Is it just me or have SF vanished?

SafeSurfer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely unbelievable debating.

Here is what you were originally stating:





When you were unable to name a community 'living in fear of IRA overlords' you pivot to pretending you were talking about 'fear' in general.

That says it all.

You have said you do not read Irish history books. However maybe you could consult a dictionary, look up the words “community” and “overlord” and get back to me.

FrancieBrady

SafeSurfer wrote: »

You have said you do not read Irish history books. However maybe you could consult a dictionary, look up the words “community” and “overlord” and get back to me.

Waste of time debating with somebody who when they cannot provide an answer, resorts to plain old fashioned dishonesty and pretends we were talking about something else.

P.S. You may want to read again what I said about books.

maccored

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Waste of time debating

totally agree.

joeguevara

I understand that people don't differentiate SF and the IRA but there is literally no discussion on SF anymore except for shoe tweets and the white privilege debacle.

What are peoples opinions on how they are performing as opposition?

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

What are peoples opinions on how they are performing as opposition?

What is the metric?
How do you assess the effectiveness of an opposition?

Considering the chaotic start to the new arrangements I think they have done their job of calling attention to what the government are doing.

According to Fionnan Sheahan The Green Minister did not want to address the issue of the Fáilte chief holidaying in Italy until pressure was brought to bear. That is the 'opposition doing their job' inmo.

https://twitter.com/fionnansheahan/status/1294704776882651138

joeguevara

I have no idea what the metric should be but I think it's more beneficial to discuss it than the IRA history (which is important) as it always comes to a stalemate at best and vitriol at worst.

I only found out about the failte Ireland thing a few days ago. It really was a crazy thing to do but it could be argued that the private life of someone is their decision. Was he sacked or did he resign?

Have SF made a public comment on the eviction that is in the headlines?

Have they rowed in on masks and which side are they on with regards to alcohol only bars and their we don't want sympathy campaign?

MOR316

To answer the question, it was just the OP. Sein Fein have not vanished

joeguevara

MOR316 wrote: »

To answer the question, it was just the OP. Sein Fein have not vanished

I think posters no my stance on SF and indeed all parties. I'm of the opinion that to a large extent and probably through no fault of their own they have all vanished /definitely hampered.

For me the eviction story has brought to light how important issues have completely taken a back seat. It has left a vacuum which is being disparately filled by groups with an agenda. The amount of division is increasing. Was reading a Facebook page on homelessness and half of it was anti garda sentiment. The mods were trying their best to remove racist posts but they were considerable too.

Hamsterchops

MOR316 wrote: »

To answer the question, it was just the OP. Sein Fein have not vanished

Course they haven't, they were out in force only a few weeks ago at the massive IRA funeral up North.....

Unfortunately they show no sign of vanishing.

MOR316

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Course they haven't, they were out in force only a few weeks ago at the massive IRA funeral up North.....

Michelle O'Nell, Big Shelly, first off the bus leading the charge into the cemetery

RandomViewer

Honestly think you'd be safer walking up the Shankill road draped in a Tricolour than walking around Blanchardstown with twenty Euro in you pocket ,but hey FG Don't want to hinder free enterprise in the sink estates, Hit someone on the head and run away you are a thug. Hit someone on the head and take their money you are an entrepreneur ,

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is the metric?
How do you assess the effectiveness of an opposition?

Considering the chaotic start to the new arrangements I think they have done their job of calling attention to what the government are doing.

According to Fionnan Sheahan The Green Minister did not want to address the issue of the Fáilte chief holidaying in Italy until pressure was brought to bear. That is the 'opposition doing their job' inmo.

https://twitter.com/fionnansheahan/status/1294704776882651138

When you have to rely on Fionnan Sheahan you have lost the argument

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

When you have to rely on Fionnan Sheahan you have lost the argument

Why is that? He certainly isn't 'Shinner'. And I am not 'relying' on him, SF certainly did call for the Failte chief to step down before she said anything.

blanch152

Truthvader wrote: »

Do we have to play the "which IRA was it" game?

