Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Did Colum offer an opinion on why a party would deliberately embroil themselves in bad publicity?

Like this proposal/nomination came across one of the white bearded old men in the Antrim hill's desk and he thought to himself...'what a brilliant idea to make the party look good, this will really advance our plot to take over the state...approved'.

That how it works?

Ha! It's a wonder you dont apply that kind of analysis to other parties,I don't think
But yes it seems that's how it works

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Ha! It's a wonder you dont apply that kind of analysis to other parties,I don't think
But yes it seems that's how it works

A wee political lesson for you here Mort...when wanting to have a go at a party, taking the word of a competitor politician is invariably shaky. You should ask yourself first, is somebody having a cheap shot?

Which makes more practical sense, that the decision to propose Holohan was handed down from the party elders or simple taking the eye off the ball?

Is SF deliberately hurting itself for some nefarious end or was a mistake made?

Because IMO it was a mistake and those behind it are to be criticised.

Bonniedog

When a party has a record of inviting people to meet them in barns in north Mon and beating them to death with iron bars and cudgels with nails, the bar is not being set very high.

Add that to the large number of rapists, child abusers, informers, and so on and you can see the yawning gap between them and nice guys like Ó Broin whose life is devoted to helping the homeless and helping old ladies cross the road to bingo.

Edgware

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Don't like to see John Humes name dragged through the mud here, lads. The finest Republican since Collins.

Hume and Mallon were the true Republicans unlike the Provos who want to ape the Unionist/Loyalist block who believed that 50% +1% is justification to claim a majority and discriminate against the 49%.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A wee political lesson for you here Mort...when wanting to have a go at a party, taking the word of a competitor politician is invariably shaky. You should ask yourself first, is somebody having a cheap shot?

Which makes more practical sense, that the decision to propose Holohan was handed down from the party elders or simple taking the eye off the ball?

Is SF deliberately hurting itself for some nefarious end or was a mistake made?

Because IMO it was a mistake and those behind it are to be criticised.

Said competitor politician got more votes than anyone else on the island

I see so it was a mistake now
I'll bet it was one in their arrogance, they thought they'd get away with
Is he still a SF councillor?

Edgware

Bonniedog wrote: »

When a party has a record of inviting people to meet them in barns in north Mon and beating them to death with iron bars and cudgels with nails, the bar is not being set very high.

Add that to the large number of rapists, child abusers, informers, and so on and you can see the yawning gap between them and nice guys like Ó Broin whose life is devoted to helping the homeless and helping old ladies cross the road to bingo.

That is the problem with SF. Some of the crew they had canvassing door to door I would not have within a mile of my house as they are recognised as the local hardmen. The decent people like O Broin, Kenny, Stanley will have to start weeding out these thugs

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

Hume and Mallon were the true Republicans unlike the Provos who want to ape the Unionist/Loyalist block who believed that 50% +1% is justification to claim a majority and discriminate against the 49%.

Mallon, along with Eddie O'Grady forced Hume to do a solo run in talks with SF.

Stop the revisionism...know the history. Mallon was bitter about his own mistake and tried to blame everything and everyone else.

Hume was the visionary and should get the credit. The rest of the SDLP tried to protect and promote the party above real peacemaking. The electorate didn't miss it and showed what they thought of the SDLP.

Bonniedog

Most of the "hardmen" only joined after the IRA was disbanded. It is strange dichotomy between these characters who use the shinners to intimidate people, and the mostly eijits who think they are in the Labour Party, or would have been 20 years ago.

I have had dealings with Stanley and he is nice chap. Shinners tried to dump him in favour of a Portlaoise gang led by a former prison warder whose previous contact with republicans was locking them up at night!

You couldn't make this up. They were like a punter whose Lucky 15 came in last January. Previous to that they were going nowhere. Hopefully, they missed the boat for all our sakes.

Edgware

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Always struck me,senior members of sdlp were compromised by mi5 and for this reason hume kept.them out of the loop in the intial peace talks

Ha ha. Thats a laugh. We all know who was compromised by M15. Scapaticci, Donaldson and the other higher echelons of SF in Belfast who were on the payroll of the British.

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Mallon, along with Eddie O'Grady forced Hume to do a solo run in talks with SF.

Stop the revisionism...know the history. Mallon was bitter about his own mistake and tried to blame everything and everyone else.

Hume was the visionary and should get the credit. The rest of the SDLP tried to protect and promote the party above real peacemaking. The electorate didn't miss it and showed what they thought of the SDLP.

Thats a tired old line wheeled out about a decent Republican like Seamus Mallon who would never justify the sectarian slaughter at Kingsmill and Darkley Chapel unlike the S.F. apologists

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

Ha ha. Thats a laugh. We all know who was compromised by M15. Scapaticci, Donaldson and the other higher echelons of SF in Belfast who were on the payroll of the British.

How would you know anything when you are buying into a version of the history written by the SDLP?


Hume and Mallon are not of the same stature. You demean Hume's vision and bravery by lumping Mallon in with him.

