Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Truthvader

Still out there pushing "the RUC robbed the bank" Sinn Fein doublethink fantasy - and Francie saying he is not an IRA supporter. Its all too much.

Plus the usual mad sad Sinn Fein focus on imaginary British Government conspiracies. All the Brits ever wanted was for Gerry and the heroes to stop killing and maiming innocent people and to get out. They would have and did talk to anyone. The reality is that the Sinn Fein IRA just wanted power and binned the stupid "United Ireland" program as soon as Gerry got what he wanted. Even poor Mary Lou's "United Ireland" bleating has more or less stopped now in favour of more populist fodder such as anti water charges/ free housing for all/ moron vote catching sound bites. Power is all they wanted - and they murdered there way to it in Northern Ireland. Result; a non functioning government of a sad useless statelet overseen by bigots and thugs incapable of speaking to each other, propped up by endless cash from the British Government

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Like when Gerry Adams was never in the IRA?

Go on Mark...look up my opinion on that...again and again I have said, 'I simply don't know if he was or not'.

Adams is like Donald Trump with his bare-faced lies. He lies so much he doesn't even know it. And we have our MAGA hat-wearing cheerleaders here to match those across the pond with zealot brainwashing.

What 'lies' can you prove he has told Mark?

You not believing something is NOT evidence of a lie.

And people who believe that a fully armed group (negotiating a deal which favoured nationalism to their satisfaction) was 'defeated/or surrendered' are the one's suffering from zealous self delusion tbh.

My view on that is also on record: both sides reached a stalemate and negotiated a settlement that they both wanted. The British side tried to get the other to surrender, but that failed if you look at the fact that Major capitulated on his disarming demand.

maccored

Truthvader wrote: »

Still out there pushing "the RUC robbed the bank" Sinn Fein doublethink fantasy - and Francie saying he is not an IRA supporter. Its all too much.

Plus the usual mad sad Sinn Fein focus on imaginary British Government conspiracies. All the Brits ever wanted was for Gerry and the heroes to stop killing and maiming innocent people and to get out. They would have and did talk to anyone. The reality is that the Sinn Fein IRA just wanted power and binned the stupid "United Ireland" program as soon as Gerry got what he wanted. Even poor Mary Lou's "United Ireland" bleating has more or less stopped now in favour of more populist fodder such as anti water charges/ free housing for all/ moron vote catching sound bites. Power is all they wanted - and they murdered there way to it in Northern Ireland. Result; a non functioning government of a sad useless statelet overseen by bigots and thugs incapable of speaking to each other, propped up by endless cash from the British Government

again you seem to have a bit of difficulty in the reading department.

whats being put forward is that you can - going by what has been found so far in the investigation - blame the RUC as much as anyone. You still havent shown any reason to blame the IRA outside of other people saying it. You ignore facts and promote hearsay.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Were SF allowwd to the negotiatong table SS?
I never said anything about 'meetings'.

Sinn Fein were allowed to the negotiating table after Sinn Fein leaked the FACT that the British had already been negotiating with an armed IRA for the past 3 years. A FACT that you have spent the last number of pages denying.

Instead you are wedded to the idea that “it was the bombs what done it”. Swallowing hook, line and sinker the republican myth that the armed campaign was worthwhile and effective and that the IRA were an undefeated army. You not only seek to vindicate the bombing campaign you positively revel in it, writing how it struck at the British heartland, like something straight out of a Boys Own comic.

You will note the IRA contact with the British following the Warrington bomb which stated
“the war is over but we need your help to end it”.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Sinn Fein were allowed to the negotiating table after Sinn Fein leaked the FACT that the British had already been negotiating with an armed IRA for the past 3 years. A FACT that you have spent the last number of pages denying.

Instead you are wedded to the idea that “it was the bombs what done it”. Swallowing hook, line and sinker the republican myth that the armed campaign was worthwhile and effective and that the IRA were an undefeated army. You not only seek to vindicate the bombing campaign you positively revel in it, writing how it struck at the British heartland, like something straight out of a Boys Own comic.

