Is it just me or have SF vanished?

jm08

SafeSurfer wrote: »

When archives are compiled, such as the Boston Tapes and they reveal Adams role in the IRA you dismiss them as unreliable.

Yet the person who compiled them, Ed Moloney, believes that Gerry Adams should have got the Nobel Peace Prize and not John Hume.

blackwhite

To be fair - I can’t imagine that anyone who spends every waking moment that have defending both SF and the IRA for anything and everything would ever have needed to fear the local IRA heavies. They’d be treated like royalty by them

blackwhite

jm08 wrote: »

Yet the person who compiled them, Ed Moloney, believes that Gerry Adams should have got the Nobel Peace Prize and not John Hume.

Surprised it took more than a week for the acolytes to resume attacking Humes legacy of peace :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

blackwhite wrote: »

To be fair - I can’t imagine that anyone who spends every waking moment that have defending both SF and the IRA for anything and everything would ever have needed to fear the local IRA heavies. They’d be treated like royalty by them

Have you a list of these communities 'living in fear' blackwhite?...the other poster claiming they existed all over the north has taken a break.

I managed quite fine during the conflict/war being opposed to the IRA campaign in a small border town.

As I say, I know of not one punishment beating or kneecapping carried out by these all powerful 'overlords' of the IRA. They are as mythical around here as the beardy old men plotting the overthrow of the state from the Antrim hills tbh.

jm08

blackwhite wrote: »

Surprised it took more than a week for the acolytes to resume attacking Humes legacy of peace :rolleyes:

I think Moloney always held that belief.


Anyway, you missed the point of the post.

FrancieBrady

blackwhite wrote: »

Surprised it took more than a week for the acolytes to resume attacking Humes legacy of peace :rolleyes:

Hume's legacy was one of failure until the Hume-Adams initiative which was actually the legacy of Fr Alex Reid if truth be told.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/ni-peace-process-began-with-question-from-fr-alec-reid-to-gerry-adams-1.3110454

markodaly

Bonniedog wrote: »

The 1916 - 21 revolution failed in securing a 32 county Republic, but it did succeed in securing political independence for the 26 counties.

The IRA campaign of 1970 - 1998 achieved none of the IRA's objectives. And at the cost of many lives of people on all sides including the hunger strikers of the 1970s and 1981.

Carpet bagging shinners shouting "Up the Ra" after a few pints is embarrassing to be honest; the "Ra" having abjectly surrendered.

This. So this!

History is actually going to be very bad for the PIRA, VERY bad! There will be no statues of Adams or Storey. No streets named after them. No primary schools taking the names of Provo traitors.

Why? Because they achieved **** all. Their goals of the late 1960's/early 1970's are public and well known and they achieved the sum of nothing of them...

They murdered and bombed with wanton abandon.
They targetted civilians, women and children.
They engaged in sectarian murderers, of working-class people, earning their crust of bread, like in Kingsmill.
They murdered the old, they murdered the young, all in the name of 'the cause'.

For what? A glorified talking shop in Stormont which even the most staunch Shinner will admit, has no 'real' power?
They are still ruled effectively by Westminster.
The British Army is armed and still stationed in NI.

As a famous quote said.
"...the Unionists have won. They're too stupid to see it, and the Republicans are too clever to admit it."

Compare and contrast to the 1920's IRA who actually had a popular mandate, and used it to create a new state.

The PIRA never achieved that. In fact, the PIRA and their ilk are traitors, who until recently didn't even recognise the Dail, as the legitimate sovereign parliament of the Republic. They too didn't recognise the Irish Army, or the Gardai and murdered both in the name of their cause.

The PIRA will be like those old confederates in Southern USA. Some yokel's will love them, but the majority of people will see them for what they are. Traitors who fought against their country and lost.

markodaly

jm08 wrote: »

In fairness, Niall O'Dowd who wrote that article in Irish Central isn't holding back in his criticism of them. And what adds more weight to what he says is that he is the brother of a Fine Gael TD, so not a closet Shinner.

