Is it just me or have SF vanished?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What you are in denial of and will continue to deny, is that SF do not see them as 'evil terrorists'.
Just as FF and FG do not see the men and women who fought for independence as 'evil or terrorists'.

You are entitled to your view of them and history...you are not entitled to enforce your view on anybody else though and you are actually wasting your time and energy attempting to do it.

I fully accept that SF do not see them as "evil terrorists", but nearly all decent members of society view people who indiscriminately bomb and kill innocent people as evil terrorists.

Pointing out the difference between Sinn Fein and decent members of society is sufficient to me.

Pkiernan

Interesting how SF still want to abolish the anti terrorist and anti Organised Crime Special Courts.

Wonder why that is? Follow the money.

A lot of SF supporters getting fooled at the moment.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I fully accept that SF do not see them as "evil terrorists", but nearly all decent members of society view people who indiscriminately bomb and kill innocent people as evil terrorists.

Like those who bombed Dublin and my county town?

Pointing out the difference between Sinn Fein and decent members of society is sufficient to me.

So at what point did FG and FF and those involved in achieving independence and fighting a civil war - merge into being 'decent members' of society?

How many years does it take until 'decent members' of society change the descriptors?*


*asking for a friend.

dundalkfc10

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like those who bombed Dublin and my county town?



So at what point did FG and FF and those involved in achieving independence and fighting a civil war - merge into being 'decent members' of society?

How many years does it take until 'decent members' of society change the descriptors?*


*asking for a friend.

Game Set Match Francie

Edgware

Edgware wrote: »

OK once more for the last time.
37 SEATS IS NOT A MAJORITY IN DAIL EIREANN.
MICKEY MOUSE CALCULATIONS MAY WORK IN SF ECONOMIC POLICY BUT NOT ELSEWHERE

Please don’t shout.

I’m well aware that SF on their own don’t have a majority. If people think that they can form a government Friday, why didn’t they do so immediately after the election?

dundalkfc10

Deleted User wrote: »

Please don’t shout.

I’m well aware that SF on their own don’t have a majority. If people think that they can form a government Friday, why didn’t they do so immediately after the election?

Because FG and FF and Greens wouldnt talk to them.

FF and the Greens have opened the door for talks to happen (if Greens say no)

Cant explain it any easier

Loafing Oaf

Deleted User wrote: »

If people think that they can form a government Friday, why didn’t they do so immediately after the election?

I presume they believe FF will be reconsidering its position if the PFG goes down...

Bishop of hope

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Because FG and FF and Greens wouldnt talk to them.

FF and the Greens have opened the door for talks to happen (if Greens say no)

Cant explain it any easier

The washings of the bag like, how, would SF supporters feel about MM as Taoiseach?
Would the SF membership pass a deal with FF and the Greens, would FF membership or the Greens for that matter?
Is it just about getting SF in without a thought of a programme for government?
Lads, just because this current deal is rejected, if it is, doesn't mean wahey it's FF SF and whoever!

McMurphy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The washings of the bag like, how, would SF supporters feel about MM as Taoiseach?

Why assume Michaeál would be Taoiseach?

Would the SF membership pass a deal with FF and the Greens, would FF membership or the Greens for that matter?
Is it just about getting SF in without a thought of a programme for government?
Lads, just because this current deal is rejected, if it is, doesn't mean wahey it's FF SF and whoever!

So now the shinners do want to govern afterall? Careful now Bishop, few lads on here going to be arguing with you on this.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Please don’t shout.

I’m well aware that SF on their own don’t have a majority. If people think that they can form a government Friday, why didn’t they do so immediately after the election?

Circumstances? A change in attitude among others? Any amount of reasons.

Why didn't FG seek a deal with FF immediately after the election for instance?

dundalkfc10

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The washings of the bag like, how, would SF supporters feel about MM as Taoiseach?
Would the SF membership pass a deal with FF and the Greens, would FF membership or the Greens for that matter?
Is it just about getting SF in without a thought of a programme for government?
Lads, just because this current deal is rejected, if it is, doesn't mean wahey it's FF SF and whoever!

We know, keeps FG out though. Pints the weekend

dundalkfc10

McMurphy wrote: »

Why assume Michaeál would be Taoiseach?




So now the shinners do want to govern afterall? Careful now Bishop, few lads on here going to be arguing with you on this.

They are clutching at straws at this stage, great reading on all threads.

Bishop of hope

McMurphy wrote: »

Why assume Michaeál would be Taoiseach?




So now the shinners do want to govern afterall? Careful now Bishop, few lads on here going to be arguing with you on this.

