Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Truthvader

Truthvader wrote: »

Statistics attached. Apologies. Half civilians

https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/troubles/troubles_stats.html

Your using 2 different source points....but the 400 odd catholic figure,your citing includes ira members who blew emselves up,killed as informers aswell.


Im unsure if it include the 12 republican hunger striker deaths aswell??

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Not killing simply because you got what you want doesn't make you a peacemaker.

Any word on how its going with the Guards/PSNI on all that crime you are reporting?

If you turn a blind eye to the facts you are not going to see the efforts made.
Carry on, you are trying to construct a false narrative. And as we have seen with your dubious 'statistics' that narrative fails when it is challenged by the facts.

Adam9213

Truthvader wrote: »

So why were half of the people they killed from their own community?

According to CAIN, the IRA was responsible for at least 1,705 deaths, about 48% of the total conflict deaths. Of these, at least 1,009 (about 59%) were members or former members of the British security forces, while at least 508 (about 29%) were civilians.

The civilian figure also includes civilians employed by British forces, politicians, members of the judiciary, and alleged criminals and informers. Most of the remainder were loyalist or republican paramilitary members; including over 100 IRA members accidentally killed by their own bombs or shot for being security force agents or informers. Overall, the IRA was responsible for over 90% of the total British security force deaths, and 27–30% of the total civilian deaths in the conflict.

timthumbni

Deleted User wrote: »

Im unsure if it include the 12 republican hunger striker deaths aswell??

Who knows? Though they did kill themselves or the republican leadership did not discourage them otherwise than to kill themselves. Great bit of propaganda for the provos/SF and also gave them great business opportunities to sell commemorative hunger strike dinner plates to dopey Irish Americans. (Or was it big slap up banquet fundraisers there. I can never remember.)

Edit.. probably both

Adam9213

timthumbni wrote: »

Who knows? Though they did kill themselves or the republican leadership did not discourage them otherwise than to kill themselves. Great bit of propaganda for the provos/SF and also gave them great business opportunities to sell commemorative hunger strike dinner plates to dopey Irish Americans. (Or was it big slap up banquet fundraisers there. I can never remember.)

If you actually had any clue what you were talking about you would know the IRA at first opposed Bobby Sands plans to start a hunger strike but Bobby insisted.

The strike was more about psychological warfare than anything else on one side you had Margaret Thatcher (British state) a posh snob sipping tea in her palace and on the other you had Bobby Sands (IRA) starving himself to death rambling about how much he loves his country.

From an international standpoint Thatcher was representing the British state and Bobby Sands was representing the IRA.

timthumbni

Adam9213 wrote: »

If you actually had any clue what you were talking about you would know the IRA at first opposed Bobby Sands plans to start a hunger strike but Bobby insisted.

The strike was more about psychological warfare than anything else on one side you had Margaret Thatcher (British state) a posh snob sipping tea in her palace and on the other you had Bobby Sands (IRA) starving himself to death rambling about how much he loves his country.

From an international standpoint Thatcher was representing the British state and Bobby Sands was representing the IRA.

I’m from Northern Ireland. I have very much a clue pal. Sure haven’t a few of the hunger striker families told SF to F off. Rambling is your words not mine.

As I said at least rich Irish Americans could buy the souvenir dinner plate or pay a 1000 bucks to have a big slap up feed and a rake of pints in their honour. Delicious.

Adam9213

timthumbni wrote: »

I’m from Northern Ireland. I have very much a clue pal. Sure haven’t a few of the hunger striker families told SF to F off. Rambling is your words not mine.

As I said at least rich Irish Americans could buy the souvenir dinner plate or pay a 1000 bucks to have a big slap up feed and a rake of pints in their honour. Delicious.

It annoys me when people are from Northern Ireland they automatically assume they know all about it.

Yeah they did but that's irrelevant.

timthumbni

Adam9213 wrote: »

It annoys me when people are from Northern Ireland they automatically assume they know all about it.

Yeah they did but that's irrelevant.

That’s a couple of strange sentences you have just posted. So you agree that Yes I know what I’m talking about as I’m actually from NI, but it’s irrelevant.

Okay I suppose.

Adam9213

timthumbni wrote: »

That’s a couple of strange sentences you have just posted. So you agree that Yes I know what I’m talking about as I’m actually from NI, but it’s irrelevant.

Okay I suppose.

Just cause you're from Northern Ireland doesn't mean you're educated on the troubles is what I was saying.

