Is it just me or have SF vanished?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

So why do you believe the photos of him having dinner and buying shoes contribute to pattern of lacking empathy?

Because I ask myself...at a time when everyone else is having to curtail themselves socially why is the Taniste plastering photo's of himself leading a normal life over social media?

It's the 'look at me' nature of them, which would be silly on their own, the type of thing you see on FB and Twitter all the time, but which when coupled with all the other stuff, depicts somebody who has issues.

Should politicians be more sensitive about this stuff...yes in my opinion...SF included.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because I ask myself...at a time when everyone else is having to curtail themselves socially why is the Taniste plastering photo's of himself leading a normal life over social media?

It's the 'look at me' nature of them, which would be silly on their own, the type of thing you see on FB and Twitter all the time, but which when coupled with all the other stuff, depicts somebody who has issues.

Should politicians be more sensitive about this stuff...yes in my opinion...SF included.

They didn't open the restaurant specifically for him. Lots of people were socializing while respecting regulations at the time and helping the economy in the process.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

They didn't open the restaurant specifically for him. Lots of people were socializing while respecting regulations at the time and helping the economy in the process.

When are you going to accept the point of view that all that is fine...if you cancel out the more serious instances?


Stop with the dis-ingenuousness.

It isn't just me that has observed this about him.

My final word for now is... if you are a FGer...get on to HQ and have Leo locked away for a period, like you did with with Harris and Murphy and Enda because Leo will take you back to 21% territory.

JohnnyFlash

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When are you going to accept the point of view that all that is fine...if you cancel out the more serious instances?


Stop with the dis-ingenuousness.

It isn't just me that has observed this about him.

My final word for now is... if you are a FGer...get on to HQ and have Leo locked away for a period, like you did with with Harris and Murphy and Enda because Leo will take you back to 21% territory.

Nah, dude. The guy has a 75% approval rating. Your fantasies aren’t reality.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What?

FF and FG spent most of the last 100 yrs turning a blind eye to what was going on in NI when Irish people were getting beaten of the streets and shot. (call it killing or murder, whatever)

Still do unless there is political gain for them in something that has gone on.

100% absolute falsity and nonsense.

The situation in Northern Ireland consumed domestic politics from 1969 onwards. Apart from mistakes such as the "arms trial" effort to add more guns to the situation every administration put huge effort into finding and implementing any solution that would distract Gerry Adams and the crew from their dedication to murder and savagery as a solution or would persuade the unionist majority either to consider a united Ireland or some kind of power sharing arrangement. The united Ireland solution was put back 100 years by the campaign of murder while the "power sharing" has largely failed as the two sides are not enthusiastic to share anything. At least the murder campaign seems to be over.

What the Sinn Fein cheer leaders probably mean is that FF/FG did not support the Sinn Fein/IRA blood and death "solution" in some kind of military adventure. This of course worked out so well for the Argentinians in 1982

padd b1975

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

How in the name of Jesus was Louise O’Reilly demoted from the health portfolio in favour of Free State Bastards Cullinane?

The guy is a gombeen.

They obviously don't want to go anywhere near that particular piece of heavy lifting if they get into government.

Much more sensible to stick a clown like Cullinane in there while still in the bleachers and let him fire off a few brickbats safe in the knowledge that any potential government partner wouldn't entertain him being anywhere near cabinet.

hatrickpatrick

Niallof9 wrote: »

brilliantly put markodaly

In any other country a SF party with their structure and ideals and blood on their hands would be probably a right wing party. i mean a real left wing party would admit to all the structures etc. Cloak and daggers is normally the rights way. You can't be outraged when you are making the hard decisions.