Just questions Mc, I don't know how it will turn out, it will all be irrelevant if the current deal goes ahead anyway.
What process does SF go through if there's a deal offered, who has a say in its acceptance, is it the members voting or is it like an Ard-Fheis where its put to them and they all vote yes as, the result is pre established?

dundalkfc10

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Just questions Mc, I don't know how it will turn out, it will all be irrelevant if the current deal goes ahead anyway.
What process does SF go through if there's a deal offered, who has a say in its acceptance, is it the members voting or is it like an Ard-Fheis where its put to them and they all vote yes as, the result is pre established?

According to some clowns on here, The IRA army council in Belfast will decide

Finty Lemon

Like those who bombed Dublin and my county town?

Those succesful operations were entirely justified.

Bishop of hope

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

They are clutching at straws at this stage, great reading on all threads.

I haven't seen anything bar them saying nobody will talk to us that makes me think there's a chance in hell of them agreeing to be in govt.
My opinion is, they will not agree no matter who approaches them anyway.

dundalkfc10

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I haven't seen anything bar them saying nobody will talk to us that makes me think there's a chance in hell of them agreeing to be in govt.
My opinion is, they will not agree no matter who approaches them anyway.

Tiocfaidh ár lá

Jinglejangle69

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Because FG and FF and Greens wouldnt talk to them.

FF and the Greens have opened the door for talks to happen (if Greens say no)

Cant explain it any easier

Numbers were still there.

Even RBB rinsed Mary Lou.

dundalkfc10

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Numbers were still there.

Even RBB rinsed Mary Lou.

Well my maths are

FF 38 + FG 35 + Greens 12 = 85

Remaining seats 75

hatrickpatrick

Bishop of hope wrote: »

The washings of the bag like, how, would SF supporters feel about MM as Taoiseach?
Would the SF membership pass a deal with FF and the Greens, would FF membership or the Greens for that matter?
Is it just about getting SF in without a thought of a programme for government?
Lads, just because this current deal is rejected, if it is, doesn't mean wahey it's FF SF and whoever!

I can't definitively speak for anyone else but I would be willing to bet that a huge volume of the young people who flocked to SF would be happy with any government which tackled the cost of living and housing through left wing policies. The issue isn't that we'd still oppose FFG if they brought in such measures, the issue is that we don't trust them to do it regardless of what they say or what agreements they sign off on. They'll find some excuse to pander to neoliberalism and not change course even if they promised to change course to begin with. FG at least are honest about not wanting to fix the problem, FF come across as a bunch of dishonest gobsh!tes on the issue considering their prior record in office.

Point being, if they do go in and they do change policy in this area, then great. It's not about party or personality but policy. The surge in support for SF is entirely born out of opposition to FFG's shared ideology and support for SF's opposing ideology. Obviously if FFG genuinely adopted the opposing ideology, then people would stop having as big an issue with them. The problem is, though, that they've sullied their reputations so much in this regard that even if they said they were changing policy, a lot of young people would assume they were just lying to get the pressure off their backs, and would come up with some excuse for reneging on commitments further down the line.

Eoghan Murphy, for example, single handedly did more damage to FG's reputation among young people than any individual politician has done for any political party in my entire memory of observing and participating in Irish politics. Even if they change policy, people still remember the attitude this man had towards the suffering of the young, and the fact that he had Leo's backing throughout his entire term in that office. Direct attacks against a demographic of the kind Murphy engaged in are extremely difficult to forget in terms of coming around to trusting a party. That's why people don't trust FG. FF at least have left wing policies in their past, which proves that they could come back around to them.

Essentially, while FF + SF wouldn't be as attractive as SF with other parties aside from FF and FG, it's still orders of magnitude better than any government involving FG. In that scenario, I think many SF voters would accept MM as Taoiseach if it meant a change in national policy alongside ensuring that FG got nowhere near power again for at least the next five years.

hatrickpatrick

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Well my maths are

FF 38 + FG 35 + Greens 12 = 85

Remaining seats 75

The "numbers were there" commentary is based upon the very reasonable assumption that the Greens would be happy to talk to a left wing alliance if it included environmentalist policies.

dundalkfc10

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The "numbers were there" commentary is based upon the very reasonable assumption that the Greens would be happy to talk to a left wing alliance if it included environmentalist policies.

Awh pet, its ok. FF/SF and the Greens will be talking tomorrow night

Yeah_Right

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Yes what Catholics went through in the North was a disgrace (My Parents were 2 of them) You should read about it, while the Govt down here done nothing about it.

So did Bobby "The Freedom Fighter" Storey do anything to help your parents? Or did he just get revenge for what they went through?