When you say you're from Northern Ireland I don't automatically think oh well then he must know what he's talking about.

timthumbni

Adam9213 wrote: »

Just cause you're from Northern Ireland doesn't mean you're educated on the troubles is what I was saying.

That’s possibly correct I suppose. But I am very “educated” regarding the troubles. I take it you aren’t from NI. ?

Adam9213

timthumbni wrote: »

That’s possibility correct I suppose. But I am very “educated” regarding the troubles. I take it you aren’t from NI. ?

No I'm not but I'm extremely educated on the subject.

Only if you lived in a Catholic area during the troubles would you actually know what it was really like, 24 hour surveillance of the civilian population, heavy occupation, even if you're an elderly woman you would be stopped and searched on the street, and if you were around in the early 70s in those areas you were literally living through a guerilla war similar to parts of the middle East.

Adam9213

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kK3Ff4ivkJA&t=3s

I only watched this video earlier no deaths or injuries on that day in that area but that's a good example of an average day in some areas back in the early 70s, nothing spectacular pretty average for those days.

timthumbni

Adam9213 wrote: »

No I'm not but I'm extremely educated on the subject.

Only if you lived in a Catholic area during the troubles would you actually know what it was really like, 24 hour surveillance of the civilian population, heavy occupation, even if you're an elderly woman you would be stopped and searched on the street, and if you were around in the early 70s in those areas you were literally living through a guerilla war similar to parts of the middle East.

Ok. My parents were stopped and searched all the time too and they weren’t catholics. That was the security services trying to stop knucklehead loyalist and republican terrorists from murdering people in general in NI.

You didn’t experience it and so therefore not much point in continuing this. Have a good night and don’t blindly believe what others tell you. Ta.

Adam9213

timthumbni wrote: »

Ok. My parents were stopped and searched all the time too and they weren’t catholics. That was the security services trying to stop knucklehead loyalist and republican terrorists from murdering people in general in NI.

You didn’t experience it and so therefore not much point in continuing this. Have a good night and don’t blindly believe what others tell you. Ta.

Even if that's true and not just an anecdotal case just to get your point across which it more than likely is they weren't stopped and searched to anywhere near the extent as if they lived in a Catholic area and if you deny that then I doubt you can even name the 6 counties.

Catholic areas were literally occupied, back in the early 70s Northern Ireland was the most heavily militarized zone on the planet and most of the soldiers (not all) were confined to Catholic areas.

timthumbni

Adam9213 wrote: »

Even if that's true and not just an anecdotal case just to get your point across which it more than likely is they weren't stopped and searched to anywhere near the extent as if they lived in a Catholic area and if you deny that then I doubt you can even name the 6 counties.

Catholic areas were literally occupied, back in the early 70s Northern Ireland was the most heavily militarized zone on the planet and most of the soldiers (not all) were confined to Catholic areas.

Hmmm. Is that possibly because the terrorist grouping most associated with attacking them were from within a particular community? What do you think?

You have to know (and I realise you have no notion personally) that a lot of areas were and still are mixed out with the cities so everyone experienced the army/police stopping them.

Belfast/Londonderry different of course but sure even now you wouldn’t want to park your car around plenty of areas of west Belfast or the bogside.

dundalkfc10

timthumbni wrote: »

Hmmm. Is that possibly because the terrorist grouping most associated with attacking them were from within a particular community? What do you think?

You have to know (and I realise you have no notion personally) that a lot of areas were and still are mixed out with the cities so everyone experienced the army/police stopping them.

Belfast/Londonderry different of course but sure even now you wouldn’t want to park your car around those plenty of areas of west Belfast or the bogside.

I visit the bogside regularly, every time Dundalk play Derry away and the locals are as welcoming as any other part of Ireland.

Watched this year's All Ireland replay in a pub on the bogside before a Cup final for Dundalk and the locals had great craic with us

timthumbni

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I visit the bogside regularly, every time Dundalk play Derry away and the locals are as welcoming as any other part of Ireland.

Watched this year's All Ireland replay in a pub on the bogside before a Cup final for Dundalk and the locals had great craic with us[/QUOTE

I’m sure you have a lot in common though. I always find Londonderry such a depressing town. The bogside looks like something from a soviet architect’s nightmare. And let’s face it, it’s a town and a pretty depressing one at that. Northern Ireland has really only one proper city and that’s Belfast.

