Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady

blackwhite wrote: »

They did everything possible to give the impression that they were having a burial - otherwise why gather in the graveyard at all?

Political rally that they tried to dress up as something else.

No surprise to see the usual foot-soldiers crawling out of the woodwork to defend SF attempt at aping Trump's rally in Tulsa

They gathered for what the funeral notice said they were gathering for...' a short ceremony and oration'.

The normal way it is phrased is 'burial afterwards in X cemetery'

A bit like the supposed non engagement with the PSNI this one is being grasped upon and run with.

McMurphy

blackwhite wrote: »

They did everything possible to give the impression that they were having a burial - otherwise why gather in the graveyard at all?

Political rally that they tried to dress up as something else.

No surprise to see the usual foot-soldiers crawling out of the woodwork to defend SF attempt at aping Trump's rally in Tulsa

Wait a minute, if by "foot soldier" you mean someone who will point out complete and utter lies?

The graveside oration was organised and known about by anyone who was interested and intended to attend, including the media.

You told a deliberate and intentional lie, you got called out on it, now might be the time to stop digging.

blackwhite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They gathered for what the funeral notice said they were gathering for...' a short ceremony and oration'.

The normal way it is phrased is 'burial afterwards in X cemetery'

The "normal way" is the requiem mass, with burial afterwards in X cemetery. Not requiem mass - followed by speeches in location 2 - followed by burial/cremation somewhere completely differently.


A diversion half-way through a funeral, just to hold a political rally - during a pandemic.


I wonder how many other funerals in NI or the Republic take a detour between the Church and the final resting place (be it burial place, or crematorium) to hold a rally beside someone else's grave

blackwhite

McMurphy wrote: »

Wait a minute, if by "foot soldier" you mean someone who will point out complete and utter lies?

The graveside oration was organised and known about by anyone who was interested and intended to attend, including the media.

You told a deliberate and intentional lie, you got called out on it, now might be the time to stop digging.

They tried to paint it as happening at Storey's graveside - which was a lie in order to try and justify holding their Trump-style rally.

Not often you hear of a funeral taking a diversion to someone else's graveside for a few political speeches.

SF fans defending the indefensible as usual. The party can do no wrong - it's always someone else's fault.

FrancieBrady

blackwhite wrote: »

The "normal way" is the requiem mass, with burial afterwards in X cemetery. Not requiem mass - followed by speeches in location 2 - followed by burial/cremation somewhere completely differently.


A diversion half-way through a funeral, just to hold a political rally - during a pandemic.


I wonder how many other funerals in NI or the Republic take a detour between the Church and the final resting place (be it burial place, or crematorium) to hold a rally beside someone else's grave

Not very many. But funerals of ex IRA and key SF members follow this format for years.

Who did they fool in doing this? Certainly not the PSNI, who had people monitoring the crematorium and graveyard.
A delegation left the graveyard to go to the cremation, it wasn't a surprise.

It may have been wrong to plan to do it during a pandemic (I don't see why if social distancing rules were adhered to) but it is equally wrong to try and portray this as a sinister thing.

McMurphy

blackwhite wrote: »

They tried to paint it as happening at Storey's graveside - which was a lie in order to try and justify holding their Trump-style rally.

Not often you hear of a funeral taking a diversion to someone else's graveside for a few political speeches.

SF fans defending the indefensible as usual. The party can do no wrong - it's always someone else's fault.

In this case the "someone else being at fault" would be Mr Blackwhite for telling a fairly easily disproved deliberate and intentional lie.

The details of his funeral arrangements were widely known and planned for well in advance, you deliberately said a "pretend burial" and a "staged burial" - an out and out lie which is extraordinarily easy to disprove.

His funeral arrangements always had the crystal clear arrangements for a "short commemoration and oration" after the mass at Milltown republican plot.

There's plenty to criticise Sinn Fein over the funeral, but there's no need for blatant lies.

Are you going to withdraw the lie, or would you like the funeral arrangements posted on the thread?

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It may have been wrong to plan to do it during a pandemic (I don't see why if social distancing rules were adhered to) .

Regulations perhaps?
You know,regulations that every other private citizen funeral had to adhere to,because of COVID 19 like

joeguevara

Mortelaro wrote: »

Regulations perhaps?
You know,regulations that every other private citizen funeral had to adhere to,because of COVID 19 like

What are the Regulations in Northern Ireland for funerals on the date of the funeral.

Similarly what are the Regulations in Republic of Ireland for travel to Northern Ireland and return to the Republic of Ireland on the date of the funeral.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

Regulations perhaps?
You know,regulations that every other private citizen funeral had to adhere to,because of COVID 19 like

What regs were broken in organising the funeral?

I think you'll find it was the same as the regs that a blind eye was turned to in other circumstances too and given a pass by EVERYONE who could see it happening. for empathetic reasons (in my case anyhow)

But once again, we have the climb up on to the high moral ground.

SF should take whatever criticism and penalties are appropriate for breaches of the regs.

