Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Truthvader

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

You're so, so, so close to getting it, but you're so blinded by your right wing ideology that it's not getting over the line.

A booming macroeconomy is bad for young people whose jobs have not experienced wage inflation during the "recovery" in the second half of the 2010s. It means that they're still getting paid the same amount roughly speaking, whereas the cost of living for that demographic has skyrocketed. I keep quoting the FT ad nauseum, but a 14% increase in average wages compared with a 40% increase in average rents represents a dramatic plunge in quality of life at a time when politicians and leaders are preaching about how great everything is compared with a few years back. If your career has turned into the "gig economy" type of career which so many young peoples' have over this decade, then a 40% increase in your rent since 2011 compared with a 14% increase in your wages is a backwards step.

That's why the arguments about how SF's policies will impact the macro economy are rolling off young people like water on a duck's back. The macro economy has become totally disconnected from the reality of quality of life, as more often than not, macroeconomic factors "improving" simply means that everything gets more and more expensive. If your take-home pay is not increasing during that time, then ultimately all this talk of "recovery" is a gigantic "f*ck you" from those in power.

That's why "keep the recovery going" was such a failure as an election slogan in 2016. That's why "a future to look forward to" was even more of a failure in 2020.

The dramatic increase in the cost of housing has meant that to those who weren't already on the ownership ladder when the "recovery" began, life has been getting sh!ttier and sh!ttier for the last five years, with particular acceleration occurring between 2018 and 2020. And the laissez-faire "let them eat cake" approach of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail is making this worse.

Using terms like "entitlement" and "perceived personal advantage" are just showing your complete lack of empathy once again. Someone who could afford to move out and start their own independent life in the early 2010s being forced to move home with their parents again because the government has entirely turned the housing sector over to the greedy c*nts that are the investor class has experienced real, demonstrable, devastating reversal in their quality of life and in their prospects for the future.

It is not the public who are to blame for rejecting a government policy which hurts them, FFS, it's the government which pursued harmful policies without regard to the harm and pain they were causing. That's what FG supporters don't seem to get. That's why all the arguments the government tried to make in the run up to the election didn't work on young people - not when you had Eoghan Murphy allowing quality of life to slide further and further into the abyss while telling young people "this is the future, get used to it".

No. We won't. And that will be reflected at the ballot box - simple as that.

OK this is actually useful and I get the point. What would you like the government actually to do? It seems to me that a booming macro economy necessarily drives up property prices because everyone has more money. The solution cannot be to damage the macro economy as the result of that is Detroit, where housing is dirt cheap but everything else is ****.

Plus whatever the solution is Sinn Fein of all parties are not going to provide it. Perhaps I may be right wing but I dont see PBP and their like providing a solution. Could it be that the housing "build" program that should kick in (supply and demand) necessarily lags behind the economic success. With covid 19 we could well end up with plenty of houses yet as the economy collapses, people stop paying rent and mortgages etc

hatrickpatrick

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I think I get what you are saying about the younger generation voting for SF. It was a single issue vote. Housing was the issue. I can understand why someone might vote on a single issue but I think its narrow minded and stupid. Like the Americans that vote purely on abortion or gun rights. It leads to parties saying what they think is popular but not actually having any sensible policies. Like SF.

It's not just housing though. The housing issue encompasses a far bigger issue, which is a form of stagflation - the cost of living generally going up while wages stagnate, particularly for young people who missed out largely on the era of secure, unionised, formal work arrangements in favour of, as I mentioned, the gig economy, zero hours contracts and client-worker relationships. Housing is the most obvious issue to choose, but the entire economic ladder has been pulled up and away from this generation by people who are insufferably smug and condescendingly "ivory tower" about it, going on and on about avocado toast, boutique hotels and other such bullsh!t while being part of the generation which is directly contributing to that stagflation by buying excess property to use as an investment and then charging as much as "the market" allows them to get away with, without any sense of social responsibility.

The vote for SF was about voting for a party which doesn't think that this is ok. It was about voting for a party whose attitude wasn't "touch sh!t, we got ours". Like it or not, that's how both FF and FG are perceived among young people - not caring about the inflation vs wage issue because they are not affected by it.

