Is it just me or have SF vanished?

dundalkfc10

Deleted User wrote: »

That is the point that people are ignoring or missing. They are putting the country first. The fallout from the Covid pandemic will be monumental and tough decisions will have to be made. The fickle electorate will punish whoever makes those decisions. Kudos to Leo, Michael and Eamon for stepping up.

Putting the country first by completely ignoring a party who got about 25% of the votes?

Thats what you do for your country alright.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course the numbers were there. Even without FF and FG. SF just didn’t try.

How do you know this?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How do you know this?

I know that they didn’t respond to PBP. How do I know that the numbers are there? I did the sums.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

I know that they didn’t respond to PBP. How do I know that the numbers are there? I did the sums.

Do them for us.

Let us see where the support was.

You claimed it, you back it up.

dundalkfc10

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Putting the country first by completely ignoring a party who got about 25% of the votes?

Thats what you do for your country alright.

Well when the 25% party made little effort to form a government, yes. The others are putting the country first.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do them for us.

Let us see where the support was.

You claimed it, you back it up.

FG + FF = 73
All the others totalled 87

Simples.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

FG + FF = 73
All the others totalled 87

Simples.

As I thought. Not a notion, just the familiar scripted retort.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I thought. Not a notion, just the familiar scripted retort.

What does this mean? I’m my own person and speak as I see.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

What does this mean? I’m my own person and speak as I see.

It means that this has been trotted out ad nauseum by a group of posters on here. So much so that it sounds scripted.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It means that this has been trotted out ad nauseum by a group of posters on here. So much so that it sounds scripted.

Really? To me it’s just stating the obvious. One party, if they really wanted, could have formed a government with the rest of the elected TDs without either FF or FG.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It means that this has been trotted out ad nauseum by a group of posters on here. So much so that it sounds scripted.

Maths isn't a script, its numbers
The question remains, why SF could not persuade 80+ T.D's into its realm

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Really? To me it’s just stating the obvious. One party, if they really wanted, could have formed a government with the rest of the elected TDs without either FF or FG.

They could have had everyone else agreed. They didn't. Therefore the numbers were not there.

That may have been PBP the SD's The Greens or indeed SF not playing ball, but the upshot is the numbers were not there.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Maths isn't a script, its numbers
The question remains, why SF could not persuade 80+ T.D's into its realm

You can ask the same ridiculous question of an independent...why couldn't Michael Lowry persuade the other 80+ into his realm.

He didn't and he couldn't. The numbers were not there.

Is anything simpler to understand?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I thought. Not a notion, just the familiar scripted retort.

You can't argue with the numbers, Francie, they are there in black and white.

87 TDs available to Mary-Lou. She barely convinced her own to back her.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can ask the same ridiculous question of an independent...why couldn't Michael Lowry persuade the other 80+ into his realm.

He didn't and he couldn't. The numbers were not there.

Is anything simpler to understand?

No,that's just actual what the fuck level ridiculous

I can only assume that Sinn Féin decided to gamble with their constituents
That 5 more years of disastrous FF and FG government devastating and destituting their lives with austerity and higher taxes is a price worth paying to gain more seats ...
Their poor voters
it'll be a gamble as erudite as their candidate selection for February 2020

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

No,that's just actual what the fuck level ridiculous

I can only assume that Sinn Féin decided to gamble with their constituents
That 5 more years of disastrous FF and FG government devastating and destituting their lives with austerity and higher taxes is a price worth paying to gain more seats ...
Their poor voters
it'll be a gamble as erudite as their candidate selection for February 2020

We can see the fallacy of trying to sledgehammer governments together. 128 days to concoct what even the negotiators are calling a 'wishlist' and one principal negotiator is probably not even going to vote for it.

Shambolic and desperate attempts to cling to power will always end in disaster, tears and gnashing of teeth and those involved usually pay the price.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

We can see the fallacy of trying to sledgehammer governments together. 128 days to concoct what even the negotiators are calling a 'wishlist' and one principal negotiator is probably not even going to vote for it.

Shambolic and desperate attempts to cling to power will always end in disaster, tears and gnashing of teeth and those involved usually pay the price.

And this speaks to Sinn Féins lack lustre efforts to form an alternative government how exactly?

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

And this speaks to Sinn Féins lack lustre efforts to form an alternative government how exactly?

You can call it lack lustre. I call it pragmatism...why sledgehammer an absurdity together as has been done over the last 128 days?
The power swap has gotten people used to this nonsense.