The high moral grounders using a funeral for political gain will soon go back from whence they came.

blackwhite

McMurphy wrote: »

In this case the "someone else being at fault" would be Mr Blackwhite for telling a fairly easily disproved deliberate and intentional lie.

The details of his funeral arrangements were widely known and planned for well in advance, you deliberately said a "pretend burial" and a "staged burial" - an out and out lie which is extraordinarily easy to disprove.

His funeral arrangements always had the crystal clear arrangements for a "short commemoration and oration" after the mass at Milltown republican plot.

There's plenty to criticise Sinn Fein over the funeral, but there's no need for blatant lies.

Are you going to withdraw the lie, or would you like the funeral arrangements posted on the thread?

Bad phrasing on my part maybe - but they did their best to give it all the trappings of a burial, when no burial was taking place.

All for the sake of a Trump-style political rally


Funny how all the SF die-hards get worked up over poor phrasing - but the key point will be ignored over, and over and over.

Gotta defend the cult no matter what :rolleyes:

Truthvader

Intrigued by all the posters seeking apologies from Sinn Fein/ IRA Mary Lou or Michelle on various issues.

The value of an apology is very much dependent on the integrity and moral character of the person issuing it.

An apology from any of these people is worthless. Can we move on?

FrancieBrady

blackwhite wrote: »

Bad phrasing on my part maybe - but they did their best to give it all the trappings of a burial, when no burial was taking place.

All for the sake of a Trump-style political rally


Funny how all the SF die-hards get worked up over poor phrasing - but the key point will be ignored over, and over and over.

Gotta defend the cult no matter what :rolleyes:

These type of funerals have been taking place for decades.

Incidentally, I have been in the graveyard for a gun salute over a coffin...and that was for an old FFer who was in what is known as the Old IRA. My dad, a friend of the man, was given an engraved bullet casing after. It is still about the house here somewhere.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What regs were broken in organising the funeral?

I think you'll find it was the same as the regs that a blind eye was turned to in other circumstances too and given a pass by EVERYONE who could see it happening. for empathetic reasons (in my case anyhow)

But once again, we have the climb up on to the high moral ground.

SF should take whatever criticism and penalties are appropriate for breaches of the regs.

The high moral grounders using a funeral for political gain will soon go back from whence they came.

Sinn Fein are the only ones “using a funeral for political gain”” as you put it.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Sinn Fein are the only ones “using a funeral for political gain”” as you put it.

:D yeh sure.

blackwhite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

These type of funerals have been taking place for decades.

Incidentally, I have been in the graveyard for a gun salute over a coffin...and that was for an old FFer who was in what is known as the Old IRA. My dad, a friend of the man, was given an engraved bullet casing after. It is still about the house here somewhere.

How many of those funerals involved calling to someone else's grave for a round of political speeches? How many of those brought a coffin to a graveyard with no intention of interring the coffin there?

And how many of those were during a pandemic?

FrancieBrady

blackwhite wrote: »

How many of those funerals involved calling to someone else's grave for a round of political speeches? How many of those brought a coffin to a graveyard with no intention of interring the coffin there?

And how many of those were during a pandemic?

Cremation, especially for Catholics, is a relatively new thing.

I fully accept that this was organised to eulogise a significant figure in republican circles.
But there was zero sinister about it. Those there knew it was symbolic, and serving the purpose of interring the ashes. Which is normally a separate ceremony after time has passed.

In other words they wanted to eulogise the man and pay tribute to him.

Mortelaro

Its a story refusing to go away understandably

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-53319231

Speaking for the Alliance Party, Kellie Armstrong said an apology for the ministers' attendance would not have been enough and she does not believe people can trust executive messaging again on Covid-19 because of their actions.

Daniel McCrossan said assembly members had to practise "what we preach".

The SDLP assembly member added that his party had wanted to pay a bigger tribute to long-standing MLA John Dallat, who died in May, but chose not to because of the coronavirus guidance.

He said to many people there was a "hierarchy of pain".

Meanwhile, Belfast City Council has strongly denied allegations 61 people attended Mr Storey's cremation.

The claim was made by UUP Belfast city councillor Jim Rodgers.

joeguevara

joeguevara wrote: »

What are the Regulations in Northern Ireland for funerals on the date of the funeral.

Similarly what are the Regulations in Republic of Ireland for travel to Northern Ireland and return to the Republic of Ireland on the date of the funeral.

Anyone?

blackwhite

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Cremation, especially for Catholics, is a relatively new thing.

I fully accept that this was organised to eulogise a significant figure in republican circles.
But there was zero sinister about it. Those there knew it was symbolic, and serving the purpose of interring the ashes. Which is normally a separate ceremony after time has passed.

In other words they wanted to eulogise the man and pay tribute to him.