Truthvader

jm08 wrote: »

I would be described as a floating voter who has voted for all party candidates over the years (but will never again give a FF candidate a vote) and in the last election, I gave my first every vote to the Sinn Fein candidate (it was 2nd preference vote) for the following reasons.


1. Performance of Mary Lou. I think she was excellent when on public accounts committee and she is well able to take Leo down a peg or two which can be often required.
2. FF/FG policy on housing. It is just is not working. I think a radical approach is required, and I think Eoin O Broin's actually knows something about it.
3. FF/FG will never stand up to vested interests (like Property developers, banks, insurance etc). Pearse Doherty was excellent on exposing what was going on in the insurance industry.
4. Health. Poor management and over spending on Children's Hospital Cervical Smear Scandal. Someone needs to take the vested interests on in the HSE.


Fine Gael were in for long enough, as far as I'm concerned, FF are just not trustworthy anymore and I am glad that Sinn Fein are in a good positition now to be an effective opposition because we haven't had that for the last couple of years really.

Accept most of these failings but it is absolutely beyond me how anyone thinks that Mary Lou's years of grating whinging provides a solution to anything. The other pair (Pearse and Eoin) are simply not intellectually equipped to provide anything to anyone save foolish policies and policies.

That is all irrelevant to me however and if people voted for Boyd Barrett and Ruth Coppinger I would expect a similar economic disaster but at least they are not fronting for sinister criminals already responsible for unforgiveable misery. Who could go to the Guards in confidence if Sinn Fein were in charge. Already their own members know not to say anything until Gerry decides whether it is OK or not. Dont think Sinn Fein will bring housing but they will bring the complete corruption of civil society

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Accept most of these failings but it is absolutely beyond me how anyone thinks that Mary Lou's years of grating whinging provides a solution to anything. The other pair (Pearse and Eoin) are simply not intellectually equipped to provide anything to anyone save foolish policies and policies.

That is all irrelevant to me however and if people voted for Boyd Barrett and Ruth Coppinger I would expect a similar economic disaster but at least they are not fronting for sinister criminals already responsible for unforgiveable misery. Who could go to the Guards in confidence if Sinn Fein were in charge. Already their own members know not to say anything until Gerry decides whether it is OK or not. Dont think Sinn Fein will bring housing but they will bring the complete corruption of civil society

How could anyone go to the Gardai in confidence when just a day or two ago one of them ran to the media with a story designed to politically damage a party? And it's not the first time they have leaked info for political effect.

What age were you when the policies of FF, cheerled by the policies of FG brought this country to the brink of wipeout?

Truthvader

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's not just housing though. The housing issue encompasses a far bigger issue, which is a form of stagflation - the cost of living generally going up while wages stagnate, particularly for young people who missed out largely on the era of secure, unionised, formal work arrangements in favour of, as I mentioned, the gig economy, zero hours contracts and client-worker relationships. Housing is the most obvious issue to choose, but the entire economic ladder has been pulled up and away from this generation by people who are insufferably smug and condescendingly "ivory tower" about it, going on and on about avocado toast, boutique hotels and other such bullsh!t while being part of the generation which is directly contributing to that stagflation by buying excess property to use as an investment and then charging as much as "the market" allows them to get away with, without any sense of social responsibility.

The vote for SF was about voting for a party which doesn't think that this is ok. It was about voting for a party whose attitude wasn't "touch sh!t, we got ours". Like it or not, that's how both FF and FG are perceived among young people - not caring about the inflation vs wage issue because they are not affected by it.

v
The cote for Sinn Fein will not adress any of these issues any more than a vote for Trump improved a single thing for America. Sinn Fein are a neo Fascist party run by criminals and lightweights wheeling out meaningless populist drivel for those to young to realise what they are or too criminalised to care.