JohnnyFlash

There's a growing possibility that the Green Party members won't vote for the deal.

Then it's back to the drawing board. Mary Lou can put together a coalition of change with Labour, Social Democrats, Greens, Loony Left, and Independents. That's certainly change.

Or FF could throw MM and a few others under the bus, and start playing footsie with SF. Rotating Taoiseach etc.

FG go and sit in opposition.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You can call it lack lustre. I call it pragmatism...why sledgehammer an absurdity together as has been done over the last 128 days?
The power swap has gotten people used to this nonsense.

That's for the first time an admission ye lost the election
I don't see the sense in losing the opportunity to be in government aswell though
The power swap slur against the FF, FG and labour voters shown up of course as vacuous given SF's to date lack of effort at forming something of its own in those same 128 days
Its always someone else's fault I suppose...

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

That's for the first time an admission ye lost the election

Elections and government formation are two different things.
We had an election...we may not be able to have a government though

I don't see the sense in losing the opportunity to be in government aswell though
The power swap slur against the FF, FG and labour voters shown up of course as vacuous given SF's to date lack of effort at forming something of its own in those same 128 days
Its always someone else's fault I suppose...

Like people huffing about the factual descriptor 'partitionist' being an insult, the two parties have swapped power in this country since it's foundation...fact.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like people huffing about the factual descriptor 'partitionist' being an insult, the two parties have swapped power in this country since it's foundation...fact.

It's who the people voted for, Francis. It's called democracy, and the Republic is a fine example of it.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It's who the people voted for, Francis. It's called democracy, and the Republic is a fine example of it.

And an ever decreasing number are falling for the pretence that they are different parties. Which was the con. Sad to say many fell for it.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And an ever decreasing number are falling for the pretence that they are different parties. Which was the con. Sad to say many fell for it.

The country was the poorest in Western Europe when we achieved independence. We are now ranked 3rd on the UN Human Development Index. That's in the world btw .

It was the terrorist wing of SF who did so much to try and undermine that. Even now they refuse to refer to it as the Republic of Ireland.

The hubris of 1st time SF supporters really is something else.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The country was the poorest in Western Europe when we achieved independence. We are now ranked 3rd on the UN Human Development Index. That's in the world btw .

It was the terrorist wing of SF who did so much to try and undermine that. Even now they refuse to refer to it as the Republic of Ireland.

The hubris of 1st time SF supporters really is something else.

86% vote share between them at it's height...44% today. Seems to me going up the rankings in the world was dependent on them falling in popularity. That's my read.

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

Maths isn't a script, its numbers
The question remains, why SF could not persuade 80+ T.D's into its realm

Not looking good for FF/FG either. **** happens.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

86% vote share between them at it's height...44% today. Seems to me going up the rankings in the world was dependent on them falling in popularity. That's my read.

My read would be centre parliaments management works

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Elections and government formation are two different things.
We had an election...we may not be able to have a government though

Like people huffing about the factual descriptor 'partitionist' being an insult, the two parties have swapped power in this country since it's foundation...fact.

Your still not addressing SF's abdication of government forming responsibility

Oh and A swap is consensual btw
Up to the last Dáil FF and FG most certainly did not consent to the other being in power,so you are of course factually wrong on that matter

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Your still not addressing SF's abdication of government forming responsibility

You call it 'abdication' I say there is no onus on anybody to form a sledgehammered government. The numbers to create a cohesive government that could complete a programme of government were not there.

There doesn't seem to be the numbers to form a government to implement a 'wishlist' even.

Oh and A swap is consensual btw
Up to the last Dáil FF and FG most certainly did not consent to the other being in power,so you are of course factually wrong on that matter

You are obviously one of the ever diminishing 44%. No surprise there.

Gunmonkey

FrancieBrady wrote: »

86% vote share between them at it's height...44% today. Seems to me going up the rankings in the world was dependent on them falling in popularity. That's my read.

Oh oh oh is it "random things connected together and presented as an argument" time? Always loved that:

-rise of Sinn Fein and the degredation of the global climate
-increase in Irish ranking on UN Human Development Index JohnnyFlash mentioned and the partition of North and South Ireland,which SF wants to reverse...so they want worse lives for the citizens of this island
-Sinn Fein wins a lot of votes in last election, worldwide pandemic of highly infectious disease....coincidence?

Just my read.

(PS, can you find me the % vote share of the last 3 general elections, and compare that to Irelands rankings for quality of life, because surely by your assertion it would only have increased from February...right?)