Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Truthvader

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Many do and many don't care. The disconnect between macroeconomic indicators and individual quality of life (the same disconnect which led to Enda Kenny's FG being so utterly gobsmacked at the hostility they faced during the 2016 election when compared with the "recovery" they believed based on macroeconomic indicators that they have gifted tothe Irish people) has led to people losing faith in and as a result becoming entirely indifferent to the former. Case in point, it was easier for people on part time incomes to afford flat rentals in 2011 than it is now for those same people on full time incomes. The Financial Times credited this with almost single-handedly delivering SF's surge in the election, stating that "Rents have increased by 40 per cent in the past five years, while average earnings have grown by just 14 per cent".

In that context, macroeconomics have been utterly meaningless to peoples's actual lived experiences, and as a knock on effect, anyone lecturing those voters about macroeconomics, either touting how good they are right now or warning about how bad they'd be if we pursued left wing policies, is seen as out of touch and insufferably irritating. Such a huge disconnect between rising incomes and the rising cost of living during a boom period has made many people question whether a boom period is actually good for individual quality of life - if all it achieves is the return of the "rip-off republic", then why should anyone be cheering for it?

This could be fixed at the policy level, but FF and FG have entirely abdicated their responsibility to do anything about the cost of living. Their neoliberal ideology does not regard individual quality of life as a responsibility of government. SF's left wing ideology does. As long as stagflation remains a problem, that's pretty much the only thing people care about while voting. From the point of view of many people I know, a bad fiscal position in five years is preferable to getting evicted this year because their rent keeps going up, and up, and up.

Can you blame people in their twenties and thirties for voting for short term relief in the face of long term pain, when the acute alternative is being evicted right now and being forced to move back home to their parents'?

What would you like them to do? In successful states prices of houses coffeee cigarettes and toothpaste go up because everyone has more money, they can afford more and better. I am open to suggestions but in a country where vast amounts of people earn €50k pa no--one will get a house for €20k because all the other people on 50k will outbid them . Plus the builders building the houses wiont work for €5k pa when they can earn €50k on the site next door. Whst would you like the government to actually do? One solutiion would be to tax the **** out of everyone working and build free houses for everyone. The problem is that everyone learns quickly and either stops working because why would you or gathers what cash they and gets out . What do you think we should do?

joeguevara

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Of course it is! Unfortunately, SF scored a spectacular own goal despite surely being perfectly well aware of the backlash it would provoke, and so here we are. That's what I meant earlier when I spoke of being disappointed. From "up the ra" at the election rally to this, SF have become the masters of political gaffes since the election in much the same way as FG were before it, and it's entirely avoidable from their point of view if they'd use the 'auld noggin a bit and think about PR. They were very good at doing so in the run up to the election, I honestly can't understand how they've managed to screw up so badly since then. SF in election mode and SF in post election mode have been two entirely different entities when it comes specifically to public relations.

So in short, yes, I fully agree that we should be discussing policy and not funerals. But I do have to concede that the reason we are not is SF's fault for doing something incredibly foolish with incredibly predictable consequences.

As I say, they and the rest of the Irish left still have my support because I do care more about fixing the stagflation issue policy-wise than anything else at the moment. But they're handing fuel to their opponents in the media and in politics on silver platters, and I just wish they'd stop doing it.

But everyone seems to be scoring own goals. Honestly how impressive would it be if one of our TDs stood up and told everyone to cop on. To think about our poor, young, sick, taxed, unemployed and lets do something to help them than talking about funerals. Future leader right there.

hatrickpatrick

Truthvader wrote: »

Problem with Pearse is , like all SinnFein candidates he brings nothing to the table. None of them ever had a real job. All "activists" of one kind or anothrer.