SS - what age are you - are you old enough to remember the 1966 commemorations?

Niall O'Dowd has long and strong links going back to SF for years.

He was an intermediary between the US government and Gerry Adams for ages, which included getting him a Visa.

So strong were his links to SF, Niall O'Dowd approached SF with a view of running for President in 2011 with the support of Adams and SF!!

So, he is far from a 'neutral' party in this, in fact he comes across as a bit of a lacky.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Too many spy film watchers about.
A few guys decided to get rich and turned traitor...happens in every army in the world.

Oh, the PIRA are a real 'army' now? Not just a terrorist outfit?

Tell me, what army plants bombs in an English market town on a Saturday afternoon and kills 3-year-old toddler and a 12-year-old boy?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Oh, the PIRA are a real 'army' now? Not just a terrorist outfit?

Tell me, what army plants bombs in an English market town on a Saturday afternoon and kills 3-year-old toddler and a 12-year-old boy?

Same kind of one that would allegedly do it in Dublin and the market town of Monaghan?

Armies...spreading terror to achieve the aims of their masters since time began mark.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Same kind of one that would allegedly do it in Dublin and the market town of Monaghan?

Armies...spreading terror to achieve the aims of their masters since time began mark.

The UVF are also an 'army'?
Hillarious!

Who were the masters of the PIRA Francie? The People of NI?

Superfoods

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Same kind of one that would allegedly do it in Dublin and the market town of Monaghan?

Armies...spreading terror to achieve the aims of their masters since time began mark.

First the PIRA was your friendly local with no "overlords" Now they are an army with masters. So which is it Francie?

The fact you mention living on the border in nearly ever posts tells its own story.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have you a list of these communities 'living in fear' blackwhite?...the other poster claiming they existed all over the north has taken a break.

I managed quite fine during the conflict/war being opposed to the IRA campaign in a small border town.

As I say, I know of not one punishment beating or kneecapping carried out by these all powerful 'overlords' of the IRA. They are as mythical around here as the beardy old men plotting the overthrow of the state from the Antrim hills tbh.

Or I have a life......

I 100% agree you never knew of one punishment or kneecapping, maybe for a different reason to you.

jm08

markodaly wrote: »

Niall O'Dowd has long and strong links going back to SF for years.

He was an intermediary between the US government and Gerry Adams for ages, which included getting him a Visa.

So strong were his links to SF, Niall O'Dowd approached SF with a view of running for President in 2011 with the support of Adams and SF!!

So, he is far from a 'neutral' party in this, in fact he comes across as a bit of a lacky.

Neil O'Dowd is the voice of Irish America. If he is anyone's lacky, its their one.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/irish-america-is-hostile-to-the-exclusion-of-sinn-f%C3%A9in-from-government-1.4191688

In early June 2011, O'Dowd announced he was considering becoming a candidate in the 2011 Irish Presidential election, calling himself "an Irish Diaspora voice."[14] According to Walter Ellis, writing in the Irish Times, O'Dowd's goal was

...to call on the power of the Irish diaspora and bring it to bear on the country’s crippled economy. He would rally the world’s wealthiest Irish people and encourage them to invest in Ireland, North and South.[15]

O'Dowd approached Sinn Féin and possibly other Irish parties seeking support. Sinn Féin, though then party president Gerry Adams, stated in mid-June that they had been "lobbied by all the independent candidates" including O'Dowd.[16]

By 27 June, The Irish Echo declared the "Irish presidential field [is] starting to look crowded", citing a comment from O'Dowd saying "The reality is you have to fish where the fish are and the only votes for me are with Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin."[17]

On the same day, Gerry Adams announced Sinn Féin would "will make no decision on whether to back Irish-American publisher Niall O’Dowd or any other independent candidate for the presidency until it decides next month whether to run its own candidate."[16]

On 30 June, O'Dowd stated he would not be running for the office. O'Dowd stated his reasons involved "The logistical challenges of running for an office as an independent against established political parties is incredible."[18][19]

Walter Ellis, writing in The Irish Times remarked that, despite many impressive qualifications, "O'Dowd would not get my vote," calling him "too much of an Irish-American for the Áras."[15]

So in your view, any Independent who approached Sinn Fein for support is a SF lacky?

jm08

Superfoods wrote: »

First the PIRA was your friendly local with no "overlords" Now they are an army with masters. So which is it Francie?