The government in the Republic were probably more concerned about "The Freedom Fighters" killing their police force than worrying about what was happening to catholics in another country.

dundalkfc10

Yeah_Right wrote: »

So did Bobby "The Freedom Fighter" Storey do anything to help your parents? Or did he just get revenge for what they went through?

The government in the Republic were probably more concerned about "The Freedom Fighters" killing their police force than worrying about what was happening to catholics in another country.

Fine Gael: The party's full official title is “Fine Gael – The United Ireland Party”.

Fianna Fáil: Yes. A United Ireland is a founding goal of our party.

Why would they give a **** though

Bishop of hope

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I can't definitively speak for anyone else but I would be willing to bet that a huge volume of the young people who flocked to SF would be happy with any government which tackled the cost of living and housing through left wing policies. The issue isn't that we'd still oppose FFG if they brought in such measures, the issue is that we don't trust them to do it regardless of what they say or what agreements they sign off on. They'll find some excuse to pander to neoliberalism and not change course even if they promised to change course to begin with. FG at least are honest about not wanting to fix the problem, FF come across as a bunch of dishonest gobsh!tes on the issue considering their prior record in office.

Point being, if they do go in and they do change policy in this area, then great. It's not about party or personality but policy. The surge in support for SF is entirely born out of opposition to FFG's shared ideology and support for SF's opposing ideology. Obviously if FFG genuinely adopted the opposing ideology, then people would stop having as big an issue with them. The problem is, though, that they've sullied their reputations so much in this regard that even if they said they were changing policy, a lot of young people would assume they were just lying to get the pressure off their backs, and would come up with some excuse for reneging on commitments further down the line.

Eoghan Murphy, for example, single handedly did more damage to FG's reputation among young people than any individual politician has done for any political party in my entire memory of observing and participating in Irish politics. Even if they change policy, people still remember the attitude this man had towards the suffering of the young, and the fact that he had Leo's backing throughout his entire term in that office. Direct attacks against a demographic of the kind Murphy engaged in are extremely difficult to forget in terms of coming around to trusting a party. That's why people don't trust FG. FF at least have left wing policies in their past, which proves that they could come back around to them.

Essentially, while FF + SF wouldn't be as attractive as SF with other parties aside from FF and FG, it's still orders of magnitude better than any government involving FG. In that scenario, I think many SF voters would accept MM as Taoiseach if it meant a change in national policy alongside ensuring that FG got nowhere near power again for at least the next five years.

The problem is personal finance in Dublin anyway, or at least a huge percentage of it.
The costs concerned with building are huge, cheap housing is just impossible I think.
OK just say SF manage to get in and embark on a housebuilding splurge and manage to build 15 or 20 thousand houses a year and they can be bought for their own figure of 240k and rented for between 700 and 900 pm, how does that help anyone who doesn't qualify for this housing?
If you are looking to house people on low incomes then a 240 k mortgage is probably unachievable so it would be mostly rentals I'd say.
You're alienating a lot of people probably just above whatever income level is set but probably just surviving currently in the open market.
Go back out in 5 years to those paying 120k more for houses and double or treble in rent, you'd be booed of the doorsteps and rightly so.
There's too much loose talk regarding this housing provision and if it comes to pass you're going to burden future generations with more debt for the price of a stint in govt.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Why assume Michaeál would be Taoiseach?




So now the shinners do want to govern afterall? Careful now Bishop, few lads on here going to be arguing with you on this.

If you think there is any chance of FF walking into the Dail to vote for Mary-Lou as Taoiseach this year, I would like some of what you are smoking.

They might do it later as part of a rotation, but they wouldn't do it now.

Jinglejangle69

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Awh pet, its ok. FF/SF and the Greens will be talking tomorrow night

Oh dear.

Mary Lou saying the day of the election she will talk to the other parties about forming a government.

Are you telling me she can't do simple maths that you can?????

Ah no surely not.

I'll educate you.

The numbers were there for SF.

Did you forget the independents?

Jinglejangle69

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The "numbers were there" commentary is based upon the very reasonable assumption that the Greens would be happy to talk to a left wing alliance if it included environmentalist policies.

So who's fault is that??

FG won't talk to SF= bad.

Greens won't talk to SF= democracy.

Unbelievable.

joeguevara

Constant barage on my Facebook of posts about FF bribing FFFGGreen councillors with 8k to vote in favour. No idea it’s for every councillor bringing their pay from 17-25k and removing untouched expenses. Also no idea who actually votes for programme for government.

I’ll be glad when it’s all over, and see whoever is in power can implement what they promised.

blackwhite

I see SF are nominating Paddy Holohan for mayor of SDCC.

Clearly there were some severe consequences from the disciplinary action they took in January :rolleyes: