Is it just me or have SF vanished?

aido79

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I think the left will look out for the people (or try their best anyway).

I feel like they will at least try sort out the
-Homeless Crisis
-Shambles of a Health System

Change from what we have had for the past 100 years, because its not working

So you think nothing has improved in Ireland since 1920?

aido79

Edgware wrote: »

Let us know when you wake up

Why do I need to wake up?

dundalkfc10

Mortelaro wrote: »

Worse up north boss

Ah well thats ok. Continue on as we are

Why are we comparing ourselves to others to make us look better?

Fact is under FG the Homeless and Housing Crisis has got to the worst its ever been.

Mortelaro

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Ah well thats ok. Continue on as we are

Why are we comparing ourselves to others to make us look better?

Fact is under FG the Homeless and Housing Crisis has got to the worst its ever been.

According to Simon,double the amount of homeless children in the north versus the south and we are 3 times their population, making the North 6 times worse :eek:
Why compare? Because housing is a devolved power in the north

dundalkfc10

Mortelaro wrote: »

According to Simon,double the amount of homeless children in the north versus the south and we are 3 times their population, making the North 6 times worse :eek:
Why compare? Because housing is a devolved power in the north

Loads of things up North better than down here
Healthcare
Education (all levels)

Will we compare everything and see whos better?

Since 2011, FG have failed thats why they went from the Number 1 Party to Number 3 in Ireland.

Edgware

aido79 wrote: »

Why do I need to wake up?

You must be dreaming if you think McDonald will risk running a second candidate that hits her No 1s

a very cool kid

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Loads of things up North better than down here
Healthcare
Education (all levels)

Will we compare everything and see whos better?

Since 2011, FG have failed thats why they went from the Number 1 Party to Number 3 in Ireland.

What are you basing education on all levels on?

Mortelaro

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Loads of things up North better than down here
Healthcare
Education (all levels)

Will we compare everything and see whos better?

Since 2011, FG have failed thats why they went from the Number 1 Party to Number 3 in Ireland.

You mentioned homelessness
Despite being a third the population,Twice as many homeless children up north according to Simon as down south,how is that an advertisement for SF reign?
I know its a coalition but still, if they cant sort it up north,how can you say they'll do such a good job down here?

As for the health service up north ,I'll just leave THIS here

aido79

Edgware wrote: »

You must be dreaming if you think McDonald will risk running a second candidate that hits her No 1s

I don't think there's a hope in hell of her doing it. Sinn Fein supporters think it's just a matter of them running more candidates next time just because some of their candidates including Mary Lou McDonald had big surpluses last time.

dundalkfc10

aido79 wrote: »

I don't think there's a hope in hell of her doing it. Sinn Fein supporters think it's just a matter of them running more candidates next time just because some of their candidates including Mary Lou McDonald had big surpluses last time.

FG supporters think that people cant see what the party has done before election (give out about SF) They got worst result in years yet they still continue to do so

Edgware

aido79 wrote: »

I don't think there's a hope in hell of her doing it. Sinn Fein supporters think it's just a matter of them running more candidates next time just because some of their candidates including Mary Lou McDonald had big surpluses last time.

Exactly. Would O Laoire in Cork S.C. risk a second candidate up against Martin Coveney and McGrath?
Give O Broin his due. Himself and Ward did it and both got it but that wouldnt happen too many places

JohnnyFlash

Edgware wrote: »

Exactly. Would O Laoire in Cork S.C. risk a second candidate up against Martin Coveney and McGrath?
Give O Broin his due. Himself and Ward did it and both got it but that wouldnt happen too many places

Trying to get two quotas in some constituencies is a dark art. Even Frank Flannery struggled with it at times, and he was a master in dividing up a constituency to maximise the number of FG seats. You need the hop of the ball on the day as well.

aido79

Edgware wrote: »

Exactly. Would O Laoire in Cork S.C. risk a second candidate up against Martin Coveney and McGrath?
Give O Broin his due. Himself and Ward did it and both got it but that wouldnt happen too many places

They'd have a lot of work to do to get the other 8000 or so votes needed for a second seat in Cork south central too.
I honestly think Sinn Fein have maxed out on the number of seats they will ever get and have blown their chance of forming a government but time will tell I suppose.

Edgware

aido79 wrote: »

They'd have a lot of work to do to get the other 8000 or so votes needed for a second seat in Cork south central too.
I honestly think Sinn Fein have maxed out on the number of seats they will ever get and have blown their chance of forming a government but time will tell I suppose.

I do think that if FG or the Greens pull the plug FF will tell Martin to deal with SF or get off the stage. There's five or six Shinners that would be as good Ministers as there is in the other parties. Any coalition is all about compromise and acceptance. FF would realise that the SF Dublin wing would have to keep the North on side with a bit of the "Up the Ra" stuff and likewise SF know that they would have to give concessions to FF.
As both parties did a lot of the GFA negotiations they know how to play the game

Mortelaro

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

FG supporters think that people cant see what the party has done before election (give out about SF) They got worst result in years yet they still continue to do so

This is the Sinn Féin thread
What do you expect to be brought up on it only analysis of Sinn Féin

Your biggest disappointment going forward might arise out of thinking the majority of the Irish electorate is left wing
It isn't
Just as it isn't right wing
Its centre
Various players right and left of that centre tug it there
SF will eventually be in government in the Republic if they want to
Not with my help though as long as they want rid of the Special criminal court or want to harm Foreign direct investment here or dilute people's incentives to work hard for reward

dundalkfc10

Mortelaro wrote: »

This is the Sinn Féin thread
What do you expect to be brought up on it only analysis of Sinn Féin

Your biggest disappointment going forward might arise out of thinking the majority of the Irish electorate is left wing
It isn't
Just as it isn't right wing
Its centre
Various players right and left of that centre tug it there
SF will eventually be in government in the Republic if they want to
Not with my help though as long as they want rid of the Special criminal court or want to harm Foreign direct investment here or dilute people's incentives to work hard for reward

Thats what FG have done to every young person in the country

Mortelaro

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Thats what FG have done to every young person in the country

Now that is nonsense

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

According to Simon,double the amount of homeless children in the north versus the south and we are 3 times their population, making the North 6 times worse :eek:
Why compare? Because housing is a devolved power in the north

Don't you know Northern Ireland is overseas? :rolleyes:

Why hasn't FG solved the issues up north? FYI: because it's a different jurisdiction and the government is a power sharing one beholden to westminister and neither FG/SF/FF/SD/PBP etc. have any say. The other branch of SF has some say, maybe post up their policies you blame for what goes on outside of this jurisdiction? Would it not be easier to criticise SF on SF?

Mortelaro

Bowie wrote: »

Don't you know Northern Ireland is overseas? :rolleyes:

Why hasn't FG solved the issues up north? FYI: because it's a different jurisdiction and the government is a power sharing one beholden to westminister and neither FG/SF/FF/SD/PBP etc. have any say. The other branch of SF has some say, maybe post up their policies you blame for what goes on outside of this jurisdiction? Would it not be easier to criticise SF on SF?

This is the Sinn Féin thread
SF have no say in Northern Ireland now,I see...

Pull the other one

Bishop of hope

Mortelaro wrote: »

This is the Sinn Féin thread
SF have no say in Northern Ireland now,I see...

Pull the other one

It's the tories you know, the British ones up there, the Irish ones down here.

TheCitizen

I see this thread hasn't gone anywhere, bar same old FFG fanboys on here attacking SF infinitum.

John McGuinness on Virgin Media tonight is saying there should be a National government. He's also saying bar the possibility of a National Government that FG are basically acting the bollocks and will pull out on this negotiations at the end.

Let them pull out and instead FF do a deal with SF and The Greens (as Micheal Martin mooted when the results were initially coming out after the election but he then changed tack when SF turned out to be only 1 seat behind FF).

I know McGuinness is a bit of a maverick but I don't think he's wrong about FG's bona fides on this government formation effort.

If FG want out, let them get to fúck out of the way and let FF and SF and others take over.

markodaly

TheCitizen wrote: »

If FG want out, let them get to fúck out of the way and let FF and SF and others take over.

There is absolutely nothing FG is doing to stop FF talking to SF, nothing, nada, zero...