Plus not sure that the housing argument is being overdone? People die every day and houses are continuing to be built. So who is buying them. Not Landlords who have fled the market since payment of rent became voluntary. It can only be new generations

christy c

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's not just housing though. The housing issue encompasses a far bigger issue, which is a form of stagflation - the cost of living generally going up while wages stagnate, particularly for young people who missed out largely on the era of secure, unionised, formal work arrangements in favour of, as I mentioned, the gig economy, zero hours contracts and client-worker relationships. Housing is the most obvious issue to choose, but the entire economic ladder has been pulled up and away from this generation by people who are insufferably smug and condescendingly "ivory tower" about it, going on and on about avocado toast, boutique hotels and other such bullsh!t while being part of the generation which is directly contributing to that stagflation by buying excess property to use as an investment and then charging as much as "the market" allows them to get away with, without any sense of social responsibility.

The vote for SF was about voting for a party which doesn't think that this is ok. It was about voting for a party whose attitude wasn't "touch sh!t, we got ours". Like it or not, that's how both FF and FG are perceived among young people - not caring about the inflation vs wage issue because they are not affected by it.

All that ignores the reality that the policies proposed by SF are not workable. People like Pearse Doherty and Paul Murphy can point to their electoral success and stand in the Dail roaring about fairness, but unless there is a plan to achieve that fairness then it is a waste of time.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How could anyone go to the Gardai in confidence when just a day or two ago one of them ran to the media with a story designed to politically damage a party? And it's not the first time they have leaked info for political effect.

What age were you when the policies of FF, cheerled by the policies of FG brought this country to the brink of wipeout?

Ah the Guards. You just cant rely on them to cover up for Sinn Fein. Non criminals are well confident to go to the Guards ( save where they are intimidated to the extent that they have to ask scum like Gerry Adams for permission

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Ah the Guards. You just cant rely on them to cover up for Sinn Fein. Non criminals are well confident to go to the Guards ( save where they are intimidated to the extent that they have to ask scum like Gerry Adams for permission

The Gardai have undermined more than SF politically with leaks. We won't go into other areas where they have been found wanting.

Yeah_Right

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's not just housing though. The housing issue encompasses a far bigger issue, which is a form of stagflation - the cost of living generally going up while wages stagnate, particularly for young people who missed out largely on the era of secure, unionised, formal work arrangements in favour of, as I mentioned, the gig economy, zero hours contracts and client-worker relationships. Housing is the most obvious issue to choose, but the entire economic ladder has been pulled up and away from this generation by people who are insufferably smug and condescendingly "ivory tower" about it, going on and on about avocado toast, boutique hotels and other such bullsh!t while being part of the generation which is directly contributing to that stagflation by buying excess property to use as an investment and then charging as much as "the market" allows them to get away with, without any sense of social responsibility.

The vote for SF was about voting for a party which doesn't think that this is ok. It was about voting for a party whose attitude wasn't "touch sh!t, we got ours". Like it or not, that's how both FF and FG are perceived among young people - not caring about the inflation vs wage issue because they are not affected by it.

Are zero hour contracts allowed in Ireland? Honest question because I didn't think they were.

I get that the cost of living is tough for low paid workers. The problem is that everyone gets paid more, everything costs more and so on and so on. I've been there. As a student and then a young professional getting paid peanuts and having to live off it. Budgeting and living pay-check to pay-check. Its not something new. Then as the career progresses the earnings increase and you move out of that cycle.

You will never convince me that owning a rental property is a bad or evil thing. I would have always said it was a good investment. Use the rent to clear the mortgage and then get another. Keep going like that and build a nice little nest egg. But you have to maintain the property, pay tax and deal with difficult tenants. It takes work. I would never do it in Ireland because the laws favour the tenants too much and landlords get screwed. If I was to buy an investment property here, I would only rent it out for short term stays. Obviously not an option at the moment with Covid.

jm08

Truthvader wrote: »

v
The cote for Sinn Fein will not adress any of these issues any more than a vote for Trump improved a single thing for America. Sinn Fein are a neo Fascist party run by criminals and lightweights wheeling out meaningless populist drivel for those to young to realise what they are or too criminalised to care.