This is the kind of thing I was talking about over the page - as long as their ideology and [/i]policy position[/i] is anti-neoliberal, many of SF's newfound voters couldn't care less who's sitting at the table or what they were doing before they were sitting at it. And if you think that's a bad thing, you have nobody to blame but FF and FG for creating the conditions in which people are so desperate that they'll disregard pretty much any and all potential blots against someone's electability as long as they're in favour of reducing the cost of living through direct government intervention which will prompt relatively fast results, when compared with the indirect government action we've seen over the last ten years which has appeared to make things a hell of a lot worse.

Mortelaro

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's a moronic argument though. If the concern is about social distancing and the spread of COVID and not about anything else, then the same arguments apply. The virus doesn't give a f*ck who someone was or why people are gathering in a non socially distant manner, so either both sides are wrong and should be both criticised and told to stay away from Dáil business etc until they're past the incubation period for the virus, or neither. It's that simple.

As far as I'm concerned, both sides should be. Ignoring social distancing in the manner it was ignored for the sake of photo ops is moronically stupid and an insult to everyone who has suffered because of the nationwide quarantine. But to act as if the identity of the deceased justifies one and not the other when the controversy is supposedly about the transmission of COVID is essentially letting the mask slip that that's not really why people are bashing SF here, they're just using COVID as an excuse to do so.

The whole social distancing flouting by politicians was brought up by the shinners in the first place here and it its sister thread and debunked
If its moronic now just because its come to bite back at the shinners, it was moronic then
Conveniently for the shinners, if its them want it dropped, its their transgression thats both categorically proveable and blatant
I'm only pointing that out
Sides I'm not interested in
It is what it is now

FrancieBrady

PixieValentine wrote: »

He didn’t bring them up himself. He was asked. And then yes, did comment, but not about the funeral, which is what someone accused him of doing, using a funeral to score political points. He did refuse to comment on the funeral. His comment about the Dublin photo op was no more or less than what Mary Lou did when she was asked about his picnic. She too commented then when she could have declined to say anything at all. They all do THAT, and I won’t defend that but nor will I castigate them for doing it. I only commented about the “using a funeral is a new low” thing out of a sense of fairness because, he didn’t do that.

As to the comment about the Dublin appearance, I’m sorry, but if you think he was the only one talking about that, you’re wrong. There was a lot of commentary on her being in Dublin and them not being there. And quite frankly, they left themselves wide open to far worse from political opponents than a comparison being drawn between MON in Dublin and the Martin family staying away with her going when she didn’t actually need to be there, and then following that up with the funeral, and then also the handling of the aftermath of the funeral when people were upset. That’s what has me a bit baffled about the situation. I credit them with being way smarter than that.

I'll let the poster concerned take from here. To me, what he said made perfect sense.

hatrickpatrick

joeguevara wrote: »

But everyone seems to be scoring own goals. Honestly how impressive would it be if one of our TDs stood up and told everyone to cop on. To think about our poor, young, sick, taxed, unemployed and lets do something to help them than talking about funerals. Future leader right there.

Honestly, this is one of the things I liked about Mick Wallace when he was a TD and why I miss his presence in the Dáil (before anyone attacks me over discounting his tax issues, this is what I mean when I say that the current situation has pushed such issues to the side in favour of ideology and nothing more) - he regularly spoke out against the state of Irish politics itself while the people were suffering and the Oireachtas was doing nothing about it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/long-hair-and-raggy-jeans-mick-wallace-in-emotional-outburst-30044082.html

"The people are right to be cynical about politics, they're right to be cynical about politicians. This place is a joke. We play games in here. Well you know what? Sometimes these games lead to the unfair distribution of justice - or no justice being distributed. Sometimes these games lead to people losing their lives. They lead to murders. They lead to the families not getting any justice. And what do we so often when bad things raise their head? We see our police force circle the wagons, we see our politicians circle the wagons - do what it takes to cover up what we don't want to see, do what it takes to hide the truth. Is there any appetite for doing things any different in this house?"

In this case, Wallace was talking as he often did about Garda corruption and the lack of action from the Department of Justice on whistleblower allegations. But it can just as easily be applied to many areas of Irish politics. I miss having someone who was willing to say things straight in this manner without any window dressing or pseudo-intellectualism. We need more politicians who are willing to cut the crap and speak in these direct terms.

joeguevara

It seems that people are only interested in talking about funerals and have no interest in policies or issues. Does either side think they are going to change the other sides opinion on this. Going to be some 5 years ahead.

joeguevara

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Honestly, this is one of the things I liked about Mick Wallace when he was a TD and why I miss his presence in the Dáil (before anyone attacks me over discounting his tax issues, this is what I mean when I say that the current situation has pushed such issues to the side in favour of ideology and nothing more) - he regularly spoke out against the state of Irish politics itself while the people were suffering and the Oireachtas was doing nothing about it.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/long-hair-and-raggy-jeans-mick-wallace-in-emotional-outburst-30044082.html

"The people are right to be cynical about politics, they're right to be cynical about politicians. This place is a joke. We play games in here. Well you know what? Sometimes these games lead to the unfair distribution of justice - or no justice being distributed. Sometimes these games lead to people losing their lives. They lead to murders. They lead to the families not getting any justice. And what do we so often when bad things raise their head? We see our police force circle the wagons, we see our politicians circle the wagons - do what it takes to cover up what we don't want to see, do what it takes to hide the truth. Is there any appetite for doing things any different in this house?"

In this case, Wallace was talking as he often did about Garda corruption and the lack of action from the Department of Justice on whistleblower allegations. But it can just as easily be applied to many areas of Irish politics. I miss having someone who was willing to say things straight in this manner without any window dressing or pseudo-intellectualism. We need more politicians who are willing to cut the crap and speak in these direct terms.

And the only thing people wanted to say about him was the coulour of his shirt and his past business. Seem familiar?

hatrickpatrick

Mortelaro wrote: »

The whole social distancing flouting by politicians was brought up by the shinners in the first place here and it its sister thread and debunked
If its moronic now just because its come to bite back at the shinners, it was moronic then
Conveniently for the shinners, if its them want it dropped, its their transgression thats both categorically proveable and blatant
I'm only pointing that out
Sides I'm not interested in
It is what it is now

That wasn't what I was claiming was moronic, at all. I was stating that it was moronic for Sinn Fein to behave in this manner and flout social distancing rules, particularly after they attacked their opponents for doing the same thing.

All I'm saying is that ultimately, policy-wise from the point of view of many people, they remain the better choice regardless of how they behave. The stagflation issue has become so dire that people are willing to overlook pretty much every other issue when deciding which politicians and parties to support. But I do think SF were morons to do this. Handing unnecessary fuel to their opponents and creating a sh!tstorm which will surely be milked for weeks on end. They shouldn't have done it - it was wrong, it was hypocritical and it was moronic.

All I'm saying is that, similar to the issue of SF's IRA connections etc, I doubt many of their newfound voters will ultimately care when it comes to deciding who to vote for. This election was decided by one thing and one thing alone, the stagflation with regard to the cost of living vs average incomes. Until that issue is sorted, I don't personally believe that any number of idiotic gaffes is going to make or break any party. It's all about neoliberalism vs leftism as long as the gulf between income and the cost of living continues to widen.

That doesn't mean I excuse what they did, and I hope I've made that clear by now. It was wrong, it was hypocritical, it was stupid. And I'm hugely disappointed.

joeguevara

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

That wasn't what I was claiming was moronic, at all. I was stating that it was moronic for Sinn Fein to behave in this manner and flout social distancing rules, particularly after they attacked their opponents for doing the same thing.

All I'm saying is that ultimately, policy-wise from the point of view of many people, they remain the better choice regardless of how they behave. The stagflation issue has become so dire that people are willing to overlook pretty much every other issue when deciding which politicians and parties to support. But I do think SF were morons to do this. Handing unnecessary fuel to their opponents and creating a sh!tstorm which will surely be milked for weeks on end. They shouldn't have done it - it was wrong, it was hypocritical and it was moronic.