Bonniedog

Edgware wrote: »

Ha ha. Thats a laugh. We all know who was compromised by M15. Scapaticci, Donaldson and the other higher echelons of SF in Belfast who were on the payroll of the British.

Even Adams driver Roy "The Rat" McShane was a tout.

I suspect there will be more revelations shortly after Big Bobby is safely buried.

A shameful history all told. They were killing people including their own for no reason other than to make a deal with the Brits for 15 years.

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How would you know anything when you are buying into a version of the history written by the SDLP?


Hume and Mallon are not of the same stature. You demean Hume's vision and bravery by lumping Mallon in with him.

Stop deflecting. How many of SF/IRA were on the British payroll. How many innocents were plugged by the Nutting squad to cover up the informer network at the top of S.F. I.R.A.
Mallon is detested by SF because he stood up to them throughout years of murder and mayhem. Cowards hate that.

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

Stop deflecting. How many of SF/IRA were on the British payroll. How many innocents were plugged by the Nutting squad to cover up the informer network at the top of S.F. I.R.A.
Mallon is detested by SF because he stood up to them throughout years of murder and mayhem. Cowards hate that.

Should your questions not be directed at the British here?

Personally I could care less if the IRA where being run from Westminster itself. I care that they are gone and that the GFA has been achieved for the people of this island.

Mallon is not detested by SF or anybody IMO. He was of service but he had feet of clay in comparison to Hume. I think some may have felt sorry for him when he bitterly made his final pleas for recognition.

Were it not for Hume we would be talking about the memory of the SDLP as a political party. The people knew who delivered and they voted accordingly, some still find that very hard to get over. But there you have it.

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Should your questions not be directed at the British here?

Personally I could care less if the IRA where being run from Westminster itself. I care that they are gone and that the GFA has been achieved for the people of this island.

Mallon is not detested by SF or anybody IMO. He was of service but he had feet of clay in comparison to Hume. I think some may have felt sorry for him when he bitterly made his final pleas for recognition.

Were it not for Hume we would be talking about the memory of the SDLP as a political party. The people knew who delivered and they voted accordingly, some still find that very hard to get over. But there you have it.

If Mallon is not detested by S.F. why did the S.F. members of Drogheda Council vote against giving him the fairly insignificant honour of Freeman of Drogheda? It wasnt the Nobel Prize.
Orders from H.Q. probably told them to vote against.

Throughout the Troubles Mallon was subjected to as much abuse and threats from the Provo supporters as he was from the Loyalist side. He highlighted the activities of the British backed murder gangs as well as the Provo murder gangs and made it his business to attend the funeral of every person murdered in his constituency regardless of the victims background. He saw the absolute futility of political violence as a means of unifying a country

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

If Mallon is not detested by S.F. why did the S.F. members of Drogheda Council vote against giving him the fairly insignificant honour of Freeman of Drogheda? It wasnt the Nobel Prize.
Orders from H.Q. probably told them to vote against.

Because they believed he didn't deserve it?

Throughout the Troubles Mallon was subjected to as much abuse and threats from the Provo supporters as he was from the Loyalist side. He highlighted the activities of the British backed murder gangs

So too were SF and nobody listened. It's all coming out that they were correct about collusion and the British not being a 'neutral player'.

as well as the Provo murder gangs and made it his business to attend the funeral of every person murdered in his constituency regardless of the victims background. He saw the absolute futility of political violence as a means of unifying a country

He may have. He didn't have the solutions though...Hume did and was consequently a part of the solution>
Mallon's bitter little snipe about Sunningdale sums the man up. Sunningdale was never going to work, regardless of the earnestness of it's creators. It deepened the conflict and drove the sides further apart.
Hume recognised why Sunningdale was defeated...picked himself up dusted himself off and started again. Precisely because he put peace before his party fortunes.
He met with somebody who was prepared for peace too and both of them achieved it.

Bonniedog

Shinners were run by the Brits when the important negotiations were going on. Scap made sure that the boys toed the line. Donaldson and others told them everything they needed to know about internal dealings.

One of those who left claimed he was at crucial meeting before an Army Convention where he reckoned in hindsight that he was probably the only one not working for Brits or Special Branch in the room!

Must rank as one of MI5's most successful operations. Ended centuries of Irish resistance by catching a few of the main boys with kiddie porn, riding the family and stealing money to gamble.

You can say whatever you like about Mallon - and wouldnt have been great admirer back in the day - but he wasn't a criminal degenerate like those he despised.

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

Shinners were run by the Brits when the important negotiations were going on. Scap made sure that the boys toed the line. Donaldson and others told them everything they needed to know about internal dealings.

One of those who left claimed he was at crucial meeting before an Army Convention where he reckoned in hindsight that he was probably the only one not working for Brits or Special Branch in the room!

Must rank as one of MI5's most successful operations. Ended centuries of Irish resistance by catching a few of the main boys with kiddie porn, riding the family and stealing money to gamble.

You can say whatever you like about Mallon - and wouldnt have been great admirer back in the day - but he wasn't a criminal degenerate like those he despised.

Well fair play to MI5 so.