Plus not sure that the housing argument is being overdone? People die every day and houses are continuing to be built. So who is buying them. Not Landlords who have fled the market since payment of rent became voluntary. It can only be new generations

Houses are not being built. Commerical properties are being incentivised. Why would any builder build houses when there is more money in building hotels and communal accommodation. There is a new housing development of about 40 houses beside where I live (used to be a factory). They are costing between 800K and 900K each. What normal family can afford those?

maccored

Truthvader wrote: »

Sinn Fein are a neo Fascist party run by criminals and lightweights wheeling out meaningless populist drivel for those to young to realise what they are or too criminalised to care.

this above is precisely why its a waste of time debating anything SF or north related. especially since the poster uses the words 'neo facist'. one minute sf are communists, the next they are the opposite

"neofascism advocated extreme nationalism, opposed liberal individualism, attacked Marxist and other left-wing ideologies, indulged in racist and xenophobic scapegoating, and promoted populist right-wing economic programs."

Thats sounds more like FFG to me

Truthvader

jm08 wrote: »

Houses are not being built. Commerical properties are being incentivised. Why would any builder build houses when there is more money in building hotels and communal accommodation. There is a new housing development of about 40 houses beside where I live (used to be a factory). They are costing between 800K and 900K each. What normal family can afford those?

If no-one can afford them no-one will buy them and prices will fall until someone can afford them. Maybe Ireland is a rich enough society that they will be sold out - or maybe the local authority will buy one and give it to Violet Ann or some other needy and deserving case

Truthvader

maccored wrote: »

this above is precisely why its a waste of time debating anything SF or north related. especially since the poster uses the words 'neo facist'. one minute sf are communists, the next they are the opposite

"neofascism advocated extreme nationalism, opposed liberal individualism, attacked Marxist and other left-wing ideologies, indulged in racist and xenophobic scapegoating, and promoted populist right-wing economic programs."

Thats sounds more like FFG to me

Nope 100% Sinn Fein - though you forgot to mention the thug murder your way to power element

Yeah_Right

jm08 wrote: »

Houses are not being built. Commerical properties are being incentivised. Why would any builder build houses when there is more money in building hotels and communal accommodation. There is a new housing development of about 40 houses beside where I live (used to be a factory). They are costing between 800K and 900K each. What normal family can afford those?

The bit in bold is rubbish. A few thousand houses have been built out in Swords in the last few years and more are being built. And they are starting at less than 300K. Available and affordable. But not free so I guess SF voters won't be interested.

jm08

Yeah_Right wrote: »

The bit in bold is rubbish. A few thousand houses have been built out in Swords in the last few years and more are being built. And they are starting at less than 300K. Available and affordable. But not free so I guess SF voters won't be interested.

A few 2 bed houses at 297K. 3-4 bed are 400-500K.


There is no such thing as a free house. What people are voting for is affordable housing in Dublin which is the area that is really affected.

jm08

Truthvader wrote: »

If no-one can afford them no-one will buy them and prices will fall until someone can afford them. Maybe Ireland is a rich enough society that they will be sold out - or maybe the local authority will buy one and give it to Violet Ann or some other needy and deserving case

That seems to be the FF/FG policy. The local authorities spend tax payers money inflating property developers bank accounts.

maccored

Truthvader wrote: »

Nope 100% Sinn Fein - though you forgot to mention the thug murder your way to power element

please do point out where SF have been murdering?

Actually - **** that. Its a waste of time asking you to back anything up because you talk rubbish, then move on to talking more rubbish. Its because of the like of yourself that I cant be arsed with these threads. Too much waffle, not enough fact for my liking

Truthvader

maccored wrote: »

please do point out where SF have been murdering?

Actually - **** that. Its a waste of time asking you to back anything up because you talk rubbish, then move on to talking more rubbish. Its because of the like of yourself that I cant be arsed with these threads. Too much waffle, not enough fact for my liking

More like too much fact. Anyway bye bye

SafeSurfer

maccored wrote: »

please do point out where SF have been murdering?

Actually - **** that. Its a waste of time asking you to back anything up because you talk rubbish, then move on to talking more rubbish. Its because of the like of yourself that I cant be arsed with these threads. Too much waffle, not enough fact for my liking

The previous poster was correct.

It was Sinn Fein policy to take power in Ireland by force.