All I'm saying is that, similar to the issue of SF's IRA connections etc, I doubt many of their newfound voters will ultimately care when it comes to deciding who to vote for. This election was decided by one thing and one thing alone, the stagflation with regard to the cost of living vs average incomes. Until that issue is sorted, I don't personally believe that any number of idiotic gaffes is going to make or break any party. It's all about neoliberalism vs leftism as long as the gulf between income and the cost of living continues to widen.

That doesn't mean I excuse what they did, and I hope I've made that clear by now. It was wrong, it was hypocritical, it was stupid. And I'm hugely disappointed.

I think you’re right. Whoever is leading the PR spin against SF is getting it wrong again. It only solidifies their support and recruits people who are a bit undecided. I know as a person who is looking in, it’s not helping all the vitriol. Also any politician from the Republic who is lip syncing Arlene Foster is a fcucking moron. Jaysus lads, why not do a joint Black and Tans and Orange March while your at it.

Truthvader

joeguevara wrote: »

I think you’re right. Whoever is leading the PR spin against SF is getting it wrong again. It only solidifies their support and recruits people who are a bit undecided. I know as a person who is looking in, it’s not helping all the vitriol. Also any politician from the Republic who is lip syncing Arlene Foster is a fcucking moron. Jaysus lads, why not do a joint Black and Tans and Orange March while your at it.

Because anyone who calls them out on their "murder your way to power" history has to be an Orangeman. Google Gerry Fitt & Co. There was another way.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

Were social distancing guidelines disregarded at the Garda funeral, yes or no?

I'd be fairly confident that on the part of the Gardai and the bereaved that they weren't

joeguevara

Truthvader wrote: »

Because anyone who calls them out on their "murder your way to power" history has to be an Orangeman. Google Gerry Fitt & Co. There was another way.

I think the mainstream parties have found to their detriment that raising their past doesn’t effect them now. Look at Leo’s balaclava slip to Pearse as an example.

Time to forget the past. Stick to the present. Unless they are deemed an illegal party then deal with politics only. Raising what you think are insults about past only solidifies their support. Mainstream parties should continue at their peril.

hatrickpatrick

Truthvader wrote: »

What would you like them to do? In successful states prices of houses coffeee cigarettes and toothpaste go up because everyone has more money, they can afford more and better.

The problem is that in Ireland this is no longer the case - those prices are going up, but incomes are not keeping pace.

I am open to suggestions but in a country where vast amounts of people earn €50k pa no--one will get a house for €20k because all the other people on 50k will outbid them . Plus the builders building the houses wiont work for €5k pa when they can earn €50k on the site next door. Whst would you like the government to actually do? One solutiion would be to tax the **** out of everyone working and build free houses for everyone. The problem is that everyone learns quickly and either stops working because why would you or gathers what cash they and gets out . What do you think we should do?

Off the top of my head, the government has to disincentivise the use of existing property (both residential and commercial) as an investment vehicle, build large scale subsidised social housing like we did in the 20th century, engage in serious root-and-branch reform of personal injury laws so that businesses are no longer held liable for their patrons' own stupidity, reform the insurance sector, reduce VAT and excise duty for the hospitality sector, improve inter-city and inter-county public transport infrastructure, tackle commercial and private landlords to reduce the cost of housing and of doing business alike, and slash spending on vanity projects which nobody actually wants and public entities which refuse to get their own houses in order (take RTE for instance).

The first on that list is the big one and that's what I and many others talk about when we talk about smashing the paradigm of housing as an investment vehicle instead of as a place to live. The trading and subsequent of residential property by people and entities so they can be used to milk money from people in the form of rent is something we should never have normalised as a society - if you don't live in it and you didn't build it, you shouldn't be the one who owns it.

James Brown

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No blanch, that is just the criteria you have for allowing people to govern.

He forget FG Councilor O'Leary admiring the Blueshirts the other week and likening them to the resolve of FG today.
Also neglects the fact that the peace process happened in the 1990's.
Until we are a united country those issues remain unresolved but thankfully we've a peace.
I don't know what issues O'Leary might have to be admiring fascists from the 1930's.