A person who would murder or maim other people at random in pursuit of any perceived injustice or entitlement is sub human in my view regardless of what group they claim to belong to or when they did it.

As to the difference between the dissidents and anyone else; I see none, bar one group having got what they wanted and/or deciding to settle after a 30 year sick criminal campaign (which they still glorify and celebrate) while the other groups are continuing to murder and maim people because they have not got what they wanted.

When they did it does matter. A prehistoric caveman killing for food is far different to an IRA terrorist blowing up children for some cause, and the cultural context is far different.

The society of the early twentieth century was far different to the society of the late twentieth century. A tribal war or rebellion was one thing before the Nazis showed us the depths to which humanity could sink. By the 1970s there was no excuse for the type of thing that the IRA indulged in, killing for brutality and effect.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

When they did it does matter. A prehistoric caveman killing for food is far different to an IRA terrorist blowing up children for some cause, and the cultural context is far different.

The society of the early twentieth century was far different to the society of the late twentieth century. A tribal war or rebellion was one thing before the Nazis showed us the depths to which humanity could sink. By the 1970s there was no excuse for the type of thing that the IRA indulged in, killing for brutality and effect.

The Nazis did nothing other colonial powers had been doing. It didn't take them to show us how low humanity could sink. Indeed we had a taste of it ourselves long before the Nazis appeared.

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Nazis did nothing other colonial powers had been doing. It didn't take them to show us how low humanity could sink. Indeed we had a taste of it ourselves long before the Nazis appeared.

God almighty, have you lost the plot completely?

Talk about quote of the century ...

"The Nazis did nothing other colonial powers had been doing"

Honestly Francie, think before you post!

Does the murder of Six Million Jews come to mind? We all fought against the Nazis either physically or metaphorically...apart from the IRA that is.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

God almighty, have you lost the plot completely?

Talk about quote of the century ...

"The Nazis did nothing other colonial powers had been doing"

Honestly Francie, think before you post!

Does the murder of Six Million Jews come to mind? We all caught against the Nazis either physically or metaphocally...apart from the IRA that is.

Quantity is the tipping point for you?

What does it matter? Colonial powers had been indiscriminately wiping out 100's of thousands before them using the same methods.

We had discovered the depths 'humanity could sink' to long before the Nazis.

Hamsterchops

Hamsterchops wrote: »

God almighty, have you lost the plot completely?

Talk about quote of the century ...

"The Nazis did nothing other colonial powers had been doing"

Honestly Francie, think before you post!

Does the murder of Six Million Jews come to mind? We all fought against the Nazis either physically or metaphorically...apart from the IRA that is.

Hardly any different that holocost by hunger here,the brits carried out


How many died in the british engineered bengali famines?

Hamsterchops

So you guys are equating the Nazis with the British, the French, the Portuguese, the Dutch, the Spanish, the Americans? Honestly?

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So you guys are equating the Nazis with the British, the French, the Portuguese, the Dutch, the Spanish, the Americans? Honestly?

By methods, yes. All those mentioned showed depravity in human terms in spades. And at various times their suprematist and oppressive agendas matched one another.
That the Nazis were more successful numerically is immaterial to the point...'the depths that humans can sink to'.

Hamsterchops

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So you guys are equating the Nazis with the British, the French, the Portuguese, the Dutch, the Spanish, the Americans? Honestly?

Did the nazis create genocide here??,sure they only used the brits tactics....they invented concentration camps in the boer war era

Truthvader

blanch152 wrote: »

When they did it does matter. A prehistoric caveman killing for food is far different to an IRA terrorist blowing up children for some cause, and the cultural context is far different.

The society of the early twentieth century was far different to the society of the late twentieth century. A tribal war or rebellion was one thing before the Nazis showed us the depths to which humanity could sink. By the 1970s there was no excuse for the type of thing that the IRA indulged in, killing for brutality and effect.