The British Army assessment of the PIRA:


"PIRA developed into what will probably be seen as one of the most effective terrorist organisations in history. Professional, dedicated, highly skilled and resilient, it conducted a sustained and lethal campaign in Northern Ireland, mainland United Kingdom and on the continent of Europe," the document states.''


In comparison to other groups:



They said that the loyalists "presented themselves as the protectors of the Protestant community but in practice were often little more than a collection of gangsters, a description which could also apply to a number of republican terrorists".


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/british-army-paper-illustrates-respect-for-ira-1.948685

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

The UVF are also an 'army'?
Hillarious!

Who were the masters of the PIRA Francie? The People of NI?

No, I don't think the UVF ever called themselves an army. Maybe they did.

Why do people get so upset at the use of a fairly simple word 'army'?

The IRA were a fairly well drilled (read independent opinion on this) and regimented organisation with a clearly defned ranking system of officers.
Their 'masters' being the highest ranking officers.

It's pretty simple stuff.

FrancieBrady

Superfoods wrote: »

First the PIRA was your friendly local with no "overlords" Now they are an army with masters. So which is it Francie?

The fact you mention living on the border in nearly ever posts tells its own story.

Again, why can you not deal with what was actually said?

I grew up in fairly close contact to the Irish army and the British army...who had masters.
They didn't have 'overlords' either.

Or I have a life......

I 100% agree you never knew of one punishment or kneecapping, maybe for a different reason to you.

So communities all over northern Ireland and along the border (including mine apparently) lived in fear of IRA overlord's but you cannot name any?

Speaks for itself as a lazy trope.

I remember talking to an American tourist here in my town (she was a student journalist believe it or not) she nearly fainted when I suggested we go across the border one evening to an event in Newtownbutler...she had been led to believe from what she had been reading that bullets would be almost whizzing past her ear in open warfare.

Superfoods

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, why can you not deal with what was actually said?

I grew up in fairly close contact to the Irish army and the British army...who had masters.
They didn't have 'overlords' either.





So communities all over northern Ireland and along the border (including mine apparently) lived in fear of IRA overlord's but you cannot name any?

Speaks for itself as a lazy trope.

I remember talking to an American tourist here in my town (she was a student journalist believe it or not) she nearly fainted when I suggested we go across the border one evening to an event in Newtownbutler...she had been led to believe from what she had been reading that bullets would be almost whizzing past her ear in open warfare.

If I had a euro for the amount of time I heard someone who met an American who thought Northern Ireland was a full on war zone. So no I don't believe it.

I never said I couldn't name any communities.

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, why can you not deal with what was actually said?

I grew up in fairly close contact to the Irish army and the British army...who had masters.
They didn't have 'overlords' either.

That's not to say you weren't aware you were in a sensitive area, so you minded your p's and q's.










So communities all over northern Ireland and along the border (including mine apparently) lived in fear of IRA overlord's but you cannot name any?

Speaks for itself as a lazy trope.

I remember talking to an American tourist here in my town (she was a student journalist believe it or not) she nearly fainted when I suggested we go across the border one evening to an event in Newtownbutler...she had been led to believe from what she had been reading that bullets would be almost whizzing past her ear in open warfare.