FrancieBrady

Bowie wrote: »

He forget FG Councilor O'Leary admiring the Blueshirts the other week and likening them to the resolve of FG today.
Also neglects the fact that the peace process happened in the 1990's.
Until we are a united country those issues remain unresolved but thankfully we've a peace.
I don't know what issues O'Leary might have to be admiring fascists from the 1930's.

Yeh...the Peace Process that came from an Agreement that SF helped achieve...couldn't be having that, let's go back to one that didn't survive a wet week because of the very people SF and Irish people were up against.

James Brown

Mortelaro wrote: »

Repeatedly pointed out,Garda Horkans funeral was a State funeral so an entirely different case altogether

So it's the level of permission or stature separates them?
The issue is setting a bad example on social distancing. You'll get further with that, but alas have to include the state and Gardi to be fair.
The stature of one funeral being more important than an other is a fools argument as regards Covid 19.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It has been condemned across the political spectrum by all parties on the island apart from SF themselves. You see, this is classic example of how the moral compass of those sympathetic to SF differs from almost everyone else. To them, this is yet another attempt to smear the good name of the brave men and women of SF.



To others it's as clear as the nose on their face that this was a complete balls of a situation they created for themselves, and they now have absolutely no credibility in passing judgment or criticism on actions taken as a result of the biggest crisis to hit the world since WW2.



No other party in Ireland (indeed in Europe) would have sent their entire leadership team up to the funeral of a thug, terrorist, and bank robber.



Not a normal party.

FF/FG and the Unionists? Okay so, pillars of society

Moral compass my hole JF. They were as wrong as the Garda's funeral. Either treat like as like or cut the pearl clutching. It feels wrong bickering over people funerals TBH.

Now you're deciding who's deserving of mourning?

Not a normal opinion.

joeguevara

Why doesn’t either party stand up and admit none of this has anything to do with Covid. It’s pure oneupmanship and populist politics that helps nobody.

James Brown

Truthvader wrote: »

No it doesn't. And the problem is that you and your fellow Sinn Fein supporters simply don't know that.The ingrained criminality will mean that even in the times of the everlasting "peace process" you will not be able to stop yourselves which is why every now and then your members will kill someone, torture someone, steal something, throw a bottle at a Guard, launder diesel and generally betray your sub human bedrock. That is why the main parties want nothing to do with you and that is why you are incapable of understanding why

I'm not a SF supporter. I vote for them among others and if they changed their housing policy to one similar to FG I'd no longer vote for them.
That said I know who they are and where they come from. I'll not engage in telling you my views of certain parties because I know many fine people, good republicans too, from various parties including FG. I don't think it's anything to be proud of insulting people you don't know because they like the policies of one party over another.
You need to accept you repeating the same aul' ****e is not news and likely everyone who votes SF is aware of it.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

More lies and untruths. Varadkar did not talk about the funeral. I am sure you will deflect and run away rather than withdraw those remarks.

Mr Varadkar said he saw a “huge contrast” in the behaviour of Sinn Fein politicians with those of Taoiseach Micheal Martin, whose family were unable to travel to Cork to be with him as he became Ireland’s premier last weekend.

“I think it is important that politicians try to lead by example – there are rules and regulations that we make and we expect others to stick to them,” Mr Varadkar said.
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/politicians-should-lead-by-example-says-varadkar-39334789.html

So now what?

joeguevara

Bowie wrote: »

I'm not a SF supporter. I vote for them among others and if they changed their housing policy to one similar to FG I'd no longer vote for them.
That said I know who they are and where they come from. I'll not engage in telling you my views of certain parties because I know many fine people, good republicans too, from various parties including FG. I don't think it's anything to be proud of insulting people you don't know because they like the policies of one party over another.
You need to accept you repeating the same aul' ****e is not news and likely everyone who votes SF is aware of it.