It's a bit hard to inter the ashes before cremation - no doubt Johnny will be along soon to call you out on that "easily disproved deliberate and intentional lie" :rolleyes:


Not saying it was "sinister" - just that it was nothing more than SF putting on a show for a photo op beside someone else's grave - and highlights the hypocrisy of the SF cheerleaders who constantly whine that Varadkar is obsessed with photo ops.

Bonniedog

Hadn't realised that Big Bobby wasn't actually in the fkn box!

When the Beard dies they will probably embalm him and place him in a glass case in the Felons.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

In other words they wanted to eulogise the man and pay tribute to him.

As did 1000's of others in 100's of funerals but couldn't because of the rules

FrancieBrady

blackwhite wrote: »

It's a bit hard to inter the ashes before cremation - no doubt Johnny will be along soon to call you out on that "easily disproved deliberate and intentional lie" :rolleyes:


Not saying it was "sinister" - just that it was nothing more than SF putting on a show for a photo op beside someone else's grave - and highlights the hypocrisy of the SF cheerleaders who constantly whine that Varadkar is obsessed with photo ops.

Do you understand the meaning of 'symbolic'?

Yes, the cynical could say it was a 'photo op' opportunity. I am under no illusions about 'politics' and how funerals are used in Ireland generally.

I do think this was in the tradition of eulogising a big contributor to the party and that community.

To see the high moral grounders suddenly get sniffy about death and funeral etiqutte in Ireland is funny to watch though as if it was only SF who did or do these things around funerals (we all know the 'attending funeral jokes about the local TD/councillor of any hue)

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I fully accept that this was organised to eulogise a significant figure in republican circles.
But there was zero sinister about it.

What makes him so ****ing special, compared to thousands that have died during this pandemic?

The arrogance displayed by Sinn Fein and their supporters on this issue will have been an eye-opener. The pigs are just like the humans.

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

As did 1000's of others in 100's of funerals but couldn't because of the rules

No bother doing it when it was a 'servant of the state' though.
Which I would fully agree with and had absolutely no problem with the many visible breaches that happened there btw.

I can use empathy and compassion when it is appropriate and I think EVRYONE did around that event.

Bobby Storey was a huge figure in the community. His death was sudden and a shock.
If you want to discard your empathy fair enough.
I accept SF got it wrong and made mistakes, but trying to make it a bigger thing than it actually was is a bit disgusting of the people involved in that.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

In this case the "someone else being at fault" would be Mr Blackwhite for telling a fairly easily disproved deliberate and intentional lie.

The details of his funeral arrangements were widely known and planned for well in advance, you deliberately said a "pretend burial" and a "staged burial" - an out and out lie which is extraordinarily easy to disprove.

His funeral arrangements always had the crystal clear arrangements for a "short commemoration and oration" after the mass at Milltown republican plot.

There's plenty to criticise Sinn Fein over the funeral, but there's no need for blatant lies.

Are you going to withdraw the lie, or would you like the funeral arrangements posted on the thread?

So you accept that it was for political reasons that an oration was held at the graveside, because there was no other reason for it to take place?

Sinn Fein using a funeral for political purposes during a pandemic. Quelle surprise.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

What makes him so ****ing special, compared to thousands that have died during this pandemic?

The arrogance displayed by Sinn Fein and their supporters on this issue will have been an eye-opener. The pigs are just like the humans.

What makes anyone 'special' in death? Are we going to pretend now that everyone is treated equally in death and how they are buried?

It wasn't YOU who was burying him blanch, it was his family and his community and the party he belonged to.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

So you accept that it was for political reasons that an oration was held at the graveside, because there was no other reason for it to take place?

Sinn Fein using a funeral for political purposes during a pandemic. Quelle surprise.

It was a graveside oration at the place where his ashes would be interred later.

I am full sure there would be political content, politics and SF were a more than significant part of the man's life after all. But I am also sure the character of Storey the man and what he meant to people would have been addressed too. MON recited a Robert Frost poem I believe, hardly party political, is it?

Bonniedog

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It wasn't YOU who was burying him blanch.

Nobody buried him!

It was a piece of crass street theatre.

How many people who attended and lined the route knew this, that they were unpaid extras in some weirdness?

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No bother doing it when it was a 'servant of the state' though.
Which I would fully agree with and had absolutely no problem with the many visible breaches that happened there btw.

I can use empathy and compassion when it is appropriate and I think EVRYONE did around that event.

Bobby Storey was a huge figure in the community. His death was sudden and a shock.
If you want to discard your empathy fair enough.
I accept SF got it wrong and made mistakes, but trying to make it a bigger thing than it actually was is a bit disgusting of the people involved in that.

You are comparing Bobby Storey to a murdered Garda's state Funeral
Well done for the gaul
Your leader doesn't do that because she has more sense

FrancieBrady

Bonniedog wrote: »

Nobody buried him!

It was a piece of crass street theatre.

How many people who attended and lined the route knew this, that they were unpaid extras in some weirdness?

All funerals are a form of theatre Bonnie.
His funeral notice said that 'afterwards there would be a short ceremony and oration'.