You will note the IRA contact with the British following the Warrington bomb which stated
“the war is over but we need your help to end it”.

US Congressman Bruce Morrison or Kings College London are hardly hotbeds of 'republican mythmaking' and both of them accaept that Canary Wharf and other bombings led to the British accepting SF at the table.

The facts SS, you cannot just throw them out because it might lead to somebody claiming you are glorifying the act.

I am not glorifying or gloating, merely stating what actually happened.

You need to face up to those facts, unpalatable as they are, if you are going to discuss seriously.

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

PIRA plants a bomb in the middle of an English market town on a Saturday afternoon which kills a 3 year old toddler and 12 year old boy.... who to blame?
The British.

Weren't you blaming the PSNI for the death of Lyra McKee earlier?

I don't think anyone should take your views on the matter seriously.

Mate....your claiming they run by the british....surely its a fairly obvious extraction then,the brits are to blame for the bombing??



Your happy enough to badger a poster for how x incident helped nationlists......how did it help british security,letting it go ahead (since yous believe ira riddled with informers,surely the brits are to blame,for not stopping it??)?

markodaly

markodaly wrote: »

And we have our MAGA hat-wearing cheerleaders here to match those across the pond with zealot brainwashing.

Mate....you literally spend all day and night,posting comspiracy theories,which contradicte each other......


and then demand anyone who points this contradiction out,opioion be not be taken seriously

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

US Congressman Bruce Morrison or Kings College London are hardly hotbeds of 'republican mythmaking' and both of them accaept that Canary Wharf and other bombings led to the British accepting SF at the table.

The facts SS, you cannot just throw them out because it might lead to somebody claiming you are glorifying the act.

I am not glorifying or gloating, merely stating what actually happened.

You need to face up to those facts, unpalatable as they are, if you are going to discuss seriously.

Discuss it seriously? You scramble to Wikipedia to try to shore up your argument, after already changing the goalposts. Then offer the opinion of a US congressman as “proof” while your response to the opinion of hundreds of experts on the Troubles to Gerry Adams IRA membership and the Northern Bank Robbery is “I don’t know”.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Discuss it seriously? You scramble to Wikipedia to try to shore up your argument, after already changing the goalposts. Then offer the opinion of a US congressman as “proof” while your response to the opinion of hundreds of experts on the Troubles to Gerry Adams IRA membership and the Northern Bank Robbery is “I don’t know”.

'Wikipedia'? WTF? :D You really do depend on your biased perceptions don't you?

You are so biased that you cannot let yourself think that actions by the IRA or indeed any side had consequences and outcomes. It would somehow be a defeat for you.

I can accept that the republican side took many wrong turns, and did stuff that was wrong and counter productive and counter to any moral code. I can also see without defending it, that things they did had an effect that worked out well for the republican side.

But you cannot look at the whole picture...very strange but very indicative of a certain mindset.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Wikipedia'? WTF? :D You really do depend on your biased perceptions don't you?

You are so biased that you cannot let yourself think that actions by the IRA or indeed any side had consequences and outcomes. It would somehow be a defeat for you.

I can accept that the republican side took many wrong turns, and did stuff that was wrong and counter productive and counter to any moral code. I can also see without defending it, that things they did had an effect that worked out well for the republican side.

But you cannot look at the whole picture...very strange but very indicative of a certain mindset.

Well bias of a zealot is the inability to entertain doubt. You “don’t know” if Gerry Adams was in the IRA, despite the testimony of former comrades and all the indications that he was. Yet are completely, unalterably convinced that the IRA campaign of violence “worked out well for the republican side”. No doubt, no circumspection, no entertainment of counter argument.

