the same,there would be no Brexit

That’s pure bollocks
There isn’t one MP in parliament who would vote the same way as Sinn Fein on anything even Brexit

And why would SF go into Parliament to stop Brexit when Brexit is bringing about their ultimate aim which is a united Ireland

None of you FG sycophants seem to have an actual clue about anything it’s gas

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, blanch got schooled on who is responsible for some stuff as did Leo.

I presented fact checks on it and blanch went silent.

I fully agree, that the 'region' cannot sustain itself either economically or socially because it has been created artificially and the issues caused by that have never sorted themselves out and show signs of never sorting themselves out.
If you are correct on health and education then that will make unifying the island all the more attractive to those who want better. Somethings aren't fixable because the root problems of why they are how they are, aren't fixable.

Sorry that I can't be on these boards 24/7 to counter all the nonsense that is posted, but I have a real life.

I will have a look and see if there is anything substantive worth answering.