This was the “Armalite and Ballot Box Strategy”

“Who here really believes we can win the war through the ballot box? But will anyone here object if, with a ballot paper in this hand and an Armalite in the other, we take power in Ireland?”

Danny Morrison. IRA member and Sinn Fein director of publicity. He had been jailed for conspiracy to murder an IRA British intelligence agent. His conviction was later overturned because other British agents within the IRA were also involved in the conspiracy to murder the first IRA informer.

Edgware

jm08 wrote: »

That seems to be the FF/FG policy. The local authorities spend tax payers money inflating property developers bank accounts.

Why bring ex hunger striker Tom McFeely in to it?

jm08

Edgware wrote: »

Why bring ex hunger striker Tom McFeely in to it?

I don't know why you are bringing him into it. Is he a member of Sinn Fein? Has Sinn Fein defended him over Priory Hall or is this just you slinging mud hoping some will stick?


What are you saying here?

blanch152

Nauseating hypocrisy on show from Sinn Fein again today.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0821/1160454-calleary-reaction/


"Sinn Féin's David Cullinane has said Mr Hogan should resign as EU Commissioner.

Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Sarah McInerney, the Waterford TD said Mr Hogan breached guidelines, adding he is "a very, very experienced politician and should have known what the guidelines were."

Deputy Cullinane said the episode "smacks of arrogance" and shows there is "confusion, chaos and dysfunction at the heart of the Government".

Where was he when Michelle O'Neill, Conor Murphy, Mary-Lou et al all broke the lockdown rules and attended Bobby Storey's funeral.

As is normal, the one rule for Sinn Fein, one rule for others continues within the state within a state.



P.S. I am on record stating that Jerry Buttimer and Dara Calleary were right to resign, this is about Sinn Fein hypocrisy.

blanch152

jm08 wrote: »

I don't know why you are bringing him into it. Is he a member of Sinn Fein? Has Sinn Fein defended him over Priory Hall or is this just you slinging mud hoping some will stick?


What are you saying here?

I think he falls into the good republican category rather than the Sinn Fein member category.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

I think he falls into the good republican category rather than the Sinn Fein member category.

So has nothing to do with Sinn Fein then? Is he a dissident republican?

blanch152

jm08 wrote: »

So has nothing to do with Sinn Fein then? Is he a dissident republican?

You could call it the Friends of Gerry Adams category too if you want.

LawBoy2018

What does it mean for Leo to remove the whip from the FG senators?

rob316

Seems like a good tactic to vanish, this other shower are doing a monumental job in screwing up.

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

Nauseating hypocrisy on show from Sinn Fein again today.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0821/1160454-calleary-reaction/


"Sinn Féin's David Cullinane has said Mr Hogan should resign as EU Commissioner.

Speaking on RTÉ's Today with Sarah McInerney, the Waterford TD said Mr Hogan breached guidelines, adding he is "a very, very experienced politician and should have known what the guidelines were."

Deputy Cullinane said the episode "smacks of arrogance" and shows there is "confusion, chaos and dysfunction at the heart of the Government".

Where was he when Michelle O'Neill, Conor Murphy, Mary-Lou et al all broke the lockdown rules and attended Bobby Storey's funeral.

As is normal, the one rule for Sinn Fein, one rule for others continues within the state within a state.



P.S. I am on record stating that Jerry Buttimer and Dara Calleary were right to resign, this is about Sinn Fein hypocrisy.

theres no similarities at all between people attending a funeral in the north (which is a different country according to many of you) and government officials flouting their own guidelines.

Pkiernan

maccored wrote: »

theres no similarities at all between people attending a funeral in the north (which is a different country according to many of you) and government officials flouting their own guidelines.

The virus needs Gerrys permission before infecting Shinners, so they should be OK!

blanch152

maccored wrote: »

theres no similarities at all between people attending a funeral in the north (which is a different country according to many of you) and government officials flouting their own guidelines.

Oh, you are giving Mary-Lou and Pearse a pass, but if I recall correctly, weren't Michelle and Conor at the same funeral flouting their own guidelines.

Once again, the nauseating stink of Sinn Fein hypocrisy permeates these threads.