That is clear bias on your behalf Frankie. Your “big picture” view is through the prism of your own prejudices.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Well bias of a zealot is the inability to entertain doubt. You “don’t know” if Gerry Adams was in the IRA, despite the testimony of former comrades and all the indications that he was. Yet are completely, unalterably convinced that the IRA campaign of violence “worked out well for the republican side”. No doubt, no circumspection, no entertainment of counter argument.

That is clear bias on your behalf Frankie. Your “big picture” view is through the prism of your own prejudices.

Former bitter comrades for one reason or another are unreliable and there is as much sense in Adams not being a member for strategic reasons as there were for him being a member.
As I say, I don't know if he was or not, and further, I am not sure...well actually I am...if I care one way or another if he was. Nobody has convinced me what actual difference it makes one way or another.

I didn't say the IRA campaign of violence worked out well for the republican side either. The violence of the conflict/war diminished everyone involved in it.
But you cannot deny the success of the GFA for nationalists surely...can you?
And SF getting themselves to that table was a success.
How that came about is there in the factual history, ignore it if you wish...but your ignorance diminishes your argument and puts you on a certain side with a certain mindset that will be familiar to any historians of the era.

costacorta

maccored wrote: »

'known sympathiser' ... so neither in the IRA or SF. Thats cleared that up. I did say no hearsay btw, only actual facts linking to SF or the IRA.

Not hearsay did you not see him being jailed for money laundering. I can’t prove anyone was or is In SF Or IRA but I do know he was a sympathiser and had money from NI bank raid found so unless police planted it I think it’s fair to say it was IRA money ..

costacorta

https://sluggerotoole.com/tag/ted-cunningham/. Just in case you think it’s hearsay

FrancieBrady

costacorta wrote: »

https://sluggerotoole.com/tag/ted-cunningham/. Just in case you think it’s hearsay

Far as I know that case is being contested by Cunningham. So an 'I don't know' approach needs to be taken with it.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Far as I know that case is being contested by Cunningham. So an 'I don't know' approach needs to be taken with it.

Ah now Francie, you know as well as I do that he pleaded guilty to 9 out of the 10 charges 3 days into his retrial. The fact that he began high court proceedings in 2019 to see where the 3m that was seized from his house went (and as per court papers not him wanting it back) is not him contesting it.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

Ah now Francie, you know as well as I do that he pleaded guilty to 9 out of the 10 charges 3 days into his retrial. The fact that he began high court proceedings in 2019 to see where the 3m that was seized from his house went (and as per court papers not him wanting it back) is not him contesting it.

He pleaded guilty to money laundering yes, but denies it was Northern Bank money.

https://www.thesun.ie/news/5045039/ted-cunningham-northern-bank-robbery-suing-state/

Truthvader

Honest Ted??

That's the end of that so

joeguevara

Truthvader wrote: »

Honest Ted??

That's the end of that so

The money from Eastern European Business men that just happened to be resting in his account. As Francie has already agreed with, he pleaded guilty to money laundering so TC explanation of legitimate busiessmen is bullsh1t.

But I did hear that Derry City had a £26.5 million offer for Ronaldinho turned down in 2004 so who knows what to believe.

maccored

costacorta wrote: »

Not hearsay did you not see him being jailed for money laundering. I can’t prove anyone was or is In SF Or IRA but I do know he was a sympathiser and had money from NI bank raid found so unless police planted it I think it’s fair to say it was IRA money ..

so anyone done for money laundering is automatically linked to the robbery? How do you work that out. as I say, no-one in SF or the IRA has ever been put away or charged with the robbery. yet there was 50 gs in an RUC leisure centre directly linked to the robbery.

Explain that one for me (and leave out the hilarious 'the ira snuck in and put it there' routine)

maccored

costacorta wrote: »

https://sluggerotoole.com/tag/ted-cunningham/. Just in case you think it’s hearsay

wasnt he an ex SF councillor? IE, not in SF?

Today, Cunningham pleaded guilty to money laundering £100,040 stg on January 15th 2005 by transferring it to John Douglas in Tullamore, Co Offaly.