I think everyone could benefit from this. And I mean everyone.

joeguevara

Bowie wrote: »

So now what?

A senior member from each party should do a joint press release telling everyone to shut up about parties and stop talking to journalists.

hatrickpatrick

Bowie wrote: »

I'm not a SF supporter. I vote for them among others and if they changed their housing policy to one similar to FG I'd no longer vote for them.

I think this is something a huge number of people honestly don't seem to get or can't actually relate to, and that both saddens me and makes a gigantic amount of sense in the context of Irish politics in general and even just this thread. That some of us see politicians as mere conduits for implementing statutory policy and therefore don't actually consider the person or party, merely the ideology and track record of being honest or dishonest about said ideology, when deciding who to vote for. I don't have a personal beef with FG, if they switched to a left-wing mentality overnight I'd vote for them in a heartbeat. I don't have a personal beef with FF, but even if they switched to a left-wing mentality overnight I'd hesitate to vote for them given their track record of outright lying to the public - FG are absolutely honest about their neoliberal ideology and intentions, FF are not. SF claim to have a left-wing mentality and whether they would flip flop once in power is something which remains to be seen, ergo I'll give them a chance.

Ultimately, what matters to me in politics is which pieces of legislation a TD or party will tick the "yes" box and which pieces of legislation they'll tick the "no" box when that piece of legislation comes before the Oireachtas. In my opinion, voting based on literally any other criteria whatsoever is a waste of a vote. Politicians exist as a conduit for the public to govern their country, if you're choosing who to vote for based on anything other than how they are likely to govern it and whether or not you agree with same, you are in my view wasting your vote. Of course everyone is free to vote as they wish, that's just my opinion of how the system works and the role of elections within that system.

What puzzles me is that this seems to be a minority view. I would have assumed that this is such an obvious fact of representative democracy that pretty much everyone would vote this way, but the majority up until recently do not seem to have. I think that's one of the reasons the election result shocked so many people, when young people finally engaged in their droves, they didn't follow anything but policy when deciding who to vote for. They looked at FF's policies which destroyed the economy just as they were coming of age, they looked at FG's policies which allowed the cost of living to spiral out of control and ruin their twenties, and finally they looked at SF's policies which, while untested, recognise that the cost of living is a problem to be fixed, which neither FF nor FG's policies actually acknowledge. And once that was sorted, the majority of folks in this generation couldn't care less what a politician had or hadn't done in their life outside politics, what mattered was which policies that politician would support in the Oireachtas and which they would not.

The fact that this is somehow seen as some kind of radical departure from "normal" ways of looking at politics is, to me, evidence that politics itself has been massively misused by successive generations until now. If so many people vote for reasons other than "I like this party's policy platform and I don't like this party's policy platform" then it's honestly no wonder we tend to end up with such crappy and unpopular governments.

Mortelaro

Bowie wrote: »

So it's the level of permission or stature separates them?
The issue is setting a bad example on social distancing. You'll get further with that, but alas have to include the state and Gardi to be fair.
The stature of one funeral being more important than an other is a fools argument as regards Covid 19.

I know that Garda Horkan's funeral was a state funeral as is the right of any Garda killed while on duty
I'd imagine but I don't know,that the numbers involved in officiating at a state funeral might trump the numbers rule but not social distancing or covid 19 precautions when counting for officiating attendees
So No,I'd disagree with the fools argument there
The public have been attending albeit in much much reduced numbers any funeral I know of,along the road,outside the church and outside the graveyard during this pandemic
Only close family were allowed comfort the bereaved in person usually

I'd be fairly confident that was the case with Garda Horkan's funeral

Look,the funeral of Bobby Storey was a difficult one
In the eyes of Republicans that was also a state funeral in all but name to them
Others here will not agree with me on that
I think the dead deserve respect and I think respect deserves respect
Meaning I'm not comfortable at all with the whole comparing funerals thing