In my youth I made many trips across, Lisnaskea, Newtownbutler, Derrylin, Enniskillen.
Great towns for trade and things were cheaper there them times.
Attended a few functions around there and Keady as I have relatives in Keady.
I never once came across trouble or had any hassle except as I said earlier hassle from the British soldiers and NI security forces.
There genuinely wasn't a sense of fear there, but there were of course places and venues you wouldn't go to.
A sense of carefulness, but not fear.
My cousin is married in Keady, has lived there for over 30 years now and raised her family, their lives could only be described as normal lives.

dundalkfc10

Superfoods wrote: »

If I had a euro for the amount of time I heard someone who met an American who thought Northern Ireland was a full on war zone. So no I don't believe it.

I never said I couldn't name any communities.

I lived in a border town and we would regularly go to Newry. People in these communities were more scared of RUC/BA than the IRA

Superfoods

Anyway the thread is about Sinn Fein. Not about talk stories from a specific poster.

So as I posted ages ago before, have Sinn Fein shown anything since the Government was formed to raise them up from their current standing? or done more damage to themselves

FrancieBrady

Superfoods wrote: »

I never said I couldn't name any communities.

...and you didn't name any.

JohnnyFlash

I see one of their MEPs abstained on a vote condemning China’s draconian new security laws for Hong Kong. What’s that about?

Some dude called Chris MacManus.

nigeldaniel

Yip, I noticed the SF sneaky regard for commy China and the suppressant of democracy. The irony is there not the Sf and its cohorts will ever admit to it.
I bet Sf would do the same in Ireland if they had half the chance.

joeguevara

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I lived in a border town and we would regularly go to Newry. People in these communities were more scared of RUC/BA than the IRA

I remember driving through strabane regularly as a kid as my father was from NW Donegal. Absolutely scared sh1tless on that bridge with the BA stops.

FrancieBrady

nigeldaniel wrote: »

Yip, I noticed the SF sneaky regard for commy China and the suppressant of democracy. The irony is there not the Sf and its cohorts will ever admit to it.
I bet Sf would do the same in Ireland if they had half the chance.

Come on man...you know the drill...show us what you have 'noticed'.

Please don't do a 'I know of many communities living in fear of IRA overlord's' and when asked to name more than one or two run off and try to change the subject'.

If YOU noticed it, you should be able to link to this 'sneaky regard'.

Chris McManus has explained why he abstained, it has to do with not wanting to align with former colonial powers taking the high moral ground.
Wouldn't make me abstain but it is a valid reason that is not an endorsement of China.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

I remember driving through strabane regularly as a kid as my father was from NW Donegal. Absolutely scared sh1tless on that bridge with the BA stops.

I walked through that checkpoint so many times hitching home from Letterkenny. A particularly intimidating one as was the Aughnacloy one on the other side. Especially after Aidan McAnespie was shot from the turret. The feeling that somebody was training a rifle sight on your back was hard to shirk.

jm08

I used to go up the North a bit during the Troubles to Belfast and walking in the Mourne Mountains. We were all scared ****less going through those BA checkpoints. One of the most terrifying things happened on the road out to Newcastle when in the middle of no where we were stopped by the UDR. I thought we were gonners, but they were ok.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I walked through that checkpoint so many times hitching home from Letterkenny. A particularly intimidating one as was the Aughnacloy one on the other side. Especially after Aidan McAnespie was shot from the turret. The feeling that somebody was training a rifle sight on your back was hard to shirk.

Driving through Aughnacloy still,I breathe a sigh of relief as I leave it.

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, why can you not deal with what was actually said?

I grew up in fairly close contact to the Irish army and the British army...who had masters.
They didn't have 'overlords' either.





So communities all over northern Ireland and along the border (including mine apparently) lived in fear of IRA overlord's but you cannot name any?

Speaks for itself as a lazy trope.

I remember talking to an American tourist here in my town (she was a student journalist believe it or not) she nearly fainted when I suggested we go across the border one evening to an event in Newtownbutler...she had been led to believe from what she had been reading that bullets would be almost whizzing past her ear in open warfare.