He also pleaded guilty to money laundering £175,360 on February 7th 2005 by transferring it to John Sheehan in Ballincollig, Co Cork and receiving three cheques totalling €200,000.

Never said the money was from the bank robbery. he was accused of that, but they found him guilty on money laundering. no specifics that it was Northern Bank money

Bonniedog

Looks like the Hume family are not going to stage a false funeral for publicity purposes. And shinners apparently having fkn cheek to demand that more of them are allowed into the Cathedral!

maccored

Bonniedog wrote: »

Looks like the Hume family are not going to stage a false funeral for publicity purposes. And shinners apparently having fkn cheek to demand that more of them are allowed into the Cathedral!

whats that got to do with anything? More anti SF personal opinion?

Bonniedog

maccored wrote: »

whats that got to do with anything? More anti SF personal opinion?

You might recall they pretended to bury Big Bobby a while back to get the punters out?

They are now complaining that the list they sent to the funeral organisers of shinner liggers has been cut back. Adams, O'Neill and whoever the MP is will be there. They are trying to get ML and others in for the photo op.

Shameless fks.

JohnnyFlash

maccored wrote: »

whats that got to do with anything? More anti SF personal opinion?

It does show how a true Irish patriot and nationalist can be celebrated during an unprecedented global pandemic without having to bus in a load of fat men with 2 blade shave cuts from around Ireland to form a sinister cortège.

Edgware

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It does show how a true Irish patriot and nationalist can be celebrated during an unprecedented global pandemic without having to bus in a load of fat men with 2 blade shave cuts from around Ireland to form a sinister cortège.

Cushy Butterfield will want to travel up from Dublin for the group photo. She is low in the publicity stakes lately.

Bonniedog

Edgware wrote: »

Cushy Butterfield will want to travel up from Dublin for the group photo. She is low in the publicity stakes lately.

If it's a choice between ML and Michelle i wonder who they will pick?

Adams obviously should be there and one SF leader. That would be it. Can't imagine that other parties will be trying to get anyone not invited.

He has a big family so numbers of politicos be severely curtailed.

costacorta

maccored wrote: »

so anyone done for money laundering is automatically linked to the robbery? How do you work that out. as I say, no-one in SF or the IRA has ever been put away or charged with the robbery. yet there was 50 gs in an RUC leisure centre directly linked to the robbery.

Explain that one for me (and leave out the hilarious 'the ira snuck in and put it there' routine)

The dogs in the street know it was NI bank money hidden in wheelie bins around his house . I know the man and his family and actually a lovely man but also well known RA supporter .

Truthvader

costacorta wrote: »

The dogs in the street know it was NI bank money hidden in wheelie bins around his house . I know the man and his family and actually a lovely man but also well known RA supporter .

You will find that the Sinn Fein IRA crew will demand proof of everything. A devotion to standards of proof and accountability not afforded to the young kids they were so happy to maim in punishment beatings and shootings

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It does show how a true Irish patriot and nationalist can be celebrated during an unprecedented global pandemic without having to bus in a load of fat men with 2 blade shave cuts from around Ireland to form a sinister cortège.

The SDLP avoided the outrage of the high moral grounders just before Storey's funeral when social distancing was ignored.
Like the state funeral everyone gave it a pass as it was a funeral.
Not so for the Shinners, yeh couldnt let a good bashing op like that go.

Bishop of hope

maccored wrote: »

so anyone done for money laundering is automatically linked to the robbery? How do you work that out. as I say, no-one in SF or the IRA has ever been put away or charged with the robbery. yet there was 50 gs in an RUC leisure centre directly linked to the robbery.

Explain that one for me (and leave out the hilarious 'the ira snuck in and put it there' routine)

You're very peaved about this macco, what are you afraid of?
Shur it was the greatest robbery ever and the boys got away with it to boot.
Thats some achievement when you think about it.