I'm grateful to whoever achieved the GFA.

You seem to hold those who are continuing the fight against the British militarily in higher regard. Bully for you.

I am glad that it was recognised that a stalemate had been reached and men and women were brave enough to accept that and reach an agreement that facilitated them getting their goal in a different way.

Bonniedog

As I said before, if the Provies couldnt beat the Brits then three men and a dog from Finglas or Ballymurphy are not going to beat the Brits.

Armed struggle was defeated and a secret conspiracy will always be open to being taken over as the last one was.

Just an awful waste of life for nothing. Unless you think that coalition with the DUP and Mary Lou becoming Tánaiste or something was worth all the senseless waste of life.

Had the ceasefires been followed by republican politics, to convince northern unionists of the benefits of unity for everyone, instead of waiting to have more babies than them - unlikely now that shinners are in support of abortion on demand - things might have been different.

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

As I said before, if the Provies couldnt beat the Brits then three men and a dog from Finglas or Ballymurphy are not going to beat the Brits.

Armed struggle was defeated and a secret conspiracy will always be open to being taken over as the last one was.

Just an awful waste of life for nothing. Unless you think that coalition with the DUP and Mary Lou becoming Tánaiste or something was worth all the senseless waste of life.

Had the ceasefires been followed by republican politics, to convince northern unionists of the benefits of unity for everyone, instead of waiting to have more babies than them - unlikely now that shinners are in support of abortion on demand - things might have been different.

Wow...rarely read anything quite as twisted and bitter. You sure seem disappointed it didn't end in a big enough bloodbath so you could have 'real' hero's out of one of those gung ho British war films to indulge.
I don't find pragmatic and realistic compromise and acceptance unheroic, I try to live in the real world.


I'll leave you to it.

Bonniedog

It's like arguing with the under 10s :-)


Greysteel and Loughlinisland were before the ceasefire.


Try getting some facts right before you even consider arguing with your intellectual superiors :-)

Same to Francie who knows as much about what happened as Monaghan do about winning All Irelands.

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

Same to Francie who knows as much about what happened as Monaghan do about winning All Irelands.

bonniedog wrote:

The "unionist veto" is the right to consent to change constitutional status of NI. It's still there.

Sure, you know what you are talking about Bonnie...sure!

Edgware

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hold up.....unionists went on a killing spree after ceasefires

Likes of greysteel/leighlinisland virtually all lvf killings only occured as they known the ira wouldnt push back

You let yourself down all the time. Facts are what matter not what you and Francie make up.

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

You let yourself down all the time. Facts are what matter not what you and Francie make up.

What 'facts' have I made up?

Surely you too are not backing bonniedog's version of what the 'Unionist Veto' was and that it is still in the GFA?

blanch152

Amazing how this thread has managed to deflect itself away from discussing Sinn Fein's abysmal failure to take any steps to form a government and the humiliation of Mary-Lou in the Dail yesterday.

Maybe Paddy Houlihan can save some blushes by getting elected to a position of importance on South Dublin County Council.

James Brown

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

From the irony in your posts- I can’t decide whether you are just not very bright or you are the wittiest person on here.

But answering a post where the constant whataboutery of SF supporters is being called out- with more whataboutery- gave me a little chuckle this morning.

Thank you

So a hypocrite. Will get all outraged for an ejit being an ejit but cool with O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Amazing how this thread has managed to deflect itself away from discussing Sinn Fein's abysmal failure to take any steps to form a government and the humiliation of Mary-Lou in the Dail yesterday.

Maybe Paddy Houlihan can save some blushes by getting elected to a position of importance on South Dublin County Council.

Nobody defended Holohan. It's hard to take hypocrites seriously who pretend to be outraged by him while O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts gets a pass is all.

maccored

Bonniedog wrote: »

Shinners were run by the Brits when the important negotiations were going on. Scap made sure that the boys toed the line. Donaldson and others told them everything they needed to know about internal dealings.

One of those who left claimed he was at crucial meeting before an Army Convention where he reckoned in hindsight that he was probably the only one not working for Brits or Special Branch in the room!

Must rank as one of MI5's most successful operations. Ended centuries of Irish resistance by catching a few of the main boys with kiddie porn, riding the family and stealing money to gamble.

You can say whatever you like about Mallon - and wouldnt have been great admirer back in the day - but he wasn't a criminal degenerate like those he despised.

right so basically - going by what you are saying - the brits were in fact fighting the brits.

Sere how stupid the idea is?

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Nobody defended Holohan. It's hard to take hypocrites seriously who pretend to be outraged by him while O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts gets a pass is all.

Bowie wrote: »

So a hypocrite. Will get all outraged for an ejit being an ejit but cool with O'Leary who openly admires the Blueshirts.

Calling a racist homophobe as just "an ejit (sic) being an ejit (sic)" is defending him.

Bonniedog

maccored wrote: »

right so basically - going by what you are saying - the brits were in fact fighting the brits.

Sere how stupid the idea is?

Not too well up on how the whole intelligence/informer thing works are you?