This is exactly the problem with Irish politics - ye’re all so obsessed with means that you’re entirely ignoring ideology and intended ends. What defines a left or right wing party is not how they behave, it’s what they believe in. Sinn Fein believes in the state guaranteeing a quality of life for its citizens, therefore they are economically a left wing party. Fine Gael believe in allowing the free market to dictate the quality of life for citizens - come what may - and therefore they are economically a right wing party. Their structure, means, etc are entirely irrelevant to defining where they sit on the economic left-right spectrum - and what seems to be so alarming to those who support right wing economics is the fact that an entire generation of young voters more or less has fundamentally turned against right wing economics to the extent that they are willing to overlook a party’s past crimes and allegations of an undemocratic structure because, ultimately, as long as they get their left wing economic policies and an and to stagflation, they simply don’t care who is introducing those policies.

That’s what’s really happening here. Establishment supporters are freaking out because they’re being forced to concentrate on policy and ideology alone. They bring up the personalities and behaviors of politicians only to discover that the people they’re debating with don’t care. This is a marked departure from how Irish politics has generally operated before this decade and those who are used to playing by those rules have no idea how to operate in the new paradigm they and their politicians have created.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: we now have a generation of young people who would vote for a serial killing paedophile dropout over a straight A student with a PhD if the latter supported neoliberal economics and the former believes in government intervention to stop the stagflation that’s been going on. And none of you seem to have grasped this yet. To this generation, policy is the only thing that matters - policy here, now, today. That’s it. Someone who seems to genuinely want to address the growing gulf between average income and the cost of living will get a vote over someone who wants to let the market dictate peoples’ lives. It doesn’t matter who those people are. A left wing Josef Fritzl would get a vote over a right wing Florence Nightingale if this cohort of voters were given that option.

I don’t want to keep linking to the same news stories over and over again but the financial times article I’ve linked before which analysed this year’s general election summed it up perfectly - he cost of housing has soared by more than 40% in three years while the average income has risen by, IIRC, 14%. In that paradigm, it shouldn’t be hard to understand why so many voters care about this and only this when deciding who to vote for!

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again the Huff and the complete lack of awareness that it isn't just me who has observed this:


https://www.google.com/search?q=Leo+Varadkar%27s+lack+of+empathy&oq=Leo+Varadkar%27s+lack+of+empathy&aqs=chrome..69i57.179330j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Oh, a URL of a Google Search... is that supposed to be proof of something?

Hmm, let's see if we can play that game.
So, you searched about Leo and his lack of empathy comes to 118k results
Meanwhile, if I type in the words "Gerry Adams Murderer" we get a whopping 1.5 million results!!

I guess more than 15 times the number of people 'observes' that Gerry Adams is an actual murderer.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go back and find the post were I said...'If McElduff was explicitly targetting the Kingsmill victims' then he needed to go and he and SF needed to apologise. I even said a person doing something like that deliberately should face a prison sentence'.

I remember when SF sacked him, you were terribly upset and called out the 'Whingers and moaners' who got him the boot. Very upset you were....

Now bull****ting away to your previous posts on the matter.

Yeah_Right

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is exactly the problem with Irish politics - ye’re all so obsessed with means that you’re entirely ignoring ideology and intended ends. What defines a left or right wing party is not how they behave, it’s what they believe in. Sinn Fein believes in the state guaranteeing a quality of life for its citizens, therefore they are economically a left wing party. Fine Gael believe in allowing the free market to dictate the quality of life for citizens - come what may - and therefore they are economically a right wing party. Their structure, means, etc are entirely irrelevant to defining where they sit on the economic left-right spectrum - and what seems to be so alarming to those who support right wing economics is the fact that an entire generation of young voters more or less has fundamentally turned against right wing economics to the extent that they are willing to overlook a party’s past crimes and allegations of an undemocratic structure because, ultimately, as long as they get their left wing economic policies and an and to stagflation, they simply don’t care who is introducing those policies.