FF can talk to SF now if they want to. In fact, there is nothing FG can do to stop the other 135 non-FG TD's from forming whatever government they wish.

The way some people go on, its as if FG is acting in some nefarious authoritarianism fashion.

Bishop of hope

The SF housing proposal has merit I think.
Its a pretty detailed plan and realistic pricing involved this time.
This, will put pressure on the others to come up with something to rival it.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-draft-plans-for-affordable-housing-scheme-1002267.html

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Don't you know Northern Ireland is overseas? :rolleyes:

Why hasn't FG solved the issues up north? FYI: because it's a different jurisdiction and the government is a power sharing one beholden to westminister and neither FG/SF/FF/SD/PBP etc. have any say. The other branch of SF has some say, maybe post up their policies you blame for what goes on outside of this jurisdiction? Would it not be easier to criticise SF on SF?

I think it is a very instructive point, it gives us a chance to assess how Sinn Fein might perform if given the chance to be in government.

The abysmal performance of Sinn Fein in government in Northern Ireland should serve as a wake-up call to voters down here.

jh79

MLD getting a lot of stick online from pro-choice groups and SF getting some praise from the DUP of all people. Will be interesting to see how she deals with it. Not so much of an all Ireland party yesterday.

Mortelaro

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It's the tories you know, the British ones up there, the Irish ones down here.

Perhaps they should make Eoin o Broin housing minister in northern Ireland

markodaly

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The SF housing proposal has merit I think.
Its a pretty detailed plan and realistic pricing involved this time.
This, will put pressure on the others to come up with something to rival it.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-draft-plans-for-affordable-housing-scheme-1002267.html

Very pie in the sky, they are basically saying if you have free land, no middle management, no finance costs and developers work for free, then you can have these cheap houses.

I can see all the developers queueing up already. :P

IAmTheReign

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The SF housing proposal has merit I think.
Its a pretty detailed plan and realistic pricing involved this time.
This, will put pressure on the others to come up with something to rival it.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-draft-plans-for-affordable-housing-scheme-1002267.html

Where are the details of the plan available? There's no link on the article and I couldn't find anything on the SF website. I'd like to see mrore details.

From what little is in the article a couple of things stands out though. Who decided 230,000 is affordable? Someone earning 45,00 certainly can't get a mortgage for a 230,000. According to the Central banks 3.5 LTI rule someone earning 45,000 can only get a mortgage for 157,500 so who would provide mortgage finance? I assume SF would propose the government lend people the money? If so that raises questions about what happens in the event of non repayment as currently happens with government housing schemes.

Secondly, seems these would be leasehold purchases as opposed to freehold, and properties cannot be sold for a profit.

No land will be sold or transferred out of public ownership for the purpose of delivering these homes, and if an owner wishes to sell their house in years to come, they will have to sell back to within the affordable housing scheme, adjusted for inflation.

Sounds great but how would this work in practice? Would these be sold back to the scheme who them resell to someone on the list? Or can the property owner resell to whoever they want as long as they are able to avail of the scheme? Since historically property prices rise on average far faster than inflation the second option would be open to rampant abuse. On the other hand if you have to sell back to the housing scheme do they guarantee you the price you paid plus inflation when you decide to sell? How do you factor in depreciation to the property over that time into the purchase price, or how do you factor in improvements made during the lifetime of the property?

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

I think it is a very instructive point, it gives us a chance to assess how Sinn Fein might perform if given the chance to be in government.

The abysmal performance of Sinn Fein in government in Northern Ireland should serve as a wake-up call to voters down here.

how can you compare the multifaceted nationalist/unionist/neither/british government set up in the north to a normal government?

blanch152

maccored wrote: »

how can you compare the multifaceted nationalist/unionist/neither/british government set up in the north to a normal government?

Well, you can't have it both ways.

You and others have told us many times that it is wrong that FF and FG rule out Sinn Fein for government because they are in government in the North, but then say we cannot measure their performance up there.

For me, it is quite legitimate to say that SF are not fit for government down here, both because there is only a limited form of government up North, and that within that limited form, they have performed abysmally (e.g. on homelessness).