We had and have a special criminal court precisely because citizens were and are in fear of illegal organisations Like the IRA, Limerick drug gangs, Kinahan cartel. If there was no fear there would be no need for the court. The IRA intimated witnesses, look at the Jerry Mc Cabe case for one.
In my experience it is the same in communities on the border. If you witnessed an assault on the street after a nightclub and learned the attacker was from a local ra family you would keep your mouth shut.
Why? Out of respect? No, out of fear.

When “a volunteers” funeral cortège passed through the town local businesses were “requested” to close their premises by some friendly local “activists”. Of course they always did. Again not out of respect but out of fear.

Like anything else one gets used to fear and it becomes so normal as to be hardly noticed but the fear, like in communities in areas in Dublin and Limerick, is there none the less.



If you dismiss the idea that families and communities in Northern Ireland lived in fear I would recommend the award winning documentary

“A Mother Brings Her Som To Be Shot”

The title is pretty self explanatory.

I would also recommend reading professor Liam Kennedy’s report

“They Shoot Children Don’t They”.

Which catalogues more than 500 children shot or beaten by paramilitaries, including the IRA, many of them coordinated through the offices of Sinn Fein, during the troubles.

Professor Kennedy stated

“Northern Ireland was "a blackspot for the abuse of children in a form that had no parallel elsewhere in western Europe"

I think it is fair to say that there were communities in Northern Ireland living in fear during the troubles and to this day.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

We had and have a special criminal court precisely because citizens were and are in fear of illegal organisations Like the IRA, Limerick drug gangs, Kinahan cartel. If there was no fear there would be no need for the court. The IRA intimated witnesses, look at the Jerry Mc Cabe case for one.
In my experience it is the same in communities on the border. If you witnessed an assault on the street after a nightclub and learned the attacker was from a local ra family you would keep your mouth shut.
Why? Out of respect? No, out of fear.

When “a volunteers” funeral cortège passed through the town local businesses were “requested” to close their premises by some friendly local “activists”. Of course they always did. Again not out of respect but out of fear.

Like anything else one gets used to fear and it becomes so normal as to be hardly noticed but the fear, like in communities in areas in Dublin and Limerick, is there none the less.



If you dismiss the idea that families and communities in Northern Ireland lived in fear I would recommend the award winning documentary

“A Mother Brings Her Som To Be Shot”

The title is pretty self explanatory.

I would also recommend reading professor Liam Kennedy’s report

“They Shoot Children Don’t They”.

Which catalogues more than 500 children shot or beaten by paramilitaries, including the IRA, many of them coordinated through the offices of Sinn Fein, during the troubles.

Professor Kennedy stated

“Northern Ireland was "a blackspot for the abuse of children in a form that had no parallel elsewhere in western Europe"

I think it is fair to say that there were communities in Northern Ireland living in fear during the troubles and to this day.

Intimidation of witnesses happens everywhere and is not unique to NI or border areas.

It is targeted and specific.

I'm sorry but that doesn't fulfil the requirement of proof for tropes like 'communities living in fear of an overlord'

Again loads of elasticity with the reality of a given situation...in my town and I would hazard a guess it was the same in most small towns, all businesses would close at a funeral cortege passed...regardless of creed or status.


I and others have never claimed there was 'no fear', of course there was fear.
What I am contesting is that there were widespread communities living in fear of IRA overlords. There wasn't and there is certainly next to none now.

If you locked horns with the British, Loyalists or the IRA, yes you could and would pay the price if you crossed them.

But the reality is as pointed out by people here that lived through it and who still live in these communities that people got on with life.

Again...your and others inability to name 'these communities living in fear' is striking and telling. Tropes are important to those who wish to tout an agenda.

Not unlike the fantastic theories about Adam's nefariousness is the preposterous idea that these communities 'living in fear' are going into the secrecy of the ballot box electing the very people accused of intimidating them to public office, over and over again. Bizarre again.