That’s what’s really happening here. Establishment supporters are freaking out because they’re being forced to concentrate on policy and ideology alone. They bring up the personalities and behaviors of politicians only to discover that the people they’re debating with don’t care. This is a marked departure from how Irish politics has generally operated before this decade and those who are used to playing by those rules have no idea how to operate in the new paradigm they and their politicians have created.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: we now have a generation of young people who would vote for a serial killing paedophile dropout over a straight A student with a PhD if the latter supported neoliberal economics and the former believes in government intervention to stop the stagflation that’s been going on. And none of you seem to have grasped this yet. To this generation, policy is the only thing that matters - policy here, now, today. That’s it. Someone who seems to genuinely want to address the growing gulf between average income and the cost of living will get a vote over someone who wants to let the market dictate peoples’ lives. It doesn’t matter who those people are. A left wing Josef Fritzl would get a vote over a right wing Florence Nightingale if this cohort of voters were given that option.

I don’t want to keep linking to the same news stories over and over again but the financial times article I’ve linked before which analysed this year’s general election summed it up perfectly - he cost of housing has soared by more than 40% in three years while the average income has risen by, IIRC, 14%. In that paradigm, it shouldn’t be hard to understand why so many voters care about this and only this when deciding who to vote for!

Going by what you have written here, this young generation of SF voters have no morals. They don't care about anyone but themselves. As long as a party gives them what they want, that party could line up everyone else and have them shot. Maybe they will start with capitalists, then journalists. Who would be next?

I guess that explains why they would vote for SF. After all SF thought murder and terrorism was a legitimate means to an end. Is that the next step? Free houses or bombs go off! Random shootings until healthcare improves!

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

depicts somebody who has issues.

Classic!

Tell me Dr. Francie Brady, what issues does he have, per say. I can take it that with your vast vast knowledge and experience of psychological matters you can make an assessment on the matter?

Should politicians be more sensitive about this stuff...yes in my opinion...SF included.

Classic!

Yet, you launched a stern and vaunted defence of the actions of Barry McElduff and his Kingsmill bread antics which culminated in you posting almost 1000 times in that very thread.

hatrickpatrick

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Going by what you have written here, this young generation of SF voters have no morals. They don't care about anyone but themselves. As long as a party gives them what they want, that party could line up everyone else and have them shot. Maybe they will start with capitalists, then journalists. Who would be next?

I guess that explains why they would vote for SF. After all SF thought murder and terrorism was a legitimate means to an end. Is that the next step? Free houses or bombs go off! Random shootings until healthcare improves!

While the hyperbole here is palpable, I think you're oddly close to getting it, actually. Revolutions happen when people are pushed too far. The manner in which Irish youth have been thrown under the bus by the establishment over the course of this decade has created a dangerous powder keg, and the kind of "we want someone to stop the crushing of us, we don't care who it is as long as they do it" mentality I've described is the result of that.

Glenn Greenwald summed it up beautifully in the context of Trump and Brexit, and again I know I'm repeating myself here but this quote is in my view central to understanding what's really going on:

One of the things that is bothering me and bothered me about the Brexit debate, and is bothering me a huge about the Trump debate, is that there is zero elite reckoning with their own responsibility in creating the situation that led to both Brexit and Trump and then the broader collapse of elite authority. The reason why Brexit resonated and Trump resonated isn’t that people are too stupid to understand the arguments. The reason they resonated is that people have been so f*cked by the prevailing order in such deep and fundamental and enduring ways that they can't imagine that anything is worse than preservation of the status quo. You have this huge portion of the populace in both the U.K. and the U.S. that is so angry and so helpless that they view exploding things without any idea of what the resulting debris is going to be to be preferable to having things continue, and the people they view as having done this to them to continue in power. That is a really serious and dangerous and not completely invalid perception that a lot of people who spend their days scorning Trump and his supporters or Brexit played a great deal in creating.

You can call that immoral if you like, I call it natural. When people are pushed to the point of desperation, lashing out in this manner is the inevitable result. Even if you believe it to be immoral or selfish, what you're still refusing to accept is that it's the establishment's OWN FAULT that this is happening. They chose to pursue policies which benefitted the property investor class over the young for the past twenty years. They chose to tell young people to go f*ck themselves when those young people objected to seeing their quality of life obliterated. They even chose to go on a classic "the voters are just too stupid to understand how our policies which have ruined their lives are actually good for them" ranting rampage in the immediate aftermath of the election.

Maybe next time, they could choose to pursue policies which will reverse the destruction of that demographic's quality of life, or else stop f*cking b!tching about the basic fact of democracy which is that voters will not vote for politicians whose ideology intentionally hurts those voters?

Yes, those voters prioritise reversing the decline in their quality of life which FG's "recovery" has brought them over every other political issue. How atrociously horrible of them.

markodaly

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Sinn Fein believes in the state guaranteeing a quality of life for its citizens, therefore they are economically a left wing party.

If that was the actual case, I would have some respect for them, but they are not. The SD's may be like that, maybe Labour, even the Greens, but SF are nothing more than a reactionary populist rabble, whole will float like the wind.

Fine Gael believe in allowing the free market to dictate the quality of life for citizens - come what may - and therefore they are economically a right wing party.

Come what may? Even though they have spent records amount of taxpayers money on Health, education and housing in budget 2019... nevermind the €30 Billion more of a deficit we have to plug by years end, most of it being used to prop up welfare and small businesses?

People make out that FG are this ultra-right-wing party, who cut and cut and cut to the bone but they are not. If you look at the facts, the spending, the increased amount going into various departments, over the last few years it's astonishing really, that people think they are like that.

But I guess when you have others like PBP or SF who are never ever satisfied with government spending, then FG is this right-wing party, but this is Ireland, where perception rules reality.

markodaly

It seems SF TD's have a hard time with the truth, but I guess if they live in an echo chamber of social media with their mates, then I suppose Fake News can distort their reality.

Bless them.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pac-chair-accused-of-basic-error-on-dail-rent-cost-claims-39440088.html

Sinn Féin TD Brian Stanley, who was recently appointed as the chair of the Dáil watchdog, said it is "farcical" that the Convention Centre is charging the State five-figure daily rent after it received €24.1m last year through a public-private partnership with the Government.

However, the Oireachtas confirmed the Government was paying no rent to the Convention Centre for use of the facility during the Covid-19 pandemic.

A spokesperson said any costs incurred related to staffing the venue and broadcasting Dáil sittings.

Fianna Fáil TD for Kildare North James Lawless said the new PAC chair has been caught out on "basic facts in his first claim" in his position.

"Deputy Stanley put out a press release criticising the rent of the Convention Centre for Dáil sittings of €25k daily, either in ignorance or deliberate denial of the fact that the Convention Centre was given rent-free to the Oireachtas," Mr Lawless said.

Christ, this wasn't even a Tweet, or some Boards.ie post, but an actual press release, which contained abject falsehoods, in order to score some points?

The boys in West Belfast will be summing you for a talking Mr. Stanley, not that you were wrong in your attempt, but the fact you got caught out.

JohnnyFlash

A whale only gets harpooned when it comes up to blow.

Truthvader

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This is exactly the problem with Irish politics - ye’re all so obsessed with means that you’re entirely ignoring ideology and intended ends. What defines a left or right wing party is not how they behave, it’s what they believe in. Sinn Fein believes in the state guaranteeing a quality of life for its citizens, therefore they are economically a left wing party. Fine Gael believe in allowing the free market to dictate the quality of life for citizens - come what may - and therefore they are economically a right wing party. Their structure, means, etc are entirely irrelevant to defining where they sit on the economic left-right spectrum - and what seems to be so alarming to those who support right wing economics is the fact that an entire generation of young voters more or less has fundamentally turned against right wing economics to the extent that they are willing to overlook a party’s past crimes and allegations of an undemocratic structure because, ultimately, as long as they get their left wing economic policies and an and to stagflation, they simply don’t care who is introducing those policies.

That’s what’s really happening here. Establishment supporters are freaking out because they’re being forced to concentrate on policy and ideology alone. They bring up the personalities and behaviors of politicians only to discover that the people they’re debating with don’t care. This is a marked departure from how Irish politics has generally operated before this decade and those who are used to playing by those rules have no idea how to operate in the new paradigm they and their politicians have created.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: we now have a generation of young people who would vote for a serial killing paedophile dropout over a straight A student with a PhD if the latter supported neoliberal economics and the former believes in government intervention to stop the stagflation that’s been going on. And none of you seem to have grasped this yet. To this generation, policy is the only thing that matters - policy here, now, today. That’s it. Someone who seems to genuinely want to address the growing gulf between average income and the cost of living will get a vote over someone who wants to let the market dictate peoples’ lives. It doesn’t matter who those people are. A left wing Josef Fritzl would get a vote over a right wing Florence Nightingale if this cohort of voters were given that option.

I don’t want to keep linking to the same news stories over and over again but the financial times article I’ve linked before which analysed this year’s general election summed it up perfectly - he cost of housing has soared by more than 40% in three years while the average income has risen by, IIRC, 14%. In that paradigm, it shouldn’t be hard to understand why so many voters care about this and only this when deciding who to vote for!

Not sure this is correct. There is no right wing party in Ireland. FF and FG are outdoing one another in left wing redistribution of wealth and are struggling with housing and health which are now seen as "rights" A right wing government would merely supply some infrastructure and a courts system - after that you would be on your own to get your own house and pay your own medical bills. All of Europe is pretty much left wing at the moment. The only limiting factor is that FF/FG have some vague realisation that someone has to pay for it all.

Sinn Fein are more of an old style fascist party awash with populist slogans and promises of whatever you want forever unconnected to any reality. Certainly with no idea that anyone would pay for anything over and above "the rich"

If we had a right wing government the rest of us wouldn't be paying for the houses most of their members live in for kick off.

Poor_old_gill

markodaly wrote: »

It seems SF TD's have a hard time with the truth, but I guess if they live in an echo chamber of social media with their mates, then I suppose Fake News can distort their reality.

Bless them.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/pac-chair-accused-of-basic-error-on-dail-rent-cost-claims-39440088.html


Christ, this wasn't even a Tweet, or some Boards.ie post, but an actual press release, which contained abject falsehoods, in order to score some points?

The boys in West Belfast will be summing you for a talking Mr. Stanley, not that you were wrong in your attempt, but the fact you got caught out.

Counting is for fancy people who lack empathy

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Classic!

Tell me Dr. Francie Brady, what issues does he have, per say. I can take it that with your vast vast knowledge and experience of psychological matters you can make an assessment on the matter?

Well...he isn't a 'phycopath for buying shoes' as somebody breathlessly claimed was said.

Classic!

Yet, you launched a stern and vaunted defence of the actions of Barry McElduff and his Kingsmill bread antics which culminated in you posting almost 1000 times in that very thread.

I didn't believe based on looking at McElduff's previous behaviour (I didn't even know who he was until the incident) that I could see that he suddenly decided to very publicly attack the victims of Kingsmill.

I still believe that. And make no apologies for it. IF, he was deliberately targeting Kingsmill victims, my contention always was that he had to go and never darken the door of politics again...I even went so far as to suggest a prison term.

I can do no more than present back-up for what I post. I have done it with Varadkar and McElduff. You have made stuff up and lied to argue your defensive position. (Claims that somebody called him a 'physcopath for buying shoes' are lies markodaly and that is dishonest.)

Superfoods

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't believe based on looking at McElduff's previous behaviour (I didn't even know who he was until the incident) that I could see that he suddenly decided to very publicly attack the victims of Kingsmill.

I still believe that. And make no apologies for it. IF, he was deliberately targeting Kingsmill victims, my contention always was that he had to go and never darken the door of politics again...I even went so far as to suggest a prison term.

I can do no more than present back-up for what I post. I have done it with Varadkar and McElduff. You have made stuff up and lied to argue your defensive position. (Claims that somebody called him a 'physcopath for buying shoes' are lies markodaly and that is dishonest.)

I think your telling a few fibbs Francie. First you say you live on the border and deny any knowledge that the PIRA is still in action. You must be the only person in the border area that is not aware of the PIRA. Sure even some of the recent elected Sinn Fein TD's have a murky history in regards to that.

Now you are saying a TD didn't realise exactly what he was doing with the Kingsmill? are you trying to say it was the only loaf of bread in the shop? or that it was just pure luck he happened to do it on the exact date of the anniversary?

Based on your posting you are very invested in Sinn Fein but don't blatantly lie. None of these parties are whiter than whiter.

Will you be telling us next that Pauline Tully playing songs out of a van in Cavan was dubbed over? even Pauline couldn't keep a straight face telling that porkie.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well...he isn't a 'phycopath for buying shoes' as somebody breathlessly claimed was said.

What are his 'issues' as you see them Dr. Brady?

I didn't believe based on looking at McElduff's previous behaviour

Do you create some sort of physiological profile for everyone in the public eye Francie?

FrancieBrady

Superfoods wrote: »

I think your telling a few fibbs Francie. First you say you live on the border and deny any knowledge that the PIRA is still in action. You must be the only person in the border area that is not aware of the PIRA. Sure even some of the recent elected Sinn Fein TD's have a murky history in regards to that.

I live right smack on the border and if I thought the IRA was still active SF would not have gotten my vote in the last election...simple as that. I never supported the IRA during the conflict/war much less support them after the GFA was signed up to.

Now you are saying a TD didn't realise exactly what he was doing with the Kingsmill? are you trying to say it was the only loaf of bread in the shop? or that it was just pure luck he happened to do it on the exact date of the anniversary?

There was quite a long discussion on that on the thread in question. Where I come from if you were to go into the north to shop and picked up a loaf of bread to make a quick joke, the likelihood it would be a Kingsmill product would be extremely high given it is a popular product in areas of the north.

Based on your posting you are very invested in Sinn Fein but don't blatantly lie. None of these parties are whiter than whiter.

Will you be telling us next that Pauline Tully playing songs out of a van in Cavan was dubbed over? even Pauline couldn't keep a straight face telling that porkie.

I have never contended that SF are whiter than white, NEVER.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

What are his 'issues' as you see them Dr. Brady?

Long ago pointed out what me and many others see as his issues.

He lacks empathy, is insensitive and cold.

Do you create some sort of physiological profile for everyone in the public eye Francie?

Why would I be keeping 'physiological' profiles of people? Are you sure you understand the various terms mark?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He lacks empathy, is insensitive and cold.

And you know this, because he bought a pair of shoes?

Why would I be keeping 'physiological' profiles of people? Are you sure you understand the various terms mark?

It is the way you come across, you write as if you have intimate knowledge of who these people really are when all you are is just another guy on boards.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

And you know this, because he bought a pair of shoes?

Gosh, you are going for this line of defence too like JH39.

No, mark, it is based on countless incidents where he has come across as being cold and insensitive leading to feeling that he lacks empathy.

It is the way you come across, you write as if you have intimate knowledge of who these people really are when all you are is just another guy on boards.

So when you comment on McElduff...you have 'intimate knowledge' of his state of mind at the time? Or intimate knowledge of his biological make up if you are still talking about 'physiological' stuff.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Gosh, you are going for this line of defence too like JH39.

No, mark, it is based on countless incidents where he has come across as being cold and insensitive leading to feeling that he lacks empathy.

So its just his Twitter account so.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So when you comment on McElduff...you have 'intimate knowledge' of his state of mind at the time? Or intimate knowledge of his biological make up if you are still talking about 'physiological' stuff.

I dont claim neither, I dont pretend to be a Dr. of any sort who can infer peoples issues by a Tweet.

Superfoods

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I live right smack on the border and if I thought the IRA was still active SF would not have gotten my vote in the last election...simple as that. I never supported the IRA during the conflict/war much less support them after the GFA was signed up to.

Your asleep at the wheel mate

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There was quite a long discussion on that on the thread in question. Where I come from if you were to go into the north to shop and picked up a loaf of bread to make a quick joke, the likelihood it would be a Kingsmill product would be extremely high given it is a popular product in areas of the north.

Bulls**t, but we will move on if already another thread

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have never contended that SF are whiter than white, NEVER.

You are spending a lot of time arguing with everyone on here for just a new Sinn Fein supporter. Even the most hardened supporters in my area wouldn't stick up for them as much as you are. They are "lifers" as well

jm08

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Going by what you have written here, this young generation of SF voters have no morals. They don't care about anyone but themselves. As long as a party gives them what they want, that party could line up everyone else and have them shot. Maybe they will start with capitalists, then journalists. Who would be next?

I guess that explains why they would vote for SF. After all SF thought murder and terrorism was a legitimate means to an end. Is that the next step? Free houses or bombs go off! Random shootings until healthcare improves!

Yeah, right. Young people/Sinn Fein voters are morally corrupt because they want to be able to own their own home or at least expect to be able to afford to rent somewhere to live where they won't be expecting an eviction notice so that their accommodation can be sold off to some vulture fund.


We don't know whether Sinn Fein have all the right answers to health and housing, we do know at this stage that FFG don't.

FrancieBrady

Superfoods wrote: »

Your asleep at the wheel mate

Well do enlighten us, what evidence do you have to show us that the IRA are still operating.

You are spending a lot of time arguing with everyone on here for just a new Sinn Fein supporter. Even the most hardened supporters in my area wouldn't stick up for them as much as you are. They are "lifers" as well

Not arguing, giving my opinion like everyone else.

jm08

Truthvader wrote: »

100% absolute falsity and nonsense.

The situation in Northern Ireland consumed domestic politics from 1969 onwards. Apart from mistakes such as the "arms trial" effort to add more guns to the situation every administration put huge effort into finding and implementing any solution that would distract Gerry Adams and the crew from their dedication to murder and savagery as a solution or would persuade the unionist majority either to consider a united Ireland or some kind of power sharing arrangement. The united Ireland solution was put back 100 years by the campaign of murder while the "power sharing" has largely failed as the two sides are not enthusiastic to share anything. At least the murder campaign seems to be over.

What the Sinn Fein cheer leaders probably mean is that FF/FG did not support the Sinn Fein/IRA blood and death "solution" in some kind of military adventure. This of course worked out so well for the Argentinians in 1982

John Hume was fairly scathing about the south over the years and their lack of effort to help nationalists in NI. They were abandoned for the first 50 years. He was the one that drove the peace and he was the one who devised how to do it (by getting the US politicians involved).


I'd recommend you watching that video of Hume in America which is now on the RTE player at the moment.


https://www.rte.ie/player/movie/john-hume-in-america-s1-e1/78385704430



A memomorable comment from Fr Denis Faul after the Warrington Bombing which is critical of the south about not caring about catholic children being burnt in their beds.

'The woman leading the peace moves in Dublin is very sincere and deserves the height of praise. The sympathy for the Warrington parents is very good and warming and I share it. But this could all have an adverse effect. The politics of the last atrocity is a very bad basis for a peace movement. Next week there could be Catholic children burnt in their beds in Belfast . . . Will there be flowers for them? There have been so many children killed here, wtih plastic bullets and so on, and nobody in Dublin sent flowers. You must have parity of protest, parity of sympathy, parity of compassion. We could have done with some of that sympathy. You can't have a partial peace movement.' Fr Denis Faul, Tyrone priest and IRA critic.

'It will not make much difference in Northern Ireland, I don't think. In a sense the outrage at the children being killed only reminds us here of the number of our children that have been killed, with no outrage in England for them.
'I know it sounds hardhearted, but we have had more outrages than people can remember or even count . . . We have a surfeit of killing - you either topple over with emotion or you block out. Generally we block it out . . . What's happening in Dublin is the distancing of southern Ireland from Northern Ireland . . . They almost view all of us in Northern Ireland now as savages, uncivilised. They don't react to deaths here now. They feel that England doesn't deserve it - but in a sense they feel that we deserve it.'