I'd imagine Republican leaders knew the furore that would follow this funeral but took the calculated risk that they needed to show respect
The complication of course is many many people would have a different legitimate view of the late Bobby Storey and that's feeding this furore
MoN will probably get feedback from the PSNI

Posts are getting a lot longer here tonight
I'm too old for that

joeguevara

Bowie wrote: »

I'm not a SF supporter. I vote for them among others and if they changed their housing policy to one similar to FG I'd no longer vote for them.
That said I know who they are and where they come from. I'll not engage in telling you my views of certain parties because I know many fine people, good republicans too, from various parties including FG. I don't think it's anything to be proud of insulting people you don't know because they like the policies of one party over another.
You need to accept you repeating the same aul' ****e is not news and likely everyone who votes SF is aware of it.

Bowie, i have read the housing policies of all three parities. Each have their pros and cons. Each have their achievable short term and medium term goals. Fianna Fáil actually have the most pragmatic and benefits more of people in lower economic areas. Also the finance of it is easier to raise than the tax and spend of SF which is countercyclical. People should forget about political ideals and focus on what outcomes they want.

Darc19

SF are loving the publicity this is getting. You simply can't buy this type of coverage.

Their fervent supporters think the sun shines out of their backsides no matter what they do.

Their new younger voters think it's hilarious.


The media are trying their best to create a story that even I as someone who despises their policies and despises the violence that they are still connected to, think it's a total non story.

joeguevara

Mortelaro wrote: »

I know that Garda Horkan's funeral was a state funeral as is the right of any Garda killed while on duty
I'd imagine but I don't know,that the numbers involved in officiating at a state funeral might trump the numbers rule but not social distancing or covid 19 precautions when counting for officiating attendees
So No,I'd disagree with the fools argument there
The public have been attending albeit in much much reduced numbers any funeral I know of,along the road,outside the church and outside the graveyard during this pandemic
Only close family were allowed comfort the bereaved in person usually

I'd be fairly confident that was the case with Garda Horkan's funeral

Look,the funeral of Bobby Storey was a difficult one
In the eyes of Republicans that was also a state funeral in all but name to them
Others here will not agree with me on that
I think the dead deserve respect and I think respect deserves respect
Meaning I'm not comfortable at all with the whole comparing funerals thing

I'd imagine Republican leaders knew the furore that would follow this funeral but took the calculated risk that they needed to show respect
The complication of course is many many people would have a different legitimate view of the late Bobby Storey and that's feeding this furore
MoN will probably get feedback from the PSNI

Posts are getting a lot longer here tonight
I'm too old for that

State Funeral has specific reasons. One where it’s to convey a state of national mourning where it’s of national significance. Garda Horkan received this honour because he was brutally murdered in the line of duty. To use this now as a political football where no parties care other than point scoring is disrespectful to him, his family and to the people who risk their lives.

It is now disrespectful to besmirch this significance to use it as a political football. Equally it is counterproductive to use the funeral of a SF politician to call for the resignation of their key people.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

I'm not a SF supporter.

Hallelujah, we've converted you.
Apart from a good laugh it's bulk****.

joeguevara

Darc19 wrote: »

SF are loving the publicity this is getting. You simply can't buy this type of coverage.

Their fervent supporters think the sun shines out of their backsides no matter what they do.

Their new younger voters think it's hilarious.


The media are trying their best to create a story that even I as someone who despises their policies and despises the violence that they are still connected to, think it's a total non story.

But Darc that is the thing people are missing. I disagree with every single one of their policies. Tax and spend has never worked in any real sense. I would be the antithesis of the person they represent. Also their knowledge of things like Apple Tax etc is flawed.

Their constant attack on Central Bank with regards to mortgage repossessions is pointless as was their recent attack on insurance. But where people who disagree with policies don’t speak up to any party they do like (for me there is none) and allow this back and forth sh1te talk then it is allowing them to become more popular, increasing tension and divide in disaffected youth and will eventually lead to a country where it is governed by a party who fiscal plan is to bankrupt us.