Londonderry, Lisburn, and Newry are taking the pish.

Ten of Swords

Randy Archer, take a month away from the Current Affairs forum.

When you return, you are permanently banned from posting in this thread

Adam9213

timthumbni wrote: »

Hmmm. Is that possibly because the terrorist grouping most associated with attacking them were from within a particular community? What do you think?

You have to know (and I realise you have no notion personally) that a lot of areas were and still are mixed out with the cities so everyone experienced the army/police stopping them.

Belfast/Londonderry different of course but sure even now you wouldn’t want to park your car around plenty of areas of west Belfast or the bogside.

Yeah that's exactly the reason why, I thought that was obvious don't know why you're asking me.

My point is just that the guerilla war was based around those areas, that's where the war was, I know that everyone got stopped by the army but nowhere near as much as the people in the Catholic areas.

dundalkfc10

timthumbni wrote: »

Hmmm. Is that possibly because the terrorist grouping most associated with attacking them were from within a particular community? What do you think?

You have to know (and I realise you have no notion personally) that a lot of areas were and still are mixed out with the cities so everyone experienced the army/police stopping them.

Belfast/Londonderry different of course but sure even now you wouldn’t want to park your car around plenty of areas of west Belfast or the bogside.

You wouldn't want to park your car around many parts of every town/city in the world.

Adam9213

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

You wouldn't want to park your car around many parts of every town/city in the world.

I don't know what he's on about tbh, pretty sure he's not even from Northern Ireland and is just making up anecdotes to make his points seem more valuable.

timthumbni

Adam9213 wrote: »

Yeah that's exactly the reason why, I thought that was obvious don't know why you're asking me.

My point is just that the guerilla war was based around those areas, that's where the war was, I know that everyone got stopped by the army but nowhere near as much as the people in the Catholic areas.

And you from quite a distance know the reason why then.

Anyway SF have made a holy show of themselves again regarding yer mans fake funeral/cremation. I don’t discriminate. The loyalists have acted the dick around their wee bonfires too. I suppose the difference is Arlene wasn’t in selfies around the bonies...

Imagine taking part in a public health announcement to the public regarding a pandemic after taking selfies at an ira provo funeral. Hardly leadership for a country.

timthumbni

Adam9213 wrote: »

I don't know what he's on about tbh, pretty sure he's not even from Northern Ireland.

I realise you don’t know (😂)but even some of the bots on here will know and confirm to you I’m definitely from NI. I’m a NI unionist. You may not have heard of them.

timthumbni

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

You wouldn't want to park your car around many parts of every town/city in the world.

Very true but come on. You go to Belfast Shopping you don’t park in west Belfast. You go to Londonderry shopping and you don’t park in the Bogside. You could of course but you would be pretty damn stupid to do so.

dundalkfc10

timthumbni wrote: »

Very true but come on. You go to Belfast Shopping you don’t park in west Belfast. You go to Londonderry shopping and you don’t park in the Bogside. You could of course but you would be pretty damn stupid to do so.

Park my car or friends car in bogside every time Dundalk play Derry (over 20 yrs going now) never an issue

Adam9213

timthumbni wrote: »

I realise you don’t know (😂)but even some of the bots on here will know and confirm to you I’m definitely from NI. I’m a NI unionist. You may not have heard of them.

Let's just say I'm not a fan of them.

timthumbni

Adam9213 wrote: »

Let's just say I'm not a fan of them.

A man of your non experience? I’m shocked.

Adam9213

Anyway my point was just because someone is from Northern Ireland doesn't mean they know what they're talking about, I see northern Irish history simply as Irish history there's no difference to me.

Adam9213

timthumbni wrote: »

A man of your non experience? I’m shocked.

And what experience do you have? None at all just that you live on the other side of the border and think that makes you a historian on the troubles.

I think I know about it because I'm fascinated by it and I used to and still do sometimes spend hours reading up about it I don't think there's really anyone who knows more about it than me unless you have private information which has never been released to the public.

I'm Irish meaning it's my history no matter what county I live in.

timthumbni

Adam9213 wrote: »

Anyway my point was just because someone is from Northern Ireland doesn't mean they know what they're talking about, I see northern Irish history simply as Irish history there's no difference to me.

Hmmm. Then you will realise that in the modern day troubles in NI that the ira murdered more people than anyone else involved. They also murdered a hell of a lot of catholics. Many more than the hated RUC for example.

I suggest that you digest that and then come back.