- Senior Catholic community worker in Northern Ireland.

A few more here to that atrocity. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/the-angry-south-the-weary-north-irish-people-voice-their-feelings-on-the-horrors-of-the-iras-1500451.html

'The Provos I meet are deeply embarrassed by Warrington, they clearly wish it hadn't happened and they don't want to talk about it.
'In the south there has been a growing feeling that they wish the north would float off into the North Sea and sink. It's a mixture of feelings: partly guilt, that this is being done in their name; a fear that it might spread to the south; a general wish to be rid of the thing.

'They more and more resent the part the north plays in the politics of Ireland. They want to concentrate on the economic issues, and the north seems more and more of a foreign problem, extraneous to them.'
Catholic schoolteacher, West Belfast.

None of those nationalists from NI sounded like they felt the south was doing a lot for them and their situation.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/the-angry-south-the-weary-north-irish-people-voice-their-feelings-on-the-horrors-of-the-iras-1500451.html

hatrickpatrick

Truthvader wrote: »

Not sure this is correct. There is no right wing party in Ireland. FF and FG are outdoing one another in left wing redistribution of wealth and are struggling with housing and health which are now seen as "rights" A right wing government would merely supply some infrastructure and a courts system - after that you would be on your own to get your own house and pay your own medical bills. All of Europe is pretty much left wing at the moment. The only limiting factor is that FF/FG have some vague realisation that someone has to pay for it all.

Sinn Fein are more of an old style fascist party awash with populist slogans and promises of whatever you want forever unconnected to any reality. Certainly with no idea that anyone would pay for anything over and above "the rich"

If we had a right wing government the rest of us wouldn't be paying for the houses most of their members live in for kick off.

Neoliberalism - a blind adherence to market economics and a prioritisation of macroeconomics over individual quality of life, is at the very least a centre-right policy. Selling public land to developers to "regenerate" social housing estates by cutting the number of subsidised rental units in half, allowing developers to massively lower the standard of rental accommodation by legalising co-living hovels which are now having planning permission applied for all over the place, putting public money directly into the hands of private landlords through schemes like HAP instead of funding the construction of cost rentals, blocking plans for meaningful rent controls, allowing foreign corporations to bulk-buy Irish housing with the sole intention of price gouging, and other cost of living inflating policies such as slashing the state subvention to public transport causing fares to soar over the course of the decade - all of these are right wing economic policies which have caused peoples' aspirations and quality of life to massively decline between the beginning and the end of this decade.

To put it simply, FG's obsession with macroeconomic market figures in gauging how Ireland is doing has fuelled a "recovery" which, in a sentence, can be summed up by "everything has become massively more expensive, but peoples' earnings haven't increased by anywhere near as much during the same period".

Once again I'll link to this FT article:

https://www.ft.com/content/26a7a74e-4d8a-11ea-95a0-43d18ec715f5

According to an exit poll published on Saturday, some 63 per cent of voters said they did not feel they had benefited from an improvement in the economy.

The housing shortage is a particular concern, especially among the under-35s. A recent study by the Central Bank of Ireland showed that only one new dwelling was built for every seven additional people in the population between 2011 and 2019. Rents have increased by 40 per cent in the past five years, while average earnings have grown by just 14 per cent.

Sinn Féin is promising a big increase in public housing, a rent freeze and interventions in the banking system to cap mortgage rates, policies that have sent bank and property stocks down since the election amid anxiety about a leftward turn in Irish economic policy.

The cost of living rising by 26% more than average incomes for people who rent their home is something which simply would not happen with a government which believed it had a direct role in shaping the economy rather than the hands off "let the individual chips fall where they may provided there are more chips on the table overall" approach of FG's obsession with macroeconomic indicators at the near total expense of individual life experiences. That is a direct consequence of adopting an economically right wing approach - the idea that the government doesn't have a role in influencing the economy to ensure individual quality of life. That's something both FF and FG support, ideology-wise. That's what SF's newfound voters are sick of.