Random murder and savagery is and was never OK

joeguevara

Firstly the British committed terrible atrocities to Irish people and is disrespectful to our dead to ignore that. But the IRA never said that the reason for their armed conflict was the famine. To compare the British to the Nazis in a SF thread is bizarre. Even more bizarre is to bring in Bengali famine or other colonial atrocities. The IRA started their modern armed conflict because of occupation and the discrimination and treatment of Catholics by the organs of state. To bring in the famine or Nazis is a straw man argument as by that thinking, even if there was a complete withdrawal in the 60s, the IRA or any other splinter group would still have wanted retribution for 800 years. But why stop there,would they have done the same to Scandinavia for the vikings actions.

On the other side, just because irish people were not locked up in concentration camps and gassed doesn’t mean there wasn’t a systemic genocide through mandated actions.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

Firstly the British committed terrible atrocities to Irish people and is disrespectful to our dead to ignore that. But the IRA never said that the reason for their armed conflict was the famine. To compare the British to the Nazis in a SF thread is bizarre. Even more bizarre is to bring in Bengali famine or other colonial atrocities. The IRA started their modern armed conflict because of occupation and the discrimination and treatment of Catholics by the organs of state. To bring in the famine or Nazis is a straw man argument as by that thinking, even if there was a complete withdrawal in the 60s, the IRA or any other splinter group would still have wanted retribution for 800 years. But why stop there,would they have done the same to Scandinavia for the vikings actions.

On the other side, just because irish people were not locked up in concentration camps and gassed doesn’t mean there wasn’t a systemic genocide through mandated actions.

Comparing methods of oppression and dehumanisation is relevant.

SafeSurfer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did the nazis create genocide here??,sure they only used the brits tactics....they invented concentration camps in the boer war era

Concentration camps were invented by a Kerry man.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Comparing methods of oppression and dehumanisation is relevant.

It is important but irrelevant in a thread about Sinn Fein if they say that the IRA are non existent. As the actions discussed are not happening now, of course should be recognised and form part of societal transformation, how does it help? If the purpose of the good Friday agreement is the ballot box towards reunification, what benefit is it comparing the Brits to Nazis. If that is really true, why be in stormont with them. Why engage in political discussions with them. It honestly looks like people are saying that the old way is better.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

It is important but irrelevant in a thread about Sinn Fein if they say that the IRA are non existent. As the actions discussed are not happening now, of course should be recognised and form part of societal transformation, how does it help? If the purpose of the good Friday agreement is the ballot box towards reunification, what benefit is it comparing the Brits to Nazis. If that is really true, why be in stormont with them. Why engage in political discussions with them. It honestly looks like people are saying that the old way is better.

Maybe take that up with the poster who stated that it was the Nazi's that 'showed us the depths to which humanity could sink'.
The world was shown long before that how low humanity could sink...simple fact.

blackwhite

SF’s group (which Mick Wallace and Clare Daly are part of also) refusing to endorse an EU Parliament cross-party declaration to call for free and fair elections in Belarus).

I guess we can add Lukashenko to the list of dictators that SF appear to be fans of.


https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1295408747582566402?s=21

joeguevara

What I’m trying to say (probably badly) is SF supporters can’t have it both ways. They were the political wing of a paramilitary organisation. As a political party, although the IRA actions can be vilified in plenty instances, the GFA drew a line under the past. But on the other hand, reprehensible actions by the British should not be forgotten and perpetrators brought to justice, it can’t be a stick to beat them with. For every person who raises the famine, someone else can say enniskillen. Who wins then? Hopefully that makes sense.

Just to be clear, the famine was one of the worst genocides in human history and has had a deep effect on the Irish people. I’ve read articles that genetic studies have shown that has caused a disposition in our dna for poor mental health, higher obesity and heart disease and maternal starvation. Fcucking crazy,

joeguevara

blackwhite wrote: »

SF’s group (which Mick Wallace and Clare Daly are part of also) refusing to endorse an EU Parliament cross-party declaration to call for free and fair elections in Belarus).

I guess we can add Lukashenko to the list of dictators that SF appear to be fans of.


https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/1295408747582566402?s=21

Before jumping to any conclusion based on a tweet, it is always better to see the reasons why anyone is not in support. Not doing A does not mean that they support B. Usually in cases like this it is because the original vote did not go far enough.